Balancing Weapons and Armor.

Youmu · May 3, 2009

As you know, currently in F2P, the only weapon that is most commonly used is the Rune Scimitar. In this suggestion, I would try to re-balance the weapons so that other weapons can be better (maces and warhammers most notably). I will also make armor suggestions so defence bonuses become more noticeable as well.

For stat changes, I used rune items as an example.

Weapons:

Dagger: Increased to Speed 7, Decreased DDS spec, Increased strength, Increased Stab

Reason: Currently, daggers are one of the worst weapons in the F2P world. If we tweak this weapon up a bit, we can at least make this weapon's speed more noticeable, and people will use it more. Dagger is also weak, so I suggest that the strength goes up a bit. I also suggest that the DDS spec be slower, so that DDS won't be overpowered. Stab should be increased as well.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +25 +12 -4 +1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +0 +0 +24 +0 Speed: 6

Changed: +38 +12 -4 +1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +0 +0 +34 +0 Speed: 7[/hide]

Claws: Increased to Speed 7, Decreased D Claws spec, Decreased Strength

Reason: Same as the dagger. Since this weapon is 2-handed, claws need a tweak more than the dagger does. Also suggest that the D claws spec is slowed down so it doesn't overpower as well. The strength should be decreased, however, because of the speed.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +26 +38 -4 +0 +0 +10 +19 +5 +0 +0 +0 +39 +0 Speed: 6

Changed: +26 +38 -4 +0 +0 +10 +19 +5 +0 +0 +0 +34 +0 Speed: 7[/hide]

Shortsword: Increased Stab accuracies, Increased strength

Reason: The stab attack of the shortsword (Rune) is currently exactly the same as a longsword (Rune). This must be tweaked so the accuracy becomes more notable. I also increased the strength so that it is comparable to the scimitar.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +38 +26 -2 +0 +0 +0 +2 +1 +0 +0 +0 +39 +0 Speed: 6

Changed: +45 +26 -2 +0 +0 +0 +2 +1 +0 +0 +0 +44 +0 Speed: 6[/hide]

Mace: Increased Strength, better Prayer bonus, better Crush bonus

Reason: Currently, mace is one of the worst weapons, mainly because it is longsword speed while it hits only as hard as a shortsword. The strength should be tweaked, to justify for the lost speed. To compete with the longsword, it should have a Crush boost as well.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +20 -2 +39 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +36 +4 Speed: 5

Changes: +20 -2 +47 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +52 +7 Speed: 5[/hide]

Scimitar: No change

Reason: One of the most overpowered weapons (especially in F2P), this weapon shoudn't be changed.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +7 +45 -2 +0 +0 +0 +1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +44 +0 Speed: 6

Changes: None[/hide]

Spear: Increased Strength bonuses, Increased defence bonuses, Increased Stab bonuses, Slight increased Slash bonuses, More likely to poison

Reason: Since spear is the most flexible weapon, it deserves to have lowered speed. However, its current strength made it exactly like the mace in a way. The strength is tweaked up a bit so it would be like a scimitar and longsword in a way, but 2-handed and more flexibility. And because it is 2-handed, I gave it better defence bonuses. The stab bonus for the spear should be increased, while the slash bonus of the spear should be increased a bit. And it should poison more likely than the dagger so it's worth using in PVP.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +36 +36 +36 +0 +0 +1 +1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +42 +0 Speed: 5

Changes: +42 +40 +36 +0 +0 +6 +3 +1 +0 +0 +0 +50 +0 Speed: 5[/hide]

Longsword: Increased strength, Increased Slash accuracies

Reason: Currently, this weapon has the most balanced speed and strength. It doesn't hit too high, and it doesn't go too fast either. I will not nerf the stab attack however, tweaking the shortsword's stab is enough. I will give it a TINY boost to the strength though. I also gave Slash bonuses so that the longsword isn't obsolete to the mace.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +38 +47 -2 +0 +0 +0 +3 +2 +0 +0 +0 +49 +0 Speed: 5

Changes: +40 +53 -2 +0 +0 +0 +3 +2 +0 +0 +0 +56 +0 Speed: 5[/hide]

Warhammer: Increased strength

Reason: Again, the warhammer's battleaxe speed and longsword strength does not make up for the warhammer's incredibly high crush accuracy. The strength should be tweaked up so it's comparable to a battleaxe.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: -4 -4 +53 -4 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +48 +0 Speed: 4

Changes: -4 -4 +53 -4 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +64 +0 Speed: 4[/hide]

Battleaxe: Increased Slash accuracies

Reason: To justify for the warhammer's big boost in strength, I suggest that the Slash accuracy should be tweaked. The Crush accuracy should be left alone, as the warhammer is supposed to be better in that area.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: -2 +48 +43 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 -1 +0 +64 +0 Speed: 4

Changes: -2 +53 +43 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 -1 +0 +64 +0 Speed: 4[/hide]

Halberd: Ability to reach 3 squares ahead, increased defence bonuses

Reason: All of halberd's stats are just below those of the 2-hander. Having the advantage to reach 2 squares isn't significant enough, so I suggest the halberd to reach an extra square beyond to make the advantage better. Again, it's 2-handed, so it deserves a defence bonus tweak.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +48 +67 +0 -4 +0 -1 +4 +5 +0 +0 +0 +68 +0 Speed: 3

Changes: +50 +72 +0 -4 +0 +2 +6 +8 +0 +0 +0 +68 +0 Speed: 3[/hide]

2-hander: Increased defence bonuses

Reason: The 2H's strength is good enough for a KO. We don't need to tweak it's strength. Its defence, however, should be increased, due to the 2H being a two-handed weapon.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: -4 +69 +50 -4 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 -1 +0 +70 +0 Speed: 3

Changes: -4 +69 +50 -4 +0 +5 +4 +4 +0 -1 +0 +70 +0 Speed: 3[/hide]

Armor:

Platebody, Platelegs: Decreased crush defence, Increase stab/slash defence

Reason: Since the platebody has a weakness to Crush, I have decreased the crush defence a bit. To balance that, I suggest that the other defence styles against melee should be increased.

[hide=Stat changes]Original:

Platebody: +0 +0 +0 -30 -10 +82 +80 +72 -6 +80 +40 +0 +0

Platelegs: +0 +0 +0 -21 -7 +51 +49 +47 -4 +49 +15 +0 +0

Changes:

Platebody: +0 +0 +0 -30 -10 +85 +85 +65 -6 +80 +40 +0 +0

Platelegs: +0 +0 +0 -25 -10 +55 +55 +40 -4 +50 +15 +0 +0[/hide]

Chainbody: Same defence as Platebody, except Crush and Stab are reversed, also made negative bonuses same as platebody

Reason: I have made the chainbody exactly equal to the platebody, so it's worth using. Since the chainbody's weakness is Stab, I have inverted the Crush and Stab defence bonuses from the platebody. The negative bonuses of the platebody should also be added to the chainbody, to justify the chainbody's advantages.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +0 +0 +0 -15 +0 +63 +72 +78 -3 +65 +40 +0 +0

Changes: +0 +0 +0 -30 -10 +65 +85 +85 -6 +80 +40 +0 +0[/hide]

Plateskirts: Decreased defence

Reason: Because of the plateskirt's size, it is lighter. However, because of this, it shouldn't have the same defence as platelegs. Since they are both prone to Crush, plateskirts deserve a nerf.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +0 +0 +0 -21 -7 +51 +49 +47 -4 +49 +15 +0 +0

Changes: +0 +0 +0 -15 -5 +45 +45 +30 -2 +40 +10 +0 +0[/hide]

Kiteshields: Decreased Stab defence

Reason: Kiteshields have a weakness to Stab, so I decreased the stab defence bonuses. To balance that, I suggest that the other defence styles should be upgraded.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +0 +0 +0 -8 -2 +44 +48 +46 -1 +46 +40 +0 +0

Changes: +0 +0 +0 -8 -2 +40 +50 +50 -1 +50 +40 +0 +0[/hide]

Sq Shields: Same defence as Kiteshields, except Stab and Crush are reversed, also made negative bonuses from kiteshields

Reason: Same as the chainbody, make Sq Shields exactly the same as Kiteshields. Except that Sq Shield's weakness is Crush, so Stab and Crush are inverted. Same reason as chainbody, the kiteshield's negative bonuses should also be applied to the sq shield.

[hide=Stat changes]Original: +0 +0 +0 -6 -2 +38 +40 +36 +0 +38 +35 +0 +0

Changes: +0 +0 +0 -8 -2 +50 +50 +40 -1 +50 +40 +0 +0[/hide]

Full/Med Helms: No change

Reason: They are both prone to crush, and Med helms are lighter. So Med helms deserve lowered defence. Full helms provide enough protection as it is, so they don't need a tweak.

[hide=Stat changes]Original:

Full Helms: +0 +0 +0 -6 -2 +30 +32 +27 -1 +30 +7 +0 +0

Med Helms: +0 +0 +0 -3 -1 +22 +23 +21 -1 +22 +7 +0 +0

Changes: None[/hide]

Gauntlets and Boots: No change

Reason: Gauntlets and boots are just a minor part of armor. They don't need tweaks right now.

[hide=Stat changes]Original:

Gauntlets: +0 +0 +0 -1 -1 +10 +11 +11 -1 +10 +10 +2 +0

Boots: +0 +0 +0 -3 -1 +12 +13 +14 +0 +0 +10 +2 +0

Changes: None[/hide]

These are my tweaks and nerfs so far. Any criticism is accepted! :

Credits:

Me for creating this suggestion.

