Reliable

You have to be 18 to gamble in a casino. Also, gambling companies are about the most regulated industry in existence, with every single aspect heavily regulated to deter crime and protect the gambler against shady casinos. In the United States, running an unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense. And they still don't hold casinos responsible for gamblers decisions. Also, saying in the USA running unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense is fine, but tell me where running one in RS is against the RS laws? The point is, until this is made an in game rule (which it currently is not), then it is moot. I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the laws IRL, but comparing the game to IRL laws can't really be used. It's against the law to kill people, but this is done in the game on a regular basis (along with all the various forms of violent actions). It's against the law to fish without a permit / cut trees down without permits. It's against the law to gamble without a license, yet people can in RS have been doing it since the introduction of RS with staking, and more recent, flower poker. It's against the law to sell weapons to others, especially minors, yet you can sell these to other people in RS. You want to compare to RL, how about the fact that gambling destroys lives in RL, same as it destroys the game in RS. Actually, I'm saying you CAN'T compare IRL to a game. But to entertain your point, gambling destroys the lives associated with the gambler. My life isn't destroyed by Jack Schmidt losing his house to a casino, just like my gaming experience is absolutely no different when Zezima29423 loses his bank to a flower host. EDIT: I'm pretty sure if a flower host on Runescape went to federal court based on him gambling fake money (regardless of the fact it can be sold), they'd laugh it out of court. But hey who knows, maybe federal prisons are full of people who broke irl laws over video games. I just hope I don't have to face a judge over my mass murder of innocent civilians on GTA. I better get rid of all my evidence now.

You have to be 18 to gamble in a casino. Also, gambling companies are about the most regulated industry in existence, with every single aspect heavily regulated to deter crime and protect the gambler against shady casinos. In the United States, running an unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense. And they still don't hold casinos responsible for gamblers decisions. Also, saying in the USA running unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense is fine, but tell me where running one in RS is against the RS laws? The point is, until this is made an in game rule (which it currently is not), then it is moot. I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the laws IRL, but comparing the game to IRL laws can't really be used. It's against the law to kill people, but this is done in the game on a regular basis (along with all the various forms of violent actions). It's against the law to fish without a permit / cut trees down without permits. It's against the law to gamble without a license, yet people can in RS have been doing it since the introduction of RS with staking, and more recent, flower poker. It's against the law to sell weapons to others, especially minors, yet you can sell these to other people in RS.

While to an extent this is true, you can then say children can't be held responsible for hacking / scamming / ddosing in RS, therefore none should be banned as children can't be held responsible for their behavior. You start on that slippery slope, you will only do more harm than good. Children IRL are still held responsible when they break laws, just not as severe as adults do.

Well it will be changed soon enough anyways, so people can be happy that they can continue to be coddled and have their hands held to the point of needing to take absolutely no responsibility. If you prefer that, that's fine really, everyone has a right to like what they want, I just think that taking all responsibility out of the people performing the actions is the wrong approach. When you gamble in real life casinos and develop a gambling addiction, you don't see the casinos getting in trouble with the law and being outlawed, just because people can't take their own responsibility. Though I guess we do live in a society that never wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, so it may be more appropriate than I think. Also, if the community somehow should dictate what others are allowed to make in x amount of time, I believe you should only be able to kill Nex 100 times a week, because otherwise you're making much more money than skillers who actually work hard fishing / woodcutting for their gains, while boss hunters make the same amount of money in 1/10 the time. Sure it may sound ridiculous to you, but it's the exact same thing you are dictating regarding gambling vs boss hunting. PS: Telling people to just go play online poker instead is just telling people to continue gambling, which seems to be the big problem. So you don't want people to gamble, so you tell them to gamble elsewhere? That just means you don't want them gambling on RS, is it because they make more money than you?

Are you actually admitting that in your opinion hosting is "morally wrong" since you say "people need to learn from mistakes"? If hosting and gambling were good things, there's no mistake to be learned from. Actually, I'm referring to people who get cleaned by gambling, they need to learn from their mistakes by knowing when to stop. I don't see how that falls under "morally wrong".

