Zemouregal and the Staff of Armadly + Mahjaratt Speculation

[Death]

This is true however in the elf series the empty lord clearly refers to Zamorak.

 

 

 

Eg all modern non mahjaratt references = Zamorak

 

I don't recal the elves ever directly linking the Name of the Empty Lord to Zamorak

[Dharockslayer]

Zaros is the empty lord according to all the deceased humans.

 

 

 

Anyway, why would they need zamorak again? All the Mahjarrat are clearly trying to resurrect the fallen god.

[Sy_Accursed]

This is true however in the elf series the empty lord clearly refers to Zamorak.

 

 

 

Eg all modern non mahjaratt references = Zamorak

 

I don't recal the elves ever directly linking the Name of the Empty Lord to Zamorak

 

 

 

 

 

Talking to certain mourners and elves at certain points in quests gets you dialogue tht refers directly to Zamorak as thier lord.

 

 

 

I also believe in the comment about their lord sweeping through to camelot with little opposition they mentioned him as being "red" and red is zamorak.

 

 

 

All these references clearly imply the empty lord in thier letter is Zamorak and it is logical Zamorak be knwon as the empty lord since he got his pwoer from Zaros the original empty lord

[Death]

This is true however in the elf series the empty lord clearly refers to Zamorak.

 

 

 

Eg all modern non mahjaratt references = Zamorak

 

I don't recal the elves ever directly linking the Name of the Empty Lord to Zamorak

 

 

 

 

 

Talking to certain mourners and elves at certain points in quests gets you dialogue tht refers directly to Zamorak as thier lord.

 

 

 

I also believe in the comment about their lord sweeping through to camelot with little opposition they mentioned him as being "red" and red is zamorak.

 

 

 

All these references clearly imply the empty lord in thier letter is Zamorak and it is logical Zamorak be knwon as the empty lord since he got his pwoer from Zaros the original empty lord

 

 

 

Zamorak killed Zaros, it is unknown how he became a god

[darkjab]

This is true however in the elf series the empty lord clearly refers to Zamorak.

 

 

 

Eg all modern non mahjaratt references = Zamorak

 

I don't recal the elves ever directly linking the Name of the Empty Lord to Zamorak

 

 

 

 

 

Talking to certain mourners and elves at certain points in quests gets you dialogue tht refers directly to Zamorak as thier lord.

 

 

 

I also believe in the comment about their lord sweeping through to camelot with little opposition they mentioned him as being "red" and red is zamorak.

 

 

 

All these references clearly imply the empty lord in thier letter is Zamorak and it is logical Zamorak be knwon as the empty lord since he got his pwoer from Zaros the original empty lord

 

 

 

Zamorak is the Dark Lord, not the empty Lord:

 

 

 

[Sy_Accursed]

This is true however in the elf series the empty lord clearly refers to Zamorak.

 

 

 

Eg all modern non mahjaratt references = Zamorak

 

I don't recal the elves ever directly linking the Name of the Empty Lord to Zamorak

 

 

 

 

 

Talking to certain mourners and elves at certain points in quests gets you dialogue tht refers directly to Zamorak as thier lord.

 

 

 

I also believe in the comment about their lord sweeping through to camelot with little opposition they mentioned him as being "red" and red is zamorak.

 

 

 

All these references clearly imply the empty lord in thier letter is Zamorak and it is logical Zamorak be knwon as the empty lord since he got his pwoer from Zaros the original empty lord

 

 

 

Zamorak killed Zaros, it is unknown how he became a god

 

 

 

It is unknown however it is assumed as he killed Zaros was banished but then returned with godly powers. The most logical and likely theory is in killing Zaros some of Zaro's power transferred via the staff of armaydal into Zamorak. This theory is further backed up by Lucien, one of the loyal to Zaros mahjaratt, wanting the staff of armaydal which show it has significance to the Zaros cause thus suggest some of Zaros power or spirit resides in the staff which killed him, which would mean equaly ZXamorak (attached to the other end of staff at the killing) would have recieved some of the power.

 

 

 

And in responce to darkjab it seems Jagex have noticed thier clash of names and changed tht cause it used to say empty lord lol

[Death]

This is true however in the elf series the empty lord clearly refers to Zamorak.

 

 

 

Eg all modern non mahjaratt references = Zamorak

 

I don't recal the elves ever directly linking the Name of the Empty Lord to Zamorak

 

 

 

 

 

Talking to certain mourners and elves at certain points in quests gets you dialogue tht refers directly to Zamorak as thier lord.

