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Gamerr

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Posts posted by Gamerr

    Clan loyalty, less important these days?

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    Who would return for ~12 hours back in 2005? I'm sure a few would, but a large amount of members in the largest clans would return for that length of time nowadays. It's insane.

     

    I don't consider returning for 12 hours being loyal. I consider that having nothing better to do then sitting behind a PC for 12 (twelve!) hours to fight out some e-fight that doesn't even require any skill.

    Clan loyalty, less important these days?

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    I've been amused lately with the recent happenings, because I think the current clan situation is the consequence of the declining importance of clan loyalty in RuneScape. I'll explain what I mean.

     

    These days the amount of clan members who have been in 1 clan only are very rare. Most clan members are loyal, but only for as long it goes well. I often compare those people with sheep. They follow the herd, if a clan is "hot" or "strong" they just join it and so on. True loyal clan people stick to their clan for as long they play RuneScape, for me the only reason to leave a clan is when your vision has become completely the opposite of the staffs ones, or even of your fellow clansmen. However, most RS players are a bit weak, they want succes now, they don't want to build up. I think the succes of clans like VR isn't that they have an exceptional history, that they have legendary leaders but just that they have the numbers. I admit, it's fun to be in a clan that goes out, cleans wild and then act victorious on helpsite forums. Nowadays there are few 'big' clans left, and more & more people are starting their own clan, or joining a clan without really taking the time to explore it. Back when I started to be involved in clans, around '05, people would really compare clans, hang out for a few days (even weeks) before intro-ing/applying & then after a lot of consideration join a clan. Nowadays, you leave your old clan and almost immediately join a new one. I couldn't do that, but a lot of people apperantely can.

     

    Ofcourse the declining quality of some clans could be a reason there are less loyal clansmen, but I wonder if that's such an issue. It may sound far fetched, but in RS(2) everything has to go fast. Hardly no building up to something, hardly no patience which is reflected in the insanely fast training methods, the insanely high rewards from bosses and so on. I see that same trend in clans, if it all goes bad, why stay and wait until it becomes better? Let's join another clan which is better now. So I have 2 questions where I would like to see your answers on:

     

    1. How important is loyalty in clans these days? 
2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

    Clan Section Suggestions & Improvements

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    Not to discredit this clan staff but if you look around, what we now have on this section was all brought to the table by former teams or the CIC. The glory just fell upon this generation of the staff because of things that have happened around the clan world and the ground that was laid before them. I'm not saying the staff we have now is uncapable i'm just saying they are bringing very little, especially for being the largest clan staff tipit has ever had.

     

    I know what you mean, but sometimes it's hard to combine everything (RL- clan - tip it) clan staff all together. Especially the TWR (and I speak out of experience) drains so much time that after doing the points, posting topics & archiving them you mostly don't have any energy left to write long posts about stuff.

     

    However, I was always in favour of some sort of TWR mods. I mean, people who are especially hired to ONLY do the TWR. People are hired now as CL, which is more then just a TWR mod. I always found it stupid to hire a CL who said on beforehand he/she didn't have any interest in helping out with the TWR, because back then we didn't have much to do next to that. So people who are specifically recruited to do the TWR stuff, like 3-5 motivated people, and then the other clan mods can spend their time in other aspects that have to be done.

     

    I actually left staff because I can't do the TWR anymore. It's something I don't have time for, I can browse forums but I really can't spend hours a day on updating, negotiating etc. I am more a creative person, who wants to find solutions for ideas, who wants to think out new ways. Lately I havn't done that because I felt it wasn't suited to 'brag' with ideas while I was on leave anyway.

     

    I was in favour of specific tasks for the staff, like clearly say "person x does that " and not " person x is a CL, and mods that & that ". Specific jobs, better evaluations. I also don't believe in the "recruit 10 CLs and hope 2 of them are good", because I think you really can estimate well who can do what. It's not critisism on the current staff, but it's just the way I feel.

     

     

    I already got strong emotions from some of the staff without even naming names. So I would hate to see the reaction from the staff if I did name names. And I doubt it's even allowed to name names like it used to be, my post probably would have been deleted.

