gpacX

haha, it has nothing to do with winning against you, it is everything to do with the mental stimulation that comes as the result of an intelligent conversation. I'm certainly not angry, either at Jagex, or at you personally about any of these issues, and I fully understand that it's already been decided. The fact that I am critical of jagex, its' decisions, and many of its players, should not imply that I am crusading against Jagex or anyone else, it should largely suggest that I am interested in my own enjoyment of the game that I pay to play, and trust me, I am extremely aware that my definition of fair play (anything outside bug abuse, to use the mechanisms of the game to ones' advantage) is different from the definition that other players use (bug abuse and actions deceptive or misleading). I understand that as a moderator for Jagex you are somewhat obligated to support their ideas, and I'm sure that on a personal level you don't altogether disagree with them either, which is fine, more power to you. However, you would do well to remember that these suggestions about what "fair play" means come from a body of gamers the many of whom, i would venture to say, if polled, would suggest that teleporting from the wilderness and praying 1 vs 1 in the wilderness are unfair tactics, when clearly they are not. I have never stated that Jagex should change their rules, of make luring legal, I have simply made the case that there are grounds to support the idea of luring as a legitimate pking tactic, knowing full well that the majority of runescape disagrees with me. I've enjoyed our little back and forth, and I hope I haven't offended you at all with anything I said. If I did, I sincerely apologize and I contest that it was only to further my arguments and not meant to offend you in any way. I added you in game if you wanted a word mate. Cheers. Honourably, gpacX

Fey I feel that your ideas of what is acceptable and what is not are poorly supported by Jagex and by the intelligent gaming community. Furthermore, I find Andrew Gower's statement about luring to be illogical and erroneous, and I feel that not all luring can be placed in the same category. To illustrate this point I will use an example that you have given in this thread: dropping items at the edge of the wilderness in order to "deceive" other players. This is akin to sending someone a letter asking them to jump off a bridge and being charged with attempted murder. I would like to start by saying that anyone who falls for this is a [bleep]ing idiot. As has been stated many times, the knowledge of the risks of the wilderness is available and presented to everyone that plays Runescape. Everybody knows where the wilderness is and what happens when you go in it. The problem is that you and the narrow-minded implings at Jagex are slaves to the idea that people have no choices and they are being manipulated. If I see a whip sitting in level 1 wilderness on the ground, I am NOT being scammed, I am only being forced to make a CHOICE. 1. Succumb to my own greed, run out and try to grab the whip and escape, risking the loss of any other items I might be carrying. 2. Weight the value of the items in my inventory against the value of the whip and decide whether or not I am willing to take the risk of running into the wilderness with whatever I have on me. 3. Recognize the possibility that there could be pkers there and choose to ignore the whip, with the assumption that it is likely a lure. It may or may not be a lure, I may never find out, but I have not needlessly risked any of the items I was carrying. 4. Bank and grab food/armour and hope to get back in time to maybe still grab that whip. Fey I completely agree that it is wrong to verbally manipulate other people within the game, but I think that lying to someone and saying some area is safe when it really isn't does not fall into the same category as dropping an item somewhere and then seeing if someone wants to pick it up. As an outside entity, it is unreasonable for a person to interfere with and contradict the mechanisms of the game that are designed to caution players against entering unsafe areas. That being said, I believe that using the functions of the game in order to lure is acceptable conduct. I think it's ridiculous that Jagex has deemed it improper to drop certain item in certain areas of the game. Without being verbally influenced by another player, you are left only with the situation and you own knowledge to determine what actions you want to take. Anyone, especially Mr. Gower, who feels that people going into the wilderness don't know the risks is full of [cabbage]. There's a knowledge base, signs everywhere, there's a [bleep]ing trench, there's a pop-up warning when you cross that trench. If at this point you can't say that if you run into the wilderness and lose your [cabbage] it's your own damn fault, then I don't know when we'll ever get to that point. The actual problem is not that people don't know the risk, it's that people are so greedy and stupid that they don't bother to evaluate situations before they take risks, and they always take risks, even those that are unneccesary. Clearly the other problem is that these players aren't ready to take responsibility for their own poor decision making, so they blame it on whoever profits from it. Luring entirely fits with the risk and reward in the wilderness, the only problem is that people who get lured are so immature about it because they've done something ignorant that they don't accept the consequences of their actions and instead [bleep] about it on forums so we can get more stupid rules like this. Even Jagex feels that the dangers of the wilderness are "well-documented" within the game. It is contradictory to then turn around and state that "the idea all along was the people going there know the risks, and it's a risk they willingly choose to take", this time to imply that people don't know the risks of the wilderness at all. I strongly think that there needs to be a distinction between people who verbally lie to players and people who do non-verbal things like tele-group ice plateau or drop items at the edge of wilderness. If you do these things and then lie and tell people it's safe, that's one thing, but I can't see how using the game, and your abilities in the game outside of bug abuse could be ruled an illegal action. It's [bleep]ing stupid and makes no sense.