Quelmotz for mace and spear suggestions.

Est0rrath for dds/claws spec suggestions, and longsword/2H suggestions.

Zaaps1 for suggestions about the battleaxe.

[hide=Support List]1. Quelmotz

2. Est0rrath

3. Zaaps1

4. Danil445

5. Cooldog08

6. DutchPlease

7.

8.

9.

10.[/hide]

quelmotz · May 3, 2009

You should say any "constructive criticism" is appreciated.

Back on topic, I disagree STRONGLY on the mace being boosted in speed. A mace is a heavy club-like weapon, and there is absolutely NO way it is going to be faster than a longsword/scimitar. Remaining at the same speed and POWERING up the strength will make it a cheaper alternative for crushing plated enemies with prayer bonuses.

Also, claws should be able to be poisoned, or becomes speed 8. Note that claws are 2h, so you're effectively hitting at speed 4 (!!!!!!) per hand if it is at speed 8. This is absurdly slow for such a weapon, but if strength bonuses are increased as well as the ability to be poisoned and at speed 8, claws would be ok. Still, the d claw spec will remain unchanged/nerfed as it is overpowered enough.

IMO, the spear should have the previous halberd bonus of reaching up to 2 squares away. It is quite long, isn't it? Again, crush bonuses of the spear should be reduced, stab bonuses increased. I don't see anybody trying to hammer someone else using a spear.

You should add some logical reasons why a weapon is so-and-so, for example a warhammer being strong is due to its heavy weight, halberd obviously due to length, etc.

Add me as a supporter, by the way.

Youmu · May 3, 2009

You should say any "constructive criticism" is appreciated.

Back on topic, I disagree STRONGLY on the mace being boosted in speed. A mace is a heavy club-like weapon, and there is absolutely NO way it is going to be faster than a longsword/scimitar. Remaining at the same speed and POWERING up the strength will make it a cheaper alternative for crushing plated enemies with prayer bonuses.

Also, claws should be able to be poisoned, or becomes speed 8. Note that claws are 2h, so you're effectively hitting at speed 4 (!!!!!!) per hand if it is at speed 8. This is absurdly slow for such a weapon, but if strength bonuses are increased as well as the ability to be poisoned and at speed 8, claws would be ok. Still, the d claw spec will remain unchanged/nerfed as it is overpowered enough.

IMO, the spear should have the previous halberd bonus of reaching up to 2 squares away. It is quite long, isn't it? Again, crush bonuses of the spear should be reduced, stab bonuses increased. I don't see anybody trying to hammer someone else using a spear.

You should add some logical reasons why a weapon is so-and-so, for example a warhammer being strong is due to its heavy weight, halberd obviously due to length, etc.

Add me as a supporter, by the way.

Hmm... about the mace, I was thinking about either speed or strength, but you're right. A mace is pretty heavy.

Daggers are weaker than claws, so daggers deserve poison. And NO WAY claws should become Speed 8, otherwise claws will be the next overpowered weapon.

Maybe the spear CAN do that, but then again, it is the uniqueness of the halberd, so I don't think so. You're right though, hammering with a spear is indeed less accurate than stabbing with it if you look into real life.

My "logical reasons" are already there actually, I mentioned the warhammer's underpowered strength and the halberd's "not-enough" squares to reach.

Added you to Support list.

Zaaps1 · May 5, 2009

You understand that many of the items you posted are not f2p items?

I not sure exactly how I feel about this. Part of me feels like a change isn't needed, but another part of me says that the other weapons deserve a fighting chance. However imo, the only weapons that need any sort of update in f2p are the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer. Everything else is fine, since they wouldn't be worth much anyway, even after the update.

Plus remember that many of the items are simply cheaper alternatives. Cheaper alternatives should not be given a fighting chance against their better counterparts. For example, the short sword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also, even if everything was updated like you said, it would have to be EXTREMELY accurate. More accurate than is possible, I might add. All that would happen is that players would find the new best weapon and stick to that one, ignoring the others.

quelmotz · May 6, 2009

You understand that many of the items you posted are not f2p items?

I not sure exactly how I feel about this. Part of me feels like a change isn't needed, but another part of me says that the other weapons deserve a fighting chance. However imo, the only weapons that need any sort of update in f2p are the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer. Everything else is fine, since they wouldn't be worth much anyway, even after the update.

Plus remember that many of the items are simply cheaper alternatives. Cheaper alternatives should not be given a fighting chance against their better counterparts. For example, the short sword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also, even if everything was updated like you said, it would have to be EXTREMELY accurate. More accurate than is possible, I might add. All that would happen is that players would find the new best weapon and stick to that one, ignoring the others.

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say

Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200

Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200

Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200

There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence.

Sir_Kurity · May 6, 2009

Dagger:

Dose not need an increase in speed. Good spec and poison means it can stand toe to toe with a scimitar, and increasing the speed would probably make scimitar useless.

Sure, in f2p its horrible, maybe give f2p poison? I don't know, but increasing speed, without a decrease in damage, or spec, would mean dds would be way overpowered. Just think 4 dds specs with knife speed.

Claws:

I think claws speed SHOULD be increased, but the spec should be the same speed or even less than it is now to balance it.

2 claw specs at knife speed are just not an option.

Shortsword: Agreed.

Mace: Its got a decent spec, but still agreed.

Scimitar: No. I think the best option is to make other weapons as strong as a scimitar, not to make the scimitar weaker than the other weapons.

Spear: Agreed.

Longsword: I think it should be slightly (very slightly) Increased in strength. Otherwise agreed.

Warhammer: Agreed.

Battleaxe: Agreed.

Halberd: I think its kinda fine as it is, it can be quite effectively used as a safespotter for warriors, and i think its primary purpose still exists.

2h: Nope, its good for ko's, don't make it even better by making increased str.

Platebody, legs: Nope

Chainbody:

Nope, sorry, its advantages are less negative bonuses for mage and cheapness.

Plateskirt: Agreed, why do they weigh less than platelegs anyway?

Sexist jagex.

Kitesheilds: Don't agree

Sq shield: Don't agree, same reasons as i don't agree with chainbody.

Full/med: Agree.

Boots, gaunts: Agree.

Put me on the support list, because i agree with SOME of your suggestions.

Youmu · May 6, 2009

Dagger:

Dose not need an increase in speed. Good spec and poison means it can stand toe to toe with a scimitar, and increasing the speed would probably make scimitar useless.

Sure, in f2p its horrible, maybe give f2p poison? I don't know, but increasing speed, without a decrease in damage, or spec, would mean dds would be way overpowered. Just think 4 dds specs with knife speed.

Claws:

I think claws speed SHOULD be increased, but the spec should be the same speed or even less than it is now to balance it.

2 claw specs at knife speed are just not an option.

Shortsword: Agreed.

Mace: Its got a decent spec, but still agreed.

Scimitar: No. I think the best option is to make other weapons as strong as a scimitar, not to make the scimitar weaker than the other weapons.

Spear: Agreed.

Longsword: I think it should be slightly (very slightly) Increased in strength. Otherwise agreed.

Warhammer: Agreed.

Battleaxe: Agreed.

Halberd: I think its kinda fine as it is, it can be quite effectively used as a safespotter for warriors, and i think its primary purpose still exists.

2h: Nope, its good for ko's, don't make it even better by making increased str.

Platebody, legs: Nope

Chainbody:

Nope, sorry, its advantages are less negative bonuses for mage and cheapness.

Plateskirt: Agreed, why do they weigh less than platelegs anyway?

Sexist jagex.

Kitesheilds: Don't agree

Sq shield: Don't agree, same reasons as i don't agree with chainbody.

Full/med: Agree.

Boots, gaunts: Agree.

Put me on the support list, because i agree with SOME of your suggestions.

Added you to the support list.

Oh and by they way, for the chainbodies and sq shields, they could have the exact same negative bonuses as for their plate and kite counterparts.

For the 2H: I'll just tweak it so it only hits 1 more than previous. (Like +2 to 3 or something)

For the longsword: Again, maybe I can tweak it so it hits 1 more than before.

And the reason why I nerfed the scimitar is that it shouldn't be as fast as even a dagger. Maybe the speed decrease is a bit too much since I suggested the dagger and claws to get a speed increase... Perhaps nerf down only the accuracy of the scimitar so the difference between it and longsword are noticeable.

Speaking of dagger, it should have a less chance of poisoning than the spear so the spear would be worth using.

And just nerf the dds spec so it is slower. Like a charge-up or something before putting the actual blow.

And for d claws spec, make it slower. The same reason as dds.

Zaaps1 · May 6, 2009

You understand that many of the items you posted are not f2p items?

I not sure exactly how I feel about this. Part of me feels like a change isn't needed, but another part of me says that the other weapons deserve a fighting chance. However imo, the only weapons that need any sort of update in f2p are the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer. Everything else is fine, since they wouldn't be worth much anyway, even after the update.

Plus remember that many of the items are simply cheaper alternatives. Cheaper alternatives should not be given a fighting chance against their better counterparts. For example, the short sword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also, even if everything was updated like you said, it would have to be EXTREMELY accurate. More accurate than is possible, I might add. All that would happen is that players would find the new best weapon and stick to that one, ignoring the others.

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say

Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200

Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200

Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200

There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence.