 

 

 

I also believe in the comment about their lord sweeping through to camelot with little opposition they mentioned him as being "red" and red is zamorak.

 

 

 

All these references clearly imply the empty lord in thier letter is Zamorak and it is logical Zamorak be knwon as the empty lord since he got his pwoer from Zaros the original empty lord

 

 

 

Zamorak killed Zaros, it is unknown how he became a god

 

 

 

It is unknown however it is assumed as he killed Zaros was banished but then returned with godly powers. The most logical and likely theory is in killing Zaros some of Zaro's power transferred via the staff of armaydal into Zamorak. This theory is further backed up by Lucien, one of the loyal to Zaros mahjaratt, wanting the staff of armaydal which show it has significance to the Zaros cause thus suggest some of Zaros power or spirit resides in the staff which killed him, which would mean equaly ZXamorak (attached to the other end of staff at the killing) would have recieved some of the power.

 

 

 

And in responce to darkjab it seems Jagex have noticed thier clash of names and changed tht cause it used to say empty lord lol

 

 

 

Yes, I agree with that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Zaros' title would have carried over.

 

 

 

By the way, thanks to Dark Jab for clearing thing's up :thumbsup:

[Sy_Accursed]

Silly Jagex obviously never meant both zmaorak and zaros to be called the empty lord lol.

 

 

 

Its been many years since I did regicide and I've not seen any recent screenies of that letter so god knows when they changed it but clearly they have fixed it so Zaros is empty lord zamorak is dark lord

 

 

 

Which makes the disagreement factor of this debate kinda null and void as it shows my use of the empty lord as zamorak was an old jagex error tht has now been altered and tht was all we disagreed on

[darkjab]

I think Jagex have always meant Zaros to be the Empty Lord, I think it's a fitting title for a God who has had his power taken from him and given to another, sort of gives the analogy of being emptied. That's how I've always seen it :lol:

 

 

 

Edit - After completing that little mini-quest that is. I couldn't possibly of known that beforehand... ah I guess I should go back to my vodka, that makes more sense :lol:

[Eonrogue]

Zaros=Empty Lord

 

Zamorack= Dark Lord

 

 

 

I sided with Lucien in the temple of Ikov so Lucien has the staff of Armdayl at least in my storyline. That is why Lucien is growing more powerful, for those of you that didn't side with Lucien I am curious as to how your story played out in DOV. Anyway, Zemo is going to kill Lucien and take the staff from him, that is how it is going to be in his possesion. I didn't help ressurect Hazeel (at least I don't think I did) so if I didn't do it then he isn't going North in my storyline unless someone else ressurected him for me.

 

 

 

(spelling errors I know I'm tired I don't care)

 

 

 

Thats my 2 cents worth

[legilgalad2]

It doesn't make much sense to me that the Majharrat would travel north to summon Zaros. Most of them betrayed him so would they really want to risk bringing zaros back only for him to kill them all for their betrayl?

[Obtaurian]

Lucien is one of the Mahjarrat who rebelled against Zaros. For whatever reason, the Mahjarrat are congregating up north. We don't know why yet, but the big 150th quest should tell us.

 

 

 

This is really exciting. Of all the stories and races in Runescape, the Mahjarrat are by far my favorite.

[Sy_Accursed]

It doesn't make much sense to me that the Majharrat would travel north to summon Zaros. Most of them betrayed him so would they really want to risk bringing zaros back only for him to kill them all for their betrayl?

 

 

 

because they restored him?

 

Because they are among the most powerful people left in runescape?

 

 

 

And tbh Zaros doesn't know who betrayed him he just knows Zamorak attacked him.

 

 

 

So whos to say how he'd react.

 

 

 

Plus as a good who takes joy in destruction and chaos whos to say his followers killing him wouldn't make him a bit happy?

[Obtaurian]

It doesn't make much sense to me that the Majharrat would travel north to summon Zaros. Most of them betrayed him so would they really want to risk bringing zaros back only for him to kill them all for their betrayl?

 

 

 

because they restored him?

 

Because they are among the most powerful people left in runescape?

 

 

 

And tbh Zaros doesn't know who betrayed him he just knows Zamorak attacked him.

 

 

 

So whos to say how he'd react.

 

 

 

Plus as a good who takes joy in destruction and chaos whos to say his followers killing him wouldn't make him a bit happy?

 

 

 

There's a certain point where speculation becomes nonsense. We have no idea whatsoever what Zaros does or does not know.

 

 

 

Also, you're confusing Zamorak, the God of chaos, with Zaros. We don't know what Zaros was the God of. We know Armadyl is the God of justice, but all we have from Zaros is that the Mahjarrat saw him as a suitable leader who upheld their values, and he's referred to as The Empty Lord.

