Grim_

On a note about the squire thing; To actually use it you have to have at least the trial version of the d&d character generator it would seem. I am looking for a way to manually input values into it however...

Okay so scrap the loss of powers and add the familiar to the chopping block? Also the two to three spell slots for each school of magic you had (reserved) would essentially rid most of the confusion (you just have to write down your spell book on a .txt document or whatever). But I get your point on how there's no real reason to put it in (aside from general dissatisfaction with the wizard spellbook currently [mostly due to lack of customization]). Or if you wanted to further prohibit the power of the wizard you could have them choose 2-3 of the schools to cast from (and have all others prohibited). But I get your point and will drop the subject (for now) after putting out my two cents.

Well first off you have to give up the entirety of the 4e spell book (kinda expected) as well as the at will powers (again expected) You would have to sacrifice a feat or two just to gain the ability to cast the daily spells. Furthermore you would automatically prohibit one spellbook (possibly divination?) without using any of the focused builds. Then you could only use 2-3 (possibly depending upon your intelligence modifier?) of the spell slots per spellbook per level. Another posibility is that you also have to give up your familiar to access the spells. Finally you also lose any access you had to rituals (and the ability to gain access to them). EDIT: Another possibility is to have the negatives of the race you are using (if there are any[note using the 3.5e negatives]) multiplied x2 or the positives cut in half.

Is anyone intersted in my idea for how to balance out the use of spells for the wizard? (Whilst using the 3.5e spells) EDIT: To be more clear my idea about how to use some of the 3.5e spells for the wizard (and possibly other classes as well [but I would have to check them with more detail])

Just as a general warning; STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ALL DRAGONS IN 4e. THEY ALL NOW HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE EVIL (granted it's less likely for... for instance a silver dragon but whatever) AND HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE GOOD AS WELL (this means that it might not have been a good idea to slaughter the white dragon wyrmling).

I'm a barbarian (and that's all I think has been set up).

As fair warning the pathguy site took quite some time for me to load (using a decent laptop with chrome). Also icu why don't you look into warlord (if that is an option) or possibly some other class that has healing abilities (from what I remember from reading the warlord also has some buffs/debuffs) EDIT: Download the trial of this earth http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Tool.aspx?x=dnd/4new/tool/characterbuilder

(Actually around 300 pages per [and there are three of 'em [i only posted two however]]) Also you really only need to read the relevant sections for the class that you are choosing (and the class that you will come back from if/when you die)

@Retech; Not that I know of (granted I have not really looked). However if you are willing to use... less than reputable ways of getting the rules I could direct you in the right (or wrong depending upon how you look at it) direction.

Sorry earth but (at least for now [i have some ideas about how to balance out a limited 3.5 spell range in 4e [thus creating the 3.875 abomination] which I will not get into]) you need to go by the books for your character (the two that ross allows me to release) EDIT: Let me upload the power cards I have! EDIT EDIT: Looks like I am missing some of them and holy [cabbage] the incomplete folder is around 200 mbs

Read through the benefits carefully (or hell just do what sounds freaking cool [kinda what I did]) :P (Like did you know that according to my level one power [macetail's rage] I get temporary hitpoints whenever I hit something in rage mode?)

Yeah from what I have seen (been trolling reading through /tg/) death is a definite part of the D&D experience (hell I worked in several ways for me to come back when my idiot barbarian bites the dust)

And now my character is bound to do that at least once in the story :P (Though if I die I will just come back as his long lost [ex] slave brother)

Retech I believe we are starting at level 3. I guess you can either use the point buy method (for regular results) or the more lulzy method (a dice roll[only once though]) EDIT: Possibly good with evil tendencies? or Evil with Good tendencies?

On a completely unrelated note the wizards of the coast character builder trial works for characters up to level three! (Also Ross do you have any idea as to what setting the campaign will be?)

A proposition to Italia is sent to extend two trade routes through our respective nations. (one over sea and one over land)

