thejollyroger

I hope I can make this clear: the articles are well-written enough, and I hope you'll trust me as a reasonable source on that. I am a bit weary of the 07 vs. live/2013 distinctions, though, and I'm looking forward to a change of topic. That said... @Alg and "Beginner's Guide to EoC p. 1" I'll be very impressed if this eventually is distilled to website content. Although I favor RS Wiki(a) these days for quick reference, I still think Tip.It still has strength for in-depth content and format, especially with Treasure Trails. An EoC guide would be a real gem. I hadn't used my 3 crystal bows in a long time, but they are generally my go-to weapon of choice while ranging, until I have enough saved for dual chaotic crossbows. Even then I may still use them for arrow-weak monsters, since maintenance cost is WAY lower. I'll use a Zamorakian spear when inventory is at a premium, but for now, I prefer dual wielding Korasi's sword and an off-hand chaotic rapier for most stab-weak Slayer tasks. (I generally don't do bossing, save maybe demon flash mobs.) @The Floating Pen & "The Future" Sums up a lot of what I've heard from other players over the past few years. For the record, I will laugh and laugh if I get my wish and Squeal of Fortune is removed only to be put more deeply in-game as a "gambling solution". So amusingly ironic that would be. No way do I want Solomon's to go away, however, I think it's a very legitimate way of me saying, "Hiya Jagex developers, I like this, consider putting something similar into the main game in exchange for my business." Some of my best Runescape friends rather agree, I think, considering they've got more of this cosmetic content than I do! I'm ready. I'm also ready for the HTML5 switch to more firmly engrain the stereotype that the only game viable-to-play on Linux is Runescape, and the usual epithets were uttered (or implied) when I saw this stereotype discussed, but hey, eat my fat apathy, kiddie haters, y'know? Until Obsidian releases Project Eternity, I don't have much else RPG goodness to play besides maybe wringing out a few more bitter miles out of NWN1 (say hi to qeltar and mention DDO isn't available and D&D 3.0/3.5 sucks). I'm not that interested in the silly antiquated-looking RPGs indie devs are doing for Linux, much less that Steam still has problems. There's still that Windows multiboot, but I'm tired, hurt like hell, and don't feel like messing with that again just yet.

Theory: It means they couldn't use reverse engineering techniques like injection or reflection and would have to use more easy to detect methods of botting such as colour picking? That's what I'd read, so again, remember I said "if I remember right". I appreciate JoWie's explanation: I've been wrong before and I freely admit that coding/scripting/programming isn't much my forte (tried for over 20 years, but I'm looking to try again with Python). I do feel I should clarify that despite the similar names, however, Java and Javascript are not even CLOSE to being the same thing. Vulnerabilities are therefore going to be different. Apologies if this was already understood. I should also emphasize that security is most important to me, and I believe that's why the switch to HTML5 is coming about. Oracle has yet to fix that plug-in vulnerability properly. The base game will still likely use Java, but Jagex won't be using a means of putting it on the browser that is so vulnerable still. While I'm already pretty happy that Runescape supports OpenGL, I think things will just only get better for players on Linux in terms of performance and stability... although the community fretted hard about codecs (mostly H.264). I have every reason to believe we on Linux will be better served with HTML5.

I care mostly about the security and anti-cheat aspects that HTML5 can bring, honestly. I've read so much press about Java browser plug-in exploits lately and how Oracle is just failing, failing miserably on that. The HTML5 implementation, instead of a Java applet, should neatly sidestep that in most respects. The nice side benefit if I remember right is it's harder to scrape visual data so bots should have a much harder time. I also figure HTML5 should be MUCH better supported in Linux, which is my OS of choice these days. Yeah, I know that's what Jagex's servers run but... client side isn't terribly smooth, mostly with sound cutting in and out. (Yes, I'm speaking very broadly and as an Ubuntu/Mint user.) I'm using HikariKnight's port of the client, and... well, I'm excited about using HTML5 rather than using open source Java (OpenJDK). I'll be very curious though as to what codec will be used, or if we'll even have a client anymore. Yeah, performance will go up for everyone regardless of OS... but I suspect it'll be VERY obvious for Linux users. (I mean, Google Chrome is a memory pig these days... I have run it with Runescape in the past, but... *sigh* I just want a client/"empty" browser.)

My pet peeves are mostly with sloppy post-EoC fixes and changes. 1. (and foremost for me) Fix Livid Farm, specifically with Pauline and the Suqah distraction. Although Energy Transfer was removed from the Lunar spellbook, it still technically exists, and also requires the corresponding runes, for this instance. It worked wonderfully with the old Special Attack code, since the SA bar was full by default. Modified to use the Adrenaline bar, it fails miserably. It makes no sense to me to be grinding something non-combat by design, to suddenly run out of the Farm and do some combat to fill the bar to 50%. just to recover some runes. It's probably very, very low on Jagex's priority list, because it's been broken for quite some time. 2. Poison is a joke. I appreciate that the current implementation created a demand for weapon poison potions (and that it counts broadly to all attack types), but... they just aren't practical that I can see. It's almost as if they negated need for antipoisons, because I used to need them for the Jade Vine, cave slimes, etc. but now, I can usually tank it out. Since Jagex has no problem borrowing ideas from other games, I'd prefer to see poison return to weapons, but with limited use. In other words, weapons hold only so much poison, then it must be reapplied. This should reinstate Karambwan paste nicely. I'm not sure how it would be cleanly implemented, but I'd figure ranged ammo should be one use per projectile. I'm disappointed disease (Zogres at Jiggjg) was dropped entirely, but... I won't go into that here. 3. Bring back use of catalytic runes. I wish Jagex would have thought things through before largely eliminating the need for catalytic runes on the Modern and Ancient spellbooks. Lunar remains unchanged... how is that fair? It seems like an awkward bot-preventing measure by Jagex, more rather when you consider that Daily Challenges and the Rune Mysteries/Rune Memories quest seem to be saturating the market with essence as if to make them almost free. The reworking of Ancient Magicks to being elementally based seems... weird. See #2. I'd suggest at least that Smoke Spells return alongside the reworked "Gale" versions with full catalytic rune requirements. I don't know how Jagex would "keep" an option to let mages poison with Modern spells, but again, drinking potions is ... dumb, IMO. 4. Divine Storm. All I want, really, is some sort of quest/storyarc explanation-- y'know, a PROPER retcon! Claws of Guthix was an old favorite spell of mine, but, a proper retcon is all I want. 5. I agree the combat formula is busted, and I suspect that it has a broader impact on Herblore than just Overloads. I've read the previous comments, lots I would respond to, but I've rambled enough.

