Intro

 

 

 

Hans and Antyom knelt quitly behind a stack of hay as two Soviet soldiers walked past. . THey both hoped the soldiers wouldn't see them but they were not so lucky. One of the soldiers turned around and started firing as the other tried flanking them to the left but as son as he got to the haystack Hans' bayonet plunged through his chest. The other soldier called for a medic but was soon silenced by Antyon's rifle butt. Anyton radioed to his commander saying. "enemy down west of the river behind the department store." Soon Nazi vehicles rolled in. As the two bodies were being loaded onto the truck a commanding officer walked up to them both. "That was some damn good work you just did back there. You fought with stealth and power" the commander said. "I would like to inform you both that you have been promoted to the rank of UntersturmfÃÆÃâÃâührer. Congratulations.

 

 

 

This way November 16th 1942, though many had been lost the Germans had managed to foce the Soviets into two small pockets by the volga; and things were looking bright. Food was still readily availible and morale was high. This seemed like a dream to Hans and Anyton, they were serving there fatherland and they would come home reigning heroes, if only they knew soon there dream would become a tragedy.

 

 

 

Hans was born in Germany in the Rhineland region, his parents were wine farmers and although they lived a pretty comfortable life. When HItler came to power Hans was quick to join the Hitler Youth until he joined the German infantry just as the war broke out in 1939. Anyton lived a much less comfortable life. He lived under crazed communist parents and learned to hate the political party because of there behavior. So as soon as the Nazis invaded he went and joined the army.

 

 

 

When Hans and Anytom returned to camp they were greeted by a flood of Curious people that gathered around them. "You guys are lean mean killin' machines!" one soldier said. Another shouted, "What is this kill number 26 for you Hans, and 23 for you now Anytom? Wow hardly anyone ever gets that high of a freakin' kill count. The two ranking officers just smiled and soaked up all the attention that they could juice out. But Hans' mood changed at the award ceremony. As he stood at the podium giving his speech, he started getting a nervous, sick feeling in his stomach. "Why are they promoting me and Anytom so soon?" he thought to himself. "There has got to be something wrong and out of place here." After the ceremony the Wkiskey came out. "Aw forget it i'm probobly just having an overactive imagination, maybe I'm just sorta mess up from killing that Russian. I just gotta relax." With that he forgot his worries and went to join Anytom and some other soldiers at a table and poured himself a hard shot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That next morning Anytom woke up to the sound of artilery shells. He pulled his blanket off and turn to his friend Aleski and told him to get up quick! Yohan stood up quickly grabbed his Mause rilfe and climbed out of the foxhole. Then Anytom turned towards Hans and said "Hey Hans get up!!!! were getting fired on." This was Hans' signal. He sparang to his feet and grabbed his PPSh that he swiped off a dead Russian. "Ok got it, meet you outside!" he said.

 

 

 

"Ok UntersturmfÃÆÃâÃâührer." a gruff Commander said. " "We need to get across volga. Your company is going to reinforce company 11 up on the hill near wear the church building is. Were facing heavy artillery fire so I suggest platoon 1 crosses the river and your buddy Anytom leading platoon 2 takes the bridge, to suppress enemy fire from up above, you got that?" "Yes sir!" Hans shouted.

 

 

 

I was 0900 hours and the sun was hidden by a light fog, Anytom had a lump in his throat as tthe coompany headed over to there deployment point by Jeep. He was worried and there was no denying it. He fell slowly into a daze off memories of seeing his parents faces when he said he was joining the German army. "Fine, get out of our f**king house!" he recalled his father yelling at him repeated. Really the army, for him was the only place where he really ever felt like he had family.

 

 

 

Then the Jeep started abruptly, the gunfire sounded about 2 times louder than back at camp. Anytom grabbed his SUb Machine gun and ran out of the Jeep, directly his platoon over to the bridge. Hans gave the order as he stepped into the Volga. And Anyton began rnning across the bridge. Before he knew it he was across the bridge. It was chaos, artilery shells rocketed the earth as they landed. He heard sniper fire from a far. Just then he saw him, a Russian soldier firing into the pit. rat a tat a tat rat a tat. Anytom felt the force of his gun against his wrists. The Russian hit the ground, a dark puddle of blood was starting to form around his back. He was screaming and flailing in pain. Anytom ran over with hi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More later, need bios!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Set them up like this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Name: (preferrably Russian or German)

 

 

 

Age:

 

 

 

Country of Origon:

 

 

 

Army:Soviet, German, Civilian

 

 

 

Division: Anti aircraft, infantry, storm troops, mechanized, heavy tanks, cavalry, sniper, civilian

 

 

 

Rank: US rank i can figure out the Germaan equivalant.

