Balance for Ad Sponsored Servers

[blackrazor]

lol !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the fact is, this kind of stuff really works. Cocacola has their own cokemusic site that works in this way. Many companies co-brand with other companies, offering coupons or free stuff. Airmiles, petropoints specialize in this sort of advertising in the real world. Neopets co-brands in the virtual world, usually with McDonalds, or General Mills (breakfast cereals), if memory serves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I must admit, that I often sit back and wonder if the billions (or more) spent in advertising worldwide are really worth it, but apparently the sponsors think so, and that's good enough for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edge, you're right, it might cost the players more in absolute dollars this way. But people are funny. This way, they get tangible products to enjoy in the real world, like candy bars, soda pop, happy meals, toys, etc. And there is none of the credit card, paypal, or currency exchange hassles that exist for subscriptions. Plus many people don't trust the internet for secure financial transactions. And this way, players don't need to maintain a subscription to keep what they have. They pay (buying products) when they are able, and enjoy the game when it's convenient. No worries about subs (or money to pay for subs) running out just as you want to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look, it appeals to a different mindset, different circumstances, than the subscriptions. That's a good thing. They can both run together, without competing (or cancelling each other), since they each offer different benefits, and appeal to different sorts of players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for ad blocking ... players are less likely to block ads, if the ads contain useful information on the skill unlocks. Understand archimage_a?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ideal items that would work for Runescape co-branding are: junk food, fast food, ready made dinners, sugary cereals, movie tickets, toys, music CDs, video rentals. Basically, inexpensive consumable goods that are bought regularly with disposable income by the age demographic that enjoys Runescape. Yes people buy them anyways. But there are many companies selling this sort of stuff. These companies compete very agressively for market share, by advertising, so you are more likely to buy their junk, instead of their competitors'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyhow, I've made this as simple as I could. Please, for the love of mike, I hope you understand. If you still don't, then maybe some other kind soul will offer to explain it in different words or something.

[Tetsuya]

I completly agree with your suggestions. You have my support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its amazing how little people realize how much money banner ads can generate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you said in your other thread, I am "thick" (Which I still find funny)

 

 

 

Which is true. How do you think network television stays in business?

[blackrazor]

Thank-you for your support Tetsuya. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have another co-branding variant that Jagex could also look into. This one focuses on a partnership with appropriate super-store chains, such as Walmart or Toys 'r Us. Chains that sell music CDs (HMV, Music World), video rentals (Blockbuster), or feature movies (Cineplex Odeon, Famous Players) would also work well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of a specific product being featured, the whole store is featured. For every 10 dollars that you spend in the store, a token is printed out as part of your receipt. Not that hard to do, since cash register print heads are usually dot matrix, and quite capable of printing out unique graphic coupons on the receipt, as part of their point-of-sale program.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These coupons would be redeemable for skill or ability unlocks in a co-branding campaign for ASP. This just expands the list of potential sponsors that might be interested in participating in such campaigns with Jagex.

[archimage_a]

Ok Im behind it now the main fears were:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A)'You pick a bottle of pepsi...ahh that was good...we can thank are lucky stars that pepsi was here to save the day....and so on and so forth.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

B)There would be some sort of cut off point, at which time you would no longer be able to gain the skill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just one last point...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once the token target has been reached then jagex doesn't need to advertive the other any more, it can't be an on going thing because that would present a feedback loop in which f2p would be gaining stuff faster than p2p.

[blackrazor]

