koaala

If mods were educated enough(they actually played, no problem with that having atleast one highly educated mod on H&A) and worked swiftly enough in these situations, there really wouldn't be problems with this scenario other than people being outraged about being wrong, but that is something people need to learn. Option 4 is actually best because it's most friendly for the OP- they won't even see the incorrect advice, thus there not being any confusion.

They are wrong because they are ignorant or stupid, that's the whole point. H&A isn't a metagame discussion board and shouldn't considered to be. Everyone can't always explain everything, but there is alot of knowledge that is accepted in groups and considered not to be worth explaining. If someone asks what ring style to use with a hex, you say sniper, and report anyone who says desperado. No-one is asking for a meta-game discussion. You just have 3 outcomes for wrong advice: 1) post your advice without any extra comment; op is no better off they dunno which advice is right. 2) flame the person who has it wrong and post your advice; probably start a flame war and op still has no way to see which advice is right. 3) post your advice and v. briefly note that the other advice is wrong because...; oh look the op has their advice as one set has justified why it is right and unless reasonably challenged (which I suppose culd drift into meta-game discussion slightly) its done and dusted. In most cases it doesn't even take a lot to justify since you will known where the fact is that proves your advice and can easily drop a url or quote or the logic behind it. And Obtaurian I have never tried to argue my personal experience as proof; I have posted it yes and note it as such and its only become argued when others insist THEIR personal experience some how proves mine wrong. Or 4) Post your advice, say someone elses advice is incorrect, report their advice. Mods delete the incorrect advice. Everybody is happy. :thumbsup:

They are wrong because they are ignorant or stupid, that's the whole point. H&A isn't a metagame discussion board and shouldn't considered to be. Everyone can't always explain everything, but there is alot of knowledge that is accepted in groups and considered not to be worth explaining. If someone asks what ring style to use with a hex, you say sniper, and report anyone who says desperado.

H&A, as said earlier, isn't really about explaining knowledge of the game, rather giving advice. Explanations would belong to the metagame(which we don't yet have) forum. Blatant stupidity and ignorance go under the trolling/flaming rule, so it's completely ok to say you are wrong, give the right answer and report your post for flaming trolling. That's why i say giving bad advice is what really matters, not the good advice.

I really loved you defending the artisan workshow up until you realised(after a long process of yur stubbornness) that you'd need to make 15m an hour for it to be any good. Personal experience and memories really aren't enough to give good advice, you need to educate yourself and keep your eyes open, if you aren't sure about something, DON'T, for the love of god, post your advice. It's evident that everyone can't know everything, and people being ignorant is where alot of the flamewars start. You don't need to be perfect, just perfect about the advice you give. Anyone can give good advice, the goal is to give the least amout of bad advice.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thing is, you don't even need to ask people to leave over there. Just get 20 or so people to say they don't like that person, the admins get to kick 'em out. Handy right? It's a foolproof system designed to stop people getting banned for no reason. Why don't they leave? Contrary to belief of some people here, they aren't as replacable and the administration holds strong intrest in keeping them here, so it comes as no surprise that it was 100% efficiency crowd who was asked to help with guides on the main page, and 0% from any of the anti efficiency people.... Being opposed to efficiency doesn't hold any talents or make you special, while efficiency does. Sy, i've seen you time and again be very adamant about things you've been wrong about, and each and every time it turns into a flamewar. If you do not have the knowledge it's obvious that you'd be advised not to post- people on the H&A aren't nannies and it's obvious that there will be tentions when someone is being ignorant. As to what dire said, saying he trolls people who don't explain give advice(which isn't nessesary) is just saying he breaks the rules. People on the H&A aren't your slaves, and if anything, they should earn the respect of what a teacher gets.