I love how so many people up are so up in how "morally wrong" hosting is. I'm sorry, but if hosts find a way to make money by gambling at a much higher rate than anything else in RS, then good for them, they are SMART people. I'm sorry but if I have the choice to make 1b in 1 hour by hosting, or make the same 1b by nexing for 1 week, I'll chose the 1 hour. It's simply baffling that people seem to take the "moral high road" over a bloody game. I don't host or participate in flower games, but I have staked in the past. I turned 100m into 21b in literally 5 days of staking. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have made this money otherwise, because I personally don't like bossing, especially for months on end. Even if I did, I'd rather make money in an efficient manner. I don't lose sleep at night over making money faster in a game. And to be honest, even the RWT factor I don't see how people can really blame. Game morals don't help pay the bills, and if people want to take advantage of their profits in a game (which literally is NOT doing anything illegal, as the gp is still in sole possession of Jagex), then all the power to them. Tbh, if I wasn't so afraid of getting my account banned at the time, I could have made a killing, paid off some school debt etc. Instead, I lost a good majority of it to Ddosing, sucks to be me. You can hate my comments all you want but take a step back and look at what you're debating. You're not out in a school playground offering card games for kid's lunch money, you are playing a video game... Even Pokemon games have gambling (though NA versions eventually had to change this due to a lawsuit) with slot machines and such. It's a VIDEO GAME, and if people want to say that it can effect people's real lives as well, the same can be said for so many other factors of Runescape (Losing money merchanting can be compared to losing money in stock market, staking to casinos, hell, even getting pked can be related to getting mugged if you want to stretch it as much as you guys are). I think it's time to start blaming the people for their own problems, instead of trying to put Styrofoam on every corner of life to make it "such a safe place". People need to learn from mistakes, not be hidden from reality and having to learn these mistakes later on in life when things actually matter.

And if the area under Taverly stays open... Isn't the shortcut west of the West Fally bank 5 agil? Which leads to a mine with 2 coal / 3 iron spots? Would be semi helpful opening that up. Also, regarding altars, it would prob be a member feature to visit other people's houses, where only your own is open on f2p. Simple fix to the altar for Jagex, who have shown already with making Bonecrusher P2P that they don't want easy Prayer for F2Pers.

Still unsure why people are mentioning gilded altars. You only get to level 5 construction max, and will have to be on a f2p world at all times as f2p so you can't just hop into another players house with an altar.

And also makes Jagex reconsider doing any of these kinds of things for the community in the future...

Oh I don't like the looks of this... I want a $5 / month to help the current game, and I don't want content update polls... I don't want GE / God Wars etc in this server :( Oh well, we'll see what happens

Fine by me, makes the 250k I was hoping for more likely now :D Just please, don't hit 500k lol

In that case, I'd definitely wait for the final day(s) of voting. If it does somehow get close enough to 250k, maybe then vote due to the $5 possible price. Unfortunately though, that is not looking very likely :(

That hasn't stopped the F2P community. ;) Yeah but you also had hiscores for quite some time before it was taken away. You guys relied on it so had to make changes in order to continue. Classic right from the split didn't have a hiscore system, and being an avid RSC player on my other account, I can assure you to this day the lack of hiscores have prevented true competition. Yeah, that would stop most anything. Hopefully they don't restrict RS07 signups like that have for RSC. I seriously hope not too. However with the additional member pricing to play (Face it everybody, 500k isn't happening, not by a long shot), I don't see Jagex restricting signups.

I'm talking about the whole 58 page discussion, not your specific post. And yes of course we're the minority, which will probably take up the majority of the servers. If people don't want to grind, they'll quit of course, leaving the majority of the server people who actually do want to do these grinds, thus being self sustaining (however, it will take some time to get there). The first month will be alot of people whining and quitting, due to voters getting their first month free, and the forums will all be up and laughing at how their "predictions were true", discounting the fact that alot of people who didn't care about 07 servers will try it and be the ones actually causing those problems. Then a few months later, the real players will be there, and I think you'll see a decent amount of people there. Also, alot of people seem to forget about 2 things regarding classic. There are no hiscores, which eliminates almost all forms of actually competing, and signups are closed. People will quit all the time for whatever reason they may have, but noone else will take their place. Of course the classic servers dwindled.

People need to just accept that people will complain about this no matter what. Even if Jagex has enough money from these 2007 servers to benefit the main game 10-fold people will still [bleep] and complain, it's just how the Runescape community is. This is also why people will keep with this "minority" argument. If the votes hit 500k people will still say it's a minority using the 1.8m number at that point. This is an argument you can't win, due to the general rs population being so damn stubborn and threatened regarding this 2007 implementation. Face it, alot of people WANT to play this 2007 server. They KNOW this server has no GE, no summoning, no LRC, no Span, etc. This is why most of us WANT TO PLAY IT. Saying we'll quit due to it is simply laughable. We KNOW there is no economy, we KNOW people will have to grind mining/smithing, slayer, etc before these items come in. This is why we're EXCITED. Personally, I'm incredibly excited because I WANT to grind out mining / fishing very fast, to be one of the top miners/fishers in the game, and start the supply of fish / ores / armour / whips etc to the community. This argument and incredible bitterness to the 2007 servers shows the exact reason why alot of people don't like the current RS community. People can't just let people do what they enjoy. They have to criticize how they play, tell them what they're allowed to enjoy, and downgrade people's accomplishments just because their viewpoint is different. A pure example is that whole Green with her 'inefficient' style of playing. Because it's inefficient, she shouldn't be doing it, regardless of if it is fun to her. Let people play the way they want to for pity sake lol.