 

 

 

Weapon: Infantry and cavalry only

 

 

 

Disposition/Fate: (ex. killed, injured, POW, executed, survived, survived the war

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Example

 

 

 

Name: Franz

 

 

 

Age: 19

 

 

 

Country of origon: Germany

 

 

 

Army: Nazi

 

 

 

Division: Infantry

 

 

 

Rank: Private

 

 

 

Weapon: Mauser bolt action

 

 

 

Fate: POW

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you put in the effort to write the bio I'll put it into the story guaranteed

two words, too short!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also its rubble, not ruble, the ruble, I believe, is the money they use... (unless its some other country?)

Tooooo shoooort... and I'm not trying to be horrible here but it kind of sucks. Nice try though, btw ruble is Russian currency as opposed to rubble, piles of bricks from a torn down structure.

I assume that this is just the beginning as neither died. I also assume you are using wordplay, rumble-ruble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway it was pretty good, except the soviet soldiers normally travel alone, or in large groups, not twos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You introduced 2 characters, both of which are still alive, so it will probably go on to get bigger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The story is pretty sound and just waiting for the next bit.

two words, too short!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also its rubble, not ruble, the ruble, I believe, is the money they use... (unless its some other country?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out and as I shouldve mentioned this is just the very beginning

Cool topic to write about. What were there an estimated 2 million casualties in the battle of Stalingrad? Largest battle in recorded history from memory. :shock: Good luck with writing it. :thumbsup:

Name: Alexsei Alyosha (ah-lyek-SYEY ah-LYO-sha )

 

 

 

Age: 32

 

 

 

Country of Orign: Sibera

 

 

 

Army: Soviet

 

 

 

Division: Enginner

 

 

 

Rank: Second Lieutenant (Podporudchik)

 

 

 

Weapon: Russian WWII Mosin Nagant M1895 revolver

 

 

 

Disposition/Fate: Survived the war, became Captain(Kaptain) of a nuclear submarine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Name: Charles Godfrey

 

 

 

Age: 18

 

 

 

Country of orign: Germany

 

 

 

Army: Nazi

 

 

 

Division: Infantry

 

 

 

Rank: SturmscharfÃÆÃâÃâührer (Warrant Officer)

 

 

 

Weapon: MP40 Cal. 9 mm

 

 

 

Fate: POW. Captured in Late 1944, by the Soviets at the battle of the Bulge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ps If you wanted someone to help write it then I would be happy to help.

Slightly updated. Thanks for the good constructive critism

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Issy i will make it longer

*Hiss Boo*

 

 

 

Communism owns.(No I mean that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway the story is good, although they didn't do a whole lot, but since its just character setting thats fine.

*Hiss Boo*

 

 

 

Communism owns.(No I mean that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway the story is good, although they didn't do a whole lot, but since its just character setting thats fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said I personally hated communism...good in theory bad in practice

Only bad because Capitalist's jumped on it... Russia was far to large and underdevolped to support its population, even before communism. At least communism turned it from a larger version of sibera into a super power. Communism need a hard leader to tell people "ok you work or you don't, but if it turns out you have no food at the end of the year then theres no aid comming to help you." You do that and suddenly getting a few penies really isn't that important.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just got to go though one generation were money is not the overriding aspect in peoples lives. Where everyone is equal and where people are educated to know that they don't have any more power than anyone else. A farmer is equal to the Leader, that is communism.

But its a slightly weaker governmental system, allowing brutal dictators like Josef Stalin and Krazy Khim to come in annd give the political party a bad name.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its really a good idea, it just dosent work out sometimes

Sorry I am not aiming any direct abuse but....

 

 

 

Also sorry for being long-winded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about Hitler, Henry V, George Bush, Saddam Hussian, Wilhem, Tsars(In general), Richard Nixon, Aurgustus, Caeser, Mussiloni, Hirohito(Last Japanese Emperor), Napoleon, Francis Drake, Robert Mugabe, British Empire...The list is pretty endless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Capitalist/Fasict/"Democratic"/Republican systems are much weaker systems because they do not have any checks or balances. Between propaganda and 'disappearances' the system really isn't any where near as great as people think.