I think most of the accusations and negative attitude on this thread comes out of spite and shows how low part of the commuity can go. Most have absolutely no idea about what people got banned for, and if even TIF administrators say multiple bans were for bogus reasons, it really shows why the efficiency crowd can't exist peacefully on these forums- moderation turns a blind eye to vengeful insults on this thread, but contributing users get banned for basically nothing. There are people who got banned and had absolutely no relation to what happent later, and those users still get ridiculed, and judging by the blank letters sent out, even high TIF administration has no idea about who did what, so it's highly offensive to accuse anyone at this point. This situation had nothing to do with what you said in your post. Great job on missing the point entirely and yet again showing a large portion of users in negative light. You are very good at it. The efficiency community has already made extensive proposals on how to improve the H&A and Peter of TIF administration has said they are working on impementing them, so you are in no way the first who is trying to improve something. As for your attitude in H&A, if you are COMPLETELY in the wrong, you will still argue for your point until the other person proves everything about your advice wrong, and after they've done that, you walk away without saying sorring for giving terrible advice or anything. If anything, your way of argueing until the horse is dead and never admitting you can be wrong is very much unhelpful for H&A. I don't see what explaining things and giving advice has in common. As far as i can tell, if you are in the posession of the knowledge, simply stating what would be best is more than enough. Discussions about why would be part of the metagame forums. There is never a need to be an ass if someone just follows trough and gives blank advice, as that is ultimately the goal. I think it's more than fair to say that you are an extremely offensive person when asking for advice and are very slow to pick up new things. I will definitely wish TIF good luck on replacing the crowd, as i know it won't be easy(particularly if DGS leaves or even stops catering for TIF).

That is a bogus accusation. I'd really love to see the proof that people that were wrongfully banned were behind any of this further rulebreaking. That part of your post is very much insensible flame and shows you are as much in the wrong here as anyone. Weather you want to believe it or not, the backlash came from the community, so it really shows that there are people who genuinly care. I doubt being friendly towards everything is what alot of the people here look for and really wouldn't make tif in any way special.

Only on TIF would users get banned for not being unpopular among moderators. If such a community is fine by any of you, enjoy it while it lasts(as i'm hopeful there will be changes around here in the coming days). As for all that transpired, if even administrators(yes, multiple) say the bans that caused all this backlash were unwarranted, there isn't much to argue about who or what was wrong in the situation. To clarify this, I don't think ancient had anything to do with the spamming and i went to sleep hours before any of this even happent and woke up not knowing anything about it, thus it's fair to say that atleast the community is active and insightful enough to tell right from wrong and fight for those who no longer can themselves. If mods want to ban someone, go ahead, but please, do it on just ground, otherwise it's not good for any of us.

How in the world is it better Corp gear than Pernix? Even though it does have 26% melee absorb for a full set, it has under 150 melee defense and 76 magic defense. Regardless of healing and absorb, you'll get hit with pretty much everything an awful lot in Virtus. Pernix has major negative melee attack, which is a huge problem with zammy spear. Melee def and absorption is useless at corp solo. Virtus has decent mage absorption, decent mage def(both compared to karils) and gives a load more lp with brews(which is what you want).

try dungeonsweep. You won't be getting into many team right now(and it's not as though there will be any chats where you will do better) but they are all about teaching you to become a better dungeoneer, which is primary for most low level dungeoneers. You are just weening into the teaming part of dungeoneering, so you'll have alot to learn.

I still can't understand people disregarding virtus. It's the 2nd best melee armor out there(for most things, basically because of healing and no negative melee) and clearly the best corp gear around(hand and shoulders above anything else). If anything, torva is the most useless set(as there is not much use for the higher defense).

First get p2p, then max out, and then train dungeoneering. Alternatively you can suck it up and train the way everyone does and not complain about a lack of knowledge(which is very much available from many sources) and levels(which clearly aren't very good, yet). If you are not willing to learn and improve yourself, dungeoneering really isn't a skill for you. Blade, i think those calculations look pretty conclusive, yeah.

I don't see how there could be much trust in someone with 6 post count. If someone of the current tip teams cheated, they'd practically be excluded from these forums forever, which would be a big deal to them, can't trust people who have nothing to lose.

There are thousands upon thousands who have done that. Cheeesy wants to be special, too.