Once the token target has been reached then jagex doesn't need to advertive the other any more, it can't be an on going thing because that would present a feedback loop in which f2p would be gaining stuff faster than p2p.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ASP (nothing is free) would never gain updates faster than members. But certainly there is the potential that ASP will gain meaningful updates faster than they do now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Members get new things weekly. By comparisson, these co-branding campaigns will either last many weeks, months, or indefinately. They won't be giving ASP the best stuff either. Always, the best will be saved for members, so the appeal of premium member's services is maintained.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex goes with individual skill coupons, then you can gain a skill or ability (that is on the offered list, obviously not everything from members is available) for yourself, when you redeem a coupon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex goes with global buckets, then the buckets will be of sufficient size that they will take at least several weeks to fill for the entire community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One bucket does not equal a whole new skill either. These things will come in pieces, so the campaign lasts longer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Takes my whole range update thing. One bucket, once filled, would automatically start the next one filling. The buckets, once filled, would unlock, in this order:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Green dragons appear on ASP servers. They drop dragon hides, but no dragon bones. We can now craft leather coifs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Green dragonhide crafting is unlocked on ASP. We can get the hides tanned, and we can craft green vambraces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) We can now craft green legs and chests.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Fletching is unlocked on the ASP server. We can now make regular, oak, and willow bows. Flax fields appear in Draynor, or Lumby swamps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5) Arrowsmithing is unlocked on the ASP servers. We can make bronze, iron, and steel arrowheads. We can also now use fletching to make arrow shafts, and bronze, iron, and steel arrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6) We can now make mith and addy arrowheads and arrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7) We can now make yew bows, and rune arrowheads and arrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Say each bucket is planned so that it filled in about 7 weeks. That means that it would take 7 x 7, or approximately 49 weeks to fill all seven buckets for these limited range upgrades. That means almost a whole year just for inferior range, while members keeps getting its weekly updates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then even more weeks for my proposed runecrafting updates, and then we could move on to cooking, with fun but harmless stuff, like potatoes, cream, butter, etc. Maybe also brewing the beers that are already sold in the Falador Inn. All of that could easily be stretched into another 7 steps, 7 buckets, and another year of campaigns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you can see how this could play out slowly over time, never even coming close to members, yet still giving ASP fun updates, and giving Jagex revenue from commissions sales based on all those filled up buckets that represent purchased goods.

[Duke_Freedom]

Ok I read everything on first page, so excuse me if I say anything that has already been said earlier...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They need F2P for the income:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I'm aware this was already written, but I just want to point out the estimates can be done by values all found on their own site: http://www.jagex.com/corporate/index.ws)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RuneScape has about 2.8 million and about 20% of them are members (has always been around that figure: http://www.mmogchart.com/ if you want data on that).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So we have 460K members * 5$ * 12 months = 28mil income from members. From Jagex own site we can see they have 125 employees. Now we take an estimate on their salaries (from their own figures it would be much lower), say $80,000 per employee.. Which makes a total of 10mil in salary costs. Add on to that 100 servers. Again we take a high side... 100 * $5000 a month * 12 months = 6mil server costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This results in 12mil profit (before taxes and I'm sure there are several other overhead costs I forget / left out, but either way, they make huge profits - and they definately do not need F2P for that).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't know how much they earn from adds:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I don't, but, again from their own site, I do know they don't make a single $ of people who don't buy products via the adds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most Partnerships are done on a revenue sharing basis: earning significant additional revenues for the partner with no additional investment. Jagex can help monetize your audience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally really doubt the income from adds is that high and that Jagex could exist solely from add-income though... To get the same 28mil figure as they get from subscription income, every person would have to generate $10 profit per year via the adds then. I personally know none people who ever bought something via the RuneScape adds, and considering RuneScapes average player age I really don't think the percentage of people buying anything via the adds is high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P is part of their business plan, it cannot be removed:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I totally agree that it would be desastreous if they removed F2P, though my reasoning would definately be for other reasons then add-income.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, 80% of the population are F2P'ers. RuneScape would be pretty messed up if they were all removed. Not only that: P2P'ers would have to start gathering the materials they mostly let the F2P'ers get (coal, iron, etc). I'm convinced a lot of people would find the game less attractive when 80% of the players are suddenly gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, their business plan is probably the reason for their succes. Let people play on a free version as long as they want: apparently 20% ends up subscribing and according to the income figures that generates plenty of cash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P 'needs' the improvements:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure why you argue RuneScape-F2P isn't balanced the way it is now. Yes it's dependant on P2P. That's no suprise though: it has been like that for years already and it greatly explains why the hourly profits for doing something in P2P are twice ore more of doing something for an hour in F2P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That F2P is dependant on P2P doesn't mean it's broken or not balanced though... It's incomplete: yes, but Jagex wants to trick people to members somehow, don't they? Everything you need on F2P can still be bought on the market. It's not like there's a huge lack of arrows in game or some other worrying issue like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides that, anyone who has been on F2P for so long that they are asking for new things to do is clearly no possible future costumer and thus Jagex has little to no reason to satisfy this person's demands. Yes... Add-income. Like I said, I don't believe in that and besides that: add-income works differently then just "you looked at the add for 1000 hour" as I pointed out earlier in the post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, however, does not necessarily mean it's absolutely unwise of Jagex to give F2P something, but the question is: is it useful or not? I personally really doubt it will have much positive effect, but I can't see it hurt either, as long as we're not adding significant *large parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* = Therefore I do find it contraversional if you want to add a whole members skill... IMO that's untactful on Jagex side: I think the amount of extra skills members get is a very big reason why people want to become member.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P vs P2P:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhat off topic, but as we can see in the first replies of this topic (and it's definately not something new: it has been like that for ages already) there is a somewhat... Hostile relation between F2P'ers and P2P'ers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Considering the amount of "F2P DESERVES SOMETHING BECAUSE WE ARE IMPORTANT FOR JAGEX TOO" posts I have seen on these boards I can partly understand that.

