Kirbyallstar
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Posts posted by Kirbyallstar
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True, but calculating the efficiency of potion drinking is difficult to map out. It depends on what you are killing, how fast you can kill them, and how often you re-pot. If you truly wanted efficiency, you would pot every minute like at frost dragons. I mean, keeping your stats boosted to the max will result in more kills per hour right? Surely the price of the bones pays off the cost of the pots right? That's why I didn't want to speak about efficiency. There are too many factors to keep track of.
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TBH, i didn't mean for this to be an efficiency thread lol. I just wanted to point out that extremes can be cheaper than normals purely based on the GE values of buying and making them.
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Wow I've never seen that, and I use imp boxes a lot. Does it happen more when you're being attacked? If so, I'd be weary pking with my chaotic cbow now. I was planning on using imp boxes to bank it after every kill, but now I'm not so sure.
But ya, I've used tons and tons of imp boxes, because I don't summon. And that has never happened to me.
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They won't work anyways, I think you need to have both your hands open to catch the ball. You also need aid on.
Another method for gaining EP is using Imp Boxes or a Yak. You simply send your risked item to the bank (although the imp may fail, so you must spam click).
How does the imp fail? All you need to do is use the item with the imp box, right?
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I feel if we were to just allow people or begin to promote these kind of threads into the RS general discussion it would have to be introduced by a member of the staff to ensure that it won't get over run by spam and if that is the route that we want to take we can see how popular these become and then come back and reevaluate a possible subforum? That way people will become more familiar with what a tidbit post should look like. I would like to eventually see a subforum though, I feel these could be very useful for the community.
If you look at the Tips forum in Zybez, there's a lot of locked posts because of spam. It's because the posters keep doing the same thing, they either post a tip that someone else already posted, or they post a tip that Jagex already talked about in recent updates.
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Wow. Just wow. I had the most interesting steels trip.
At first I was like: Ooo, lvl 4 clue?!?!
But then I was like:
Then immediately after that I get:
After a while I get:
Which was funny because they were the same clue
And then to top it all off, immediately the next kill I get this:
I feel like I should 1 UP this guy
http://forum.tip.it/topic/275138-doing-2-elite-clue-scrolls-at-once/
:shades:
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It might just be me, but I do not see people using extreme range for general training purpose. They broke their bank getting extremes, so they mostly use extremes solely for bossing to make that money back. They think that since training herblore is so expensive, extremes must be equally expensive and would choose normal potions to train with.
What's the alternative? Let them sit in the bank??? Several thousands of extreme pots sitting in the bank because they were expensive to make?
You have it all wrong. Once they are made they have no internal value anymore. I use extreme pots for everything. Since they are worth exactly nothing. They are the cheapest level boosts there are for me, since I can't sell them and I have a supply that will last me a lifetime no matter what I do.
You should see me use recover specials. You might think it bothers me to drink them every 30 seconds. How much money is that down the drain? Absolutely nothing. I already made them. Can't sell them. Can just as well use them.
Ya, I was mistaken. My b, coach.
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I am fairly certain that void does increase the damage that the cannon does. At least from what I have seen, it does.
Are you talking max damage or DPS or how often you hit (accuracy)? Because like others have already stated the cannon has a max it can hit - 300.
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Another reason your calculations are meaningless is that they don't mimic real situations- the people that use potions usually pot every 5-8 minutes, not every time they go down to level-x.
If you apply that "potting every 5-8 minutes" to normal range potions then you are doing exactly what I stated already. Every minute equals 1 boosted level. So say if you pot every let's say 7 minutes, you pot after your stats have dropped 7 levels, which makes your range 105/99. This is exactly what I've been saying the whole time, so I don't know where you keep going with this.
And if you want me to apply this to extremes, I'm just saying that potting every 17 minutes will make extremes cheaper than if you pot every 5-8 minutes. This can also be seen in my original post. L
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Thanks for the responses so far.
Does anyone have a champ-less build that does fine in general and vs 3champ?
TBH, you can't kill a champ w/o any champs yourself.
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How ever much you want to believe it, i haven't heard of anyone who can use extremes not use them for training- realistically extremes are meant for training while overloads are usually used for bossing. Anyone bossing with extremes isn't even a top end player these days and will likely get crashed. This topic is as bad and obvious as the whip>blablabla thread where the guy finds out something everyone already knew, only that the information had expired while the guy made the observations(overloads are the best potions for near everything nowadays).