Another player I knew suggested that many are just dusting off old scripts. I haven't heard much talk of bots in the current game-- I think there are some, but I don't see many. But I do hear plenty from those on the "Old School" servers. I figure the August 2007 snapshot is a much easier target right now, and from what I know of scripting, I'd gather combat bots are a little more difficult to set up and maintain than skilling ones. I'm also guessing they've got a little bit of a headstart; I seriously doubt Jagex brought bot-busting there up to the level of the current game. I also think that the nostalgia factor has been slightly overstated. Many members of a clan I used to be in went over to the Old School servers. Yeah, I suppose some went for nostalgia, but I think more went back to return to the old skill -> coins -> sink coins back into skill. I remember a few stating just that, before and after the servers were implemented. They really do prefer the older workings of the economy. I think a small number are opposed to having the God Wars Dungeon being reimplemented, too, because that's more or less when the shift started.

Love this idea... definitely workable in terms of code, I think, too. We've already got the pedals at the Blast Furnace that generate a little Agility XP, and that code shouldn't be too tough to put elsewhere. Or have the drill instructor random event automatically give a good chunk of agility exp? I did want to see the demon drill instructor come back in some fashion, or at least that really sweet agility course. Again, existing code can Jagex can reuse... A new POH module would be doubly awesome! But first, Jagex has got to do something about fixing the balance beam and the pugel sticks (which I think are counted as magical staves for some odd reason), because that would be the place to put it, in a POH combat room, off to the side.

The way I understand the EoC changes is this: Abilities replaced special attacks, and made them broadly available to all weapons, be they melee, ranged, or maged based. This was pretty streamlined, because the mechanics are the same for each combat type-- magic, in fact, was changed so that damage is figured out the same way as Melee and Ranged (if I understand right). Lemme back up, put it another way: abilities are structured in a similar way for Melee, Ranged, and Magic-- some damage over time, some multiattack, some chain attack... you get the idea. Defense and Hitpoints got more relevance with their own abilities too, but as they are basically shared to all the combat triangle, it evens out, at least in theory. I was never interested in KO weapons, because I don't really do PvP, and I think more of PvM benefits. The vine upgrade to the abyssal whip comes first to my mind. If you'll allow me to put aside the issue of melee bias in the game, I'd say I rather liked the Call Vine SA, because it was somewhat close to area effect damage for a melee weapon. (Not to mention it was a WHOLE lot more useful than the abyssal whip's base SA.) Then again, poison was a significant factor, too... and that's a whole different issue I won't get into here save I don't like Jagex's "be like Thok now" approach to poison post-EoC. But speaking of whips, yeah, healing weapons have been severely compromised with "passive abilities", and, to wit, Excalibur became the modified off-hand compliment to the abyssal (vine) whip-- I think supposedly because the devs haven't figured out how to animated an off-hand whip. (I think they should simply modify the whip to be 2-handed... much easier, I think, but, again, another discussion.) Don't get me wrong, I thought it'd be nice for some mechanics like those special attacks to return. I thought of similar ideas myself. The niche uses aren't really covered by current abilities. But I have no idea either how it'd be done and not imbalance things more than they are already (or at least without making things much more complicated). He means that you'd be able to gain xp on your weapons and then level them up, giving them increased stats. I'm not very fond of that idea myself. Well... I support the idea, and I'll tell you why. I've got chronic pain issues IRL, so much of the time, bossing just really isn't my idea of a good time, and I tend to be a grouchy middle-aged man that doesn't like to play with others more than a few individuals or a small group. I'm a so-called "Soloscaper", y'know? The weapons that Jagex thinks are appropriate to my level require some sort of bossing or grinding that I can't sit still through long enough without more painkillers. Even chaotic weapons at Daemonheim are a stretched-out, far-off goal. I dusted off my spent crystals and recharged them back to bows, and they are my go-to Ranged weap because I just can't reach crossbows higher than rune or a Zaryte. So darned right I'm going to want to make what I've got a little more useful. I'll gladly sink some raw mats into it if I have to, I'm already grinding out Ports over many days just to get some decent armour. The first person that replies "shut up u noob bossing and Dunge is easy" is gonna get a nice photo of the two scars on my back where they cut me open and did surgery to fuse a few bones. Don't think I won't... but I don't think you wanna see it, because it's only inches above the CRACK that kills, get me? I've been faithfully paying my membership since 2004 or so and have sunk a little bit into some Solomon's stuff, so I think I'm reasonably entitled to ask Jagex for some stuff that's a little more to my liking. The young adults want a more mature Runescape, they'll have to consider a few wants of the older players, too. *cough* But I digress...