 

 

 

Most F2P'ers don't ever insist on becomming P2P or buying some product via the adds anyway - so yes P2P probably does pay for a lot F2P'ers. However, despite that, rs is still the cheapest MMORPG around and P2P'ers get significant advantages, so they shouldn't complain much either. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ofcourse I know your not like all the other "F2P NEEDS AN UPDATE" people ;) (hence - you barely play rs :P) and I do agree it's not totally unreasonable that F2P get's a little something every once in a while too.[/b]

[archimage_a]

I like that defination alot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P need some updates as razor said and it would be nice to have the globe thing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as it is said of the jagex site, it waits for other companys to come to it rather than useing time and resources on tracking them down. Jagex is therefor having maxium effect with minimal effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So we like it but tou would need to ask other companys to contact jagex rather than ask jagex to conntact others

[blackrazor]

Hi Duke :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was wondering when you would post here :) I figured it was a matter of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I really suggest that you read the last 3 pages (pgs. 4, 5, 6) of the linked thread that I placed at this thread's very beginning. Here it is again:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=335006&start=45

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The discussion kind of started here for about half a page, then moved to that thread for about 3 pages. It then moved back here after that topic was closed at the originator's request.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The main point of all these pages that I want you to analyze (since I know you have a keen business mind), is the co-branding concept, in its various forms, that evolved over time, through these threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point is moot whether Jagex makes enough money. Most companies want to make more, if they can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If my co-branding idea can make Jagex some more real money from ASP, while giving them incentive to update it semi-regularly, then it's a win-win for everyone, I hope. If my idea has flaws, in your opinion, then I'd like to hear them from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not interested in philosophical debates about whether ASP should get updates. Nor do I want to hear more philosophy on whether Jagex values its ASP population under their current revenue model. Most companies don't decide things based on philosophy; they look at the bottom line. So if co-branding really turns out to be a viable way to generate revenue, then that is probably the only way that ASP will be receiving any meaningful updates (and respect) in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's ironic that I put so much energy into this, and yet I don't even play much anymore. But like I said before, people are funny. And you know me pretty well Duke, so I'm sure you've guessed by now what I'm getting out of this, what my angle is :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So please have a look at the co-branding, and let me know what you think. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. For Jagex's sake, I hope they are earning at least $5 per 1000 views on those ads. That is an industry standard, and they are entitled to that much, whether the ads sell, or not. They are shortchanging themselves if they take no money unless the product sells. Imagine if TV networks did that ... they would go bankrupt. I gave a link on banner revenue, too. It's a semi-academic site on the subject (there are many more on metacrawler):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.wilsonweb.com/cat/cat.cfm?pa ... _AdPricing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex gets its fair share on ad banners, then they are making money from ASP right now. I remember how pissed off the Gowers were when people were using third party software that ad-blocked, so I assume that they like that revenue, in spite of what selected quotes from their website might allude to. Even so, banner ads make the ASPers customers-by-proxy. The sponsors are the real customers in the ASP equation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In network television, the sponsors aggressively monitor their investment, so there is incentive for the networks to upgrade programming regularly to make viewers happy. I think that RS sponsors, Jagex, and ASPers have all grown complacent with the situation, by comparisson. So even if ASP is cash positive, nothing much will change in terms of updates, unless something dramatic happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dramatic might be a large drop in playerbase (could happen for a variety of reasons down the road), or something more positive, like the adoption of co-branding ad campaigns that generate more cash for Jagex, in return for modest (but meaningful) updates to ASP. Me, I like to think positively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

cheers,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

blackrazor

[archimage_a]

You have made your point. although no one really cares as when it comes down to it there is no real argument. It you telling us that your idea is so good. and i don't think that many of us run or will run a mmorpg so your poin is moot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone close this

[blackrazor]

You have made your point. although no one really cares as when it comes down to it there is no real argument. It you telling us that your idea is so good. and i don't think that many of us run or will run a mmorpg so your poin is moot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone close this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want this co-branding concept critiqued and analyzed by the Runescape community. It will be more useful to Jagex, if it has more depth, analysis, and community support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If all you are interested in is an argument, then you're right, you won't get one here. I suggest that you go troll some other thread, or better yet, some other board, for that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RS needs less argument, and more community cooperation.

