Vector isnt easy to do . Some people just have natural talent with it and it flows from their fingers/mouse/tablet . Check out http://www.climb-x.com . Thats one good gfx site . Look in their Show Off section . Now thats hard . Id like to see you do them . The art here on tip.it is nothing . Broaden your horizons . True , i would say there are alot of great gfx'ers here . But , they can only do so much as to improve the art scene here . You have to educate the people who WANT those signatures . Its not use arguing with the artist . Also , everyone has a different perspective . You might think that your perspective is the only and only correct one . Your wrong , dead wrong . Everyone's likes and dislikes are different . As is their skills . You cant condemn them . Its not easy to do signatures like guns does . Yeah sure , there might be alot of styles , but one can only excel at what hes good at . I would do vectors myself , if i could afford a better version of photoshop/ illustrator . A man is limited to what he can do by his tools . Im sorry if i hurt anyone's feelings in the process of this post . I just had to say all this . Regards , pkedmage