I was actually discussing this with a friend, and she put some ideas out on the RSOF. One idea was to make all armours degradable, but NOT repairable by money-- repairable by bars. Item sinks were mentioned, and that would be one. Extending that further-- make non-combat skilled stuff in demand, by having items require bars, or unstrung bow/stocks/bowstrings, or hides, etc. -- instead of straight money. It shouldn't be simply ammo being the depletable good, because high-tier weapons tend to skirt this anyways (Zartye bow, for example). Speaking of ammo real quick, I'd like Jagex to separate gem tips from bolt metal type already. It's quite silly to have elemental weaknesses be a magic-only thing. Think about it. Even before EoC, players generally didn't touch anything below emerald, and sadly, I think poison is a joke now. I mean, more specifically-- Enchanted opal bolts (Lucky lightning) Enchanted jade bolts (Earth's fury) Enchanted pearl bolts (Sea curse) If they have air, earth, and water based damage respectively, and would be effective on monsters with those elemental weaknesses BUT the tips could be attached to any bolt metal type, wouldn't you use them more? I remember pearl bolts being reasonably effective on Fire Giants, pre-EOC but as they are currently attached to iron bolts, the damage output overall wasn't very worth it, much less for anything stronger. Ruby, diamond, dragonstone, and onyx should probably stay more or less where they are. (Dragonstone is obviously fire-based, and according to Jagex's current elemental interpretation of Ancient Magicks, blood also equates to fire.) [Quick gripe: I'm not terribly happy how fire-based spells is now the effective way to kill zogres instead of brutal arrows. Pot shot at Fletching, I tell ya.] Back to the other idea my friend had- was to remove raw mats from monster drops, well, if I remember what she said right, ores, mostly. It's rather crazy now that ores are quicker to get by monster drops than actually mining them, and especially so for the higher level ores. I'd say mithril is especially miserable, and considering Dracae's last "Did You Know?" tip, why yes, I do recall buying a lot of mithril ores from Ordan to complete mithril ceremonial. Of course the question always remains "How do you keep that from being skill botted?" Well, PoP, and perhaps to a lesser extent Manage Thy Kingdom might be the future of skilling, to keep things instanced to a certain extent. I wouldn't mind if BOTH of those were expanded further than they are now. With the bars idea... well, then there's a reason for skillers to keep playing PoP, if only for their own armor. The shark soup code should be re-implemented, maybe with tiger sharks or something... I dunno. Okay, going to get out of the way now. Oh, and all y'all, before you judge my ideas, let's recount that churning was automated (server-side by Churn-X at first, people here said bah), Cooking Guild got a bank, and mages got craftable robes (I was told that was a stupid idea, now I say, gee, it happened, just not the way I'd thought). In other words, suggestions that people criticized... Jagex put it in.

Its a video game. You're on private property, you follow the rules of the property owner. It is that black and white. I feel like he's trying to make some philosophic point about the world not being black and white - it's just a shame it fell short of the mark because he based it off a dodgy premise (the obeying of authority). Because, well, obeying authority (that has genuine power over you in some respect eg service provider, game provider, law, boss etc.) is black and white - you obey or disobey and if the later you face the consequences. Indeed. Moral relativism has had much better arguments that I've seen. Not that I agree with it personally, but I do say the point could have been much better debated. I've already said my peace concerning a guest/host relationship here. Jagex has made it pretty clear that as the ultimate hosts here, they find player-run gambling (as stated) an abuse of their hospitality (I speak generally, and not interested in boring debates about whether 'hospitality' is an appropriate term or not). If the players, as guests, decide to abuse what Jagex calls manners, and get themselves banned, I have no sympathy for them, at all. I haven't heard any good arguments against the more drastic measures players might do: private servers and all that rot. I mean, hey, maybe a ban isn't enough. Maybe the option of lawsuits sparks a deeper discussion. Am I right? I mean, I do think the premise of "obey authority" is not only dodgy-- it seems immature to me. Again, "freedom of choice" also includes "just make your own damned game already".

Thanks. I'd have a real good chuckle if Jagex decided to be exceptionally cheeky about it and implement it somewhere obviously shady-looking: the Rogue's Den, the Thieves' Guild, or the Draynor Jail. I'd give bonus points if Snotgut and Scrambles were somehow involved, too. Or even better, Whelps... err, I mean Yelps, in game. Oh. How would it be different from the Rat Pits? I'm rather surprised that didn't get more attention, or at least a makeover. Well, I gather they want more control over the economy, based on previous statements and what are considered moneysinks. Randomized. Hmm. Players have already discussed psuedorandom number generators at great length; what other code would they use? p.s. I forgot to mention I smiled reading Dracae's tip... Ordan sadly seems to be the most time-efficient way to grab mithril. I wish Jagex would address that because even adamant ore is easier to straight-mine gather.

re: "Divided we Lawl" I think if Andrew called the prototype game "DeviousMUD", then he fully intended the game to eventually be on a par with the emerging MMOs of the day. "MMORPG" was not just yet a widely used term, although that was changing, and the older "MUD" reference fell out of favor. Online gaming changed drastically from my childhood days. My childhood was the Golden Age of arcade video games, with consoles bringing that era to a close, and the rise of gaming on personal computers. I was finishing my undergraduate studies more or less when Everquest started. Runescape came when I was taking a serious re-evaluation of my life's hopes and dreams, if you'll pardon the melodramatic tone. There is relatively little nostalgia for me in older versions of the game. I still compare the '07 snapshot community to the one behind RS1 called Classic when the RS2 beta came along, although I admit the 07 community has a lot better chance of surviving longer, IMO. But I'm a storyteller sort of gamer, and since story arcs are with the more recent version of the game, that is where my choice remains. I have other games, some non-pixelated/digital I still play, but that's another discussion. RS 2013 is my primary time-waster. re: "The State of Play" already said enough on a recent update thread-- http://forum.tip.it/...ce/page__st__80 quoting myself is strange but it's the easiest way to keep it as pithy as I can, oh, and well, I somewhat agree with the "Regulate" option, but I need some clarifications, Slypheed, on how this differs from Squeal of Fortune or other hardcoded probability. We're talking for pure coin, not XP, right? I regard SoF as lazy coding (base concept, not necessarily coding specifically on the prizes) and would prefer to see a better full-in-game alternative.

re: Momentum- more convenient for bots as well as legitimate players. I really do hope the HTML5 switch brings better bot-busting capability. re: Brink of Extinction and Fight Cauldron: it is impossible for me to be a teenager with twitchy fingers. I don't care how easy it was for certain people, I couldn't do it, and can't do it (yet), and rather resent that Jagex has made questing so bossing-dependent lately. re: Player-run gambling: I understand probability well enough. Humans are emotional creatures, however, and it just can't be a level playing field with users directly involved. I'm glad Jagex's stance is clearer. I have no sympathy for hosts and find any claims of fair play highly dubious. Even in real life... the house always wins in the end. Moreover, the house is Jagex, not players. Players are not the ultimate hosts, Jagex is. Players are guests. That is how I see it, anyways. The guest/host relationship is a strong concept for me. If they don't like it, they are free to create their own independent game. The hosts have spoken, the guests can either be gracious to their hosts, or go home. re: other patches/updates: Diango is even more loveable now. I will probably exhaust my heartbreak pendant first before leaving the Val's stuff to him.

