Vulxai

I never said all Natives were innocent. I did say there were savage natives, however, those few tribes don't justify the slaughtering of the innocent. You have yet to answer the ACTUAL topic, even amongst your racist comment that was deleted.

I was referring to the proposed bill to pay Natives Americans a few billion dollars as recompense, actually. I didn't say I agreed with those, this whole thread was about Columbus Day and switching to a nationally recognized indigenous day. Those Native American bills are all about the greedy, and I could care less about those Natives. They care nothing about their culture and heritage, whatever they can do to make a lot of money is all that matters. Removed quote ~ Jimmy_Jim So now you're going racist? Yeah, that'll help the opposing side. EDIT: Thanks for the merge, jim.

English or don't post, please.

And to those complaining of paying us for what you didn't do. You're not doing anything. This is a DAY. It doesn't come out of your pockets, it's out of respect, which a lot of you, apparently don't have.

No, most of us aren't even mad about what happened anymore, we'd just like some gesture as of kindness. Here we have all these holidays that celebrate something, but nothing celebrating those who were here first, those who are still here, and those who suffered. Everyone's missing the point. What did Columbus do to deserve a holiday? Not a single person has answered that.

I wouldn't expect you to understand. Back in the day, the Native culture was of high importance. It still is in some Native communities. You can tell exactly what I'm talking about by using the context. The Europeans stole the Native children from their parents and sent them to boarding schools. That destroyed a lot of the culture. And to be honest, you're backing up Columbus. Why? Again, what did he do to deserve a day?

Do you even have a reasonable argument for that? Yes. You weren't killed or abused by colonists. So since I wasn't personally involved, the government doesn't owe us anything. Even though they tried exterminating our culture, so most of today's Native American's don't even know it.

Do you even have a reasonable argument for that?

Yes we do, I mentioned that in my OP and already in the thread, many Native Americans feel there should be a Native American Day, but the last few posts point towards no on their behalf.

No one's really taking about the Native's having unhealed wounds. We're not saying 'Change it since he killed us'. We're saying "What has he done to deserve it?" Two different things.

Try assisted pull-ups. Get a spotter or a chair (be careful with a chair). If you use a chair, put one foot on the seat, and then use that leverage to assist you in the pull-up. Do not use your legs muscles, it's simply there for leverage. You can also stand on a chair, and try to hold yourself up and slowly lowering yourself down (negative).

Basically it's an excuse to stay home. That's another point right there, no one even celebrates Columbus Day! However, Native American Day, you can at least give a moment of silence for the cruel things that have befallen the culture. There are many ways to celebrate an indigenous day...you can't really celebrate a Columbus Day...maybe by going to the lake?

Ah, see I had you confused. I totally agree that you should be open if you are, and there's no reason to choose to be what you're not.

Cause then it might not really be who you are...? I mean if you say you want to be gay, but you are actually straight by nature.... you won't actually be satisfied. Its like making yourself something you're not. So why would someone choose to be something they're not and something they don't enjoy? I could choose to be gay, sure. But the fact I'm not attracted to males or turned on in any manner would in fact turn me off of being gay, right? Exactly. Why would they? They wouldn't, which is why choosing to be gay isn't wrong. If you choose to be gay, it's because you want to, and that isn't wrong. But then you aren't really choosing, you already are and just didn't admit it /realize it yet. You're choosing to be open about it? In all honesty, I got confused about what we were arguing about lol. But you choose to accept it, you choose to be open about it/hide it, you choose your mate.

Cause then it might not really be who you are...? I mean if you say you want to be gay, but you are actually straight by nature.... you won't actually be satisfied. Its like making yourself something you're not. So why would someone choose to be something they're not and something they don't enjoy? I could choose to be gay, sure. But the fact I'm not attracted to males or turned on in any manner would in fact turn me off of being gay, right? Exactly. Why would they? They wouldn't, which is why choosing to be gay isn't wrong. If you choose to be gay, it's because you want to, and that isn't wrong.

In all honesty, bringing up the bible is a poor argument. That's a whole different debate whether it's truth or fiction! The fact is, you can choose to be gay, you can choose to be straight. You can't choose who you're attracted to.

