McLaren got pwned.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Just a point, but isn't this the Drivers Championship? Why shouldAlonso care more about McLaren than he does himself or Hamilton, especially when that team has just sacked him when he threatened to dub them into the police?

 

Because it's the team that gets him out there, does his strategy and makes his success possible, with input from the driver, of course. But I think it's pretty obvious that a team with a functioning relationship would succeed more often than not than a team without.

 

No, I'm sorry. Hamilton is talking about his team mate as though he is Alonso's superior. I find that attitude, especially considering Hamilton is in his first year in F1 racing, to be frankly inappropriate. If he has feelings about the way Alonso is behaving, then he raises that with his team, not the international press.

 

 

 

Second to that, from the way I look at things McLaren have treated Alonso second-rate to Hamilton. Alonso at the end of the day isn't there to win a Championship for McLaren, he's there to try and be the best F1 driver in the world. And then Hamilton complains when he tries to do exactly that by closing him off in the opening lap? What makes Hamilton think he has a right to go past Alonso anyway?

 

 

 

I just find something about Hamilton that just makes me wanna cringe. His attitude has smelled of something in the past few weeks.

 

 

 

Because the drivers were granted immunity from punishment in return for evidence against the team. I agree with you though, they should definitely have been docked driver points, although maybe not ADDED to the punishment. I think if I had been giving out the penalty, McLaren would have been DOCKED points in both the driver's and constructor's championship in 2007, but excluded from niether. of course the $100m fine is just, if not too low.

 

I'm happy McLaren got fined this much. IMO, they got off lightly, so I agree with ya. But just because you give evidence doesn't make you exempt from the crime itself. If I was involved in a theft, and I gave evidence against the people I did that theft with, it doesn't mean I didn't do the theft in the first place. It's very noble the drivers gave evidence, but at the end of the day, they still gained an unfair advantage, and should be docked points to reflect this.

[Bubsa]

Just a point, but isn't this the Drivers Championship? Why shouldAlonso care more about McLaren than he does himself or Hamilton, especially when that team has just sacked him when he threatened to dub them into the police?

 

Because it's the team that gets him out there, does his strategy and makes his success possible, with input from the driver, of course. But I think it's pretty obvious that a team with a functioning relationship would succeed more often than not than a team without.

 

No, I'm sorry. Hamilton is talking about his team mate as though he is Alonso's superior. I find that attitude, especially considering Hamilton is in his first year in F1 racing, to be frankly inappropriate. If he has feelings about the way Alonso is behaving, then he raises that with his team, not the international press.

 

 

 

Second to that, from the way I look at things McLaren have treated Alonso second-rate to Hamilton. Alonso at the end of the day isn't there to win a Championship for McLaren, he's there to try and be the best F1 driver in the world. And then Hamilton complains when he tries to do exactly that by closing him off in the opening lap? What makes Hamilton think he has a right to go past Alonso anyway?

 

 

 

I just find something about Hamilton that just makes me wanna cringe. His attitude has smelled of something in the past few weeks.

 

 

 

That's completely a matter of opinion, in regards to Hamilton's attitude. I'd also have to add that the general consensus thinks the opposite of it. This may be due to media bias, but while Hamilton has held racing etiquette and Alonso did anything but during his racing at Spa this weekend, I'd say that's a pretty accurate testimony.

 

 

 

In McLaren's treatment of Alonso as 'second-rate' - that's near on impossible. If you don't know how a racing team works, particularly one without a clear lead driver (like Schumi was with Ferrari), the garage is basically split into 2. Alonso will have people working for him and Hamilton his own troops. The only people the 2 sides will both digress to his Ron Dennis and the Chief Engineer - who will only inform the other side should they deem it necessary. Hence, why Hamilton had no involvement in obtaining the data from the engineer. I'd say if Alonso and De La Rosa are privvy to such valuable information from the 2nd most important man in the team, and Hamilton is not, I wouldn't say Alonso is suffering 'second-rate' treatment. Not to mention the gastronomical difference in wages - appropiate though given their levels of success and experience in the sport.

 

 

 

McLaren have never been a team to have a first or second driver and this is obvious through history. Look at Hakkinenn/Coulthard, Raikkonen/Montoya and, of course, Senna/Prost. Alonso, when signing for McLaren most have known this and agreed to it, especially considering at the time of signing, he wouldn't know his driving partner (which could have well been JPM had it not been for his defection). Quote: "The Spaniard, 26, is perceived to have tried to blackmail team boss Ron Dennis at the Hungarian Grand Prix last month. In the course of a heated row with Dennis over, among other things, his desire to have number one status over Hamilton, Alonso threatened to hand over e-mails incriminating his own team to Formula One's governing body, the FIA."

 

 

 

Now, what was that exactly about second-rate behaviour?

 

 

 

And then Hamilton complains when he tries to do exactly that by closing him off in the opening lap?

 

 

 

Again, this is a miscued fact. Hamilton wasn't complaining about Alonso's right to defend - he couldn't after doing the same thing in Hungary, which incidentally put the relationship in the melting pot. Rather, Hamilton was complaining about the manner of which Alonso defended, which was reckless, petulant and most importantly dangerous. One of the most important rules of racing is that the leading car always gives a car's length and/or width to the other driver to ensure their safety. It's blatantly apparent that Alonso did not, running Hamilton off the track. Any driver would complain about this manouvre, and it now seems Alonso is resorting to the tactics that tarnished Schumacher's career.

 

Incidentally, Hamilton respected that rule in the next corner, the legendary Eau Rouge: "At Eau Rouge it's impossible to take two Formula One cars through there without taking each other out, so I just lifted," said Hamilton. "Eau Rouge is always going to be a tricky one. He had the momentum on me and was a bit quicker."

 

 

 

I wouldn't say anyone is whiter than white in this team's season, but consdering his teammate is pulling out all the stops to try and take the title, on the track, in the mind and through the courts, I'd say Hamilton is remaining remarkably cool and amicable for a driver so young.

[ktmcf121]

I'm happy McLaren got fined this much. IMO, they got off lightly, so I agree with ya. But just because you give evidence doesn't make you exempt from the crime itself. If I was involved in a theft, and I gave evidence against the people I did that theft with, it doesn't mean I didn't do the theft in the first place. It's very noble the drivers gave evidence, but at the end of the day, they still gained an unfair advantage, and should be docked points to reflect this.

 

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's politics. Stupid, yes, but it happens all the time, not just in racing and sports, but in real life also. If you were going to court and they didn't have an especially strong case against you and your partners in crime, you would most likely get a break in your punishment in return for selling out the others. #-o