Care to elaborate? http://services.rune...tar&lookup=view And also this, with his opinions on the current game explored here. Intriguing. I hadn't expected him to be so pro-'07. But I'm guessing his circumstances are quite, quite different from mine. I'll sum up: 1. Don't really have the time, money, patience to successfully set up Windows again. I'm productive as I like to be on Linux. That means, however that... 2. ...I don't really have many other game options to go to (it would take too long to explain why I'm frustrated with Steam on Linux). 3. There's not really anything I missed or want to go back to on '07... maybe a bit of how F2P quests looked for RS2, but that's about it. Not really something that draws me back. 4. I really do have real-life things that demand my time and energy, so I wasn't interested in a redo. Time for games is pretty limited. I know Esper Jones from elsewhere, can't remember exactly, but nice guy from what I do remember. His point-by-point discussions with qeltar, man, that's the best I've read in a long, long time. If I understand it right, qeltar's main gripes were D&Ds and to a minor extent the flurry of updates-- too much to keep up with. I agree with Esper, though-- the game doesn't NEED a rush to keep up with everything. And the SoF... well, this is my opinion: keep Solomon's, ditch SoF for something in-game. Something that is like the old Random Events, and can be done a limited amount of times. OR... make something that is Manage Thy Kingdom/Player-Owned Ports like. He makes an interesting case for the old unidentified herb code, but I'm waiting for him to explain how returning to that doesn't stop the return to scams. Now, him coming back to OSR from DDO... oh wow. Wow. Wow. I could spew a projectile stream of doctoral dissertations on how broken D&D version 3.5 is, which is its basis. (I played a lot of Neverwinter Nights 1 because Bioware was nice enough to release a Linux client, but ugh, ugh, the mechanics at high levels...) My wife and I are from the old, old wargaming school with the dice and the character sheets (pen and paper/tabletop RPGs, y'know?)... I will leave it at that and mercifully spare you the rest. Congratulations, though, if you manage to figure out who I am and find out what I did say on Ars Technica. Ha ha ha...

It's a shame he's moved on... he was one of the more mature voices in the player community. I've seen Qeltar on the OSRS forums. Care to elaborate? That's what he said on the RuneScoop (TruthScape) site on August 14, 2010. I'm going to guess he was keeping in touch. It would seem antithetical to "Don't Resent My Toilet" for him to come back and really be active in "Old School" RS. I'd expect him *maybe* at to say a few words on how EoC wasn't implemented well (still, even). It would seem odd for him to favor the August 2007 snapshot against the recent development of interfaces. So please, do tell.

People inclined towards Introversion generally find themselves most comfortable in their own company or small groups of people. They generally have no desire or need to be around groups of people small or large to be happy. Extroverted people can view this as shyness or disinterest but they are simply two perfectly valid personality types. Extroverts by contrast, generally become bored in their own company and generally need to be around other people to be comfortable and happy. Very generalised but that is essentially what the two mean. Being introverted simply means you use up energy in social interactions and "recharge" in solitude. Extroversion is the opposite. It's a spectrum, with most people lying somewhere between the two extremes. Yeah, I personally find this last definition best for me... loneliness and being alone are not necessarily the same. I treasure my alone time, because it DOES allow me time to recharge. I'm usually processing my social time during those periods, thinking about what people have had to say, and such. I do tend to prefer one-on-one or small group interactions to crowds. Anyways, speaking more broadly: I'm 38 years old. I've played video games since 1980, pen and paper RPGs since about 1984, live action since about 2000, and Runescape specifically since 2003. What's been referred to as "the gaming culture" has been a large part of my life. Anyone that would tease me for that has been ignored a long time ago. It's not my only hobby, though. I was involved in some team sports during my youth and young adult years. I really like to fly kites and I've worked with a local kitemaker of some minor fame. I have done gardening off and on since I was in high school. I was involved in computers and home audio for about as long. One very good friend I met through RS was a database administrator and now drives a truck long haul. I know Runescape seems like the scapegoat of the MMO world... and I'm aware of what the kids think. I started Runescape about when I was starting a family. I went through some really hard times with disability. I was judged pretty severely by this community at that time, and even Silverion had some harsh words to say that ... well, he does not know me a whit, really. Was I in too deep? I probably was. But I knew what was truly important in life. My daughter, a wee babe when I started, is now a J-pop obsessed "all arms and legs" tomboy and proud gamer girl. She snuck on FunOrb without me knowing, but she knows she's got to wait a few years before I'll let her make a Runescape account. She knows her mom (who had a presence here for a time, she doesn't play Runescape anymore) and I are dead serious about her schoolwork, although we had to jump some difficult hoops to get accommodations for some of her special needs. My son was born shortly before I left Tip.It for a time, and we learned he was high-functioning autistic a few years before I decided to be a little more active under this alias. Both of them are amused by what I do in this game, but anyone that knows me well knows I work hard for these kids. They know I'm disabled and unemployed, but still do a lot to provide for them. Don't blow your future on this game. It's not worth it. There's nothing wrong with spending some free time here, but it should be in measured, moderated amounts. Now, someone mentioned economics-- yep, here I go mentioning Duke Freedom again. I still believe that young man has got a future in economics... *if* he wants. He didn't seem particularly inclined to pursue such studies when I last talked to him, but that's okay. At best, though, a game or a simulation won't completely school you on any particular subject. I understand the weight issue... I've got to lose at least 100# myself. A back injury and years of psych medicine has made that difficult-- but-- the others here have some wisdom to what they say. Consider doing what I did and talk to a dietician/nutritionist. I don't think any of them would counsel you to skip meals. They might suggest some healthy snacks while you play-- cut vegetables, nuts, things like that. Most of it, really, is finding out how many calories you need in a day (for me, it's about 2-2.2K calories) and then figuring out what lifestyle choices you can make to achieve that... forever. Changes can't be temporary; they have to be changes you'll live with. I've been in the mental health community for 28 years (as a patient) and I have little to no shame saying so. Sure, I'm crazy, and I've got paperwork to prove it-- but there's nothing stopping me from having a fulfilling, productive life, and I have made good with some counseling, finally. I've met a fair number of cowardly and arrogant jerks in my time there, but... there's nothing wrong with asking for some help to get things sorted. You get out what you put in, I think, and I would agree that spending some time would be useful. I am reading a lot by what you say that does have me concerned... anything taken to an obsessive and compulsive degree really is not healthy, and I'm speaking frankly from my own experience. Kudos if anyone has read this far. I'll leave it right here.

