Sorator
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Posts posted by Sorator
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Isn't it official policy to only act as a P mod when it's absolutely necessary, though? Gold selling is clearly a necessary use of mod powers. Clamping down on H/C games... much more subjective. I'd be surprised if P mods are spending their time on gamblers unless it's clearly RWT, chat box abuse, or scamming.
Well, pmods are always players first, mods second, so it's never absolutely necessary, and mods are never required to act. Also, it's entirely our choice what to focus on - bots, RWTing, or whatever - so long as we stay within the bounds Jagex has given us regarding what they do and do not consider to be rulebreaking. (and I think most of us just play the game and deal with what we run across, rather than actively policing anything in lieu of actually playing the game.)
I disagree - if Jagex were actually doing something about it properly, it would be clearly stated in the rules that hosting flower/dice/gambling games IS against the rules. It isn't. They are passing the responsibility on to the PMods - how is that not clear? I'm not saying it's wrong what they are doing, I just think it's not too incoherent and inconclusive. Yes there are repercussions now, which didn't exist before, but is that enough? I don't think so. If something is worth doing (which it is), it's worth doing properly. I don't see how my view is "incorrect", not only is it an opinion, it's logical. Why do something half-arsed, and let players who believe that they aren't breaking the rules suffer the consequences?
EDIT: I've just read back and it seems that there's an auto-mute system now in place for certain phrases such as "H/C" - this kind of makes my post invalid as Jagex CLEARLY are doing something. However, at least update the rules so the somewhat innocent player-base who previously were not breaking the rules are aware? My point about that still stands. I'm going to bed - g'night all. :)
For one, as you noted, there's an auto-mute filter in place right now that's causing most of the ruckus, though I'm sure some pmods are also muting for similar phrases that aren't caught by the filter (though that also gets into the issue of "is it disruptive spamming?" in which case the mute is unquestionably valid, since spamming has long been against the rules).
For another, since mods are never required to take action, it's almost impossible for the responsibility for punishing a rule break to be put on pmods.
And again, I must point out that the "consequences" players are suffering consist of a two-day mute, which is not permanent damage and can indeed function as a warning in and of itself. (Could Jagex be more clear, and should they have been? Definitely. But I think the consequences of how they chose to do it are being overstated just a bit, especially considering the BtS note and past game changes discouraging gambling in all forms.)
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Everyone saying "Obviously it's against the rules so get the message"... It is NOT. If you can show me ANYWHERE in the rules/rswiki/ToS that it is against the rules I will pay you 100M. Stop saying it is when you have no proof.
I have the proof of people being instantly muted for typing a phrase associated with nothing other than gambling. Seems strong enough to me. *shrug*
It wouldn't surprise me if they included as a form of scamming.
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In which case gambling in RS is a federal crime.
GP has a real easily transferable value, saying its not real money so doesn't count, is like gambling ipads and saying they don't count, or more relevantly something like bitcoins.
No. GP does not have a clear real-world monetary value, because everyone who sells it is committing fraud by selling something that does not belong to them - the game, and all within it, are property of Jagex if you read the terms of service closely enough. (And even if that weren't the case, it'd be tricky to enforce it because it's online, based in the UK, not in the US.)
Logged on to do my spins from last night (went to the bar rather than playing) and said "H/C x2" in my own fc with no one around. Logged out and in and was muted. Did this on 3 throwaway accounts and all were instantly muted. As pissed off as I am about being muted with no announcement or warning, it's starting to make me laugh that Jagex is muting paying member accounts for something not against the rules at a time when they are doing anything they can to Keep members.
So maybe you should consider the constant mutes a statement that it is against the rules? It seems pretty clear, to me. And again, I don't think you have grounds to be that pissed off about being temp muted, because that's a pretty clear and strong warning to stop what you're doing, after having already gotten the general warnings they've done over time (the change to the toy horse lines, removal/reworking of several past gambling methods, and the announcements on the subject).
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As for being ignorant, I am aware that the game is split on views of gambling. But regardless of players views, Jagex should give warning before mass muting hosts who aren't breaking the rules. The reason I'm mad about being muted (and have every right to be) is because I did nothing against the rules. If Jagex made it against the rules then I would stop.
Don't judge me for playing the game how I want to play it within the rules set by Jagex because I don't judge you for how you play the game. As long as gambling is legal I will continue to host regardless of other players views as I have every right to as a paying member (since 2005) and long time player (2001) since it is within the rules and terms of service I agreed to.