First off, I know it was only an example, but I hope you aren't serious about 200 strength bonus. I'll consider it just a miscalculation.

In short, no, the weapons do not need to be balanced. SOME of them could use an upgrade, but not so much to be able to compete with the more expensive weapons of the same metal. Here's what I mean.

Dagger/Shortsword/Longsword: Essentially 3 parts of the same whole. The shortsword is simply an improvement over the dagger, at the cost of a little money, and the longsword is a more expensive improvement over the shortsword. Now, don't get me wrong. The longsword should be able to compete with the scimitar (except using stab, not slash. Longswords aren't made to slash). But the dagger and shortsword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also remember that different items have DIFFERENT uses. The 2h is a KO weapon, so it should not have the same dps as say, scimitars or longswords. You trade off speed and defense to be able to land more accurate, and much stronger, hits. Let me put this into perspective. I can hit 22s with my R scim using basic f2p supplies and strength potion. I can hit around 30 if I pop on a R2h.

Now some items, I agree, neither have alternate uses nor get "evolved", so to speak. These items are currently used for nothing, such as the battleaxe. These items should get a small boost so they can compete with the longsword/scimitar. The warhammer, imo, should also. But then you have to remember that those items are CRUSH weapons, and they serve a unique purpose-to counter plate armor.

quelmotz · May 9, 2009

You understand that many of the items you posted are not f2p items?

I not sure exactly how I feel about this. Part of me feels like a change isn't needed, but another part of me says that the other weapons deserve a fighting chance. However imo, the only weapons that need any sort of update in f2p are the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer. Everything else is fine, since they wouldn't be worth much anyway, even after the update.

Plus remember that many of the items are simply cheaper alternatives. Cheaper alternatives should not be given a fighting chance against their better counterparts. For example, the short sword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also, even if everything was updated like you said, it would have to be EXTREMELY accurate. More accurate than is possible, I might add. All that would happen is that players would find the new best weapon and stick to that one, ignoring the others.

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say

Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200

Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200

Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200

There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence.

First off, I know it was only an example, but I hope you aren't serious about 200 strength bonus. I'll consider it just a miscalculation.

In short, no, the weapons do not need to be balanced. SOME of them could use an upgrade, but not so much to be able to compete with the more expensive weapons of the same metal. Here's what I mean.

Dagger/Shortsword/Longsword: Essentially 3 parts of the same whole. The shortsword is simply an improvement over the dagger, at the cost of a little money, and the longsword is a more expensive improvement over the shortsword. Now, don't get me wrong. The longsword should be able to compete with the scimitar (except using stab, not slash. Longswords aren't made to slash). But the dagger and shortsword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also remember that different items have DIFFERENT uses. The 2h is a KO weapon, so it should not have the same dps as say, scimitars or longswords. You trade off speed and defense to be able to land more accurate, and much stronger, hits. Let me put this into perspective. I can hit 22s with my R scim using basic f2p supplies and strength potion. I can hit around 30 if I pop on a R2h.

Now some items, I agree, neither have alternate uses nor get "evolved", so to speak. These items are currently used for nothing, such as the battleaxe. These items should get a small boost so they can compete with the longsword/scimitar. The warhammer, imo, should also. But then you have to remember that those items are CRUSH weapons, and they serve a unique purpose-to counter plate armor.

For god's sake how can the weapons not need a rebalancing.

Name me one proper use for a mace, warhammer, sq shield, claw (no spec), dagger (no spec), shortsword, spear and chainmail.

Don't tell me "different weapons have different uses" if you can't give an example of how to use those weapons stated above.

The dagger and shortsword should have their own area of speciality that the longsword isn't good at. Daggers are fast. Undisputed fact. So make them faster than the freaking scimitar. At least 2 bars faster. Shortswords are faster than longs but slower than daggers, so make them that, and boost something to make them more worth it.

Don't say a warhammer or battleaxe is good for countering plate armor when it is obvious the freaking overpowered scimitar does more damage on a plated enemy than a warhammer does. Crap.

Zaaps1 · May 9, 2009

You understand that many of the items you posted are not f2p items?

I not sure exactly how I feel about this. Part of me feels like a change isn't needed, but another part of me says that the other weapons deserve a fighting chance. However imo, the only weapons that need any sort of update in f2p are the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer. Everything else is fine, since they wouldn't be worth much anyway, even after the update.

Plus remember that many of the items are simply cheaper alternatives. Cheaper alternatives should not be given a fighting chance against their better counterparts. For example, the short sword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also, even if everything was updated like you said, it would have to be EXTREMELY accurate. More accurate than is possible, I might add. All that would happen is that players would find the new best weapon and stick to that one, ignoring the others.

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say

Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200

Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200

Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200

There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence.

First off, I know it was only an example, but I hope you aren't serious about 200 strength bonus. I'll consider it just a miscalculation.

In short, no, the weapons do not need to be balanced. SOME of them could use an upgrade, but not so much to be able to compete with the more expensive weapons of the same metal. Here's what I mean.

Dagger/Shortsword/Longsword: Essentially 3 parts of the same whole. The shortsword is simply an improvement over the dagger, at the cost of a little money, and the longsword is a more expensive improvement over the shortsword. Now, don't get me wrong. The longsword should be able to compete with the scimitar (except using stab, not slash. Longswords aren't made to slash). But the dagger and shortsword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also remember that different items have DIFFERENT uses. The 2h is a KO weapon, so it should not have the same dps as say, scimitars or longswords. You trade off speed and defense to be able to land more accurate, and much stronger, hits. Let me put this into perspective. I can hit 22s with my R scim using basic f2p supplies and strength potion. I can hit around 30 if I pop on a R2h.

Now some items, I agree, neither have alternate uses nor get "evolved", so to speak. These items are currently used for nothing, such as the battleaxe. These items should get a small boost so they can compete with the longsword/scimitar. The warhammer, imo, should also. But then you have to remember that those items are CRUSH weapons, and they serve a unique purpose-to counter plate armor.

For god's sake how can the weapons not need a rebalancing.

Name me one proper use for a mace, warhammer, sq shield, claw (no spec), dagger (no spec), shortsword, spear and chainmail.

Don't tell me "different weapons have different uses" if you can't give an example of how to use those weapons stated above.

The dagger and shortsword should have their own area of speciality that the longsword isn't good at. Daggers are fast. Undisputed fact. So make them faster than the freaking scimitar. At least 2 bars faster. Shortswords are faster than longs but slower than daggers, so make them that, and boost something to make them more worth it.

Don't say a warhammer or battleaxe is good for countering plate armor when it is obvious the freaking overpowered scimitar does more damage on a plated enemy than a warhammer does. Crap.

You've obviously totally missed the point.

"Different weapons have different uses", therefore, I said that when they're updated, they should stick to those uses. For example, 2h serves the purpose of a KO weapon. It's purpose should remain a KO weapon. It should not be updated, since it's used enough.

I said that warhammers and battleaxes are "currently used for nothing", so when they get updated they should be used to counter plate armor, but should remember that use against plate armor is what they are built for. They should only be better when using against plate armor, and far worse when using against anything else. That's balanced. Balanced isn't giving everything the same dps. Balanced is giving each weapon its own unique role to be good at, and powering it enough to be the king of that role.

You could say that the dagger serves uses the other swords don't. Just remember the dagger can be poisoned. Imo, that currently balances it out enough. You don't want something with the same dps as scimitars AND poisons. Shortswords are simply lesser longswords. I don't see why they should be better. Addy isn't better than rune, who why should shortswords be better than longswords?

Youmu · May 9, 2009

You understand that many of the items you posted are not f2p items?

I not sure exactly how I feel about this. Part of me feels like a change isn't needed, but another part of me says that the other weapons deserve a fighting chance. However imo, the only weapons that need any sort of update in f2p are the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer. Everything else is fine, since they wouldn't be worth much anyway, even after the update.

Plus remember that many of the items are simply cheaper alternatives. Cheaper alternatives should not be given a fighting chance against their better counterparts. For example, the short sword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also, even if everything was updated like you said, it would have to be EXTREMELY accurate. More accurate than is possible, I might add. All that would happen is that players would find the new best weapon and stick to that one, ignoring the others.

I don't know why is it sooooo hard to get it into people's head that we want BALANCED weapons, not changing the position of weapon usefulness and the "king" of all weapons. Balanced weapons is to say

Weapon A: Stab+200 Slash+0 Crush+0 ... Strength +200

Weapon B: Slash+200 Strength+200

Weapon C: Crush +200 Strength +200

There might be other influences due to speed, specials, ability to poison, 2handedness, etc. However, the point is all the weapons must have around equal dps, and 2h weapon must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defence.

First off, I know it was only an example, but I hope you aren't serious about 200 strength bonus. I'll consider it just a miscalculation.

In short, no, the weapons do not need to be balanced. SOME of them could use an upgrade, but not so much to be able to compete with the more expensive weapons of the same metal. Here's what I mean.

Dagger/Shortsword/Longsword: Essentially 3 parts of the same whole. The shortsword is simply an improvement over the dagger, at the cost of a little money, and the longsword is a more expensive improvement over the shortsword. Now, don't get me wrong. The longsword should be able to compete with the scimitar (except using stab, not slash. Longswords aren't made to slash). But the dagger and shortsword should not be able to compete with the longsword.

