Ardougne Tasks

[Sy_Accursed]

E2 and E3 both reference the issue of buying from the silk trader and stall stealing; should be noted this issue avoidable by using a Vial of Stench after Buyers and Cellars.

 

So overall edits would be items required change Silk to Silk (or Vial of Stench)

 

E2 Method:

Attempt to steal from any of the stalls or pickpocket a guard, if you brought a Vial of Stench steal from the silk stall to aid the next task; if not avoid this stall as it will prevent you completing the next task.

 

E3 method:

Offer to sell the silk for 120 coins to the merchant, then say you want 60, and he will accept. If using Vial of Stench silk can be stolen from his stall; else it can be obtained from Al-Kharid's silk stall or other players.

[All_Bogs]

Thank you for your suggestion :)

 

I don't want to sound negative, but adding this method seems to be a little redundant. People don't really tend to have a spare vial of stench (a) lying around in their bank. Teleporting to Al Kharid and buying a piece of silk seems to be easier then making chopped onion, making a vial of stench, travelling to the Thieves' Guild and having Robin enchant it.

 

Right now, the text does seem to indicate that buying silk from other players or from the stall in Al Kharid are the only two options. I'll adjust the text to make this sound like suggestions instead.

[Sy_Accursed]

Its a valid method of completing the task so it is in no way redundant.

Note how I left all the methods in and included the vial in the suggested items; meaning it wouldn't be extra leg work as people would have the options and simply have the faster choice there if they own the vial.

 

Plus it's not like making the vial is massively more leg work than teleing to buy the silk.

You just bank for a vial instead of coins and then tele to lumby not al-kharid.

 

Also given that it is a valid method, I fail to see how it is any more redundant than karamja covering the fact that tai bwo wanni clean up may give a gem rock to cover the gem rock task; despite the rock spawns being reasonably rare and most people probably not gonna find one.

After all is not the purpose of the guide to explain ALL possible ways to accomplish the tasks? And if one does happen to have a vial of stench banked is it not clearly much faster to steal silk ten sell it straight back, given that you are there already?

 

Equally by that logic it is utterly redundant for MEP2 guide to explain the dwarf list to acquire death talisman as it can be bought.

It's redundant for the summoning guide to mention any of the big obelisks other than taverly and piscatoris as they are the only two worth training at.

etc.

[All_Bogs]

Its a valid method of completing the task so it is in no way redundant. Note how I left all the methods in and included the vial in the suggested items; meaning it wouldn't be extra leg work as people would have the options and simply have the faster choice there if they own the vial.

 

After all is not the purpose of the guide to explain ALL possible ways to accomplish the tasks?

The idea of the guide is to explain the best / fastest possible way of accomplishing a task, while also describing any potentially convenient alternatives that might be available. I feel that the odds of somebody randomly having a vial of stench are pretty low, and making a vial of stench from scratch isn't very convenient. As such, listing this slower method would be pretty redundant.

 

You can't just keep adding things to a guide without impacting the quality. People reading the tasks guide just want the most convenient solution, and they want it now. Every little piece of text you add to a guide will result in more time being required to read it.

 

Plus it's not like making the vial is massively more leg work than teleing to buy the silk.

You just bank for a vial instead of coins and then tele to lumby not al-kharid.

I think it's reasonable to assume that somebody might have some irit, a vial and a knife in their bank. Bowls, maybe. Onions, probably not. Having to fetch onions first and then visiting the guy in the Thieves' Guild definitely seems slower than hopping to Al Kharid and getting some silk there.

 

Also given that it is a valid method, I fail to see how it is any more redundant than karamja covering the fact that tai bwo wanni clean up may give a gem rock to cover the gem rock task; despite the rock spawns being reasonably rare and most people probably not gonna find one.

This method may be useful to people who have not yet completed the Shilo Village quest? I'm not sure, but I think that may be the intent.

 

Equally by that logic it is utterly redundant for MEP2 guide to explain the dwarf list to acquire death talisman as it can be bought. It's redundant for the summoning guide to mention any of the big obelisks other than taverly and piscatoris as they are the only two worth training at. etc.

Obtaining a death talisman over all the random items saves a ridiculous amount of time for every single person who does the quest. That's hardly comparable to a very small chance of a person using the tasks guide saving 20 seconds by not having to buy some silk because he just happens to have a vial of stench in his inventory. As for the summoning guide, I do think that the intent is to list all locations for the sake of being complete.

[Sy_Accursed]

It is comparable though because the item list and the other obelisks are slower so why included them?

It's the exact same logic that you have applied to this: It's slower so why include it?

 

It adds the whole of 15 words to 1 task

10 to another.

And even that could be shaved down.

 

And thoose descriptions are still FAR shorter than some others eg:

"Buy a gout tuber from another player, or use a machete to play the Tai Bwo Wannai Cleanup activity until you find a gout tuber to dig up with a spade. Semi-precious gems (opal, jade and red topaz) can be mined occasionally during this activity, or at the Shilo Village gem rocks. Trading sticks are also earned in this activity, or buy from other players. Safta Doc charges higher level gems and more trading sticks for better machetes: opal, jade, or red topaz. Talk to Safta Doc and purchase any machete from him using items collected from the clean up activity."