     

    True, but I always hated that I had to hear behind my back that some people had comments about me. I'm not saying you have to make topics about "wow that staff member is inactive explanation please", but I'm sure a 1 on 1 convo with a clan staff member where you express your concerns about certain people is really not bad, it's maybe even a good idea. If clan staff members recieve bad/good feedback about the CLs, or about themselves they might know what to do faster.

     

     

     

    I don't want this place to be another RSC. But there's so many clans out there that don't use forums that could use tipit. Sals used to be the place for clans under top 15 status. Now tipit is sort of taking that role but we still aren't on the level that sals was back in their "glory days".

     

    I think the succes ScapeBoard had isn't really something that's still possible these days. However, I agree we should keep expanding within tip.it.

     

     

     

    Do you not remember how and why the CIC was closed? It was agreed upon by the CIC members in a topic I had created. A lot of us felt the ideas that we had in there were being ignored by the staff and updates were being agreed upon and thrown out without even consulting the CIC. The staff at the time totally ignored the CIC and made it into what was basically just a private "Suggestion" board. The forum then became purposeless so it was agreed upon by both CIC members and staff that it would be best to close the CIC and pass the purposes of the CIC to both the Conclave and this thread (not actually this thread, the original got closed and unstickied). That sadly never actually happened, the conclave is a ghost town nowadays.

     

    We ignored the CiC? I have to not agree with you there. The ideas weren't really that innovative anymore the last months, atleast that was my idea. It was basicly 2-3 people who now & then posted. I think the conclave is too inactive, because most clan officials aren't really realising what impact their opinion could have. But you're right, there's a lot of room for improvement there.

    Clan Section Suggestions & Improvements

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    The clan staff seems to be rather weak lately. Ever since people like Loge (even though i didn't care for the guy too much, he got things done) and dbz have left, there hasn't been much direction from the staff. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I can see the public boards and things aren't being brought from drawing board to forum board. I mean, I don't care for hating on the staff but it's just potential isn't being used here. I feel like we have a staff that isn't very well equipped for the task on hand.

     

    I'm not commenting on the current quality of the staff, since I didn't work with some of the CLs. But I can surely say they are working hard behind the scenes. This clan discussion was dead about a year ago, and building something up goes with ups & downs. I'm not saying everything is top notch & like an oiled machine, but give it some time. Yes, it will take a lot of time. Some events in the near future could give us an advantage in the future, but it's better to work on something longer & have a decent balanced staff.

     

    I don't like the general things. Which potential isn't used? Who isn't very well equipped? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that it's allowed to voice your opinion. Some things I always hated when I was clan mod was the sort of posts like " The Clan staff is inactive ". That wasn't true, some of them were and others did their work. If you're unhappy about a CL or a clan mod, it's allowed (I think?) to mention the reason why. But stuff that happen on the topic of chester where people kind of mock him before he has had the chance to proof anything are unacceptable. I also didn't agree on some CL's, and about some I was right and some suprised me. I am strongly for more open communication, but if you feel it's inappropriate to name names in public PM a clan staff member & I'm really sure it will be looked at.

     

    And the current staff has such a shallow background. We have people from clans BK, WG, TDM and Notorious. With the exception of Notorious, these are all rather weak clans. It's not that this really bothers me because of their but it's that how little they are bringing to the table. How many users from the mentioned clans do you even see around here? Besides a few floating Notorious members, I can't name one CDer from any one of those clans really (that aren't mods of course). That's saying our mods, who should be pressing towards a top notch section, aren't even bringing their own clan in. If they are set to bring and flourish a community but they can't bring in their own pupils, then how are they going to convince strangers to come here? Even worse, the other half of the gang are clanless. Which some of these aspects are fine in there own ways. You need a solid mixture for the best results.

     

    I don't want to be bitter here, but there have been a few (ex-) clan staff members from 'big' clans. And to be honest, their contribution wasn't that impressive. The only way that clan staff from big clans works is only when their clan is represented on tip.it, when there is like a heap of clan staff so it isn't too much work. I speak out of experience, I've worked with 2-4 people from "big" clans and I must say I wasn't impressed. They probably did a lot of good stuff in their own clan, but they had little or no time left to contribute to tip.it. First get some more traffic here from those "big clans" before you will have succesful (high ranked) members from that clan that can really invest time in tip.it.