Apparently, Jagex disagrees about that being against the rules.
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@Krampell. I looked at the rules and don't see anywhere where it is offensive language mentioning flowers. Can you please post a picture?
Flooding the chat is considered offensive language, which is technically what hosts do when they do the h/c x2 styled spam. Allegedly though you claim you were banned for saying you were a rank. Maybe you'd want to check and see if you spammed your game's description before or after saying you were a rank before being certain that it was the reason for your mute.
It's actually categorized as disruptive behavior, not offensive language, if I'm not mistaken.
All the flame for me being a host and being upset about getting muted unfairly. I say unfairly because I did nothing that constituted a mute based on the rules set forth by Jagex. People who say "gambling ruins the game" need to get over themselves. Sorry I make more standing at the GE for an hour than you do Nexing an entire weekend. I host for the rush, because even with our host odds, we still can take billion coin hits in one bet.
Gambling is an outlet for people to get the high risk/high reward adrenaline rush they seek. No different than staking. Only thing with gambling is no stats are needed so people can jump right in rather than training for months to max before they can stake.
Also, you would be surprised at the number of "respected" people on this forum who bash gambling, yet host on alternate accounts to fund their mains. Or bash all the rwt that happens from gambling, yet sell gold themselves. I won't name names because its not my business and I'm not going to get muted on here too for breaking tip.its rules.
Continue to flame me and I'll just report your posts. I am entitled to my opinion, especially since I have been directly affected by this "hidden update" and this ruins my enjoyment within the game. All I find fun is PvM and gambling but I hate PvM within EoC so now I only gamble and play 2007. I WILL NOT gamble on 2007 because I'm training to become a Pro DKer again. Had to throw that in there before people assumed I was gonna gamble in 2007.
Thanks,
Vann
And we are entitled to our opinion - namely, thinking you're a sillyhead. (We're also entitled to not listen to your opinion, just as you can ignore ours.)
If you look at any sort of prohibition in human history you'd realize people will always find a way around it. I view gambling as something of lower morals but it isn't inherently bad. Personally I like to wager myself sometimes, you may not condone it but it won't go away. Who are you to judge for someone having a good time?
I agree that gambling should be put out of player hands, however it won't go away untill there is a NPC-controlled setting with odds on the house and an additional -10% fee (or more) on player bets resulting in:
1. Hosts are gone from G.E. W2 making it possible to become a tradeplace again.
2. A moneysink/deflation of economy since the fee removes the money out of the game completely and even if some win big, odds are always on the house when it comes to gambling, in the end we all lose.
3. No scammers.
For the argument that gambling has a legal age, Jagex could easily implent a screen asking for legal age or permission of parents if you enter the gamble room.
Respect to all the legit hosts, Fun times! Full house! I hope Jagex hands this well.
Except that Runescape is not the real world. Runescape is a game, made of code, and is much, much, much more controlled than real life. We're not talking about eliminating gambling from the world - just from Runescape. And that's quite different, and much more manageable.
I agree that a courtesy warning would've been nice, if they're punishing for gambling/hosting period. If they're just enforcing their existing rules against spam onto a group that has previously gotten away with it, though, there's nothing wrong with that. And if they've taken a new look at the rules and decided that gambling is actually against one of the standing rules, then the same thought applies - though again, a courtesy warning wouldn't be amiss.
Regardless, I'm rather excited to see Jagex finally really addressing this matter, and I hope they continue to do so.
Oh, and also, I think some of you are looking at this the wrong way: Punishment for the sake of punishment is silly; it's not that you earn or deserve a mute because you've been bad. A mute prevents you from continuing to have a negative impact on the experience of others, and encourages you to change your behavior in the future. I wouldn't even call it a punishment, really. And considering that being muted doesn't have a permanent effect (as opposed to being banned), you really can just consider that to be your warning, can't you? Sure, it's an inconvenience, and I do agree that an announcement wouldn't have been amiss, but it's not like you can't keep playing normally once the mute expires in two days. No real harm done, neh?
(I've been playing a fair bit of League of Legends lately, and delving into the reasoning behind their own system of player support, and that's given me a new perspective on player behavior as a whole.)
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Also, hey, your account didn't get hacked, as old pseudo-abandoned accounts often do, so that's another plus!