[E_D_G_E_1039]

 

As you said in your other thread, I am "thick" (Which I still find funny)

 

 

 

Which is true. How do you think network television stays in business?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By calling me thick, I guess, seeing as you quoted my reply to say that... :roll:

[E_D_G_E_1039]

RuneScape has about 2.8 million and about 20% of them are members (has always been around that figure: http://www.mmogchart.com/ if you want data on that).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or here is data from Jagex themselves...

 

 

 

[blackrazor]

Edge ... you remind me of a dog chasing a car. If that dog should ever catch that car ... that's when it finally discovers that it can't drive. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you've caught a bunch of posted figures (the car) ... but what point are you actually trying to make with them (the driving) ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex has 300K active members, then they make 300K x 5 = 1.5 million per month gross revenue from subs alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they have 400K, then they make 2.0 million per month gross revenue from subs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

500K active members = 2.5 million gross revenue from subs ....

 

 

 

1 million active members = 5 million gross revenue from subs ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So besides a boring math lesson, what has the variations in predicted active subscribers, and the gross subscription revenue they represent, have to do with analyzing the co-branding model as a viable secondary revenue stream for the ASP servers? :?:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you said in your other thread, I am "thick" (Which I still find funny)

Which is true. How do you think network television stays in business?

By calling me think, I guess, seeing as you quoted my reply to say that... :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tetsuya was agreeing with you being called thick, and then he was asking you to think about network television ad models. Not the same thing. But maybe you were making an attempt at humour (I hope so, because the alternatives are too horrifying to consider), in which case I would recommend that you study humour before attempting it again. It's trickier to pull off than it looks.

[E_D_G_E_1039]

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you said in your other thread, I am "thick" (Which I still find funny)

Which is true. How do you think network television stays in business?

By calling me think, I guess, seeing as you quoted my reply to say that... :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tetsuya was agreeing with you being called thick, and then he was asking you to think about network television ad models. Not the same thing. But maybe you were making an attempt at humour (I hope so, because the alternatives are too horrifying to consider), in which case I would recommend that you study humour before attempting it again. It's trickier to pull off than it looks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was a mere spelling mistake... :?

[blackrazor]

Edge, I look at your edit of the original post ... and I think my statement still pretty much applies. EDIT: I looked again at your edit. Ok, I agree, it is a little funnier now. Cute play on words. But you do understand what Tetsuya really meant, yes? Ads are big business, and Jagex should take advantage of the big dollar potential, just as Television Networks do now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But please, everyone (including me, I'm also guilty):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's try to keep this on topic. Please limit discussion to analyzing co-branding as a viable secondary revenue stream for ASP, and what that could mean for updates to ASP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please read the previous pages of this topic, and this other topic starting here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=335006&start=45

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So that we don't keep going in circles with what has already been discussed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure there is lots of room to break new ground on this topic, to suggest improvements and refinements, so lets focus on that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

[Duke_Freedom]

OK I read all now (wow... I should ask payment for this :P).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sticking to my earlier opinion that the way it is now, I definately think you overvaluate the value of the add-income for Jagex and that I don't really see why ASP (as you like to call it :P) is 'suddenly' unbalanced, even though it has been unbalanced for years already. Also, I disagree with what you said somewhere during this thread that P2P is 'alienating' from ASP - P2P's base is still ASP and will always be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and one last thing.. Maple trees aren't great for wc exp. As a lvl 93 wc'er I got from 89 to 93 on willows. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex gets its fair share on ad banners, then they are making money from ASP right now. I remember how pissed off the Gowers were when people were using third party software that ad-blocked, so I assume that they like that revenue, in spite of what selected quotes from their website might allude to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I do have to agree this point sounds strong (I remember that situation on runescapecommunity) - but my counter-arguement would be... They don't put in so many "you have to be on a member world to do this" if they don't earn a lot extra for it either, don't you think? Subscription, like you answered yourself when I asked why you never became members, is a nice way of tricking people into monthly payments. Although 1 monthly payment may not be large, a subscription of 3 years can buy you 5 new 'normal' games, which is exactly the power of MMORPGs... For other mmorpg's this effect is even much bigger, because they usually charge twice or triple times what Jagex charges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But whether they do or do not make much money from add-income versus subscription-income is irrelevant for the discussion that should be going on here really. So let's not continue discussing that; onto what this discussion really is about, although it is in fact somewhat related to subscriptions and the way MMORPGs work...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Co-branding and / or other extended ways of "adds" could further enhance Jagex' add-income.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people don't want monthly obligations