     

    Tip.it has made the mistake in the past to try to lure people to tip.it, which wasn't smart. I believe - and current clan staff can correct me if I'm wrong - we don't want to lure clans to tip.it, we want clans to choose for tip it. I'd rather have less clans here and quality then a bunch of morons who think they are e-cool. The same reason I'm not really that convinced we need big clans, since most of the good clans died & of the ones that are left there are some that aren't really examples of what the clan world has used to be. I'd rather not have those people visit tip.it, but that's just me.

     

     

    But again, I'm not here posting this because I want to hate on the clan staff. It's just sad to see what we (the original tipit clanners) had so strongly chased after being now suddenly forgotten about. Sure you could use the argument that there's more traffic on this section than in a long time, but how much is that credit to the current clan staff and how much is that credit to outside happenings? Because you can pretty much thank the Sals staff for pulling a "tipit" (referring to the old school tipit) and then you have to give props back to the CIC which laid the ground work for success. The stage is here but all the clan staff is breeding is a adequate community.

     

    I think the traffic on tip.it isn't maybe impressive, but honestly I have an headache after reading RSCommunity for longer then 15 minutes. All the pointless arguments, all the clans that think they are the best because they crashed another etc. Yeah maybe the TWR isn't the best ranking in RS with the strongest clans, but atleast there's some decency there. I think the current habit of fighting boring long hours, without even having to have some sort of tactics has ruined the clan world. Almost all good clans died, only some are left and the question is for how long. I think the current & past staff has a lot of credit for the increasing traffic. And the CiC also ofcourse, and to be very honest I didn't want to close it but it was inactive for MONTHS and we gave enough oppurtunities to become active there to all the current member. We got a quite clear " We're not interested " or " You can do it on your own " signal, it's however you see it so we did. Don't get me wrong, the CiC helped A LOT and I don't think without it we would be where we are now, but the TWR is still running and that's the clan staff their credit. They update it, they negotiate, they keep track of everything. If you feel the CiC-members didn't get enough credit for what they have done, I appologize for that. Because they helped out damn well.

     

    If there are things that aren't going well, you can always make a topic on CD and point that out. I'm sure that if it's a good discussion the mods won't have a problem with it & will even be happy people try to help them out.

     

    Note: sorry if I sound sometimes like a mod, just felt I needed to respond to this post. Nothing personal Pan,. <3:

    Just an FYI.

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    i would just like to say gamerr is extremely lame and you should go on that date with niels

     

    You live too far Niels, why do you talk about yourself in 3rd person? #-o

     

    Thanks for everything, Gamerr :)

     

    Random Note: House is win.

     

    Thanks. It indeed is a great show!

    Just an FYI.

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    Hey,

     

    I've posted my resignation from the clan staff about a week ago. It's still in process (I might stick around to moderate classic boards) but I have no time anymore to be an active clan mod. RL has been very busy lately and will be in the near future, so I couldn't offer you the activity you guys deserve. I wish the rest of the clan staff best of luck, I got faith in them they will do their best and will keep helping to continue the great work we as clan staff have done so far. It was a honour working with all you guys and it makes me very happy to see that the TWR is running great and tip.it has clan boards again that are an asset to the fansite.

     

    Certainly with these new forums I see a very bright future for this clan section, so keep posting, warring & discussing stuff here. I'll stick around or at classic boards or just as regular user, and ofcourse on #clans.

     

    Thanks for the good times guys!

    -Gamerr

    DI Closes

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    This is huge, and it doesn't just reflect on the clan world either, it marks the end of an older generation of the runescape community.

    And I don't think the clan world will recover from the things that happened this year.

    It's really sad, to see the backbone of a game disappear like this. RIP DI

     

    I'm afraid I have to agree. The clan worlds quality has been declining for several years now, basicly the clan world has never recovered from the closure of the original wilderness. In my eyes JAGeX killed RuneScape for the more mature & experienced players, since PK-ing and Clan Warring was for most of them the only really challenging aspect of RS.

     

    The last years many legendary & well respected clans closed. It started all the way back with Zeonic Force, even ST and other follow up clans closed down. Dark Slayers closed, The Futures closed (which has maybe nearly no influence on the clan world per se, but it's quite confronting even junior clans didn't have a future anymore) and now Shadow Elves & Damage Inc on a short time. Personally DI was for me the best clan in RS, period. Strong & stable leadership, quality > quantity and always trying to fight on an honourable way.

