From what I've seen trying to sell my nats,

 

 

 

It's harder to get them at the 300+ price

 

 

 

I'm getting 10+ offers @ 270ish each

ok, I see you points.

 

 

 

Well thankyou

 

 

 

after this and a thread on (other popular runescape website)I have a new thoery.

 

 

 

:|

 

 

 

consider this hypothetical situation, if everyone simotaniously forgot all the prices is rs, and the market had to be reformed. In this situation the nat price would be based on the shop price...so around 350-370ea?

 

 

 

Incorrect, once again that's not how the market works, it's determined by supply and demand, not shop prices. Example with new armor when it is introduced in the game, the price isn't anything remotely close to shop price. On the first day, the price is ridiculously high because there are so few in the game and so many people want them. (you'll notice how the price rarely even gets close to the shop prices most of the time anyways)

 

 

 

What i'm saying by that is that the price is kept down by the fact that poeple belive the price is what it is, and want to stick to the old way of doing things...not because the price logicaly makes sense.

 

 

 

That's a logical theory in some ways but that's simply not how economics work. Like I said before, price is determined by supply and demand, not by some sort of artificial price. Sure, the suppliers may start off at 374 each, but then someone might realize they sell much more at 350 each, and then eventually the market will re-adjust the price to find the equilibrium (This is known as Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" concept).

 

 

 

In otherwards there is no logical reason why the price wont go up, simply that poeple are used to it being at 300ea.

 

 

 

Or perhaps because people are willing to sell it at 300 each. Even if the price was to increase, we know that the people selling the nats for 300 each are the suppliers who are willing to sell their nats for anything above 300 each. Yes, of course they would love to sell for 350 each, however, they are willing to go lower than what other people are selling (for time issues and such) until they reach 300 each. So no, the price is not 300 each because people are use to it, but the price is 300 each because that's what is agreed upon by both suppliers and consumers and thus is considered the equilibrium price.

 

 

Ps. sorry if I'm misusing some economic terms and theories, I'm just going on what ive learned in rs and on these forums.

 

 

 

Alright, then I can't blame you for misinterpreting economic theory and I'll admit I might have been a lil harsh. Basically your ideas have logic in their own sense however they just don't work; runescape, being a free market, works on the basis of supply and demand.

 

 

 

Also, considering how many crazy people make crack economic theories (like "prices of X random good are decreasing by a very small amount, this is a huge inflation problem!!! We must stop alchemy because it's ruining everything!!!!"!) I would say be careful what you listen to. I've seen idiocy in forms that I never though even existed thanks to this game.

 

 

 

I still believe that the price will eventually go up...but after all this ive decided it will take much longer time, around a year. If it hasn't changed by then and this thread still exists...I stand corrected

 

 

 

If the price ever does change in about a year, it could be due to anything (like an update or a macroer invasion). Trust me, if the shop update really had an effect on the market it would have been immediate.

OK

 

 

 

you've managed to convince me that prices arnt changing any time soon, good job =D> .

 

 

 

but...

 

 

 

I have to completly dissagree that the prices would be the same if everyone forgot all the prices in rs.

 

The supply and demand would not change at all if all the prices were forgotten, thats a fact. Now with nats what determines theer price, mainly that is? The price the supplies for yew long alchers. They need to buy the nats the bs and the yew logs and still come close to breaking even.

 

 

 

If all the prices were forgotten, the people who were currently buying and selling the items for alching would have to base thier prices on something, with no other peoples prices to go on, the would look at the shop price and..."wtf thats way to low"(I think yews are about 90gp shop price ).

 

They would go to what? judging by supply and demand, since there is a huge supply, easly enough to meet the demand, so the price should be low. Lets say 300ea. Now bs...with all the bots there is and even larger supply and an even lowwer shop sell price, the price would probably go to about what it is right now, arround 200ea. Now..the nats...runes armour and arrows are the few things that have a fairly high shop price, considering the supply of $$ in the game. People would see the very high shop price at a shop where you can actualy buy them, not just sell. When people alch yew longs they usualy buy the materials for around 900gp..that leaves 400gp after the nats...people would only pay the 375ea shop price max though...so the logs( being harder to get than flax/bs )would be more like 325. With the crafters brought into the equasion they would probably sell at about 10gp less than the shop at the most(AT FIRST).