Also remember that different items have DIFFERENT uses. The 2h is a KO weapon, so it should not have the same dps as say, scimitars or longswords. You trade off speed and defense to be able to land more accurate, and much stronger, hits. Let me put this into perspective. I can hit 22s with my R scim using basic f2p supplies and strength potion. I can hit around 30 if I pop on a R2h.

Now some items, I agree, neither have alternate uses nor get "evolved", so to speak. These items are currently used for nothing, such as the battleaxe. These items should get a small boost so they can compete with the longsword/scimitar. The warhammer, imo, should also. But then you have to remember that those items are CRUSH weapons, and they serve a unique purpose-to counter plate armor.

For god's sake how can the weapons not need a rebalancing.

Name me one proper use for a mace, warhammer, sq shield, claw (no spec), dagger (no spec), shortsword, spear and chainmail.

Don't tell me "different weapons have different uses" if you can't give an example of how to use those weapons stated above.

The dagger and shortsword should have their own area of speciality that the longsword isn't good at. Daggers are fast. Undisputed fact. So make them faster than the freaking scimitar. At least 2 bars faster. Shortswords are faster than longs but slower than daggers, so make them that, and boost something to make them more worth it.

Don't say a warhammer or battleaxe is good for countering plate armor when it is obvious the freaking overpowered scimitar does more damage on a plated enemy than a warhammer does. Crap.

You've obviously totally missed the point.

"Different weapons have different uses", therefore, I said that when they're updated, they should stick to those uses. For example, 2h serves the purpose of a KO weapon. It's purpose should remain a KO weapon. It should not be updated, since it's used enough.

I said that warhammers and battleaxes are "currently used for nothing", so when they get updated they should be used to counter plate armor, but should remember that use against plate armor is what they are built for. They should only be better when using against plate armor, and far worse when using against anything else. That's balanced. Balanced isn't giving everything the same dps. Balanced is giving each weapon its own unique role to be good at, and powering it enough to be the king of that role.

You could say that the dagger serves uses the other swords don't. Just remember the dagger can be poisoned. Imo, that currently balances it out enough. You don't want something with the same dps as scimitars AND poisons. Shortswords are simply lesser longswords. I don't see why they should be better. Addy isn't better than rune, who why should shortswords be better than longswords?

This isn't the point to my suggestion. The point is to balance the weapons slightly so they have at least a use, but still not surpass the scimitar/longsword in terms of dps. For the other weapons, we were only suggesting that the uses were tweaked a little. The shortsword, for example, has a stab identical to the longsword, we want to increase the stab so shortsword is better at stabbing than longsword. The mace/warhammer lacks the damage to even have a use, so we suggested the strength to be tweakened. Daggers and claws are very weak and inaccurate, so the speed must be increased a little. For 2-handed weapons (except claws), we suggested defence to be tweaked a little so they have their uses as well.

And for the other weapons, they should keep their uses as well. The 2H, for example, is used to KO, so I only suggested the strength to be tweakened a little. The halberd is used to reach distances, so I suggested that a square is increased from its normal reach. The spear is the most flexible, so I suggested that accuracies in all areas have a tweak.

Zaaps1 · May 9, 2009

This isn't the point to my suggestion. The point is to balance the weapons slightly so they have at least a use, but still not surpass the scimitar/longsword in terms of dps. For the other weapons, we were only suggesting that the uses were tweaked a little. The shortsword, for example, has a stab identical to the longsword, we want to increase the stab so shortsword is better at stabbing than longsword. The mace/warhammer lacks the damage to even have a use, so we suggested the strength to be tweakened. Daggers and claws are very weak and inaccurate, so the speed must be increased a little. For 2-handed weapons (except claws), we suggested defence to be tweaked a little so they have their uses as well.

And for the other weapons, they should keep their uses as well. The 2H, for example, is used to KO, so I only suggested the strength to be tweakened a little. The halberd is used to reach distances, so I suggested that a square is increased from its normal reach. The spear is the most flexible, so I suggested that accuracies in all areas have a tweak.

Alright, but from the responses and OP, it didn't seem like that was the case.

Still, there are only a few items that need updating. I'll state again that some items are merely cheap alternatives to other weapons, main example being the short sword. Some things, such as the 2h, you should really leave alone. It's perfectly fine how it is. Ask any pker is they think 2h needs a change. They'll all either say no, or want to make it weaker.

Mace's uses rests in the prayer bonus it gives. That makes it useful in the times you need the extra prayer bonus from a weapon. It should only be equal to maybe the shortsword, except crush-focused. The prayer bonus compensates.

Doughnut · May 9, 2009

Well that would be all fine and well if that's how people actually viewed the cheaper alternatives. As it is now it's better to spend the extra hour making money and buy a scimitar or two hand over buying a short sword or mace. And this can not really change because unless runite bars drop in price, a dagger is always going to be more expensive then it probably should be. So the better option is to balance them to make them all viable and useful.

The big item mentioned, and probably continually mentioned, is the Warhammer and for good reason. If it were changed to be able to counter plate wearers more effectively it would at least give the hammer use.

Zaaps1 · May 9, 2009

Well that would be all fine and well if that's how people actually viewed the cheaper alternatives. As it is now it's better to spend the extra hour making money and buy a scimitar or two hand over buying a short sword or mace. And this can not really change because unless runite bars drop in price, a dagger is always going to be more expensive then it probably should be. So the better option is to balance them to make them all viable and useful.

The big item mentioned, and probably continually mentioned, is the Warhammer and for good reason. If it were changed to be able to counter plate wearers more effectively it would at least give the hammer use.

It's not how people view them now, but it's the way it was meant to be. In classic, the difference between a swordsword and longsword was huge.

Sir_Kurity · May 9, 2009

Oh and by they way, for the chainbodies and sq shields, they could have the exact same negative bonuses as for their plate and kite counterparts.

For the 2H: I'll just tweak it so it only hits 1 more than previous. (Like +2 to 3 or something)

For the longsword: Again, maybe I can tweak it so it hits 1 more than before.

And the reason why I nerfed the scimitar is that it shouldn't be as fast as even a dagger. Maybe the speed decrease is a bit too much since I suggested the dagger and claws to get a speed increase... Perhaps nerf down only the accuracy of the scimitar so the difference between it and longsword are noticeable.

Speaking of dagger, it should have a less chance of poisoning than the spear so the spear would be worth using.

And just nerf the dds spec so it is slower. Like a charge-up or something before putting the actual blow.

And for d claws spec, make it slower. The same reason as dds.

2h, seriously is good enough.

I'm thinking longsword should be stronger, but remember its spec dose hit slightly more than scimitars, (i know, its negligible, but it has something the scimmy dosent.)

Daggers, are good enough, sure there dps dosen't really come close to scimitars, but tbh, it has poison, and spec, good enough for me.

To make spears more usable, just give them more stabby stab stab bonuses, i dont really support making dagger less poisony than it allready is.

quelmotz · May 10, 2009

You've obviously totally missed the point.

"Different weapons have different uses", therefore, I said that when they're updated, they should stick to those uses. For example, 2h serves the purpose of a KO weapon. It's purpose should remain a KO weapon. It should not be updated, since it's used enough.

I said that warhammers and battleaxes are "currently used for nothing", so when they get updated they should be used to counter plate armor, but should remember that use against plate armor is what they are built for. They should only be better when using against plate armor, and far worse when using against anything else. That's balanced. Balanced isn't giving everything the same dps. Balanced is giving each weapon its own unique role to be good at, and powering it enough to be the king of that role.

You could say that the dagger serves uses the other swords don't. Just remember the dagger can be poisoned. Imo, that currently balances it out enough. You don't want something with the same dps as scimitars AND poisons. Shortswords are simply lesser longswords. I don't see why they should be better. Addy isn't better than rune, who why should shortswords be better than longswords?

Seriously, you're contradicting yourself. You said weapons don't need an update and they're fine as they are, and then you said warhammers require an update but they're balanced? What the hell are you talking about?

Firstly, I agree that the 2h doesn't need a balancing, but I never said it did anyway.

Warhammers, maces, any other crushing weapons. The problem lies in the fact that their freaking dps isn't even as high as a scimitar when attacking plated opponents. And don't tell me maces are good for prayer bonuses. You are an idiot if you use maces as they are absolutely useless in just about any way. The incredibly insignificant prayer bonuses are negligible, and its stats are one of the crappiest in the history of Runescape. Furthermore, its slow. Maces aren't crappy priest weapons, they are brutal, [bleep]ed clubs capable of shattering plated armor into pieces. So are warhammers. Whereas in Runescape these weapons are depicted as rubbish worthy of only stupid priests and dumb idiots.

The shortsword. Fast, accurate, easy to carry. Though it doesn't deliver much of a strong attack, a stab in a vital organ can easily kill. Unlike shortswords in Runescape, these weapons are deadly in the hands of a master. In Runescape, shortswords are the poor man's longsword, when these weapons serve ENTIRELY different purposes in real life.

The longsword. A knight's friend. Strong, accurate, and reasonably easy to use and carry, these weapons are basically balanced. So they are in Runescape, but they probably require a small boost.

The dagger. Deadly when used correctly. Although it is faster and as accurate as a shortsword, it is even easier to carry and can even be thrown (but who cares). It can't be used to defend oneself, but its speed, accuracy and deadliness when used correctly makes it a very useful weapon.