It will be. Bots rather abuse Momentum already-- what's to stop them from abusing it more like that? I was of the understanding that yes, it's part of the reaction to Guthix's death. Well, members do. Summoning happened to be my lowest, and it's been a nice small slice of xp. Something like 1.3K xp a butterfly.

It's a shame he's moved on... he was one of the more mature voices in the player community.

Hamtaro is counting from the RS2 beta, not from RS1 called "Classic." I remember Ash saying this specifically. There was Habbo Hotel and Maple Story, that I recall. A few free MMOs came along (Guild Wars comes to mind), but more common was established MMOs starting up free versions of their games, with limited features. That's debatable, well, depending on how you define "grown up". Some of the most petty, drama-stirring players I have met have been my age or older (I'm 38). Plenty of my generation, Generation X, still wants to play games... the gaming market has changed drastically because of it. If adults aren't playing on games like Runescape-- they are playing crappy (IMHO) games on their smartphones, often by way of Facebook. (So yeah, I gave Jagex's "Login with Facebook" feature the stinkeye.) Ah, the ghost of Miniclip will never die. Runescape had an earlier sponsor-- Real Arcade, at Real Networks. They gave them some of the best advertising... I honestly haven't seen better since 2003. Anyways, yes, Jagex is DESPERATELY trying to shed their casual gaming roots. They really do want to run with "the big boy" MMOs, but they haven't shed those reputations. Hence we have a new crop of nostalgia-trippers that have no memory of the RS1/Classic rabid fans-- absolutely no clue that they are repeating a lot of history. Some things are different, but the arguments run so similar: "PKing was better" <insert early RS2, or RS1/Classic> "It was more simple" (Yeah, compared to RS2, RS1 *was* more simple!) and there's even a love for less detail. RS1 was very cartoony-looking... no, really, go look at some screenshots... either on the official site, or Wikia's RS Wiki. RS2 was... still kinda cartoony, in 3D. There's comparisons to what the future would bring: the RS1 Bestiary showed some concept animations that were not too far off from what was put in to the RS2 beta. Now we have a new HTML5 Bestiary that hints at what "RunescapeNEXT" might bring. Oh c'mon. Again, there are plenty of adults playing stupid Facebook games that will easily spend you under the table for these "microtransactions", without breaking a sweat. I saw it. I hope Duke Freedom is out there somewhere, laughing his fool head off. He's right, of course, that the kids will cry "unfair" while plenty of players their parents age will spend a small hobby's worth without blinking an eye. Don't get me wrong-- I do find Whelps... err, Yelps annoying. It's a pity, I think, that Jagex dismantled random events (some bits survive) and then essentially dumped those rewards on the wheel. We did get Evil Trees and Star Sprites that superceded the Ent and Mining Golem randoms, but they didn't do more with the others... although Mr. Mordaut (the dragon teacher) got a voice for the Gielinor Games. HOWEVER... Solomon's is a success, and why shouldn't it be? Even the most idealistic, hard-nosed players I know... they have trouble denouncing cosmetic microtransactions. A few of them buy up the new outfits and animations as amuses them. I think if we'd gotten just Solomon's but not SoF, more players would be harder pressed to complain. I mean, really now. Again... I don't know if they are all adults, but they are buying up Solomon stuff like mad. I see it all over the place. I bought Samurai Cooking myself, and if a player has a problem with that... phhtt, whatever. $5 that says, "Gee, I like what the devs did here, more please." Maybe. MMG has talked about the possibility of secondary accounts tied to a main. I never ever understood secondary/"noob" accounts, really, and they've been around since the beginning. Why would I say this? Oh, I remember when Uloveme traded something to me on a "noob" account-- Uloveme3 or something like that. I'll be amazed if many people remember who she was. Or Lilyuffie33. Or S1acker, for that matter. But no. This community's got a short memory, and doesn't remember most of the old ranked players. Except maybe Peter Zezima... who I hope has given another Peter... Albosky, that is, a kick in the pants by now. Nostalgia? Hah. What nostalgia? Oh, I know it's out there, but there's enough of the community that's not running around making YouTube videos saying "This is my childhood!" I've already explained myself... Runescape came along at a hard time in my life. At best, my kids are amused BY THE CURRENT GAME. Not 07, but that EoC version far too many are whining about. I wish qeltar was still here. "Don't Resent My Toilet" comes to mind. The site was called Truthscape, but is known as Roonscoop.com now, slowly rusting away because he ditched the game and the site completely. Still apt, though. I mean, really... I like the new skilling interfaces. Why any of you would want to go back to risks of repetitive stress injuries (RSIs) is beyond me, but just wait. Just wait 'til you get tennis elbow (you can get it using the mouse too much), or digital eye strain, maybe even beginnings of carpal tunnel. I've had a few RSIs... they are NOT fun. I take the long view... Runescape is there for me when I want it. Granted, I'm running pure Linux at the moment, and well, Steam has problems. Gaming really is pretty sparse save for silly FPS stuff and museum pieces (old games that were ported over and saved for "nostalgia") Maybe one day I'll finally get a multiboot with Windows working, but... I actually get real work done now. *groan* Bored players, that's what the argument is there, and it's... boring. Really, has the Order of Cabbage faded from the community consciousness here? Maybe they outlived their F2P purpose, especially since the remaining people I know went on to membership. They really were amazing, though... doing so much with so little and having a blast. I suspect Blackbane is still jamming in his band, or something. Take a break. A long one. I did. Plenty, plenty, plenty of others, right here did.... or moved on. I can still remember how huge swiftymcvae's account sellout was. *grumble grumble* Whatever. Y'all got a short memory. I'm cursed to have a very long one, especially of all the crap here.