Morionic, i wouldn't spend my time calculation something completely irrelevant. I understand if he did the calculations to show that getting extremes and using them is more efficient than using normal range potions, but right not, he just proved that if you have 92, you should use BETTER potions because they are BETTER, which is obvious.
Obviously better potions are better, but that's not what I'm proving. I'm proving that the better potions are also CHEAPER. Not many people stop to think to use extremes when training; they go for the cheaper, easily accessible option. They think that the cost of making extremes outweighs the benefits it provides by having 10 extra range levels. I haven't seen a help thread asking what potion, ext or regular, to use when training because they think regulars are cheaper.
What? I don't know a single person with extremes who doesn't use them (or overloads) in all non-PVP situations.
Nvm, I guess you're right. That's why I said, "maybe it's just me." Nevertheless, I'm showing that extremes are also cheaper in addition to being obviously stronger.
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DOUBLE RAINBOW OH MY GOD!!!!
This, tbh.
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You really shouldn't be repotting at 105 for both normal ranging potions AND extremes. Like Zaaps said, it should be 5 to 10 minutes.
It might just be me, but I do not see people using extreme range for general training purpose. They broke their bank getting extremes, so they mostly use extremes solely for bossing to make that money back. They think that since training herblore is so expensive, extremes must be equally expensive and would choose normal potions to train with.
Also, like I stated in the disclaimer, "This also only applies if you repot at the same point as you would repot with a normal potion." That is the only point I'm trying to prove.
Well if you want to prove anything then really, normal range potions can be used with level 1 herblore, but extremes need 92 herbore, thus extremes are much, much worse. Your test it totally out of context as it ignores the requirements.
People with 92 herblore can still train; just because you have a high herblore level doesn't mean you are automatically maxed. Training can be applied to slayer or making money by camping a certain monster like abby demons or metal drags.
Also you are not showing their effectiveness in terms of 122 range being tons better than 112 range, thus allowing for more kills and more xp and money made.
Please read the whole post before posting. Near the end I wrote:
"However, this is negated by the huge range bonus you receive by using ext. range, which leads to more kills per hour which equals more gp per hour."
and
"Don't forget the extra range levels will bring in more kills, which is more gp per hour."
Obviously a bigger level boost is better than a smaller one.
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Actually, most people tend to repot at 5 minutes. That's typically the convention, although some will repot at 10 minutes, I don't know of a lot of people who repot at halfway.
Well if you were to repot after 5 mins, that actually makes ext < reg range. By repotting after 5 mins or 5 levels, you would repot at 107/99. That gives you 5 mins per reg. range dose and 15 mins per ext. range. That means 1 ext range dose = 3 reg. range dose. 3880 < 4422, which means even face value extreme range is cheaper than normal range pots.
Anyone with the level to use any of the extremes(well, not magic because of how it works, but all the others) not using them is mad, no real discussion value here, as your calculations completely ignore the added effectiveness the extreme pots give. Realistically, if you've got the level and value herblore xp, overloads are always the best potions to use.
If I could redirect you to this:
http://forum.tip.it/topic/277382-creation-of-the-tidbits-forum/page__pid__4512838#entry4512838
I know my topic has no discussion value at all, but there's no where else to post this information. At least I'm trying to get other people to respond. And how am I ignoring the effectiveness when I'm showing how effective they are?
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Disclaimer: This only applies to ranging potions because I haven't tried it with any others. This also only applies if you repot at the same point as you would repot with a normal potion. This has nothing to do with bossing because you repot there more constantly. All numbers calculated are rounded down.
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I don't think this has discussion value, but I'd like to just share some information I found. Basically I just want to show that using ext. range pots is cheaper to train with than reg. range pots. At 99 range, the boosts will be 112, and 122. Most people repot their reg. range pots at about the halfway point, at 105/99. If you apply that same number, repotting at 105, then ext. range is cheaper.
By repotting at 105, reg. range will last 7 lvls, or 7 mins. Ext. range will last 17 lvls, or 17 mins. That means you will use an ext. range dose every 2.4 reg. range (17 divided by 7). For ext. range to be worth it, it must cost less than, or equal to 2.4 reg. range pots.