I just completed my character sheet (and so can you![i found an online character generator]) [hide]Urg Shedinn Male Dragonborn Barbarian Level 3 Unaligned (Chaotic) Representing Grim Strength 18 (+4) Constitution 15 (+2) Dexterity 14 (+2) Intelligence 10 (+0) Wisdom 9 (-1) Charisma 16 (+3) Height: 6' 8" Weight: 300 lb Scales: Black Eyes: Green Hair: None Maximum Hit Points: 42 Bloodied: 21 Surge Value: 12 [includes draconic heritage] Surges / Day: 10 [includes constitution modifier] Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Normal Initiative: 1d20 +3 = 1 [half level] + 2 [dexterity] Base Strength Attack: 1d20 +5 = + 1 [half level] + 4 [strength] Base Dexterity Attack: 1d20 +3 = + 1 [half level] + 2 [dexterity] Base Constitution Attack: 1d20 +3 = + 1 [half level] + 2 [constitution] Base Intelligence Attack: 1d20 +1 = + 1 [half level] + 0 [intelligence] Base Wisdom Attack: 1d20 +0 = + 1 [half level]-1 [wisdom] Base Charisma Attack: 1d20 +4 = + 1 [half level] + 3 [charisma] Armor Class: 18 = 10 + 1 [half level] + 2 [dexterity] + 1 [barbarian agility] + 3 [hide] + 1 [if carrying light shield] Fortitude Defense: 17 = 10 + 1 [half level] + 2 [barbarian] + 4 [strength] Reflex Defense: 15 = 10 + 1 [half level] + 2 [dexterity] + 1 [if carrying light shield] + 1 [barbarian agility] Will Defense: 14 = 10 + 1 [half level] + 3 [charisma] Armor: Hide (25 lb) Shield: Small (6 lb) Attacks: Unarmed Melee: +5 [base strength attack] vs AC; damage 1[W]=1d4+4 [strength bonus] Battleaxev: +7 vs AC [+5 strength attack] [+2 proficiency]; damage 1[W]=1d10+4 [strength bonus] 6 lb (Axe) versatile Shortbow: +5 vs AC [+3 dexterity attack] [+2 proficiency]; damage 1[W]=1d8+2 [dexterity bonus] range 15/30 2 lb (Bow) Load free, small Dragon Breath +5 [base dexterity attack + 2] vs reflex; damage1d6+2 [constitution] Pressing Strike +5w [base strength attack] vs AC Recuperating Strike [see online revision] +5w [base strength attack] vs AC Avalanche Strike +5w [base strength attack] vs AC Macetail's Rage +5w [base strength attack] vs. reflex Shatter Bone Strike +5w [base AC attack] vs AC v Versatile weapon. Add +1 to damage if using two-handed. w Weapon-based power. Apply adjustments for proficiency, situation, feats, magic, etc. Base Saving Throw: d20 vs 10 Encumberance 4e Normal Load: Heavy Load: Maximum Drag Load 180 lb. 360 lb. 900 lb. Encumberance 3.5 Light load: Medium load: Heavy load: Lift over head: Lift off ground: Push or drag: 100 lb. or less 101-200 lb. 201-300 lb. 300 lb. 600 lb. 1500 lb. Languages: Common; Draconic; Rituals Known: Skills: Acrobatics: +7 = 2 [dexterity] + 1 [half level] + 5 [class training]-1 [armor] Arcana: +1 = 0 [intelligence] + 1 [half level] Athletics: +9 = 4 [strength] + 1 [half level] + 5 [class training]-1 [armor] Bluff: +4 = 3 [charisma] + 1 [half level] Diplomacy: +4 = 3 [charisma] + 1 [half level] Dungeoneering: +0 = -1 [wisdom] + 1 [half level] Endurance: +2 = 2 [constitution] + 1 [half level]-1 [armor] Heal: +0 = -1 [wisdom] + 1 [half level] History: +3 = 0 [intelligence] + 1 [half level] + 2 [Dragonborn] Insight: +0 = -1 [wisdom] + 1 [half level] Intimidate: +6 = 3 [charisma] + 1 [half level] + 2 [Dragonborn] Nature: +0 = -1 [wisdom] + 1 [half level] Perception: +5 = -1 [wisdom] + 1 [half level] + 5 [class training] Religion: +1 = 0 [intelligence] + 1 [half level] Stealth: +2 = 2 [dexterity] + 1 [half level]-1 [armor] Streetwise: +4 = 3 [charisma] + 1 [half level] Thievery: +2 = 2 [dexterity] + 1 [half level]-1 [armor] Feats: Shield Proficiency -- Light Weapon Proficiency -- Shortbow At-Will: Basic Melee Attack: By weapon, damage 1[W]+4 [strength bonus] [standard action] Basic Ranged Attack: By weapon, damage 1[W]+2 [dexterity bonus] [standard action] Bull Rush: +5 [base strength attack] vs fortitude [standard action] Grab: +5 [base strength attack] vs reflex [standard action] Move grabbed target: +5 [base strength attack] vs fortitude [standard action] Escape: +7 [acrobatics] vs reflex / +9 [athletics] vs fortitude [move action] Pressing Strike [Level 1] Recuperating Strike [Level 1] [see online revision] Other Standard Actions: Administer a potion; Aid another [see online revision] ; Charge [+1 to basic melee attack or bull rush]; Coup de grace; Equip / stow shield; Ready an action; Total defense; Sustain standard action; Some