@Dracae "Gods and Humans": Sorry... this article felt like it stumbled and wandered a little bit. Compositionally speaking, I mean. The concept isn't a bad one, though. I think a philosophy student would care, since it's a metaphysical discussion of sorts. I've been a bit obsessed with Joseph Campbell lately: his whole idea of The Hero's Journey/Monomyth. I speak generally-- his broader notion that we still enjoy storytelling, and our mass multimedia draws still from the old stories-- even if scholars disagree if we all follow that monomyth cycle retelling those stories or not. I'd say Jagex was drawing pretty heavily from Greco-Roman concepts of gods being petty and greedy, and a friend of mine (she's around here now and then) agreed. Another aspect is that the world is seen as harsh and unforgiving when controlled by more raw forces of nature (titans/elementals), but Jagex puts a twist on this: Gielinor is largely peaceful, but is slowly overrun by denizens of another world which has that harsh, chaotic existence. My friend suggested this was Andrew and Paul's influence. They've moved on to a certain extent, so newer Jagex employees fleshed ideas out in a different but interesting way. I still say Jagex has got too much Catholicism/Anglicism on the brain, because so much that's connected to Saradomin has those tired old stereotypes. They also echo Neil Gaiman's suggestion that justice is fled from the world (Justice was an absent personification in Gaiman's Sandman, Jagex has Armadyl get trounced). I digress and drift off-topic, though. Well, that's what Ash was poking fun about in Love Story. The interactions between Dionysius "The Wise Old Man" and Ze... (not going to try to bother spelling that odd name) were a lot of satire and chariactures about player behavior. The real Kathy Corkat (yeah, the NPC was based on a player) told me that she figured Jagex was moving to new ideas of play... but that players hadn't really changed. To wit, one of those points was the average Runescape player wasn't much of a roleplayer-- they just liked whatever seemed "cool". Ms. Z claimed herself she had no loyalty to Zamorak (referencing when we still had the spell Flames of Zamorak before the god spells were streamlined to "Divine Storm"). Yep, she's a satire of PKers and combat monkeys, basically (we didn't have much bossing yet at the time). I will grant that the way the quests lay out, the player as adventurer doesn't seem to have any real loyalty to any deity. I personally don't think that's very fun, and Jagex did seem to hint that we would have some in-game benefits to aligning to a particular god-- TWW quest apparently is the beginning. I started before that, myself-- when quests had dialogue options that didn't necessarily affect your rewards xp or stats wise, I chose options consistent with how I saw the game. I realize that really doesn't matter to some. I started online gaming at the end of the pure text days, with Multiple User Dungeons (MUDs). My quick observation was when more graphics started coming along (Everquest and the like), players seemed to roleplay less. That's a discussion unto itself, though. To cut more to the point-- I'm not sure if you're arguing that the story doesn't matter by the way players play in real life, or if the way Jagex is depicting the players in their story-- that god affliation doesn't matter much. Perhaps you might clarify? @The Floating Pen "Just a Taste" Thank you, thank you, thank you-- it is such a welcome break from a stream of "Jagex sucks" and general suggestions that Yelps is hellspawned and Squeal of Fortune is an evil Mr. Moneybags "Bleed them kids dry of cash" demonic scheme. Tip.It still will have to do a lot to get back into Jagex's good graces, though... if that's possible. *sigh* I'm stooping so low, but I looked around, and I mean, really... RuneHQ has got the Platinum "Supa Special" badge now. I'd like to think this community can do as well IF it was really wanted. This is a good start, but I'd say dozens more articles like this would be needed. (*grumble grumble*yes the tired old story about Andrew threatening to sue*grumble grumble*) @Arceus and "No Small Problem": Okay, I'm tipping my hand a bit when I say stormveritas is a friend and I can still remember the backlash on some of his articles speaking out against minigames. But the points he had brought up makes this article's premise very germane: a lot of the minigames NEED to be fixed. They had problems even before the EoC. Do I understand correctly the numbered points are Hawks' edit work? Either way, wonderful formatting, and I think they line up a nice list of how some minigames have been subverted to beat the grind. I'm talking about non-combat Stealing Creation, "suicide" grinding Siege at Mobilising Armies, 50/50 games at Great Orb Project, "horn fillers" grinding waves 1-5 at Barbarian Assault, and so on. I don't think Jagex is yet doing enough to rebalance mechanics to better suit their players' style and regular habits... of course there's no dearth of arguments here about how their fixes seem like swatting flies with sledgehammers.

I think you might have misunderstood. The way I read it, as he was replying to Winlo, who said she was Chinese (and from what I gather, sounds like an honest, legitimate player), was that she should not be ashamed, individually speaking, for the actions of fellow citizens who have decided to goldfarm. Correct me if I'm wrong-- English isn't a first language for Dracae or Winlo? I suppose a few misunderstandings would be expected... but I thought they were both reasonably clear. I wish I spoke my secondary language that well. The other thing, if I understand it right, is we've got a difference of Eastern and Western paradigms; the Eastern viewpoint is more collective, and so feeling ashamed of the actions of a few WOULD be understandable. There's more concern how the actions of a few reflect on the reputation of the many. You don't do things that would reflect poorly on your family, your company, your peers, etc. The Western viewpoint is more individualistic-- people are more assumed to "do their own thing". Being in the United States, I can understand that one fairly well, with that "rugged individualism" outlook. I'm sure this is an oversimplification but that's how I understood the argument to be and I don't think either of them were saying anything in favor of goldfarming, RWT, or other forms that could be considered cheating by Jagex, and I think they more or less said so specifically.

wot Yup, I can verify. I don't know if they still remain, because I have an edited .hosts file that blocks stuff pretty aggressively at the IP level, including ads. But they most definitely have had goldselling ads in the past. To be fair, this is something every fansite runs into from time to time. I can't see these either, but I know Silverion has used Google's AdSense, which came with humorous results sometimes (because it's keyword based), but also sometimes wound up with bad ads. Then Runehead had some problems with a particular advertiser-- I can't remember all the details, but I had to agree with the site admin at the time-- always best to have a secure browser. But Zybez had it out so blatantly and up front that I really have trouble believing it was unintentional. There's a reason why Jagex has blacklisted them by way of the in-game filter.