 

That rambles on for far longer than strictly neccessary.

Plus the shilo village argument hardly holds up since the task set requires use of the cart transport system that requires shilo village anyway.

 

The onion taking time to get hardly factors at all, after all there is an onion field literally right by the guild building.

Also as you said guides list all details for the sake of being complete; this guide is incomplete as it fails to list a viable method for the task.

 

Plus as you said:

"also describing any potentially convenient alternatives that might be available"

Vial of stench is potentially convenient method.

 

It's not like your putting in a massive essay on HOW to get vial of stench, just a few words to say IF you have a vial of stench you can use it to theive from silk stall making the task quicker.

Same way you are saying IF a gem rock turns up in tai bwo wanni clean up you can save buying gems.

[All_Bogs]

It is comparable though because the item list and the other obelisks are slower so why included them?

It's the exact same logic that you have applied to this: It's slower so why include it?

 

Also as you said guides list all details for the sake of being complete; this guide is incomplete as it fails to list a viable method for the task.

 

Not too sure on the item list. I think it's just included given as it appears to be a part of the natural quest progression, and it also presents an opportunity to get a "free" death talisman. Also, back when the quest originally came out, buying a death talisman wasn't as easy as it is now. Given their price it seems to be something that could be removed - nobody will bother completing the list for a talisman that's worth an entire 1200 coins. I'll discuss that with the others.

 

Not all guides necessarily cover all details. A skill guide typically does - a paragraph on obelisk locations surely should cover all obelisk locations at any rate. Maybe guide is a bit of a misnomer for the task guides - they're more of a walkthrough. Bottom line being that not all guides are equal.

 

And thoose descriptions are still FAR shorter than some others eg:

"Buy a gout tuber from another player, or use a machete to play the Tai Bwo Wannai Cleanup activity until you find a gout tuber to dig up with a spade. Semi-precious gems (opal, jade and red topaz) can be mined occasionally during this activity, or at the Shilo Village gem rocks. Trading sticks are also earned in this activity, or buy from other players. Safta Doc charges higher level gems and more trading sticks for better machetes: opal, jade, or red topaz. Talk to Safta Doc and purchase any machete from him using items collected from the clean up activity."

 

That rambles on for far longer than strictly neccessary.

Plus the shilo village argument hardly holds up since the task set requires use of the cart transport system that requires shilo village anyway.

 

Yeah, that's a pretty wordy explanation. I don't mind the mention of gems from the Cleanup activity too much - it does indicate that people can get all of the required items from the activity itself if they're not willing to spend some coins. It should probably be rewritten to be less wordy, though.

 

 

As for the vial of stench, I doubt that we're going to agree so I'll ask for a second opinion on that one :P

[Sy_Accursed]

That description:

"Buy a gout tuber from another player, or use a machete to play the Tai Bwo Wannai Cleanup activity until you find a gout tuber to dig up with a spade. Semi-precious gems (opal, jade and red topaz) can be mined occasionally during this activity, or at the Shilo Village gem rocks. Trading sticks are also earned in this activity, or buy from other players. Safta Doc charges higher level gems and more trading sticks for better machetes: opal, jade, or red topaz. Talk to Safta Doc and purchase any machete from him using items collected from the clean up activity."

101 words.

 

Re-worded:

"Talk to Safta Doc to buy a machete for semi-precious gems, trading sticks and a gout tuber. All these items can be gained by playing Tai Bwo Wanni Clean Up (requires machete, pickaxe and spade) or purchased from other players; semi-precious gems can also be mined in Shilo Village."

48 words.

 

Halved the length, lost none of the info.

Random side bar: Is there any special reason everywhere on the site including url references Tai Bwo Wanni Clean Up, yet activities page randomly lists it as "Jungle Clean Up"?

 

Plus I'm still adamant it should go in, it takes so few words and is a perfectly viable and useful method IF you have it.

No need to explain it in depth, just put the note and include a link to the item; those who want to get it/have it can use it easily everyone else can still see exactly what to do to.

[All_Bogs]

Sounds good, I've added it to the Karamja tasks guide.

 

I've discussed the vial of stench issue with another crew member and they too feel that adding it isn't really worthwhile, bottom line being that almost nobody has one banked and making one is slower than just buying some silk. We won't discuss this further. Still, as always, your suggestions are appreciated :)

[essiw]

About the death talisman part. I think it should stay in the quest guide, as there are people who want to do the quest as it should be (not me though :P I am to lazy for such cheap item).

[All_Bogs]

I talked about it and we won't be removing it entirely, but we will be placing almost everything related to obtaining the 'free' death talisman within hide/show block. The quest guide will assume you're bringing your own talisman, though it will still explain who Thorgel is to avoid any confusion.

[essiw]

Sounds good to me :)