 

 

 

Materials being bs 200ea yews 300ea and nats being 360-370ea at first the poeple who only want xp would drive the prices up so there would be no proffit margin. And yews being once again being harder to ger would gain value. Ending Prices(about 2months after prices are forgotten):

 

 

 

BS200ea yews350ea nats350ea

 

 

 

You keep going on about supply and demand setting prices so, you shouldnt have a problem with bs and yew logs being lower than nats.

 

Autos supply so much supply to the yew log and bs markets.

 

Yet there a precious few Autos making nats(I know there are lots of runners but there is still less supply).

 

There is even or less supply of bs and yew logs than nats thus nats shouldnt be lower than yews or bs.

 

 

 

srry if I repeated myself a bit in that last paragraph #-o

 

 

 

P.S. I dont think rs could Qualify as a market economy, to be one wouldnt the shops have to be owned by PLAYERS and have PLAYER set prices, rather than preset ones? I think runescape would be more of a Mixed economy.

Oh and btw solidus, thnx for the continuing responses

 

 

 

Its fun debating this, gives me a chance to test my debating skill against someone smarter than my incompetant freinds on rs.

 

A mere short term effect is nothing. That didn't change iron prices and besides, forming cartels is considered price manipulation and it is against the rules in this game.

 

 

 

 

Which rules of the game?

you don't take into account the nature rune farmers/autoers. Theres alot of them now as well as lots of people offering double nature services and people running solo, in other words, theres ALOT of nature runes coming into the game. The main reason is because its the most profitable skill in the whole game at a constant rate. The only way for the price to go up would be if these people stopped making runes and there was a sudden dip in the supply, then the buyings (the alchers and such) would have to pay more asw we would charge more, but there will only be more and more runecrafters, not less, simply because of how valuable the skill is.

 

 

 

Nature prices have been around 300 for a very very long time, and I don't see them changing anytime soon unless it goes down.

 

If all the prices were forgotten, the people who were currently buying and selling the items for alching would have to base thier prices on something, with no other peoples prices to go on, the would look at the shop price and..."wtf thats way to low"(I think yews are about 90gp shop price ).

 

They would go to what? judging by supply and demand, since there is a huge supply, easly enough to meet the demand, so the price should be low. Lets say 300ea. Now bs...with all the bots there is and even larger supply and an even lowwer shop sell price, the price would probably go to about what it is right now, arround 200ea.

There are plenty of nat bots, just not as many as yew bots. You can't expect people to just suddenly forget all the prices and go by shop price :roll:

Honestly, the only way i see nature prices changing would be for yew and bowstring prices to change. Nature prices rely heavily (almost entirely) on alching, and one of the most alched things is obviously yew long bows.

To be honest, as long as I make a profit from it, I don't care what they are selling at.

First off, you're welcome, goldhawk :

 

 

 

 

I have to completly dissagree that the prices would be the same if everyone forgot all the prices in rs.

 

The supply and demand would not change at all if all the prices were forgotten, thats a fact. Now with nats what determines theer price, mainly that is? The price the supplies for yew long alchers. They need to buy the nats the bs and the yew logs and still come close to breaking even.

 

 

 

If all the prices were forgotten, the people who were currently buying and selling the items for alching would have to base thier prices on something, with no other peoples prices to go on, the would look at the shop price and..."wtf thats way to low"(I think yews are about 90gp shop price ).

 

They would go to what? judging by supply and demand, since there is a huge supply, easly enough to meet the demand, so the price should be low. Lets say 300ea. Now bs...with all the bots there is and even larger supply and an even lowwer shop sell price, the price would probably go to about what it is right now, arround 200ea. Now..the nats...runes armour and arrows are the few things that have a fairly high shop price, considering the supply of $$ in the game. People would see the very high shop price at a shop where you can actualy buy them, not just sell. When people alch yew longs they usualy buy the materials for around 900gp..that leaves 400gp after the nats...people would only pay the 375ea shop price max though...so the logs( being harder to get than flax/bs )would be more like 325. With the crafters brought into the equasion they would probably sell at about 10gp less than the shop at the most(AT FIRST).

 

 

 

Now, I understand the thinking. You don't believe that people would be able to "find" the price of the nats. However, and this is one of the fascinating things about economics, what will happen is exactly that! At first the price may be significantly off, but little by little the price will go up or down until it has reached a point where all the nats sold are bought. This is known as the point of equilibrium. This means that if nobody knew what prices of nats were, they COULD start selling nats at 374 each but then the "invisible hand" will kick in.