[Sy_Accursed]

It doesn't make much sense to me that the Majharrat would travel north to summon Zaros. Most of them betrayed him so would they really want to risk bringing zaros back only for him to kill them all for their betrayl?

 

 

 

because they restored him?

 

Because they are among the most powerful people left in runescape?

 

 

 

And tbh Zaros doesn't know who betrayed him he just knows Zamorak attacked him.

 

 

 

So whos to say how he'd react.

 

 

 

Plus as a good who takes joy in destruction and chaos whos to say his followers killing him wouldn't make him a bit happy?

 

 

 

There's a certain point where speculation becomes nonsense. We have no idea whatsoever what Zaros does or does not know.

 

 

 

 

 

Well based upon the story of his defeat he only saw zammy attacking him.

 

 

 

Since other gods think he is dead he celary isn't connected to the world any more suggesting who wouldn't know whats happening.

 

 

 

Therefore there is a high chance he doens't know they all betrayed him.

 

 

 

But equally we can assume he may be happy about his "death" as evidence suggests all those who died and achieve resurrection become somewhat immortality through being restored or being undead. After all Zemergoul is undead and immortal, Hazeel is imortal thru resurection. Lucien revives whenever he is killed.

 

 

 

But you comment contradicts itself speculation in itself is based upon guessing what we don't know based upon what we do know. Therefore the fact we do not know what Zaros knows means it is perfect for speculation.

[Obtaurian]

 

Well based upon the story of his defeat he only saw zammy attacking him.

 

 

 

Since other gods think he is dead he celary isn't connected to the world any more suggesting who wouldn't know whats happening.

 

 

 

Therefore there is a high chance he doens't know they all betrayed him.

 

 

 

But equally we can assume he may be happy about his "death" as evidence suggests all those who died and achieve resurrection become somewhat immortality through being restored or being undead. After all Zemergoul is undead and immortal, Hazeel is imortal thru resurection. Lucien revives whenever he is killed.

 

 

 

But you comment contradicts itself speculation in itself is based upon guessing what we don't know based upon what we do know. Therefore the fact we do not know what Zaros knows means it is perfect for speculation.

 

 

 

Based on his story of defeat, the Mahjarrat who followed Zamorak kept Zaros' Mahjarrat at bay while Zamorak fought Zaros. There's a good chance that Zaros probably got a good look before he was accidentally defeated. There's nothing to suggest that he was somehow oblivious to the battle going on around him.

 

 

 

Gods are immortal by definition, which is why Zaros didn't simply die. We don't know what happened to him other than he faded from our world.

 

 

 

Also, if you want to talk about the opinions of other Gods, just read the old God letters. Zamorak is clearly frightened that Zaros may come back. Otherwise, no other God would have knowledge of where Zaros is or what he's doing, other than perhaps Guthix, or the Elder Gods.

[Sy_Accursed]

If Zaros was in the castle with Zamorak how would he have a definite knowledge of who was on what side outside the castle?

 

 

 

Equally within the story of Zaros defeat we learn SOME mahjaratt supported Zamorak but not all. The only mahjaratt we have met with an overt support for Zamorak was Enkhra

 

Anthankos displayed support for Zaros and called Enkhra a betrayer.

 

Azzandra displayed a strong desire to resurrect his lord Zaros as well

 

Zemergoul, Lucien and Hazeel displayed little obvious sign either way but since they headed north which is where Anthankos and Azzandra went and were after the object tht killed Zaros its a safe bet they fall on the Zarosian side.

 

 

 

Plus it is historic fact Zamorak and Saradomin followers alike killed and imprisoned the Zarosian followers. Since Hazeel, Lucien, Azzandra, Anthankos and Zemergoul were all imprisoned, dead or in hiding when we met them this further suggest they were Zarosian followers.

[Obtaurian]

If Zaros was in the castle with Zamorak how would he have a definite knowledge of who was on what side outside the castle?

 

 

 

Equally within the story of Zaros defeat we learn SOME mahjaratt supported Zamorak but not all. The only mahjaratt we have met with an overt support for Zamorak was Enkhra

 

Anthankos displayed support for Zaros and called Enkhra a betrayer.

 

Azzandra displayed a strong desire to resurrect his lord Zaros as well

 

Zemergoul, Lucien and Hazeel displayed little obvious sign either way but since they headed north which is where Anthankos and Azzandra went and were after the object tht killed Zaros its a safe bet they fall on the Zarosian side.