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is a very good point - it's a fact that (momentarily - this will become less important in the future, when people adapt more and more to payments via the internet) a large group of people are hesistant for paying online or just plainly for subscriptions or intangible stuff in general. So what has this to do with the possible positive effects of co-branding?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With co-branding, the way blackrazor suggests it, people will be able to "buy" updates for the game while they are also buying something tangible that they can 'use'. This way, the group described in above paragraph, could be targetted after all, meaning that the co-branding may actually become a succes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I know, co-branding has not yet been tried out by any of the other (large) MMORPG's yet, so we don't really have any reference data. However some other MMORPG did do an 'extention' of the normal adds...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everquest's /pizza command - http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2 ... _stor.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, try not to laugh now... I'm serious and, although it seems the feature has been removed from the game now and although it was ridiculed by a lot of people (I wonder why :lol:) Sony did have it implemented for a while - and I don't think that was just a joke. Various analists think that ingame-adds will, sadly, be utilized more in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, back to the topic of co-branding.. It does seem like it could be worth a try IMO, to see if it would end up as a succes or not. I'm not sure which of the two forms would be the best to choose from in the end, but if it's going to be a 'test' you would definately go for the community-bucket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From a managementability / overhead view I would prefer that one too - it prevents the problems that such advertisements could be temporary, that some update needs to be done for everyone or for noone at all, etc etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However I think the co-branding will be more effective when it's not a community-thing but for individual use instead: that gives more incentive to buy the product to everyone. What I mean to say here, is that people will only participate actively in a community-update if it's hyped, and I'm not so sure you can get people hyped about such, relatively, small updates. But when people won't get anything at all it if they don't participate (buy the product), they'll be more likely to end up participating after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IF the co-branding test would be a succes, then it could surely enhance Jagex add-incomes significantly... Add on to that the fact that it could help their game grow much faster too, which in return increases their subscription-incomes; effectively doubling the usefulness of such a co-branding for Jagex. So yes, I'm quite positive about the idea! :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Going one step further: Could a mmorpg rely on such incomes alone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know the problem with add-income is that it is very related to the state of the economy. If things aren't going to well in the economy, the first thing companies are going to spend less money on is something they don't "neccesarily" need... And that's add-expendure. That being said, running an mmorpg that evolves solely around add-income seems a somewhat risky concept IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This obviously does not mean a company shouldn't try to improve it's profits by combining add-income with it's normal-business-income. ;)

[archimage_a]

Do you ever get the feeling that no matter what you say the idoit at the other end won't see your point of view?

[Duke_Freedom]

Do you ever get the feeling that no matter what you say the idoit at the other end won't see your point of view?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what your problem is when other people want to discuss something out of interest without flames..?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this debate is not really about more free stuff for free-to-play like I already tried to say. I believe blackrazor only mentions that to let the (f2p)-RuneScape community see what their advantage of this suggestion could be - though maybe it would have been a bit smarter if he didn't put the emphasis on the updates for f2p so much. :?