 

 

 

When people think of Capitalism in action they think of something like Great Britian, or America, or one of the MEDCs. They don't think of dictators like Hitler and Napoleon, because they were dictators of yester-year.

 

 

 

When they think of Communism they see a brutal system of repression and control that was an angry bear trying to destroy the 'civilized' world. They don't think of Russia before the Communist revolution, a backward country that would probably have been staved to death before the end of the 20th centuary. They don't think, oh if Russia had stayed the same size then Hitler would have had little opposition in Europe. The mainland would have been conquered and Britian would have sued for peace, the entire idea that communism has created tonnes of suffering is born of Propaganda.

 

 

 

Yes it was brutal, but in 100 years it turned a country from a loose confederation lead by a dictator, into a large commune of states that had recovered from two world wars where it was invaded. No other country did what Russia did. America just hung about thinking it could do what it liked because they were too far away, the wonderful America saves the day. Doesn't say in the history books how the Russians lost more than the combinded losses of the rest of the Allies. It doesn't say how if it hadn't been for Russia then the chances of a continental Nazi state would be a reality.

 

 

 

Just as without the Nazis, there would probably be a continetal Soviet state. But look at Russia. It is a poor country with a backwards economy, it barely scraped though the First World War. It then forced its way though the Second World War, no real aid in restoring it to power. Britan, Superpower of the time, need over 33 Billion(Correct me if I am wrong) US Dollars to restore its econmy to a pre-war standard. Britan had suffered from the loss at Dunkirk and from the D-day landings, other than these two major battles the only fighting it did was aerial and naval. Simply for its own survival, and that was with American support. What did the Russians have? There own size. That was it. It had taken everything that it had had to regenerate the country, and then some.

 

 

 

The communist system may not be wonderful as a system for a fully devolped country like the USA were people are obessed with being better than someone else. It would work after about two generations of re-education but to do it would require alot of effort. Just as it required alot of effort in turning the Capitalist Russia to a Communist Soviet state. But was it worth it? Was it worth all those people dying though hardship, so that they could let even more people die in a War against Germany? A war that could have been ended swiftly by the USA or even by the European countries actually acting. No, it needed to have a strong Germany as a buffer zone, in case the soviets were planning on invading.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People say, 'Communism doesn't work, nobody helps people for nothing.' What about your family? What about the people you care about? Do you give them money for doing jobs around the house? Do you think that anywhere over three hundred years ago, that small villages and tribes really worried that much about gaining wealth? They were more worried about surviving.

 

 

 

You take money out of the system and why would people need to work? They have 'other' people to do the work for them, and then they skim the profits. They have 'other' people to do the jobs that they are too important for. They have 'other' people to work for them, so they can sit and do absolutely nothing. They give themselves titles like 'Manager', create forms and paperwork so that they can keep track of 'other' people. They spend their whole lives working out how they can penny pinch and squeeze as much money out of 'other' people, as they can.

 

 

 

The 'other' people, who are they? They are just people who no one really cares about unless they don't work, then suddenly they are bad people, they are rebels. They have a life-threatening illness, and can't come in for the rest of the year, Boo-hoo, send them a get well soon card and a pink slip. Some that isn't productive is cut from the system like a limb is cut from the body when its grazed. Except thats not what happens. People hold on to their limbs until they have to let them go. Like the dole, and benefits. We treat people that can't work differently because they are unproductive, but might become productive in the future, so because we are over-producing the system keeps them alive.

 

 

 

The 'other' people get to work. The ones that arn't off sick, the ones that arn't terminally ill. They get to be taxed on their earnings so that in the distant future someone can die never having once lifted a finger to do anything. Sounds like Communism? Thats because its inherited in the Capitalist system. The same way that mis-trust is in a relationship, you don't have to say that its there to know it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Communism, you have someone that can't work, ok fine, they get the same as everyone else. Some one think 'hey wait, if I say I can't work then I don't have to work either' So you are left with the honest people working the rest of them just sitting about doing nothing. Then suddenly its havest and amazingly there are no crops, and no food. A cold winter sets in, and there is much death over it. The next year, one of two things will happen; one they will all die, in which case a weak section of genes have been removed, two the people who do nothing suddenly realise that no one is going to protect them, that they need to work to survive. Suddenly the system is sustaining. Except now rather than a hundred people working a full time job as famers, you have three hundred people working part time as a farmers, and then they have free time.