Current prices of yesterday, 9/19/10 (GE updated 5 mins ago lolz):
Ext. range = (price of range (3) + [5*grenwalls]
4422+[5*1444]=11,642 (3 doses of ext range)
Reg. range= 4422 (3 doses)
1474 (1 dose)
1 dose of ext range must be less than 2.4 doses of reg. range
ext range 1 dose = 11642 divided by 3
ext range 1 dose = 3880 gp
2.4 doses of reg range = 1474 times 2.4
2.4 doses of reg range = 3537 gp
By that logic, an ext range dose is only ~300 gp more expensive than regular range doses. That is 300 gp every 17 mins, which is about 1k an hour. Surely everyone can afford an extra 1k an hour. However, this is negated by the huge range bonus you receive by using ext. range, which leads to more kills per hour which equals more gp per hour.
Thus, if you apply the same concept at potting at 105/99, extreme range pots will ultimately be cheaper to train with than regular range pots. This can be applied to slayer or camping, but not necessarily bossing.
End notes: Of course, this math is influenced by current GE prices. Just because yesterday an ext. range dose was more expensive than 2.4 range doses, it doesn't mean you should look at it as extremes being more expensive. Don't forget the extra range levels will bring in more kills, which is more gp per hour. Also based on GE prices, extremes *could* be cheaper than normals in face value.
Agree? Disagree? When you pot, what's that point where you repot?
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I'm getting really tired of 3champ users. What sorts of builds are good in general but consistent at beating 3champ from a player of the same skill level? Thanks!
I did conquest all day for the first time yesterday and was a 3champ user for a while. I found that I was beat with long range attacks. They would use archers to take down my health. They would lure me into the range of their champ and take me down.
IMO, use at least 2 champs and 1 archer. I don't have much experience in conquest but I've played other turn-based strategy games. Use the archer to whittle down their champs health, while retreating backwards towards ur champs. When you have charge + battle cry, take down one of their champs. Your other commands are up to you.
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Without the exact contents of the post it's hard to tell. Something like that sounds like it'd belong in help and advice over guides though, maybe even general discussion so people could discuss why they do/don't use them etc.
It is hard without there being a clearly defined place to put such a topic but doing so could take away from other parts of the forum. But for that either general discussion or H&A, whatever you think it'd be best in really.
Well like you and I said, there's no real place for me to put this. I mean, you can't really discuss this at all. All you can say is "Woah, that's cool, I never thought about that", or "you're wrong, because your math is wrong". I believe general discussion is there to express your thoughts, opinions, and beliefs. My tip has no room for them, it's just math.
I also think it doesn't belong in H&A either. "Whether you need help or are offering help, all questions belong here." That forum is only for questions, or answering other people's questions. My tip isn't advice either, I'm not telling you whether one thing is better/faster than the other because you asked a question on efficiency. But if you "truly" believe I should post it in general discussion, let me know and I'll do it.
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Actually, lots of those topics do have a place on our forums, either as a guide or in Help & Advice and maybe even general discussion (something like the Bork worth your time thing could make a good topic). Help and advice isn't just for asking for help, it's for providing advice too.
There is nothing wrong with posting such topics and I'd actually support a lot of topics like those. Although I do agree there's nowhere clearly defined for things like that, but posting it as guides would probably be your best bet. If it's more than just a couple of lines.
Well, my "idea" about ext. range isn't showing how to do something, it's just math and data to show something overlooked. Would the math still be worthy of being called a guide? If so, I'll leave my thread and go post my idea in the guides section.
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Common sense? You knew that you can save 10 seconds when switching worlds? You knew that when selecting an 3-letter code in the fairy rings that spamming the teleport button will allow you to save 1-3 seconds of the dials rotating? Where are the guides for this? Where is the information? I certainly did not know this. Can you even call 2 sentences a guide?
And show me the guide showing proof that ext. range pots are cheaper than reg. range pots. I'm sure not everyone has thought/realized this.
And if people didn't know them, they'd ask.
...that people look for to answer their questions. >_<'
How are you able to ask questions when you are oblivious that that sort of thing is even possible? How can you ask "hey, how can I save time when using fairy rings?" when you don't even know that it's possible in the first place?