 

 

 

Plus it is historic fact Zamorak and Saradomin followers alike killed and imprisoned the Zarosian followers. Since Hazeel, Lucien, Azzandra, Anthankos and Zemergoul were all imprisoned, dead or in hiding when we met them this further suggest they were Zarosian followers.

 

 

 

That's the thing, we don't know WHERE the other battle was going on. Again, you're just assuming things.

 

 

 

I've already stated that only some Mahjarrat followed Zamorak. Lucien was certainly listed as a Zamorak follower, though now his allegiance is questionable.

 

 

 

Again, there is no evidence to support that Hazeel or Zemouregal are Zaros followers. I do recall reading that they in fact followed Zamorak, but I have no sources other than a faint memory, so don't quote me on that.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, the fact that a few of the Mahjarrat are after Armadyl's Staff doesn't say anything about their allegiances. Remember, Mahjarrat do not seek each other's company. I assume that Lucien and Zemouregal are after the staff for their own purposes.

 

 

 

See what I did there? I used the word ASSUME, which means I'm now speculating, rather than declaring my thoughts as fact.

[Sy_Accursed]

This entire thread is about speculating on the future of the zemergoul/mahjaratt stroy line.

 

 

 

I do not need to write assume every other word.

 

 

 

Also if you read back over my posts you'll not i highlight bit that we have been told from quests etc as fact or we know that. Then proceed to say what i think this suggest

[Obtaurian]

This entire thread is about speculating on the future of the zemergoul/mahjaratt stroy line.

 

 

 

I do not need to write assume every other word.

 

 

 

Also if you read back over my posts you'll not i highlight bit that we have been told from quests etc as fact or we know that. Then proceed to say what i think this suggest

 

 

 

My problem is that you keep declaring your opinions as fact. I'm not asking you to use the word assume before you start a sentence. I'm asking you to separate what we know from what you think.

[legilgalad2]

I always assumed that Zaros knew the identities of the chief conspirators. He cursed Viggora (the human in the ghostly robes quest) to become a ghost as he was supposed to be of one of Zamoraks closest supporters who fought Zaros' guards with the other Majharat and Lord Draken.

[Obtaurian]

I always assumed that Zaros knew the identities of the chief conspirators. He cursed Viggora (the human in the ghostly robes quest) to become a ghost as he was supposed to be of one of Zamoraks closest supporters who fought Zaros' guards with the other Majharat and Lord Draken.

 

 

 

This is a very good point.

[Den]

(This was the closest related thread to the quest i could find. :mrgreen: )

 

 

 

My Trailer, kinda late but I got home the day after the update. :ohnoes:

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-4o_QN-oY

 

 

 

[Maulmachine]

Silly Jagex obviously never meant both zmaorak and zaros to be called the empty lord lol.

 

 

 

Its been many years since I did regicide and I've not seen any recent screenies of that letter so god knows when they changed it but clearly they have fixed it so Zaros is empty lord zamorak is dark lord

 

 

 

Which makes the disagreement factor of this debate kinda null and void as it shows my use of the empty lord as zamorak was an old jagex error tht has now been altered and tht was all we disagreed on

 

Or maybe you were just mistaken, but conspiracy theories are always fun :roll:

[Sy_Accursed]

I always assumed that Zaros knew the identities of the chief conspirators. He cursed Viggora (the human in the ghostly robes quest) to become a ghost as he was supposed to be of one of Zamoraks closest supporters who fought Zaros' guards with the other Majharat and Lord Draken.

 

 

 

This is a very good point.

 

 

 

Correction Zaros cursed no-one

 

 

 

The curse befell those who had brought the staff from its temple to kill Zaros.

 

 

 

It was a natural curse resulting from playing a part in slaying a god not an actual curse cast out by anyone

 

 

 

This entire thread is about speculating on the future of the zemergoul/mahjaratt stroy line.

 

 

 

I do not need to write assume every other word.

 

 

 

Also if you read back over my posts you'll not i highlight bit that we have been told from quests etc as fact or we know that. Then proceed to say what i think this suggest

 

 

 

My problem is that you keep declaring your opinions as fact. I'm not asking you to use the word assume before you start a sentence. I'm asking you to separate what we know from what you think.

 

 

 

And yet again I say to you if you read my posts back I make clear distinction of what is fact. Virtually all my posts take form of we known that and that which means this is likely or it is probably that such and such because of x y and z

 

 

 

Its not my fault if your not bright enough to distinguish where i switch between the too unless I put up a huge flag pole between them. I used reasoned argument where each sentence contains a theory and the reasoning