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England Riots


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#261
Danqazmlp
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The issue of using cctv being Orwellian is an issue about whether or not it should be there; not about using it to convict people as it is there.
We have cctv all over the place under the pretence of catching criminals, so its doing its job.

I hate going into larger towns because I dislike the fact that any given moment there's several security cameras with me in their view like I'm some [bleep]ing criminal who is guilty until proven innocent.



I feel deeply sorry for you with that mentality. Unless you are doing something wrong, a CCTV operator won't take a second look at you. The fact is that CCTV makes areas much safer and personally, I and much in favour of putting CCTV in as many public places as humanly possible. They make me feel much safer when walking anywhere, are a great deterrent to most crimes and if a crime is committed, they can aid greatly in finding the culprit. They are one of the greatest assets to policing in this country.

I get constantly amazed at the paranoia of average internet users. The police, government and any other authorities do not care whatsoever about you, deal with it. You are nothing but tiny fish in the ocean. They don't care about your everyday actions, they aren't watching you, reading your emails and plotting to make a dictatorship at ever turn. The police and governments in the UK are humans, everyday people. We even have a police officer on Tip.it staff. He certainly isn't spending every day monitoring the forums just to catch you doing something wrong to have more power over you and throw you in jail.
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#262
Sy_Accursed
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The issue of using cctv being Orwellian is an issue about whether or not it should be there; not about using it to convict people as it is there.
We have cctv all over the place under the pretence of catching criminals, so its doing its job.

I hate going into larger towns because I dislike the fact that any given moment there's several security cameras with me in their view like I'm some [bleep]ing criminal who is guilty until proven innocent.



I feel deeply sorry for you with that mentality. Unless you are doing something wrong, a CCTV operator won't take a second look at you. The fact is that CCTV makes areas much safer and personally, I and much in favour of putting CCTV in as many public places as humanly possible. They make me feel much safer when walking anywhere, are a great deterrent to most crimes and if a crime is committed, they can aid greatly in finding the culprit. They are one of the greatest assets to policing in this country.

I get constantly amazed at the paranoia of average internet users. The police, government and any other authorities do not care whatsoever about you, deal with it. You are nothing but tiny fish in the ocean. They don't care about your everyday actions, they aren't watching you, reading your emails and plotting to make a dictatorship at ever turn. The police and governments in the UK are humans, everyday people. We even have a police officer on Tip.it staff. He certainly isn't spending every day monitoring the forums just to catch you doing something wrong to have more power over you and throw you in jail.


This is so true.
I mean all cctv means is say ur in a shopping mall instead of being watched by a security guard when you happen to be in same are as them while some other poor sap gets mugged at the other end. 1 or 2 guards in the cctv office can monitor the whole complex and direct security staff to anywhere an issue arises result in more efficient deterrent and protection.
Heck outside privately own cctv systems the public ones aren't even monitor THAT intently; its barely like you are being watched they have thousands of people on cam at any given time. Unless you are looking suspicious or clearly committing a crime they won't pay you any attention, exactly the same as a police officer on the street wouldn't.

I get the whole big brother is watching thing, but that's a fictional story run by an interfering and dictatorial ruler; we don't have that and even if we DID have that the sheer man power needed to actually intensely watch and monitor every person in the way the fiction does is just ludicrous; it can't be done unless 50% of the entire population is working to monitor the cctv feeds each watching 1 specific person. Heck drop even to 30 - 40% region of population and you already got a heap of stuff going unwatched and its still a ludicrously impossible task to monitor it all; its why we put criminals in prison or mental patients in locked psychiatric facilities/wards or even the infirm in care homes they need to be in a confined controlled environment to realistically monitor them 24/7.

Abuse of personal data stored by the police etc I can see concern over, but cctv i just paranoia to be so worried about. I mean when you consider a show like Big Brother requires hundreds of staff members a large portion of which are camera operators or monitor watchers (for the in house remote cams) and that's just for a house of like 12 people who can't go anyway it puts the idea of us being under such scrutiny in perspective.

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#263
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This gave me a good laugh this morning. Thought I'd share it here.
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#264
Locke_Superbus
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The police and governments in the UK are humans, everyday people.


just like every other place on earth.

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if you really think facism cant ever occur here in Britain and sit back as you liberty is eroded then you're simply ensuring its appearance.

#265
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Got to say this made me laugh when I read it this morning:

http://www.metro.co....step-in-by-iran

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#266
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Got to say this made me laugh when I read it this morning:

http://www.metro.co....step-in-by-iran


Ahmadinejad is just a troll tbh

#267
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I love Ahmadinejad, lol.

I realize there's a huge difference but a lot of the hypocrisy he points out about the west is valid.

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#268
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I love Ahmadinejad, lol.

I realize there's a huge difference but a lot of the hypocrisy he points out about the west is valid.

True. But there's a lot more hypocrisy in the Islamic Republic that he presides over. Though I agree with some of his statements, he nullifies them by being exactly what he condemns others for being.


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#269
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He angers the West because the West know often they're in the wrong, even if he's not necessarily right by contrast.