I believe it is THE first (or at least the first which is still running). Which is why we be awesome. ;) Gugge, Lightning, and Rab worked on another game with Andrew before Runescape, so the connections go pretty far back. I wasn't there, so I'm going on what I've heard, and what Gugge confirmed for me. She's still around, so I'll let her speak for herself (if she so wishes) as far as her involvement. http://forum.tip.it/...y-back-machine/ and http://classic-web.a...scape/index.php for more info. Note that KS_Jeppe founded Runehead before moving on to bigger things IRL, and that I *can* speak on, having worked with her. The forums were known as "Scapeboard"... don't think I recall that, I mostly stuck website-side until about 2004, just a little bit before the RS2 beta. I'd been told Andrew was envious for a time since the first iteration of the RSOF was pretty bad, but I can't confirm that. But whoa there, cowboy, I wouldn't be too quick to call "awesome". I do hope things have changed, but there was a lot of backstabbing before you joined Staff. Newptor being dumped when he had his stroke comes to mind (no matter what Lightning said, he was aware). I have no problems at all pointing that out, and dragging out the old "yes, really, Andrew Gower *did* threaten a lawsuit against Tip.It, and for a Times article, no less" story. Such a dirty time, and Zybez/RSC hit below the belt and called a "we're not like that, we're better than Tip.It" openly on their site... of course, the in-game filter still stars out the name of that site for a variety of reasons, so they took their karma hit, I guess. Take that, w13. Yes, Jagex kindly promotes things here still-- I think there was a mention of the Daily-Weekly activities section, specifically. But other sites have got that Platinum Award now, not Tip.It. It's been a long time since this fansite has been in such close contact with Jagex, and from what I could see, things deteriorated before Andrew and Paul left the Jagex BoD. They're gone, I doubt either visits here anymore the way they once did, and I sincerely doubt that articles that continue to complain about Jagex encourages any Jagex employee to visit much more than is seen to be needed. Yep, it's way harsh, but I've seen a lot of inflated egos around here for a long time. I know most disgruntled folks just eventually go away with not much fanfare (even RaenonD faded away and seemed moderately chillax when I had the fortune... or misfortune to talk to him), but... binyam, the guy who created the Times, was a friend, and I still see enough worth in the section to keep coming back and say a few things-- including where Tip.It has REALLY been. Keep it in mind... or don't.

@2013: I think you could have omitted the first paragraph, and your argument would have been a long stronger, Ts_Stormrage. I am not the only one who thinks you have a precedent here of articles with a negative tone. That said, I generally agree WITH that argument, even if I don't agree with all your conclusions. I'll get to that in a sec because the other articles speak to those points and I'll address them then. @The “Good” Old Days?: I appreciate the comparisons of the August 2007 snapshot to the current game, if only to provide readers with an opportunity to slip off the perspective of nostalgia for a second. But I don't consider unidentified herbs a positive, though; I'm still remembering swampjedi explaining his elaborate bank setup to avoid scams on unids. It's an old concept, back to RS1/Classic, if I remember, but I think in the long term grimy/clean has been more practical. Oh, and I didn't see the advantage before the GE... I never participated in bank sales and I detested standing around Varrock Square (as a f2p player, but I went members shortly after the RS2 beta), or Falador East Bank. I smell autotyper scripts resurfacing. @Short Term Gain, Long Term Pain!: It's been a pleasure reading your articles lately, Dracae, and the numbered points make it much easier to read and understand. Great formatting. General thoughts: Well, I'm hanging with an old clan I used to belong to on Friends Chat... so I don't entirely agree with the sentiment of the lack of modern clan chats, at least, not yet. Quite a few of those members are spending a lot of time on 2007 servers and I'm getting enough nostalgia from just that, and they are actively using an fc that didn't see much activity otherwise. I'm done with clans (officially belonging to them), generally speaking, and so my other consistent use for Friend Chats is to visit communities that have open participation (i.e. membership not required) for various minigames and bosses (I don't boss much but enjoy Demon Flash mobs). I participate and have no real ambition to get ranked. Or, y'know, just to talk as I was saying. It gives me just enough of the old vibe of the community (as of now), without stepping back to the snapshot. In a word: I rather like the current arrangement for fairly individual and personal reasons. About nostalgia-- when I started Runescape in 2003, I was at a very low point in my life, and I am not ashamed to say so (at least not anymore). I had crashed out of undergrad studies and had just started a family (a little girl who is now crazy about this game and J-pop), and was fighting the good fight from welfare-to-work all the way down to legitimate, full disability benefits. It was ugly and horrible and I don't think I need to justify a little escapism a whole ton of people (especially my age) have done. (So... you're dead wrong, Silverion, if you can even be bothered to read. Eat those words. Eat 'em.) I did the Classic lookback, remembered it took forever to get anywhere, and saw a stream of bots from Lumbridge. So... I wasn't going to look at the members' content I missed. Maybe someday, when I am really bored and face the unlikely prospect of nothing to do. I almost missed the RS2 version of Tutorial Island, had it not been for a Halloween TIP.IT event. That's right, folks, this community gave me a ticket to look at what I'd missed, so I'm not missing it now! An RS2 look of the F2P quests (save second half of Dragon Slayer) is all I'm missing, and I'm not interested to go look. There is no childhood wonder to go back to, only ashes from which I am managing to rise above. Yeah, I still play, but my second child, a son, also has special needs (high-functioning autism), and my daughter is struggling in school. I'm doing everything for my wife and kids that I can do... so I don't want anyone to think for a moment that I neglect them even if they are enthralled sometimes with what I'm doing in this game. Yeah... on top of continuing back problems. Last hint ya get folks, if you did the math, though, respect my privacy and don't go blabbing what my other identity is. I am merely a metaphorical ghost that right now is reminding you of what it really used to be like... in Runescape, and on these forums. That's all. Yes, I do want Jagex to fix problems with the current live game. Yes, I want them to bring skilling more up to the bar that EoC set... if it's mostly with Ports and Ports-like content... so be it.