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I'm excited, largely about solo DG xp. Not because I find it difficult to find teams or whatnot, but because Runescape has always been my place to go solo. My stats are dependent on nothing and no one other than myself, and if I want to turn chat off and interact with nobody, I can do that. Generally I spend my time in a wonderful friends & clan chat, but I don't have to. If I want a high-teamwork gaming experience, I go play LoL. But for me, Runescape has never been the place for that.
I have no problem with others getting better xp rates than I do if they choose to do it in a group, for all the reasons that have been mentioned - I think it's a cool opportunity, even if I don't use it myself. I just want to be able to play Runescape solo, like I have from the beginning, and still be able to get half-decent XP rates. *shrug*
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Eh, I'm not terribly upset over their change (and what I dislike is really just that they went back on their word in two different ways), but I would rather have the charm drops doubled than the experience doubled for summoning. I think it makes more sense for the skill, for the exact same reasons that Jagex gave for not giving it the 2x bonus on their previous BXPWs.
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It's his life, and his choice, and while everyone has the right to free speech, everyone also has the right to look at someone else and call them an idiot for the way they choose to use it. Also, you don't have any such right for your free speech to be heard (or read).
I'm rather surprised that people are seriously complaining about their donations going to waste. You made that donation hoping, even expecting, him to get 5b, but you knew (or at least should have known) that for whatever reasons, he might not get there. So if you're really getting that upset over it, expect nothing more than for folks like me to laugh at you for being upset about silly things like pixels.
(Also on the note of RS gp having RL cash value - you do remember that selling gold is illegal, right? It's worth something to you, yes, but probably not in terms of cash, more in terms of the time it took to get it.)
"about silly things like pixels"
THIS type of argument really irritates me. You do know we spend HOURS upon HOURS on "silly pixels". We 'enjoy' it and you can't judge on what we consider fun or not.
Time IS money. What don't people get about that. Instead of playing runescape, if you get a part time job then your EARNING MONEY.
And YOU already chose to spend your time on pixels, not on jobs. And then YOU chose to give those pixels to someone else, hoping they would do what you wanted with them, but with zero guarantees. And when they come back with a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they won't be accomplishing that goal you donated towards, YOU chose to get upset, and to complain about it here, and to get upset at us as well when we pointed out that maybe you didn't think things through when you donated all that cash (if you did; if you didn't then why are we even talking about it?).
I've put several years into my Runescape account, and I value it a fair deal. It is more than just pixels, yes. But I don't just give away my precious pixels to anyone who asks - and if I do, I don't complain about it afterward.
Edit: Likewise, I value my art. I don't just give it away to random people either. And if I do, so long as they don't shred it in front of me and treat it with some degree of respect, I don't complain about whether they hang it on their fridge or give it to their kindergartener. SUOMI made progress. He also provided perfectly valid reasons (in my eyes, at least) as to why he won't be finishing. I don't see that anyone has cause to be upset about him wasting their cash.
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Im willing to say 70% of runescape is an active botter as in someone botting a skill or goldfarming.
Im willing to say that 90% of runescape has botted on the account they are on.
I wouldn't put it higher than 40% & 60%, and if you really believe your numbers, I don't understand why you play this game at all.
well people do want those nice stats and access to any new quests that come out so its not really fair to say that you have to train your agility to 80 for the new quest even though its 30+ hours of boring work.Sure it is. Everyone who gets to play that new quest with the 80 agility requirement had to train their agility to 80. What's not fair is for someone to skip the work that everyone else put in because they feel entitled to do so. You get mad at people who randomly cut in line in front of you, right? Not a perfect analogy, since someone else doing a quest doesn't necessarily delay you from doing the same quest, but it's similar.
See whats going on here?Yes. You're playing Runescape, instead of WoW. It's a different game, it works differently, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to play something more like WoW, try playing more WoW. (And the same applies to anyone coming in from another game and justifying their botting on Runescape by saying that other games aren't as much work.)
Jagex is compareable to bots in way they disrupt the game balance by making people get better fashion items with money, or get auras by paying money month after month instead of the choice to pay for a month when you can and want to play Runescape(healthy playing).
But those options are pretty much equally available to everyone (without getting into issues of how much income you have to spend on Runescape). Bots aren't, not really. I can't say I have any experience with it myself, but I'm guessing that the bots which actually work are probably run by a small group (in comparison to all Runescape players), and you have to be "in" in order to make use of them. Also, because they aren't being run by companies, with all the safety networks companies provide, you really don't know if you're getting what you pay bot-makers for, or if you're potentially getting malware or the like, and you have little to no avenue of recourse if it steals your account and/or breaks your computer (as opposed to a legit company, where you could contact customer support and/or file lawsuits).