skills during combat (i.e., Acrobatics -- fast escape; Bluff, Heal -- first aid (use second wind DC10, stabilize the dying DC15, grant a saving throw DC15), Intimidate, Thievery depending on circumstances); Other Move Actions: Crawl; Run [speed 8]; Stand up; Shift; Squeeze; Walk; may include some skills during combat (i.e., Acrobatics, Athletics); half of a Double Move (if taken in place of a standard action) Other Minor Actions: Draw / sheathe weapon; Drink a potion; Drop prone; Load a crossbow; Open / close a door; Pick up an item; Retrieve / stow an item; Perception -- active (as per revision), Sustain minor action; Some skills during combat (i.e., Insight) Other Immediate Action: Readied action Other Opportunity Action: Opportunity attack Other Free Actions: Drop held items; End a grab; Talk Other Non-Actions: Delay; Endurance checks; Insight to counter Bluff; Knowledge checks; Perception -- passive Short rest: Healing surges as available Five minutes: Normal escape from restraints (Acrobatics) One hour: Forage; Streetwise check Encounter Powers: Second Wind Spend an Action Point [free action, not in surprise round] Dragon Breath, Acid [Dragonborn][minor action] Swift Charge [free action] Avalanche Strike [Level 1] Shatter Bone Strike [Level 3] Daily Powers: Macetail's Rage [Level 1] Primal Vitality [Level 2 Utility][minor action] Dragonborn +2 Strength, +2 Charisma (already included) +2 History, +2 Intimidate Dragonborn Fury (when bloodied, +1 on attacks) Dragonborn Heritage (healing surge includes constitution bonus) Dragon Breath Barbarian This barbarian chose the Rageblood Vigor feral might option. Barbarian Agility Rage Rampage Urg Shedinn 's Equipment: 39 lb 9 lb 2 lb 5 lb 3 lb 2 lb 40 lb 4 lb 2 lb 5 lb 1 lb 10 lb 10 lb 4 lb 4 lb 1 lb _____ 141 lb Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above) Arrows (quiver of 30) x3 Backpack Bedroll Blanket, winter x1 Chain (10 feet) x1 Firewood (1 day) x2 Flint and steel Grappling hook Hammer Pitons x10 Pouch (belt) x1 Rations (1 day) x10 Rope (50', silk) x2 Sunrods x4 Waterskins x1 Whetstone Total Magic items: Weapon: Weapon: Weapon: Weapon: Armor: Shield: Arms: Feet: Hands: Head: Neck: Ring: Ring: Waist: Resistances: Action Point Tally: Daily Item Powers Per Day: Heroic Tier Milestones: / / / Death Saving Throw Failures: More about Urg Shedinn : Urg Shedinn comes from a long line of barbarians (started after the fall of the Dragonborn Empire). However this all came to naught when a group of tiefling warlocks slaughtered almost his entire tribe (excluding himself and his brother [the brother was taken into slavery]). After a time of wandering he came across a mercenary company and with nothing better to do joined up. It should be noted that he received no formal education and is not the most intelligent of people. Another note about his character is that his tribe worshiped both the mace tail and the holy ferret. [/hide] http://www.pathguy.com/cg4.htm

Hm I think I will go for a mildly insane barbarian this round (at least until he get's killed and I have to create a new character :P) EDIT: Are we using a point buy system for getting stats or what?

By the looks of it (let me check the third player's handbook) drow are not a PC race in 4e yet (also from what I have seen they replaced prestige classes with paragon paths and epic destinies <.<)

Eh not all too much (just wasn't quite as descriptive [but a bit after I posted that I realized that some decent rping could cover the gap]) at any rate here (should be) the file; http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=03710324941320397730

Ah thanks (and thanks again the classes were the more interesting bits of it) I will upload it shortly. On a completely un related note I am trying to find a working character generation tool for 4e (once I find it I should be able to upload it as well [possibly in .zip or rar format)

Well then; has everyone who wants to play read through the core rules?(If ross doesn't mind I could upload the non psionic second rulebook [adds a couple of primal divine and arcane classes [as well as some races]]). Also any chance we could use the old 3.5e alignment system (at least for PC's)?

On a completely un-related (and vaguely racist) note;

On a completely un related note; here is some humor! No 4chan ~Stevepole