[blackrazor]

Thanks for your comments Duke Freedom :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of good information there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify a couple points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) I never meant to say that ASP was "suddenly" unbalanced. There has been a widening imbalance over time, that accelerated with the transition to RS3D. I define this imbalance as a gulf between what a player can do in the world (ex: range, mage), and that player's ability to choose a degree of self-sufficiency (or self-support) towards making their own equipment to accomplish those goals. As such, it was a subjective interpretation on my part, its main purpose to provide a starting point on where upgrades might be considered on ASP, for co-branding ad campaigns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The soft-logic behind such a correlation is that skills would naturally evolve, where there is a need (self-defense, conquest, exploration), met with the raw materials being readily available for trial-and-error learning and refinement of those skills. I personally find it aesthetically pleasing to see these sorts of synergies between man, his abilities, and his environment. I think it makes for solid game design, too. (Although I do understand the idea of deliberately "leaving stuff out" in order to attract players to a premium version of the game, where such balance exists. That has been the trend, and I'm looking for good reasons (co-branding) to allow financial incentive, and aesthetic game design to move together towards a new, positive direction.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) I never meant to imply that members would be "alienating" from ASP, certainly I understand and agree that ASP provides a larger community (for merchanting) and a feeder for those interested in trying out the game first, and then subscribing, once they become more excited about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, what I meant was that ASPers should be able to provide for their own needs within the context of the version of the game they play, without necessarily relying on NPCs or members for those needs. Green dragonhide armor, bows, arrows, and chaos runes were the specific examples I gave. If ASP can use these items, then ASP should also be able to make these items, as long as it makes financial sense for Jagex to make the adjustments (ex: co-branding).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) I have put equal emphasis on what co-branding can do for Jagex, and also what it can do for ASPers. I'm not worried about the odd inappropriate comments from ignorant people, more interested in causing conflict, then in making things truly better for everybody. (Yes, Archimage_a, I'm referring to people like you.) Those kinds of people will be forgotten; when they depart of this earth, it will be as if they were never here. I'm proud of the fact that I'm working on an idea that benefits the majority of the human beings who play this game, and also the fine people who have built and run it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's all try to remember that we are all humans, here on life's journey, whether we are ad-sponsored, premium members, or developers within the tiny narrow context of this specific game. Maybe if we keep that in mind, then we can maintain a certain minimum level of respect and empathy for one another, as we look for ways to better our common lot, both in the tiny narrow context of this game we share, and in the larger world, as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thank Duke Freedom for being such a respectful and empathic contributor. I may not agree with every point, but Duke Freedom has a way of adding to a thread, so that it is better after he posted, than before he arrived.

[runescapeplayer2005]

theres something called... M E M B E R S..........

[blackrazor]

theres something called... M E M B E R S..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not worried about the odd inappropriate comments from ignorant people, more interested in causing conflict, then in making things truly better for everybody. Those kinds of people will be forgotten; when they depart of this earth, it will be as if they were never here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank goodness the human race has people unlike the poster above me; people who are able to see beyond the status quo. Otherwise we would still be huddled around campfires, still hunting our food with wooden spears and crude stone implements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see it now:

 

 

 

==========

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughtful human: What about a new way to roll things around. I'll call it a ... wheel!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

runescapeplayer20050 B.C.: theres something called... M U S C L E S ......

 

 

 

*proceeds to bash "Thoughtful human" over the head with a wooden club*

[idiot911]

ezboard used to do co-branding. They got rid of the co-branding (which removed ads from message boards). I believe co-branding requires eager sponsers, and few sponsers will sign without expecting a quota to be met in their contract... if the quota of $ they get from co-branding isn't met, contract is canceled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know ezboard got rid of co-branding b/c of lack of usage. I find message board crowd and RS crowd to have enough similarities to have a connection within this context of ezboard?

[blackrazor]

ezboard used to do co-branding. They got rid of the co-branding (which removed ads from message boards). I believe co-branding requires eager sponsers, and few sponsers will sign without expecting a quota to be met in their contract... if the quota of $ they get from co-branding isn't met, contract is canceled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know ezboard got rid of co-branding b/c of lack of usage. I find message board crowd and RS crowd to have enough similarities to have a connection within this context of ezboard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting point, but there is a world of difference between an MMORPG and a message board. Online games are far more immersive (addictive), and players are willing to do far more in their real life, in order to better their virtual avatars. You almost never see that kind of personal sacrifice with users of a message board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Case in point: People will pay $5 a month for a JAVA online game, but how many would pay Tip.it that same $5 a month in order to access the wonderful information resources _and_ message boards here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are people who are willing to pay for Runescape, but lack the financial tools, or they distrust the internet for secure transactions. Also, some people can't commit to monthly obligations, but they are willing to pay when cash comes their way. Some people may not be able to stomach the idea of "renting time" to play an online game, but are perfectly fine with purchasing real world goods, and receiving online coupons as a side-benefit. All these groups of people would be the natural target for co-branding campaigns.