 

 

 

Every system has people who are naturally good farmers, and actually do the work even though its more than their share, just like every system has people that are much more productive as a engineer. The idea is to make sure that people do what they need to do, and then they can do what they want. In the same way that people need to work in the capitalist system, the difference is that everyone working, means everyone can do what they want as well. In the same way that people like Albert Enstien did work part time at a patent office, and while doing that was able to discover relativity. Imagine how many other Albert Enstiens there are out their, toiling is some field somewhere because they are the 'other' person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

 

 

 

Surely if everyone works together, it is better than everyone working against each other.

The failure of communism as a system of government and economic management comes from a number of factors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, the ideal communist state will have at some point in the past already industralised under a capitalist system. Given this, most states will in fact be unable to make the transition as the power base of the capitalists will be too strong to overthrow. The Russian revolution was a success because of the incompetence of the current ruling class, the superior organisation of the new ruling elite, and that it ignored the fact that Russia had not fully industralised by 1917. If it had, however, there would simply have been no way for communist ideas to take hold, since only the powerless in a capitalist system would actually support it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, given that, at the time of the 1917 revolution, the power of the Tsarist state over the people rested almost entirely within the military - which, as it was composed largely of the peasantry following conscription to sustain the Eastern Front, was easily subverted by Lenin's "Peace, bread and land" motto. This is the reason why the Bolsheviks managed to seize control.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The crucial thing to realise is that there is simply no way for a revolution to take hold where the only support is the powerless masses. A strong ruling elite is needed, as in Russia's case, and backed by a powerful entity such as the military. A revolution on ideological grounds alone is doomed to failure, especially on as large a scale as Russia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The second assumption of communism is that, by the time of its implementation, all society in the world would be psychologically prepared to accept it and use it as a system of government and economic management. There is the key assumption - everyone working for everyone else. This has never actually happened before. At the time of the Russian revolution, Lenin conceded that in order for the transition to a communist state to actually happen, there would have to be, for a time, a strong ruling elite to govern the state, protect it from outside threats, and manage its resources. By its nature, a dictatorship is the most efficient form of government. However, as demonstrated by the events surrounding the treaty of Brest-Litovsk, it was clear that there would be no revolutions spawning from the Russian into the rest of Europe, as Lenin and Trotsky hoped when they tried to delay negotiations with Germany.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After Brest-Litovsk, Trotsky put forward the idea of socialism in one country - that is, giving up the notion of a world revolution taking hold so soon after the Russian. The simple fact of the matter was that no other states in Europe were unstable enough to actually allow a communist revolution to take hold. There is the problem - communism is, ideally, a system which encompasses the whole world. Limiting it to only one state is not conducive to its spread, at least in a centrally controllable manner. Take the case of China, Cuba, Vietnam and North Korea, for example. They do not emulate the system which was used by the Bolsheviks, which is contrary to the aims of world revolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why communism fails. There can be no transition from a capitalist state to a communist simply because there is an insufficient power base to support a communist movement within a capitalist society. Furthermore, the socialist revolution relies on a mindset which is, at this point in time, virtually unachievable by the world as a whole.

everyone working for everyone else. This has never actually happened before

 

 

 

Actually this happened quite alot...in small scale setting such as tribes and cultures of the middle ages. Money is basically liquid trust, you can give it to anyone and they will think that you have worked for it.(Or at least that was how it was supposed to originally worked.

 

 

 

Trotsky put forward the idea of socialism in one country

 

 

 

Stalin did this, and it is probably what caused the system to fail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are very right though, a power base of a significant level cannot be made in a country such as America that has a fully function system already. Reason? There is no need for it. So what if the Capitalist system is going to be around in ten thousand years still grinding people under the boots of capitalism. The people in power are perfectly content to leave them there because to be honest they did a bit of work once and why should they do it again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good metaphor is dropping a frog into a boiling(90 Degrees lets say) pan of water, it not on the heat but is going to hurt like anything. It will jump out because it can see how it will suffer if it stays.(This is communism) Drop a frog into a pan of water that is about 20 degrees, but on the heat it will sit there while it is cooked alive, as it rises and stays at 80 degrees.(This is capitalism)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While things never get as bad as the start of Communism it stays uncomfortably for the people at the bottom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and spare the socialism. Capitalism has two major flaws. 1 It is survival of the fittest, except when there is over production(So the gene pool is polluted with people who arn't going to work). 2 It relies on unending resources. If all the Iron, Coal and Oil ran out tommrow and there was nothing else to restore the JOBS lost in it, the capitalist system would grind to a halt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Communism is about sharing what we have, not stockpiling in case of attack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Communism is the eventual system that will take hold. No matter what happens there will reach a point were there is no way for Capitalism to support itself. It can't, even now.