The spear. The standard weapon of issue to Roman and Chinese foot soldiers. How could it be such a crappy weapon in Runescape? It is powerful, accurate, and can be used for defending. It can also be thrown (but who cares, anyway), and used in conjunction with a shield. A boost to stab accuracy and strength will be needed, and decrease in crush/slash accuracy.

Claws. Rarely used in real life, but probably deadly still. Because of the claws attachment to the user's hands, it will be VERY VERY fast, faster than a dagger. The power will also be higher, with increased accuracy, but the downside is it is 2 handed.

Battleaxes. Brutal weapons used by barbarians, these weapons are powerful, but heavy and not very accurate. They should be weaker than Warhammers but faster, and about the same accuracy.

Halberds. Long polearms with high strength and accuracy, but are slow and 2handed. They should have higher power, but a small boost to make them as useful as 2h swords would be enough.

I have already stated all the reasonings for the balance of the weapons. The battleaxe, 2h sword and scimitar could just be left alone, maybe longswords too. The others HAVE to be balanced, or else they'll just be wasting space.

Now don't tell me that so-and-so weapon doesn't deserve a re-balancing unless you provide proper reasoning, not like the stupid reasoning behind why maces should be left alone.

Zaaps1 · May 10, 2009

Underlined

You've obviously totally missed the point.

"Different weapons have different uses", therefore, I said that when they're updated, they should stick to those uses. For example, 2h serves the purpose of a KO weapon. It's purpose should remain a KO weapon. It should not be updated, since it's used enough.

I said that warhammers and battleaxes are "currently used for nothing", so when they get updated they should be used to counter plate armor, but should remember that use against plate armor is what they are built for. They should only be better when using against plate armor, and far worse when using against anything else. That's balanced. Balanced isn't giving everything the same dps. Balanced is giving each weapon its own unique role to be good at, and powering it enough to be the king of that role.

You could say that the dagger serves uses the other swords don't. Just remember the dagger can be poisoned. Imo, that currently balances it out enough. You don't want something with the same dps as scimitars AND poisons. Shortswords are simply lesser longswords. I don't see why they should be better. Addy isn't better than rune, who why should shortswords be better than longswords?

Seriously, you're contradicting yourself. You said weapons don't need an update and they're fine as they are, and then you said warhammers require an update but they're balanced? What the hell are you talking about?

When did I contradict myself? I stated the first post that I had mixed feelings, and that some weapons should be given a fighting chance. I never stated that warhammers are balanced, if you read it again, you'll see.

Firstly, I agree that the 2h doesn't need a balancing, but I never said it did anyway.

I believe you said that they should be given the same dps as scimitars, and that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense."

Warhammers, maces, any other crushing weapons. The problem lies in the fact that their freaking dps isn't even as high as a scimitar when attacking plated opponents. And don't tell me maces are good for prayer bonuses. You are an idiot if you use maces as they are absolutely useless in just about any way. The incredibly insignificant prayer bonuses are negligible, and its stats are one of the crappiest in the history of Runescape. Furthermore, its slow. Maces aren't crappy priest weapons, they are brutal, [bleep]ed clubs capable of shattering plated armor into pieces. So are warhammers. Whereas in Runescape these weapons are depicted as rubbish worthy of only stupid priests and dumb idiots.

+8 prayer is not negligible.

Plus you stated all the reasons why I think they should be given a boost, just that the mace be given smaller boosts than the other 2 because it has prayer bonus.

The shortsword. Fast, accurate, easy to carry. Though it doesn't deliver much of a strong attack, a stab in a vital organ can easily kill. Unlike shortswords in Runescape, these weapons are deadly in the hands of a master. In Runescape, shortswords are the poor man's longsword, when these weapons serve ENTIRELY different purposes in real life.

Yeah so do rings.

The longsword. A knight's friend. Strong, accurate, and reasonably easy to use and carry, these weapons are basically balanced. So they are in Runescape, but they probably require a small boost.

Ok that's what I said though...

The dagger. Deadly when used correctly. Although it is faster and as accurate as a shortsword, it is even easier to carry and can even be thrown (but who cares). It can't be used to defend oneself, but its speed, accuracy and deadliness when used correctly makes it a very useful weapon.

It can be poisoned, fair enough, I think.

The spear. The standard weapon of issue to Roman and Chinese foot soldiers. How could it be such a crappy weapon in Runescape? It is powerful, accurate, and can be used for defending. It can also be thrown (but who cares, anyway), and used in conjunction with a shield. A boost to stab accuracy and strength will be needed, and decrease in crush/slash accuracy.

I agree here, but it's still primarily defensive in nature. I think you said earlier that it should be something other than defense. I don't think so. It's main purpose is defense. Those Roman and Chinese armies carried swords for closer range attacks.

Claws. Rarely used in real life, but probably deadly still. Because of the claws attachment to the user's hands, it will be VERY VERY fast, faster than a dagger. The power will also be higher, with increased accuracy, but the downside is it is 2 handed.

Lol, ancient armies used claws irl?

Don't increase the accuracy or power, that would make more people rant about d claws.

Battleaxes. Brutal weapons used by barbarians, these weapons are powerful, but heavy and not very accurate. They should be weaker than Warhammers but faster, and about the same accuracy.

Cool. See above post on maces.

Halberds. Long polearms with high strength and accuracy, but are slow and 2handed. They should have higher power, but a small boost to make them as useful as 2h swords would be enough.

They have ranged-capabilities. That makes up for some.

I have already stated all the reasonings for the balance of the weapons. The battleaxe, 2h sword and scimitar could just be left alone, maybe longswords too. The others HAVE to be balanced, or else they'll just be wasting space.

Now don't tell me that so-and-so weapon doesn't deserve a re-balancing unless you provide proper reasoning, not like the stupid reasoning behind why maces should be left alone.

Would you like numbers on my statements? I can give it to you.

Don't just think about f2p either, remember any chances would carry over to p2p weapons (dragon). Just take note of that.

Sir_Kurity · May 10, 2009

+8 prayer is not negligible.

Isnt it +6 for dragon mace?

Zaaps1 · May 10, 2009

+8 prayer is not negligible.

Isnt it +6 for dragon mace?

+5 lol we're both wrong. I think I was thinking of the Godsword.

Anyway, point being that the prayer bonus counts for a lot. +5 prayer can make your 15% prayers last for a lot longer.

quelmotz · May 11, 2009

+8 prayer is not negligible.

Isnt it +6 for dragon mace?

+5 lol we're both wrong. I think I was thinking of the Godsword.

Anyway, point being that the prayer bonus counts for a lot. +5 prayer can make your 15% prayers last for a lot longer.

Big deal. When you can kill the freaking enemy at least more than 15% faster if you use a scimitar.

BOLD

Underlined

You've obviously totally missed the point.

"Different weapons have different uses", therefore, I said that when they're updated, they should stick to those uses. For example, 2h serves the purpose of a KO weapon. It's purpose should remain a KO weapon. It should not be updated, since it's used enough.

I said that warhammers and battleaxes are "currently used for nothing", so when they get updated they should be used to counter plate armor, but should remember that use against plate armor is what they are built for. They should only be better when using against plate armor, and far worse when using against anything else. That's balanced. Balanced isn't giving everything the same dps. Balanced is giving each weapon its own unique role to be good at, and powering it enough to be the king of that role.

You could say that the dagger serves uses the other swords don't. Just remember the dagger can be poisoned. Imo, that currently balances it out enough. You don't want something with the same dps as scimitars AND poisons. Shortswords are simply lesser longswords. I don't see why they should be better. Addy isn't better than rune, who why should shortswords be better than longswords?

Seriously, you're contradicting yourself. You said weapons don't need an update and they're fine as they are, and then you said warhammers require an update but they're balanced? What the hell are you talking about?

When did I contradict myself? I stated the first post that I had mixed feelings, and that some weapons should be given a fighting chance. I never stated that warhammers are balanced, if you read it again, you'll see.

Firstly, I agree that the 2h doesn't need a balancing, but I never said it did anyway.

I believe you said that they should be given the same dps as scimitars, and that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense." So? It is a fact that they have to have enough str/accuracy to justify the lower speed/defence. They are only used for ko nowadays, and 2h swords weren't used for kos in real life.

Warhammers, maces, any other crushing weapons. The problem lies in the fact that their freaking dps isn't even as high as a scimitar when attacking plated opponents. And don't tell me maces are good for prayer bonuses. You are an idiot if you use maces as they are absolutely useless in just about any way. The incredibly insignificant prayer bonuses are negligible, and its stats are one of the crappiest in the history of Runescape. Furthermore, its slow. Maces aren't crappy priest weapons, they are brutal, [bleep]ed clubs capable of shattering plated armor into pieces. So are warhammers. Whereas in Runescape these weapons are depicted as rubbish worthy of only stupid priests and dumb idiots.

+8 prayer is not negligible. +8? Big deal. Refer to above.

Plus you stated all the reasons why I think they should be given a boost, just that the mace be given smaller boosts than the other 2 because it has prayer bonus. You know what? I already mentioned all these stuff in my "crushing and stabbing weapons never used" thread in the rants forum.

The shortsword. Fast, accurate, easy to carry. Though it doesn't deliver much of a strong attack, a stab in a vital organ can easily kill. Unlike shortswords in Runescape, these weapons are deadly in the hands of a master. In Runescape, shortswords are the poor man's longsword, when these weapons serve ENTIRELY different purposes in real life.

Yeah so do rings. What the hell are you talking about.