And it seems with Squeal and Soloman's shop that this disrupting of game balance have been taken up a notch.At one point they may sell items.
And that point is when I will flip a table in anger, if they start directly selling items that provide significant in-game benefits. We haven't gotten there yet, and I still hope that we won't ever.
Then the question all of you who dislike bots can ask yourself "If Jagex is ruining the spirit of game by allowing people to buy items, which devalues the achievement of people who played Runescape the RIGHT WAY, then what's the big problem with bots then?".Again, I'm still hoping we won't get there.
One can also ask the question: is it better to fight bots or not? For example, prices go down. There will be comptition at monster spots (non boss ones), but then you can use little money to buy pots to go kill big bosses which are places bots aren't to good at.You also can't make money as a production-style skiller, because the bots are undercutting you all over the place.
And if Jagex expanded Runescape map and monster spots, then it should theoretically keep certain big boss areas empty for many non botters plus skilling spots for non combat players.Or, more likely, more bots will come in and fill the extra space, just as they have done already.
Instead of focusing to much attention on bots (who will probably be around at end of Runescape), one should focus on improving the community spirit, the gameplay of Runescape and fairness of the game.If you improve community - you will have a bunch of players volunteering to fight bots.
If you improve gameplay - happy players. Happy players creates potential more volunteers.
And if you update Runescape in a fair way (Soloman is not fair for example), then players will again be happy and show respect back to the company.
And if you start making botting permissible, you'll have a ton of massively high level accounts that have no actual investment in the game itself, and a massive turnover rate of new players when they see that no one actually plays the game until they've botted their way to all 99s, and everyone who actually does that then quits because there's nothing fun to do anymore.
A major draw of Runescape, and other games like it, is that you get to make slow progress towards some massive goals - this is rather enjoyable, even if you don't always reach them. If you can just shell out $20 for a program to do it all for you, that kind of ruins the point, don't you think? That is why I actively dislike bots.
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It's his life, and his choice, and while everyone has the right to free speech, everyone also has the right to look at someone else and call them an idiot for the way they choose to use it. Also, you don't have any such right for your free speech to be heard (or read).
I'm rather surprised that people are seriously complaining about their donations going to waste. You made that donation hoping, even expecting, him to get 5b, but you knew (or at least should have known) that for whatever reasons, he might not get there. So if you're really getting that upset over it, expect nothing more than for folks like me to laugh at you for being upset about silly things.
(Also on the note of RS gp having RL cash value - you do remember that selling gold is illegal, right? It's worth something to you, yes, but probably not in terms of cash, more in terms of the time it took to get it.)
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Might be hard to understand why I would stop like this when I am so close but just gotta do what feels the best for you.
Definitely. Hope to still see you around now and then, sir.
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the main thing is that with enough time, bots will eventually start attempting to control the things you actually do care about, even though at the moment you may not think such a thing will ever happen to you
it is foolish to think that they, like anybody else in rs, will ever be satisfied at some point and not go that step further, when they already have done it a million times over
Of course, but until that time that they do move on to bigger and better things they don't have a major impact on my gameplay. At that time I will want them out not only for being detrimental to the game as a whole but because they directly harm me. However, we're not there yet.
And even though it's inevitable that they will at least attempt to get there, you're okay with waiting for the problem to surface before wanting to do something about it, instead of pre-emptively solving it? Interesting.
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After reading the posts about Summoning I feel like I just read the same argument and counter argument about 20 times over.
I have no issue with the x1.1 limit being lifted, (I would take full advantage of it myself if I wasn't already 99) I do, however, have an issue with Jagex taking another U-turn on their stance of the skill in relation to bexp weekends.
I'm pretty sure they said themselves when they first changed it that Summoning was so different in the way that you gained exp that it would be unbalanced to give it a 2x boost.
I swear they backtrack and U-turn on previous policies more than politicians.
Yep, they do that a lot...
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You cannot prove something to be true; you can only prove something to be false. Thus the (US) court systems have the "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" bit for criminal cases (and "prove more likely than not" for civil).