 

Trotsky put forward the idea of socialism in one country

 

 

 

Stalin did this, and it is probably what caused the system to fail.

 

 

 

No, it was Trotsky. In 1921, just prior to the introduction of the NEP, when it was clear the world revolution wasn't going to happen. Stalin and most of the Party right picked it up when he took power in 1928, and Trotsky dropped it after he was exiled in favour of his usual rabble-rousing.

Well that seems pretty strange because Stalin focused all of his attention on crushing western resistance in the USSR and building its strength...not a whole lot of support went out to other Communist groups trying to take control. Not exactly global communism...

 

 

 

There was strong communist groups in France and Italy, if they had been strenghten then maybe they would have been liberated.

Well that seems pretty strange because Stalin focused all of his attention on crushing western resistance in the USSR and building its strength...not a whole lot of support went out to other Communist groups trying to take control. Not exactly global communism...

 

 

 

There was strong communist groups in France and Italy, if they had been strenghten then maybe they would have been liberated.

 

 

 

No, Trotsky went right back to world revolution. Stalin picked up where he left off with socialism in one country, because he wanted to bolster national security.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course France and Italy's communist movements were weak. Those countries, unlike Russia, had gone through industrialisation under a capitalist system, which is a tough nut to break if you're waving the "hey, let's make everyone equally poor" flag. If there had been a major social upheaval in those two countries at that time, think about how much more differently World War 2 would have gone.

Lets see...France would have surrendered and Italy wouldn't have been an Axis power. So therefore would have not signed the Rome-Berlin agreement and would therefore nothave given Hitler the power he needed. WW2 is avoided, and Communism spread though Europe from two countries that are fully devoloped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at the facts France played a very minor role at the beginning of the war, as a staging ground for Allied troops, and then the Axis troops. The real threat came from Italy. It acted as a desert war buffer and as a backup force for Germany. It played a seemingly unimportant role, that if it had not played the war would have probably never started.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Industrialiation had removed alot of jobs, and after facist ruling by Mussiloi the people were hardly interested in capitalism in Italy. France got a good proportion of reparations from the crushed Germany, hardly much cause to produce things in France, that it was already being given. As such employment was at an all time low.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However supposing that France and Italy had been tied by the Moltov agreement and Hitler had taken Belguim and such, then Britan would have probably allied itself with Germany. Spain would have probably got involved because it now was pretty much cut off from the mainland by Communist France. It would be likely that we would have seen a very different World War 2, which considering a Communist Verses Capitalist approch with the overbearing Russian power, and the combinded French and Italian forces we would probably be looking at a Communist Europe, and very possibly a Communist America as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking into account that without the European Union to buy from America you get a pretty depression stage America, and it remains like that, its only real allies being Canada, and maybe Australia. This stalemate would be advantagous to the USSR as it would then have ample time to re-educate Europe, and achieve superpower, and with Britan and America on Germany's side it is likely that the inventors of the A-Bomb would have fled to Russia or been captured. So you know have an Atomic Soviet Union, Circa 1944.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't take a genius to notice that if Europe was taken in about 4 years it would appear that communism was the more powerful system. Without trade Capitalism is restricted immensly, and eventually it will crumble away into ashes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or the Alternate version is that the new Axis(Germany, Britian and America) conquer the Communists, this leads to Germany now controlling maybe half of Europe and a good chunk of Asia. Nazi's on a higher level, eventually boils over and would result in another cold war. But with Hitler Vs America there would probably become Atomic war. From which everyone would be equally poor. So Communism eventually resufaces, and in this wasteland of Pre-Industrial savagery, Communism eventually gains the upper hand again...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course this is all speculation, and in the real alternate history the Axis crush the Communists so completely that continental Nazi control is a reality, and it breaks into a nice Hitler-American trade agreement.

OK this is gettin off topic,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TThis is the varrock library not the debate club, Geez