The longsword. A knight's friend. Strong, accurate, and reasonably easy to use and carry, these weapons are basically balanced. So they are in Runescape, but they probably require a small boost.

Ok that's what I said though... As I said, sonic3190 said it first. So don't act like you said it first when he said it first.

The dagger. Deadly when used correctly. Although it is faster and as accurate as a shortsword, it is even easier to carry and can even be thrown (but who cares). It can't be used to defend oneself, but its speed, accuracy and deadliness when used correctly makes it a very useful weapon.

It can be poisoned, fair enough, I think. Ahem...f2p? Seriously this thread is about f2p so shut up about poisoning.

The spear. The standard weapon of issue to Roman and Chinese foot soldiers. How could it be such a crappy weapon in Runescape? It is powerful, accurate, and can be used for defending. It can also be thrown (but who cares, anyway), and used in conjunction with a shield. A boost to stab accuracy and strength will be needed, and decrease in crush/slash accuracy.

I agree here, but it's still primarily defensive in nature. I think you said earlier that it should be something other than defense. I don't think so. It's main purpose is defense. Those Roman and Chinese armies carried swords for closer range attacks. Primarily used for defense? Why the hell is it called a "weapon" for then? Really, your comments make no sense. Spears are good for both attack and defence, and are probably one of the most balanced 2handed weapons IRL.

Claws. Rarely used in real life, but probably deadly still. Because of the claws attachment to the user's hands, it will be VERY VERY fast, faster than a dagger. The power will also be higher, with increased accuracy, but the downside is it is 2 handed.

Lol, ancient armies used claws irl? They don't, but I used common SENSE.

Don't increase the accuracy or power, that would make more people rant about d claws.

Nerf the spec but increase the base power.

Battleaxes. Brutal weapons used by barbarians, these weapons are powerful, but heavy and not very accurate. They should be weaker than Warhammers but faster, and about the same accuracy.

Cool. See above post on maces. And? Do they give +5/+ whatever to prayer? No.

Halberds. Long polearms with high strength and accuracy, but are slow and 2handed. They should have higher power, but a small boost to make them as useful as 2h swords would be enough.

They have ranged-capabilities. That makes up for some. Who cares. Look at how often this is used. Anyway, I'm f2p so I don't care about this.

I have already stated all the reasonings for the balance of the weapons. The battleaxe, 2h sword and scimitar could just be left alone, maybe longswords too. The others HAVE to be balanced, or else they'll just be wasting space.

Now don't tell me that so-and-so weapon doesn't deserve a re-balancing unless you provide proper reasoning, not like the stupid reasoning behind why maces should be left alone.

Would you like numbers on my statements? I can give it to you. You need to learn to do something instead of saying that you can do something. Talk is cheap.

Don't just think about f2p either, remember any chances would carry over to p2p weapons (dragon). Just take note of that. Then make them not carry over for some that would be overpowered.

Zaaps1 · May 11, 2009

1) Would you like to test that then?

2) Who cares what they were used for irl? It's what they're used for in-game that matters. I think people could care less if they weren't ko weapons irl. Plus, YOU said that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense", taken out of context when you wanted 2h swords to get an update...

3) +5 prayer can make your prayers last a long time. I think you're misunderstanding me again. I'm not saying maces SHOULDN'T get an update. I'm saying they should be updated LESS than the battleaxe/warhammer because they give the prayer benefit, which the others do not.

4) And...?

5) Just because something serves a purpose irl, doesn't mean that's the best way to add it. Take a look at the Ourg Bones update. It's true that real life animals drop corresponding bones (wolf = wolf bones, etc.), but do that with Gen. Graar. and you get a lot of people ranting about it. Think about the game more than real life. A lot of stuff happens in this game that doesn't happen in real life, example being magic and enchanted rings.

6) Sonic said it first, I said it later. Who cares? I still said it. Alright cool, Sonic gets credit for saying it first on this thread. Besides the fact that many people have said it way before this thread even came into existence, that's fine with me. I'm just restating...

7) I'll group this with the last one.

8) It's good for attack and defense, but honestly the spear was used more for defense. I mean just look at it. It lets you hide behind and shield and still get good range at an opponent. You don't charge at the enemy on foot with a spear. You stop their advance with a spear.

9) So you want Jagex to recalculate the spec, recode it, reimplementing it, retest it, and listen to nerf rants all over again? I think that's more trouble than it's worth. Better to leave claws alone imo, or just update the bronze-rune ones. That's the only thing I have against claws. If you're going to update them, just leave dragon alone. Common sense, maybe? But still noteworthy of mention, right?

10) See above on maces again. I said they should be updated, just more than maces.

11) Then why mention it? Halberd is actually used fairly often. It should get a slightly speed boost, but that's it. A small boost in speed would make it able to compete with some rangers at most training spots. No one would use it for PvP. Why take something 2h speed, but like less than scimitar strength?

12) I haven't seen you prove anything with testing either. You've just been making statements as well. If you want me to test some stuff for you, you'd better test it too. You're stilling me that talk is cheap, yet where is your proof? It's all contain in facts anyone could get from the knowledge base or tip.it.

13) So you're going to give f2p and update and not p2p? Interesting idea, giving those who paid 9-10x more nothing, and those who gave almost nothing a huge update. You're f2p, so it's natrual to want updates. But you can't leech of Jagex's time for an update that ONLY f2p will get...

12)

quelmotz · May 13, 2009

1) Would you like to test that then?

2) Who cares what they were used for irl? It's what they're used for in-game that matters. I think people could care less if they weren't ko weapons irl. Plus, YOU said that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense", taken out of context when you wanted 2h swords to get an update...

3) +5 prayer can make your prayers last a long time. I think you're misunderstanding me again. I'm not saying maces SHOULDN'T get an update. I'm saying they should be updated LESS than the battleaxe/warhammer because they give the prayer benefit, which the others do not.

4) And...?

5) Just because something serves a purpose irl, doesn't mean that's the best way to add it. Take a look at the Ourg Bones update. It's true that real life animals drop corresponding bones (wolf = wolf bones, etc.), but do that with Gen. Graar. and you get a lot of people ranting about it. Think about the game more than real life. A lot of stuff happens in this game that doesn't happen in real life, example being magic and enchanted rings.

6) Sonic said it first, I said it later. Who cares? I still said it. Alright cool, Sonic gets credit for saying it first on this thread. Besides the fact that many people have said it way before this thread even came into existence, that's fine with me. I'm just restating...

7) I'll group this with the last one.

8) It's good for attack and defense, but honestly the spear was used more for defense. I mean just look at it. It lets you hide behind and shield and still get good range at an opponent. You don't charge at the enemy on foot with a spear. You stop their advance with a spear.

9) So you want Jagex to recalculate the spec, recode it, reimplementing it, retest it, and listen to nerf rants all over again? I think that's more trouble than it's worth. Better to leave claws alone imo, or just update the bronze-rune ones. That's the only thing I have against claws. If you're going to update them, just leave dragon alone. Common sense, maybe? But still noteworthy of mention, right?

10) See above on maces again. I said they should be updated, just more than maces.

11) Then why mention it? Halberd is actually used fairly often. It should get a slightly speed boost, but that's it. A small boost in speed would make it able to compete with some rangers at most training spots. No one would use it for PvP. Why take something 2h speed, but like less than scimitar strength?

12) I haven't seen you prove anything with testing either. You've just been making statements as well. If you want me to test some stuff for you, you'd better test it too. You're stilling me that talk is cheap, yet where is your proof? It's all contain in facts anyone could get from the knowledge base or tip.it.

13) So you're going to give f2p and update and not p2p? Interesting idea, giving those who paid 9-10x more nothing, and those who gave almost nothing a huge update. You're f2p, so it's natrual to want updates. But you can't leech of Jagex's time for an update that ONLY f2p will get...

12)

I'm really sick of arguing with you already. About the claws, its jagex's freaking fault for making a severely overpowered special attack. Fine, then go and change you beloved p2p weapons. I don't know about them and I don't care. Since you're p2p, make your own thread about how THOSE weapons should be changed. I wouldn't say anything as its none of my business. Spears being used for defence. In your dreams. What would do more damage, a heavy wooden stick with a sharp knifeblade on top or a short curved sword? Obviously the spear. Nobody is going to use a spear for defending when they can just take two freaking shields and be practically invincible. Seriously.

Its my opinion that f2p weapons are severely unbalanced and I want to change them. So what? I didn't ask you to come and persuade me to change my mind or tell me so-and-so shouldn't be powered up. I'll never change my mind. Period. Especially for this. Forget it if you're trying to make me change my opinion.

Zaaps1 · May 13, 2009

1) Would you like to test that then?

2) Who cares what they were used for irl? It's what they're used for in-game that matters. I think people could care less if they weren't ko weapons irl. Plus, YOU said that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense", taken out of context when you wanted 2h swords to get an update...

3) +5 prayer can make your prayers last a long time. I think you're misunderstanding me again. I'm not saying maces SHOULDN'T get an update. I'm saying they should be updated LESS than the battleaxe/warhammer because they give the prayer benefit, which the others do not.

4) And...?

5) Just because something serves a purpose irl, doesn't mean that's the best way to add it. Take a look at the Ourg Bones update. It's true that real life animals drop corresponding bones (wolf = wolf bones, etc.), but do that with Gen. Graar. and you get a lot of people ranting about it. Think about the game more than real life. A lot of stuff happens in this game that doesn't happen in real life, example being magic and enchanted rings.