But anyway, I thought this section was interesting from Russell Brand (of all people! Or perhaps not given his history of youth delinquency):

I should here admit that I have been arrested for criminal damage for my part in anti-capitalist protest earlier in this decade. I often attended protests and then, in my early 20s, and on drugs, I enjoyed it when the protests lost direction and became chaotic, hostile even. I was intrigued by the anarchist "Black bloc", hooded and masked, as, in retrospect, was their agenda, but was more viscerally affected by the football "casuals" who'd turn up because the veneer of the protest's idealistic objective gave them the perfect opportunity to wreck stuff and have a row with the Old Bill.

That was never my cup of tea though. For one thing, policemen are generally pretty good fighters and second, it registered that the accent they shouted at me with was closer to my own than that of some of those singing about the red flag making the wall of plastic shields between us seem thinner.

I found those protests exciting, yes, because I was young and a bit of a twerp but also, I suppose, because there was a void in me. A lack of direction, a sense that I was not invested in the dominant culture, that government existed not to look after the interests of the people it was elected to represent but the big businesses that they were in bed with.

I felt that, and I had a mum who loved me, a dad who told me that nothing was beyond my reach, an education, a grant from Essex council (to train as an actor of all things!!!) and several charities that gave me money for maintenance. I shudder to think how disenfranchised I would have felt if I had been deprived of that long list of privileges.

That state of deprivation though is, of course, the condition that many of those rioting endure as their unbending reality. No education, a weakened family unit, no money and no way of getting any. JD Sports is probably easier to desecrate if you can't afford what's in there and the few poorly paid jobs there are taken. Amidst the bleakness of this social landscape, squinting all the while in the glare of a culture that radiates ultraviolet consumerism and infrared celebrity. That daily, hourly, incessantly enforces the egregious, deceitful message that you are what you wear, what you drive, what you watch and what you watch it on, in livid, neon pixels. The only light in their lives comes from these luminous corporate messages. No wonder they have their [bleep]ing hoods up.

Coming from a poor working class area myself--though no rioting was reported in Preston--the last paragraph is a picture I find painfully familiar in the people I grew up with and sat alongside at school. Disenfranchisement, and no way to correct it by your own volition.

#270
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I feel deeply sorry for you with that mentality. Unless you are doing something wrong, a CCTV operator won't take a second look at you. The fact is that CCTV makes areas much safer and personally, I and much in favour of putting CCTV in as many public places as humanly possible. They make me feel much safer when walking anywhere, are a great deterrent to most crimes and if a crime is committed, they can aid greatly in finding the culprit. They are one of the greatest assets to policing in this country.

There's a thing called privacy, that's something that every individual deserves and their wishes of privacy should be respected (companies and governments, however, need to run with a certain degree of transparency.)

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#271
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I love Ahmadinejad, lol.

I realize there's a huge difference but a lot of the hypocrisy he points out about the west is valid.

True. But there's a lot more hypocrisy in the Islamic Republic that he presides over. Though I agree with some of his statements, he nullifies them by being exactly what he condemns others for being.


Yeah. Still is interesting though.


I feel deeply sorry for you with that mentality. Unless you are doing something wrong, a CCTV operator won't take a second look at you. The fact is that CCTV makes areas much safer and personally, I and much in favour of putting CCTV in as many public places as humanly possible. They make me feel much safer when walking anywhere, are a great deterrent to most crimes and if a crime is committed, they can aid greatly in finding the culprit. They are one of the greatest assets to policing in this country.

There's a thing called privacy, that's something that every individual deserves and their wishes of privacy should be respected (companies and governments, however, need to run with a certain degree of transparency.)


Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?

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#272
Furah
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Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?

Governments and corporations have a responsibility to be accountable for their actions. It helps fight off back-room deals, embezzlement, coercion and a myriad of other illegal activities. It's the responsibility of the government to serve the people, not the people to serve the government.

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#273
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Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?

Governments and corporations have a responsibility to be accountable for their actions. It helps fight off back-room deals, embezzlement, coercion and a myriad of other illegal activities. It's the responsibility of the government to serve the people, not the people to serve the government.

In exactly the same way that people have a responsibility to be accountable for their actions. It helps fight off rape, murder, arson, vandalism, theft and a myriad of other illegal activities.

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#274
Locke_Superbus
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Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?


corporations and governments are not people, they have no rights, only privleges and responibilities

#275
obfuscator
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Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?


corporations and governments are not people, they have no rights, only privleges and responibilities

Why is this? Because they're a collective entity of people?

If that's the case, your family should have no rights, only you individually; except that's not the case.

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#276
sees_all1
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Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?


corporations and governments are not people, they have no rights, only privleges and responibilities

Why is this? Because they're a collective entity of people?

If that's the case, your family should have no rights, only you individually; except that's not the case.

I'd argue that government only has the rights that its people give it, but I'm guessing that isn't what you're taking issue with. :P

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#277
obfuscator
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Why should governments and corporations give up their right to privacy but you should be allowed to retain yours?


corporations and governments are not people, they have no rights, only privleges and responibilities

Why is this? Because they're a collective entity of people?

If that's the case, your family should have no rights, only you individually; except that's not the case.

I'd argue that government only has the rights that its people give it, but I'm guessing that isn't what you're taking issue with. :P

Not at all. I'm in favour of watchdog groups and transparent government/corporations - I just think it's terribly hypocritical for ordinary people to demand these things and get upset that there are security cameras in the streets.

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