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This has nothing to do with efficiency, training, questing, or any of that. If you're so adamant about post count then don't give any. This is just about sharing information. I'll give examples from Zybez that I found interesting:
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1415242-is-bork-really-worth-your-time/ (Is bork worth your time)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1363427-an-alternative-to-robins/ (alternative to robin hats)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1388342-how-to-incorporate-skilling-and-pking/ (incorporating skilling and pking)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1423657-pvp-welfare-tip/ (use frog leather boots instead of snakeskin boots)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1425635-something-i-bet-you-didnt-know/ (Void + Barrows Gloves provides a better Strength bonus than max strength)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1387306-dag-kings-claws-of-guthix-vs-staff-of-light-fire-surge/ (DKs - CoG vs SOL fire surge)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1426577-another-item-to-pick-up-during-76king/ (another item to pick up during 76king)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1425703-better-than-arma-helm/ (Better than arma helm: morrigan coifs, alching after ~55 mins)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1421088-logging-in-quicker/ (logging in quicker)
http://forums.zybez.net/topic/1418199-saving-an-inventory-space-for-godwars/ (use god arrows in GWD)
As you can see, all of these are information that I bet you didn't know. None of these are as lengthy as a full-on guide. None of these are asking questions and need to be placed in H&A. None of these have explicit discussion value other than "I liked/disliked it". None of these state, "Oh, this is how you train this skill!" And none of these currently have any place in the Tip.It forums.
So, like I ask again, where can I put my information about how ext. range is cheaper than regular range pots?
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Well to be honest, I like to read Zybez's tips. Some of them are actually useful. I object plagiarism, so I don't condone taking credit for using someone else's ideas. There is a way to tell who posted what first: check the post dates.
You don't actively seek the information. I'd be curious to see what other people have found out, so I look in Zybez's tips form. Woah, some new information I didn't know! That's useful to me. New information like this doesn't belong in H&A because you aren't asking any questions, nor are you giving any answers. They're more of a "did you know?" type comments. It basically is information that the general population isn't aware of.
So where would I put my information then, about "how extreme range pots can be cheaper than regular range pots"? Currently I have no idea where to post it.
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I got an idea for a new forum: Tidbits. This will function just like Zybez's Tips Forum. Here you can post little pieces of information. These "tips" aren't detailed enough to be a guide, and not really enough to be in general discussion. It's basically a place to put interesting ideas or things most people don't know.
To post a tidbit you must include a poll to gauge how others liked the tidbit. Zybez has likes/dislikes thumbs, but we can use polls. The poll format must look like this:
Question: Did you enjoy this tidbit?
Choice 1: Yes
Choice 2: No
All polls must be made public.
Rules in this forum:
You cannot post things from Jagex's recent updates, or "In other news...". You cannot copy a tip from Zybez and post it here; be creative and come up with your own tidbit instead of stealing another person's tip from Zybez.
To create better relationships with other fan sites, there could be a stickied thread labeled "Tidbits from other fan sites". Here on the first post lists useful tips that have been posted on other sites, such as Zybez. Forum members can discuss how useful these tips from other sites are and can suggest new tips to be added to the first post.
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I think a forum like this could either be it's own forum, or be a subforum of Help & Advice or Archive of Wisdom. For example, I have an idea about how using extreme range pots can be cheaper than using regular range pots. Unfortunately, there is no where for me to put it at the moment. My information isn't really enough for it to be generally discussed, it isn't teaching someone how to do something so it isn't a guide, and I'm not asking for help so it doesn't belong in H&A.
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Grimy calculated that void + acp always has more dps than full arma, assuming all the other ranged gear is maxed.
So no matter what the monster's def might be and no matter what your accuracy is against that monster it's always better to use the deflector + acp? Thanks, I guess my question has been answered. :shades:
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Let people play however they want, it's none of your business.
True haha.
[spoiler=at first I was like:]
[spoiler=but then I was like:]
Son of a [bleep]. Oh well, time to get that rigour :rolleyes:
Ammo Bind
in Help and Advice
Posted
Do you know how hard smithing arrows are? You have to find the ore/buy the ore. You have to find branches/buy branches. You have to buy feathers. You have to have the fletching + smithing levels, IN ADDITION to the woodcutting and mining levels if you choose to DIY. Not only that, but you have to acquire the right amount of ore and branches. I doubt you can range properly with 1 zeph ore that you managed to find.
Nonetheless, I say bind runes (bloods). Alching arrows has been nerfed, and there's only a handful of bosses where ranging would be quicker than melee. Plus, these are usually found in lower floors, not occult floors (except the Necrolord. But this is where your runes come in :shades: ) Only bind arrows if you are a ranger.