6) Sonic said it first, I said it later. Who cares? I still said it. Alright cool, Sonic gets credit for saying it first on this thread. Besides the fact that many people have said it way before this thread even came into existence, that's fine with me. I'm just restating...

7) I'll group this with the last one.

8) It's good for attack and defense, but honestly the spear was used more for defense. I mean just look at it. It lets you hide behind and shield and still get good range at an opponent. You don't charge at the enemy on foot with a spear. You stop their advance with a spear.

9) So you want Jagex to recalculate the spec, recode it, reimplementing it, retest it, and listen to nerf rants all over again? I think that's more trouble than it's worth. Better to leave claws alone imo, or just update the bronze-rune ones. That's the only thing I have against claws. If you're going to update them, just leave dragon alone. Common sense, maybe? But still noteworthy of mention, right?

10) See above on maces again. I said they should be updated, just more than maces.

11) Then why mention it? Halberd is actually used fairly often. It should get a slightly speed boost, but that's it. A small boost in speed would make it able to compete with some rangers at most training spots. No one would use it for PvP. Why take something 2h speed, but like less than scimitar strength?

12) I haven't seen you prove anything with testing either. You've just been making statements as well. If you want me to test some stuff for you, you'd better test it too. You're stilling me that talk is cheap, yet where is your proof? It's all contain in facts anyone could get from the knowledge base or tip.it.

13) So you're going to give f2p and update and not p2p? Interesting idea, giving those who paid 9-10x more nothing, and those who gave almost nothing a huge update. You're f2p, so it's natrual to want updates. But you can't leech of Jagex's time for an update that ONLY f2p will get...

12)

I'm really sick of arguing with you already. About the claws, its jagex's freaking fault for making a severely overpowered special attack. Fine, then go and change you beloved p2p weapons. I don't know about them and I don't care. Since you're p2p, make your own thread about how THOSE weapons should be changed. I wouldn't say anything as its none of my business. Spears being used for defence. In your dreams. What would do more damage, a heavy wooden stick with a sharp knifeblade on top or a short curved sword? Obviously the spear. Nobody is going to use a spear for defending when they can just take two freaking shields and be practically invincible. Seriously.

Its my opinion that f2p weapons are severely unbalanced and I want to change them. So what? I didn't ask you to come and persuade me to change my mind or tell me so-and-so shouldn't be powered up. I'll never change my mind. Period. Especially for this. Forget it if you're trying to make me change my opinion.

YOU brought up 13 points. I'M just answering them. I know you said you didn't want to get into huge arguments, but I'm just replying to what you say.

D claws ARE overpowered. Agreed. Jagex's fault? Agreed. Should they be changed? I think so as well.

You should, however, learn to read a bit more carefully. I never said p2p weapons should be changed, so why should I make my own thread about that? My whole point is that this is fine how it is. Is this none of my business? I've been f2p for 3 out of the 4 years I'm been a RS player, and I'm currently free player and will likely not return to members for a while. So is this my business? As a long time and current free player, it is.

Plus if members stuff isn't your business, why are you making references to spears, claws, and halberds?

Do you even know what defending in war really is? Defending isn't blocking damage, so why would you take 2 shields? What are you going to do? Kick him to death after you block one hit? No. You hide behind the shield, and use the spear so you can hit him, but he can't hit you (advantage is in your longer reach). Plus if they do get to you, you have the shield to block. Honestly, what good would 2 shields do for you? When you are charging into someone, the spear really does no good. You can only stab with it, which is too easily blocked. The only way you'd use a spear for all-out offense is if you're on horseback.

I'm not here to change your opinion. You can have your opinion. On the same note, I can have mine. What is this thread? Is this thread a "support this idea or gtfo" thread? Are you trying to block every person who does not agree with you? Well I have two things to say to that:

1) OMFG learn to read....I said that weapons SHOULD get a change, why do you keep thinking I say they shouldn't?! I feel like I state this every single post, WEAPONS SHOULD BE CHANGED!!!!!!!! On that front, I can be considered a support. I think your idea is good and should be added, just not to the extent you propose, and your ideas has some problems. I'm only trying to point out those problems. Why? You think your idea is 100% perfect? You think it's flawless? You think you're so good that you can't possibly make a mistake? Why even post it then? Obviously, because you posted, you wanted feedback and supporters. Supporters you got, but your idea isn't perfect. I'm trying to point out problems it has. I know that I'm against you in the other thread about mages. That does not mean I'm against EVERY THREAD YOU POST IN. Keep what happens in that thread in that thread.

2) You have neither the authority nor right to bar non-supporters from your thread. Why? You think your idea is so perfect there can't possibly be dissenters? Do you want every single post to be "omfg i love you quelmotz this idea is the best thing in the world!!!! add now!!!!!!!!". Fine. If that's what you want, I can give that to you, and you go tell everybody that quelmotz doesn't want to listen to people who disagree with him. I've told you this before. You can't close your mind to other people's opinions. You have made this thread to try and convince people to support you. If you are not willing to listen to people who don't entirely agree with you, then you have no right to tell others that what you say is the best. In short, if you do not listen to non-supporters, that nullifies your thread as a suggestion and leaves it at nothing more than a pep-rally.

Ok, now let's get a few things straight. I am a supporter. I do not entirely agree. I am only trying to correct some problems that your idea has.

quelmotz · May 15, 2009

1) Would you like to test that then?

2) Who cares what they were used for irl? It's what they're used for in-game that matters. I think people could care less if they weren't ko weapons irl. Plus, YOU said that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense", taken out of context when you wanted 2h swords to get an update...

3) +5 prayer can make your prayers last a long time. I think you're misunderstanding me again. I'm not saying maces SHOULDN'T get an update. I'm saying they should be updated LESS than the battleaxe/warhammer because they give the prayer benefit, which the others do not.

4) And...?

5) Just because something serves a purpose irl, doesn't mean that's the best way to add it. Take a look at the Ourg Bones update. It's true that real life animals drop corresponding bones (wolf = wolf bones, etc.), but do that with Gen. Graar. and you get a lot of people ranting about it. Think about the game more than real life. A lot of stuff happens in this game that doesn't happen in real life, example being magic and enchanted rings.

6) Sonic said it first, I said it later. Who cares? I still said it. Alright cool, Sonic gets credit for saying it first on this thread. Besides the fact that many people have said it way before this thread even came into existence, that's fine with me. I'm just restating...

7) I'll group this with the last one.

8) It's good for attack and defense, but honestly the spear was used more for defense. I mean just look at it. It lets you hide behind and shield and still get good range at an opponent. You don't charge at the enemy on foot with a spear. You stop their advance with a spear.

9) So you want Jagex to recalculate the spec, recode it, reimplementing it, retest it, and listen to nerf rants all over again? I think that's more trouble than it's worth. Better to leave claws alone imo, or just update the bronze-rune ones. That's the only thing I have against claws. If you're going to update them, just leave dragon alone. Common sense, maybe? But still noteworthy of mention, right?

10) See above on maces again. I said they should be updated, just more than maces.

11) Then why mention it? Halberd is actually used fairly often. It should get a slightly speed boost, but that's it. A small boost in speed would make it able to compete with some rangers at most training spots. No one would use it for PvP. Why take something 2h speed, but like less than scimitar strength?

12) I haven't seen you prove anything with testing either. You've just been making statements as well. If you want me to test some stuff for you, you'd better test it too. You're stilling me that talk is cheap, yet where is your proof? It's all contain in facts anyone could get from the knowledge base or tip.it.

13) So you're going to give f2p and update and not p2p? Interesting idea, giving those who paid 9-10x more nothing, and those who gave almost nothing a huge update. You're f2p, so it's natrual to want updates. But you can't leech of Jagex's time for an update that ONLY f2p will get...

12)

I'm really sick of arguing with you already. About the claws, its jagex's freaking fault for making a severely overpowered special attack. Fine, then go and change you beloved p2p weapons. I don't know about them and I don't care. Since you're p2p, make your own thread about how THOSE weapons should be changed. I wouldn't say anything as its none of my business. Spears being used for defence. In your dreams. What would do more damage, a heavy wooden stick with a sharp knifeblade on top or a short curved sword? Obviously the spear. Nobody is going to use a spear for defending when they can just take two freaking shields and be practically invincible. Seriously.

Its my opinion that f2p weapons are severely unbalanced and I want to change them. So what? I didn't ask you to come and persuade me to change my mind or tell me so-and-so shouldn't be powered up. I'll never change my mind. Period. Especially for this. Forget it if you're trying to make me change my opinion.

YOU brought up 13 points. I'M just answering them. I know you said you didn't want to get into huge arguments, but I'm just replying to what you say.

D claws ARE overpowered. Agreed. Jagex's fault? Agreed. Should they be changed? I think so as well.

You should, however, learn to read a bit more carefully. I never said p2p weapons should be changed, so why should I make my own thread about that? My whole point is that this is fine how it is. Is this none of my business? I've been f2p for 3 out of the 4 years I'm been a RS player, and I'm currently free player and will likely not return to members for a while. So is this my business? As a long time and current free player, it is.

Plus if members stuff isn't your business, why are you making references to spears, claws, and halberds?