To be honest, I hope it doesn't hit 500k, but only hits 250k - 499k. $5 is a very reasonable cost to pay for the extra server, it puts more money in Jagex's pockets to go towards the main game, and (more a dream than a probable reality), it MAY limit the number of bots that join the server, considering the additional cost (prob not, but one can dream). If the $5 a month is the final outcome, with a decent amount of players it can actually benefit the current game rather than take away from it, making it more of a win/win for players.

"The Squeaky Wheel Gets The Grease"

Still don't get why everyone seems to assume we all want 2007 servers for the community and nostalgia... majority of the people i talk to (as well as myself) want it for a fresh start where you actually can compete, a non-microtransaction game, a more challenging game, etc. Tbh I hated the community even in 2007 lol.

I still play, I "like" EoC, but definitely don't LOVE it, and I'm in full support of 07 servers. People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize not everyone has the same viewpoints as you do.

- It's a gimmick and more of a shameless cash grab than the SoF will ever be, especially since a few people early on claim to have subscribed just so that they could vote. Cash grab or not, it's still giving the option, it's not saying "Give us $15/month and we won't offer you anything in return". This is a business, offering an additional service for an additional fee, this is not a foreign idea in the world. - I doubt it will add anything lasting to the community or the game - I am willing to bet money on the servers being close to abandoned within three months. Community has been dead for a long time, horribly split among massive amounts of different areas etc. I doubt it will be completely abandoned, if anything it'll just turn into a PK server at most. Remember, private servers aren't abandoned by any means, and with it being officially sanctioned by Jagex, the risk of losing your work on the server will be taken away (A factor many people avoided private servers for). - It lets the vocal minority decide on the future of a game/company that they don't even play. "The Squeaky Wheel Gets The Grease" The future of the game has nothing to do with this server. This is separate from the main game which will continue the same way it would if it was never even mentioned. Also, I doubt that vocal minority are planning to vote but never return to rs at all, so they will be playing.

Personally, I'll do it @ $5 a month, which I'm sure the votes will hit that, esp if my predictions about bot companies voting for it as well for an extra market.

Personally, I do like EoC and the game as it is now, however... I have also lost alot of the fun I used to have. Everything in game now seems to lack a real challenge. Double exp gets thrown at us from every angle, SoF, Solomons (to a lesser extent), ZMI/RuneSpan, Living Rock Caverns, Grand Exchange, Drygore Weapons, Chaotics, etc make everything so damn easy now. Every skill in the game has 100k exp + per hr methods now (minus Slayer which can break 100k / hr just not as consistently). Also, EoC makes mage/range training so much easier and cheaper (yes, chins/barraging were faster, but i mean overall). I have alot more fun when things are actually challenging. RSC would have been my game of choice permanently had I not lost all my stats, or if it had a high score to compete with. Because this server has its own dedicated high score, I would gladly move to 2007scape, as I would finally be able to actually compete properly. There won't be people high up in the ranks because they buy $200 of spins constantly, inflated exp due to effigies, etc. For me, I won't be voting yes due to nostalgia, I will be voting yes due to an actual challenge for the first time in AGES, and the long overdue return of FUN for me in the game. Accomplishments will mean so much more, high score ranks will have meaning, and will be void of all microtransactions. I personally can't see a (real) downside to this.

Personally, I do like EoC and the game as it is now, however... I have also lost alot of the fun I used to have. Everything in game now seems to lack a real challenge. Double exp gets thrown at us from every angle, SoF, Solomons (to a lesser extent), ZMI/RuneSpan, Living Rock Caverns, Grand Exchange, Drygore Weapons, Chaotics, etc make everything so damn easy now. Every skill in the game has 100k exp + per hr methods now (minus Slayer which can break 100k / hr just not as consistently). Also, EoC makes mage/range training so much easier and cheaper (yes, chins/barraging were faster, but i mean overall). I have alot more fun when things are actually challenging. RSC would have been my game of choice permanently had I not lost all my stats, or if it had a high score to compete with. Because this server has its own dedicated high score, I would gladly move to 2007scape, as I would finally be able to actually compete properly. There won't be people high up in the ranks because they buy $200 of spins constantly, inflated exp due to effigies, etc. For me, I won't be voting yes due to nostalgia, I will be voting yes due to an actual challenge for the first time in AGES, and the long overdue return of FUN for me in the game. Accomplishments will mean so much more, high score ranks will have meaning, and will be void of all microtransactions. I personally can't see a (real) downside to this. EDIT: Oops, with the discussion I thought I was posting in the 2007 server thread xD

Also, Jagex stated they WON'T be updating 2007scape alongside normal RS. They will have votes (only at the highest end voting tiers) on updates currently in game to be implemented into 2007 (ie - Vote on whether players want to have God Wars implemented, since it was added after the 2007 start date). And this is only if they hit the 500k/750k votes

No LRC either :D