While your arguments are well constructed, they are incorrect, and I stand by my previous convictions. ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅAbhorrent treatment of playersÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

Another dismal decision from a company that constantly caters to the lowest common denominator of people. As usual, the accountability for actions has been removed from those who don't bother reading the signs, don't bother understanding the game, and don't bother using common sense when they play runescape. I can't imagine blaming someone else for my own ignorance, going into an area that, as Jagex states, is a well-documented pking area, and expecting not to lose my items. Forget the "sign saving you", anyone who goes into the wilderness is fully informed of the dangers and those who choose to expose themselves to that should pay the penalty. Furthermore, I don't understand how those trying to profit from the ignorance of others can be blamed for that ignorance. A party hat pk is a party hat pk, no matter how you cut it, and to be honest, all of them are well-earned, because you've either bested a rich person in combat, or in common sense. People who hate luring are nothing more than childish gamers who can't deal with the risk and reward of entering clearly dangerous areas with valuable items that they are unprepared to lose despite the well-known, inherent risk of going into the wilderness. I guess the children win again. Good job guys. Bottom line about luring is this: the way I play the game doesn't reflect what kind of person I am, because runescape does not track how nice i am to other players, it keeps track of what is in my bank and if i decide to lure you, you can call me NH or a noob or whatever, but all the game knows is that you're dead, i'm alive and i have your stuff. People need to start playing the game instead of complaining about their own shortcomings and about the greater skill and experience of others.

thats awesome dude keep it up :)

1. Try to solo the KQ by yourself in full addy with a steel short and tuna. 2. Go to the KBD with nothing except a tinderbox and try to light him on fire. 3. Go pking in monk robes and a dagger, but instead of food and pots, bring an inventory full of ashes. When someone pks you, they will be like "wtf??" 4. Get to level 110 and go pking wit an inventory of unids that are actually guams. 5. Put a d chain the table somewhere and look at it. Lag it and hate your life forever. 6. Spam tipit with stupid topics. 7. Drop all your stuff on the ground 8. Scam your friends, then drop all their stuff on the ground 9. Buy stuff in world 2 and drop it on the ground 10. Go to varrock east on world 7 and shout drop party until people start dropping chefs hats and raw chicken.

Can't believe us Bk's lost soo badly. I'm not angry, I'm not accusing you guys of cheating, I'm just [bleep]ing confused.

I don't really know how many opts Gladz had before the war, but we maxed out our options in non-wildy. It was an insane war, and I am proud to have survived the entire thing. For a while, it seemed as though Bk was losing, but we bounced back and spammed names until all Gladz were defeated. All you fr00bs that think that Bk cheated, look at it this way: we have pics of them running away, and the best any Gladz member has produced is a picture of some random person redbarred while a guy shouts "r3f3r33" or whatever. I have no problem with Gladz as a whole, and I think that the war was fought fairly, for the most part. I also don't think that any one person can be held accountable, or can account for the actions of an entire group of people. Suffice it to say that certain individuals did a piss poor job of representing their clan. Note: Most of you have not heard of me, i'm new to Bk, i was not "recruited", I independently located the blacknights website and sent in an application because I wanted a clan with honour, and I daresay we showed that today. Nice fight everybody.