Please take it to PM if you guys wish to continue this argument further, I'd like to keep this topic on-topic (on-topic in the off-topic forum, made me chuckle). According to Columbus' diary, he decided to enslave them before meeting the savage Native's, yes, if there's one savage tribe, you'll be weary, and at that time, yes you may have jumped to conclusions, which is probably why today, in the United States army anyways, you cannot fire unless you feel your life is in danger, and just because they look like the bad guys doesn't mean they are. They didn't commit mass genocide because they might have met a few bad tribes. They hunted the Taino's purely for sport, that has nothing to do with the savage Native's, if they were truly scared, they would have killed them in defense, not for sport.

Cause then it might not really be who you are...? I mean if you say you want to be gay, but you are actually straight by nature.... you won't actually be satisfied. Its like making yourself something you're not. So why would someone choose to be something they're not and something they don't enjoy? I could choose to be gay, sure. But the fact I'm not attracted to males or turned on in any manner would in fact turn me off of being gay, right?

Of course there were savage Native Americans, however, saying that since there were savage Native Americans so that justifies what he did is hardly acceptable. If they were attacked, that's perfectly fine to kill them, but hunting the Taino people for sport? That's where it goes unjust. I believe I stated that in my OP? If I didn't, I meant to. Yes, South Dakota recognizes Native American Day, that doesn't mean all the people do. That same teacher was fired a few years later for being racist against the Native American students.

I haven't read the past comment, just the one you quoted to me, and it sounded like you were against gays (my apologies, however the comment made me laugh). The atheist comment was thrown in there to show a similarity. You say some are raised that way, and thus won't change their views. I was raised one way and changed my view, so blaming it on one's parents isn't really a valid argument on their part.

Lol back when I was in 8th grade, my Geography teacher, as an assignment, decided to make us write an essay on why we had no school due to Columbus Day...the next day, he said he didn't get one essay on Columbus Day, instead he got many essays on Native American Day, and how Columbus shouldn't be revered...in 8th grade this happened! I've been fighting the name ever since.

But it's not the same. That's not how it works, if you are living in an accepting community that's how it will look. But since I've grown up around a homophobic mini community (Though actually my general quad city area is accepting, my little "cul-de-sac" was not), but was taught since I was a child Homosexuality was a disgusting perversion it literally does become a jihad. My mom and dad could never just say "oh well we don't like it, so but we don't want our opinions affecting other people..." No, they honest to God think Homosexuality is what causes the Earth quakes in CA, Katrina, all the [cabbage] in the world. They literally blame on the gays. So basically you're refusing to open your mind to different views and cultures? You're intentionally keeping a closed mind on the subject? I was raised a Catholic, yet here I am, an Atheist.

I never said anything about the United States, the Native Americans were all over North and South America, "United States" had nothing to do with where he landed, the point of the United States in this was that it shouldn't be a Columbus Day. And he actually did. He ordered his men to kill and enslave many. He wrote in his diary "They should be good servants .... I, our Lord being pleased, will take hence, at the time of my departure, six natives for your Highnesses." Which shows his intentions weren't good for the Native Americans. Within a four year period, Columbus killed nearly 4 million Native's in San Salvador, and it didn't stop there. Bartolome de Las Casas recorded this himself.

I agree that video could have been made differently. The kids swearing might have been a little extreme, however, I do agree with them. If you don't like gay marriage, don't marry the same sex! People didn't like interracial marriage back in the day, look at it now. I support gay marriage's completely, even though I'm completely straight. Now, the Don't Ask Don't Tell military policy is a little different, because the males are separated from the females in sleeping quarters. If you allow gay's to be open in the military, it's just like making the sleeping bays co-ed. So I would like to keep the DADT policy in-place, however, gay marriages are perfectly fine.

Well there's no way to tell if the world would have been better without that voyage. However, you can't really think he was the ONLY one who would have made that trip. There's always radicals, he just happened to be that guy who took the first step, I'm almost positive someone else would have had Columbus not. And the point remains, what did he do to deserve a nationally recognized holiday? He didn't discover anything, he didn't do the Native's any good, what did he do to deserve a day? Got confused, ended up in the wrong place, committed heinous crimes?