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I still don't see how it's that different from herb, or fm, or crafting, or any buyable skill. For all those skills, you can buy the stuff and save a ton of time by just doing the xp-bearing activities during BXPW. The only difference with summoning is that you can't buy the charms; you have to gather them manually. I don't really understand why that means it must be treated completely differently. (DIY accounts treat every "buyable" that way, gathering all the resources themselves. Should they then be limited to less bonus xp on all their skills? I understand that's a player choice, rather than the game creators' choice, but still.)
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I dislike that they actively said not to prep for another, then changed their mind. Would've been fine if they said they were reconsidering the whole idea and then had another bxpw anyway, but actively saying not to prep for it bothers me. Yes, they're trying to prevent people from hoarding materials to resell at ridonkulous prices, which is nice - this is why I'm fine with them announcing it merely a week beforehand (I like that, actually) - but don't get into making white lies to accomplish your goals. It's just not a good place to be, either as a person or as a company.
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Let's see: one bot does it once in a blue moon because he can't be arsed to click repetitively for hours.
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Another bot does it for many days and floods the economy with goods to fulfill its masters' needs.
I'll go with the latter.
This, but I hate the former a great deal as well.
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Considering that the Terms of Use had players state that they were 13 or older (at least, till the invention of quickchat worlds), there's probably not anyone willing to state they were <13 when they maxed.
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It doesn't happen at a good time...right after I start my next account :/
Saves an equal amount of time regardless of xp/hour. Although you do lose a bit since you'll have to travel around some. It'll probably be beneficial if fpf tickets don't work.
To add to this, bonus xp saves an equal amount of time whether you spend your bonus hours getting 1-90 and then doing 90+ off bonus xp or if you get 1-90 beforehand then spend an equal amount of time during bonus xp getting 90+.
Since it's actually a bonus for a period of time, rather than a specific amount of xp, it's actually rather different. At level 90, say, you have access to the best courses and can get a great deal of xp per hour - at level 1, you can get far, far less xp per hour because you can only use the starting course. While they both get doubled, the end result is still higher for 90+ than for 1-90.
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Small crafting crate. 24 dragon leather and 8 thread at a time are withdrawn from the crate itself, un-noted.
Are you able to trade/sell these? If so, a 600k gp award is not bad for an uncommon slot. If not, it's still interesting compromise between skill amulets and instant xp.
I don't think the crates themselves are tradable, but the materials you get from them probably are.
I was seriously debating between taking the crate and taking the 40k gold substitute, since I had no idea what would be inside... glad I took the crate! (121 blue drag leather and some thread for me.)
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"- Allows for a better determination of a player's committment to the game."
There is a substantial difference between commitment and enjoyment. Commitment is already measured. To keep my completionist cape I have to do every half assed quest and piece of content they introduce in the game now. It's not hard to mass produce content just to see if your players are "commited." On the flip side it's extrememely difficult to create content that people actually continually playing after release day. Not because they have to, but because they want to. That is what Jagex needs to be focusing on now, and quite frankly, they are doing a horrible job of it.
Some of their recent re-works have been amazing. Granted they should be as polished on day of launch, but I really enjoyed the update temple trekking.
Yeah, I really like the update to Al-Kharid, as well. Looking forward to them working on the rest of the desert.
I do think many of their reworks wind up looking just a bit too... busy. Too much stuff going on to easily take everything in. But that's so far in the other direction, for Runescape, that it's okay, heh.
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Just because we can think of reasons it's a good idea, doesn't mean it should be done. I can think of reasons that pouring syrup over my head is a good idea (tasty! other people can lick me without being awkward!), but that doesn't mean I should do it. There are downsides to every potential change, and in this case those downsides massively outweigh the benefits.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that maxing is bad... or at least, that we should have as few maxed players as possible. I can't say that I agree with that idea. For a lot of players, our end goal is to max, or get quest cape, or comp cape, or the like. Making any of those goals so far out of reach that less than 100 people of the thousands of players of this game could re-max is not a goal we should be aiming for.
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Might be difficult to manage that, if the player in question isn't clearly doing a particular method based on their xp gain (if they're gaining att/range/slay xp, clearly they're slaying with a cannon + melee wep, likely rapier) and isn't making videos on the subject.
A community divided
in General Discussion
Posted
Do I think 07scape will be around for as long as live? Lolno. (Props to Jagex for investing a lot of resources into making something happen for those who have massive nostalgia, and more power to those who are playing it, but I really don't expect many new players to get involved, and I doubt I'll even log on myself.)
Do I think it's massively divided the community? Also lolno.