 

 

 

The "invisible hand", is an economic concept. It refers to the forces (of supply and demand) that re-ajust price to meet at a point where the quantity sold is bought by consumers, thus the point of equilibrium. Therefore, if nats start off at 374, forces of supply and demand (or "the invisible hand") will re-ajust the price to 300 each because we know that the equilibrium price of nature runes is 300 each.

 

 

 

To see this effect in motion, it's a bit hard to visualize everyone suddenly "forgetting" the price so I've got an alternative that leads to the same effects: The introduction of a new item. When a new item is introduced into the game, the price is out of control. Not only is it typically very high but also the price varies considerably (Note that the price is way over the price of general store, thus the general store is irrelevant in this case). The only guidance that seller have is "how high are buyers willing to go for this item?". You'll notice that, over time, the price of these items will begin to stabilize. This is exactly what I am referring to as the "invisible hand" because the price is re-adjusted until it becomes the equilibrium price.

 

 

 

This is why, without any early knowledge, people will find the equilibrium price. Fascinating isn't it? Economics is able to predict people's behavior.

 

 

 

P.S. I dont think rs could Qualify as a market economy, to be one wouldnt the shops have to be owned by PLAYERS and have PLAYER set prices, rather than preset ones? I think runescape would be more of a Mixed economy.

 

 

 

ok, now you are correct in saying that real life doesn't quite work that way, however you need to understand what purpose the shops serve in runescape. They serve what would be considered a "price control". In real life, a price control is set by the government who ends up buying up the excess supply (at a huge cost to society). Now, runescape doesn't function that way so the reasons and policies are totally different, however the effect on the particular market for a good is similar. It acts as a price "ceiling" or maximum price that people can charge (well, people can charge higher but it's pretty pointless). So in that reguard, it doesn't matter in what form the shops are, they act as a maximum price and runescape remains a market economy (which has, none-the-less, a very special "government" :D )

 

 

 

Which rules of the game?

 

 

 

Price manipulation is against the rules (for rares at least).

 

 

 

Price manipulation is against the rules (for rares at least).

 

 

 

I.e., you don't know which rules and can't provide a source, but you heard from some guy that it's against "the rules". That's simply not good enough, please stop spreading misinformation.

 

 

 

edit: i'll provide a hint for you to speed this discussion up...price manipulation by means of forum posts that are not of the form of valid and legitimate 'buy (or sell) item x for price y' threads is against the RSOF rules, however since in this thread you referenced price manipulation without mentioning the RSOF, this fact is irrelevant. It is important to note that with the definition of "price manipulation" given by the RSOF rules, one can manipulate the price of items quite easily without committing the specific violation "price manipulation"--just by making only actual trade threads. It's not rocket science.

 

A mere short term effect is nothing. That didn't change iron prices and besides, forming cartels is considered price manipulation and it is against the rules in this game.

 

 

 

 

Which rules of the game?

 

 

 

It's mentioned in the code of conduct for the RSOF. It's not specifically discussed in the game rules.

 

A mere short term effect is nothing. That didn't change iron prices and besides, forming cartels is considered price manipulation and it is against the rules in this game.

 

 

 

 

Which rules of the game?

 

 

 

It's mentioned in the code of conduct for the RSOF. It's not specifically discussed in the game rules.

 

 

 

If you actually read said code of conduct, you would see that a cartel could easily manipulate the price of items, using the RSOF, without violating the code of conduct, an occurrence which happens every single day.

 

 

 

The problem here is an equivocation, everyone interprets the word manipulation to be synonymous with the word change, but the actual RSOF CoC carefully defines manipulation to be "change via this list of banned practices", and then it says exactly which ways you are allowed to change the price. The problem is that the legal ways to change the price via the RSOF fall more naturally into the word manipulation than into the word change, so everyone just uses that word in their own discussions. All of this confusion is caused by this overloading of meanings onto the term manipulation--however when someone challenges you to source the rule, at that point perhaps you should actually read the rules which clearly state how they redefine the terms, eh?

Well I dont think theres much more to be said here.

 

 

 

In the BTS released today is sais that the "grand exchange" will be soon released. There is a lot of conterversy over what it will do to prices and merchanting. As soon as it comes out i'll give u a call(Pm) so you can clear things up on that.

 

 

 

Yay for my first thread to actualy get any replys( besides ones from flamers ).