Would you mind giving some examples? I'm not calling you a liar, but I find your statement to be quite overstated. If anything, it should say 'EoC destroyed whatever skilling market that still existed'. Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed. I am pleased that my bold highlighting stood out amidst my rambling, long-winded style. It's not easy for me to be succinct and hold everyone's attention here. But I think that you've glossed over my context. You wish to argue semantics? Then I thank you for your permission to be more precise (surely more will read now the author says it's okay?), and to expound upon what I mean. Yes, you are correct that skilling has been on a long, slow decline, before bossing gained the spotlight. I suspect bossing stole attention away from PKing, at least in the clan I was once a part of. You ask, then, for an example that has put more nails in the coffin, so to speak. I think of the update that based food's LP healing on Constitution. I found I couldn't sell sharks with a decent turnaround (yes, I'm impatient, I'll sell low and buy high) and I therefore decided to save them for Spiritualise Food to buff my familiars. Effectively, it means only the highest foods sell well, and I suspect that's rocktails, and more so rocktail soup. Then again... food seemed to be not as important, not at least until Rejuvenate was nerfed. There wasn't as much demand for food, but Jagex seems to want to correct that now. Still, a bit of a 1-2 punch, savvy? Potions seem to be less important than abilities; so Herblore has taken a hit again, I think. Can't seem to sell much more than prayer pots. Rather odd that Saradomin brews (more so in flasks) don't seem to sell, as they don't diminish Adrenaline like food does. Oh and of course they removed poison from weapons. While that means that the series of weapon poison potions have more use, poison is a bit insequential, now. Until Jagex adjusts it, there's not much demand for them-- or for the various antipoison potions, either. I suspect many players tank out poison much of the time, now. Then... disease was removed. I haven't read Jagex's rationale directly, but I was told that they figured it to be pointless. Is that them acknowledging that boosts are less useful now? I can't tell, until I know the code specifics of how the combat formula works post-EoC. Shall I go on? Those seem to be the ones that come immediately to mind. Really now, Tip.It's had a small minority of skillers that believes they've gotten the shaft, and have said so, here, so surely, this is of interest. Runescape has been the red-headed step-child of the MMO world... or so it would seem with the old "Baby's first MMO" and "Runescape graphics suck" comments I saw littered all over the Internet. Before Miniclip, there was Real Networks and Real Arcade. Runescape was cultivated by free online casual gaming. I was there. (The RealArcade ads for Runescape were pretty awesome.) For those of you that at least remember the Miniclip years (and all the whining), Runescape's main competitors seemed to be Maplestory, Habbo Hotel, and a few others I'm forgetting. They aren't on that level of competition anymore-- I seem to remember Ash saying so. Yes, the comparisons to World of Warcraft came later. But it was a little while until I figured Jagex was trying to play with the "big boys", and I think was largely when Andrew, Paul, and Constance Tedder cashed out and Andrew started his R & D company. Jagex is now trying to compete mainstream-- they weren't on that level before. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Armor used to look very much the same, save for color. There were a lot of reworks, I think mostly with the look of helmets (what used to be called "full" and "medium")-- with each metal type, the helmet looks VERY different. Perhaps I don't see it because I remember a lot of things being reworked for looks many times. Ah. I see. I admit I haven't been around much-- I've been on Linux for the past handful of years. Thanks for the clarification.

regarding "2007": This is yet another reason why I make comparisons to arguments for RS1 (Classic) that were made shortly before and after the RS2 beta. At the risk of repeating myself, that's what the arguments were about: the supposed superiority of PKing in Classic. I'm not buying it. Besides, just one Times set ago, Dracae said this in "Don't Split the Community": So, which is it? Can you remember "catching" in Classic? Shall we rehash the pros and cons of multi-way combat entering the game, particularly the Wilderness? And then, the ability to switch from Single-Way to Multi and back again with EoC? I have yet to be convinced. Yes, I understand some haven't been playing that long-- it's okay. Still, understand I see so many old similarities... At best, EoC destroyed a lot of the market for skillers and that catches my attention more. The "Combat" in the name is apt enough. But while I would think the 2007 market might be more level, I am loathe to go back to the old interfaces. And here is where I say while I am glad to have left the click-fail-click-fail repetition of Classic (Fishing and Mining mostly), I don't recall 2007 being too much better. Why players want repetitive stress injuries (RSI) is beyond me... regarding "No More Revolving Door of the Afterlife": I don't think I was around for that one. But the idea *does* smell of Diablo 2. Finally, there is a comparison of Blizzard's *other* game That Is Not Warcraft 1-3 or World Of. But see, that's just the point! *snap snap* Jagex has been borrowing ideas for a long time, and that's including the game. The hitpoints bar IS influenced by Blizzard's Diablo 1 & 2 games-- no question, and it's been around since Classic, so... since 2001. I get what you're driving at, but I think it needs to be understood Runescape was NEVER 100% original ideas. And that rather comes with the territory of gaming, all the way back to the midways and arcades. Even before videogaming-- to pinball. Pen, paper, and dice stuff. Ideas get reused all the time... is your point that Jagex should be much more sly about it? Anyways, I admit I never really played D2 Multiplayer, but, Alg, I'm not so sure how your idea works for RS in particular. If Runescape was purely combat focused-- like the Diablo games-- maybe I could see it. Don't know how much it exists outside of Single Player modes; I am rather unaware of how many MMOs actually do it. Wish my experience stretched back to the original iteration of Runescape, where PK could be done anywhere, and I was told that even then it was limited: PKer or nonPKer. It'd be more relevant, I think. Someone help me out here. All I can remember at best was when PK-anywhere worlds from RS1/Classic were brought into the main game. 75k player killing, brawler gloves, and all that. Seemed to collapse harder than Bounty Hunter did. Seriously though, an idea like that, I think, would have more traction on those sort of worlds... and at best, I think "hardcore" would be limited to the wilderness. Still, though, I need an honest example of where this is done for a game that compares to Runescape, more especially on the non-combat side. And which would it be implemented on? Post-EoC Runescape, or 2007 Runescape? If they've kept the PK worlds, I'd be interested to hear a Jagex dev say which was easier. Yes, my tired old line again-- "think like a developer".