     

    The last years clans like Exodus, Noobs Inc, ... have basicly lowered the standard. It's filled with people who couldn't manage to achieve something in other clans (NI is full of ex-The members for example) and think they have a great clan by crashing & ruining basicly what clans are all about. I'm very sad RS turned out from a great MMPORG to a game where only 12-16 year old kids can have fun, since they are in the majority now because of the simplification of RS (a ditch? a heap of signs to go in wildy? Please) and because basicly adjusting the game so the little kids - who can't cope with the fact they can loose a lot of valuable stuff now & then - don't leave it.

     

    The quality of the clans these days is horrific. For example in some clans you have to attend all PK trips, sometimes even more then 12 hours, and if you have stuff IRL you should move them "because that's what loyal clansmen do" (this is not made up, I won't say which clan it is but it's a top 5 one who demands that from members). PK-ing & warring against other clans isn't anymore about tactics, it's about who has the biggest banks, who has the most time (I see that as who is so stupid to spend more then a few hours a day on RS to fight useless clan fights) and not about whose the best. Short wars where the tanking, tactics & pulls matter define true strength. Yes, sure returning and willing to offer rune for your clan is some form of dedication, but after all it's a game. Some clans made a sport out of it to return with a few people for hours & hours, until backup arrived. I always found that a lame tactic just because you don't want to admit the other clan is stronger.

     

    With Damage Inc one of the last quality clans died imho. There's hardly any clan that is open for several years that is at its peak at the moment. Look at the oldest Alliance in RS, being 'The' Alliance. TMRD is dead, Jagz is not really shocking alive either, Gladz has lost a lot of its former glory (but that's with most of the big clans back in the days) and 'The' went from a top 10 (maybe even top 5) clan in the beginning of the year to a mediocre clan that is lead by people who refuse to improve, because "we are a community clan".

     

    Clan staffs (as in the staff of most clans, not tip its ofc :P ) have no vision anymore. Everything has to happen short term, there's no room to built up. When a staff makes a decision in the direction to built up slowly & steadidly, members start to whine. People don't have patience anymore, they want everything now & directly. That vision is maybe succesful on short term, but the recent turnouts & basicly the lack of older clans prooves that it fails on the long run. With RS having only younger & younger players, they don't know the history. They don't respect it. This day, this moment that the Clan World would recieve serious damage has come now, if a legendary clan like DI, that survived basicly all the changes, always kept their power closes now is symbolic. I doubt many clan leaders will really think about it, since they are probably thinking only about taking their spot, instead of realising the clan world has a serious quality problem, and also quantity soon.

    DI Closes

    in Clan Discussions

    Posted

    I find Brian selfish. Heck yeah he was the leader for years but isn't it possible to give the command over to somebody else?

     

    I feel this was a 1 man decision, since an advisor was suprised posting first.

    [TWR] Akeldama taste True Ownage

    in Wars & Run-Ins

    Posted

    Points: True 0wnage 98 - Akeldama 50.

     

     

     

    Explanation: The normal points are 198 & 50, however True 0wnage has somebody on their list who is in CK. We have seen your explanation on the topic, but that doesn't change the fact that -clan friend or not- you can't have people from other TWR clans on your ML. We have also evidence to believe Hildalgo301 is still important in CK since he has on their forums the mask of global mod.

     

     

     

    It's the job of each clan staff to assure all the people who are in a war are only on 1 TWR clan their memberlist. Otherwise this gives confusion, or a wrong image of the number of people you could pull. We are deducting 100 points of the total score as a punishment.

     

     

     

    I'd like to add also, if in the future there are problems like this to ONLY contact a TWR mod and not start arguing on the topic itself.

    [TWR] Akeldama taste True Ownage

    in Wars & Run-Ins

    Posted

    Next time you guys start an obviously interesting back and forth topic, go do it on your OWN clan forums.

     

     

     

    Closing this topic - we are working on it.

     

    But I'll clear some things up:

     

    1. It's irrelevant wheter CK is frozen or not, as long a clan is on the TWR list we expect those members not to be in another clan. Mostly the reason to be frozen is the need for reorganisation, I don't expect members to fight with other clans then.

     

    2. There's enough information on this topic to make a decision, we will get back to you asap.

     

     

     

    To both clans, we are taking into account all the things posted on this topic, I'm just stating the rules.

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