Do you even know what defending in war really is? Defending isn't blocking damage, so why would you take 2 shields? What are you going to do? Kick him to death after you block one hit? No. You hide behind the shield, and use the spear so you can hit him, but he can't hit you (advantage is in your longer reach). Plus if they do get to you, you have the shield to block. Honestly, what good would 2 shields do for you? When you are charging into someone, the spear really does no good. You can only stab with it, which is too easily blocked. The only way you'd use a spear for all-out offense is if you're on horseback.

I'm not here to change your opinion. You can have your opinion. On the same note, I can have mine. What is this thread? Is this thread a "support this idea or gtfo" thread? Are you trying to block every person who does not agree with you? Well I have two things to say to that:

1) OMFG learn to read....I said that weapons SHOULD get a change, why do you keep thinking I say they shouldn't?! I feel like I state this every single post, WEAPONS SHOULD BE CHANGED!!!!!!!! On that front, I can be considered a support. I think your idea is good and should be added, just not to the extent you propose, and your ideas has some problems. I'm only trying to point out those problems. Why? You think your idea is 100% perfect? You think it's flawless? You think you're so good that you can't possibly make a mistake? Why even post it then? Obviously, because you posted, you wanted feedback and supporters. Supporters you got, but your idea isn't perfect. I'm trying to point out problems it has. I know that I'm against you in the other thread about mages. That does not mean I'm against EVERY THREAD YOU POST IN. Keep what happens in that thread in that thread.

2) You have neither the authority nor right to bar non-supporters from your thread. Why? You think your idea is so perfect there can't possibly be dissenters? Do you want every single post to be "omfg i love you quelmotz this idea is the best thing in the world!!!! add now!!!!!!!!". Fine. If that's what you want, I can give that to you, and you go tell everybody that quelmotz doesn't want to listen to people who disagree with him. I've told you this before. You can't close your mind to other people's opinions. You have made this thread to try and convince people to support you. If you are not willing to listen to people who don't entirely agree with you, then you have no right to tell others that what you say is the best. In short, if you do not listen to non-supporters, that nullifies your thread as a suggestion and leaves it at nothing more than a pep-rally.

Ok, now let's get a few things straight. I am a supporter. I do not entirely agree. I am only trying to correct some problems that your idea has.

This isn't my thread at all. You say that weapons should get a change, but your arguments prove otherwise. Everything I say about how to change the weapons you have to disagree. Is that what you want to do? Just disagree with everything I say and don't suggest anything? Just go and make your own thread for god's sake. I never said everyone has to agree with me. So what if I hate idiots who disagree with me for no apparent reason or talk crap? (this isn't referring to you)

Don't get influenced by that idiot hihihi27. He says I don't have the right to bar non-supporters from posting. I don't, and I never said I did. I just told the NON-SUPPORTERS WHO POST CRAP and don't give proper reasons or evidence to back up their opinions to get the hell out of my thread. What's the point of having them there? Boost post count? Who cares. Bump my thread? This isn't the RSOF. Waste space? Tip.it is a non-profit organisation and they don't need idiots wasting their precious space. Ok, so I can't control them. At least I tried to get them out. So to get things straight, you agree that I don't have the right to tell idiots to shut up and get lost? If so, I have nothing to say to you.

Ok, let me take a shot at it now.

Rune Dagger: + 25 + 12 - 4 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 24 + 0 Speed: 6

New: + 27 + 12 - 4 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 24 + 0 Speed: 7

Rune Mace: + 20 - 2 + 39 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 36 + 4 Speed: 5

New: + 20 - 2 + 42 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 48 + 0 Speed: 4

Rune Sword: + 38 + 26 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 39 + 0 Speed: 6

New: + 45 + 26 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 40 + 0 Speed: 6

Rune Scimitar: + 7 + 45 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 44 + 0 Speed: 6

New: + 7 + 52 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 44 + 0 Speed: 5

Rune Warhammer: - 4 - 4 + 53 - 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 48 + 0 Speed: 4

New: - 4 - 4 + 44 - 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 62 + 0 Speed: 4

Rune Battleaxe: +2 + 48 + 43 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 - 1 + 0 + 64 + 0 Speed: 4

New: +2 + 50 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 - 1 + 0 + 56 + 0 Speed: 4

Rune Sq. Shield: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 6 - 2 + 38 + 40 + 36 + 0 + 38 + 35 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 8 - 2 + 44 + 44 + 36 -1 + 46 + 40 + 0 + 0

Rune Kite Shield: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 8 - 2 + 44 + 48 + 46 - 1 + 46 + 40 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 8 - 2 + 36 + 44 + 44 - 1 + 46 + 40 + 0 + 0

Rune chainbody: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 15 + 0 + 63 + 72 + 78 - 3 + 65 + 40 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 30 - 10 + 65 + 80 + 80 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 0 + 0

Rune platebody: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 30 - 10 + 82 + 80 + 72 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 30 - 10 + 80 + 80 + 65 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 0 + 0

That's all. Again, I repeat, you don't have to try to tell me to change my opinion. I'll listen to your opinions, ideas, suggestions, whatever, but you don't have to order me to keep an open mind. As I said, I don't need a psychiatrist.

Youmu · May 15, 2009

1) Would you like to test that then?

2) Who cares what they were used for irl? It's what they're used for in-game that matters. I think people could care less if they weren't ko weapons irl. Plus, YOU said that "they must have enough str/accuracy/speed to justify the loss of defense", taken out of context when you wanted 2h swords to get an update...

3) +5 prayer can make your prayers last a long time. I think you're misunderstanding me again. I'm not saying maces SHOULDN'T get an update. I'm saying they should be updated LESS than the battleaxe/warhammer because they give the prayer benefit, which the others do not.

4) And...?

5) Just because something serves a purpose irl, doesn't mean that's the best way to add it. Take a look at the Ourg Bones update. It's true that real life animals drop corresponding bones (wolf = wolf bones, etc.), but do that with Gen. Graar. and you get a lot of people ranting about it. Think about the game more than real life. A lot of stuff happens in this game that doesn't happen in real life, example being magic and enchanted rings.

6) Sonic said it first, I said it later. Who cares? I still said it. Alright cool, Sonic gets credit for saying it first on this thread. Besides the fact that many people have said it way before this thread even came into existence, that's fine with me. I'm just restating...

7) I'll group this with the last one.

8) It's good for attack and defense, but honestly the spear was used more for defense. I mean just look at it. It lets you hide behind and shield and still get good range at an opponent. You don't charge at the enemy on foot with a spear. You stop their advance with a spear.

9) So you want Jagex to recalculate the spec, recode it, reimplementing it, retest it, and listen to nerf rants all over again? I think that's more trouble than it's worth. Better to leave claws alone imo, or just update the bronze-rune ones. That's the only thing I have against claws. If you're going to update them, just leave dragon alone. Common sense, maybe? But still noteworthy of mention, right?

10) See above on maces again. I said they should be updated, just more than maces.

11) Then why mention it? Halberd is actually used fairly often. It should get a slightly speed boost, but that's it. A small boost in speed would make it able to compete with some rangers at most training spots. No one would use it for PvP. Why take something 2h speed, but like less than scimitar strength?

12) I haven't seen you prove anything with testing either. You've just been making statements as well. If you want me to test some stuff for you, you'd better test it too. You're stilling me that talk is cheap, yet where is your proof? It's all contain in facts anyone could get from the knowledge base or tip.it.

13) So you're going to give f2p and update and not p2p? Interesting idea, giving those who paid 9-10x more nothing, and those who gave almost nothing a huge update. You're f2p, so it's natrual to want updates. But you can't leech of Jagex's time for an update that ONLY f2p will get...

12)

I'm really sick of arguing with you already. About the claws, its jagex's freaking fault for making a severely overpowered special attack. Fine, then go and change you beloved p2p weapons. I don't know about them and I don't care. Since you're p2p, make your own thread about how THOSE weapons should be changed. I wouldn't say anything as its none of my business. Spears being used for defence. In your dreams. What would do more damage, a heavy wooden stick with a sharp knifeblade on top or a short curved sword? Obviously the spear. Nobody is going to use a spear for defending when they can just take two freaking shields and be practically invincible. Seriously.

Its my opinion that f2p weapons are severely unbalanced and I want to change them. So what? I didn't ask you to come and persuade me to change my mind or tell me so-and-so shouldn't be powered up. I'll never change my mind. Period. Especially for this. Forget it if you're trying to make me change my opinion.

YOU brought up 13 points. I'M just answering them. I know you said you didn't want to get into huge arguments, but I'm just replying to what you say.

D claws ARE overpowered. Agreed. Jagex's fault? Agreed. Should they be changed? I think so as well.

You should, however, learn to read a bit more carefully. I never said p2p weapons should be changed, so why should I make my own thread about that? My whole point is that this is fine how it is. Is this none of my business? I've been f2p for 3 out of the 4 years I'm been a RS player, and I'm currently free player and will likely not return to members for a while. So is this my business? As a long time and current free player, it is.

Plus if members stuff isn't your business, why are you making references to spears, claws, and halberds?

Do you even know what defending in war really is? Defending isn't blocking damage, so why would you take 2 shields? What are you going to do? Kick him to death after you block one hit? No. You hide behind the shield, and use the spear so you can hit him, but he can't hit you (advantage is in your longer reach). Plus if they do get to you, you have the shield to block. Honestly, what good would 2 shields do for you? When you are charging into someone, the spear really does no good. You can only stab with it, which is too easily blocked. The only way you'd use a spear for all-out offense is if you're on horseback.

I'm not here to change your opinion. You can have your opinion. On the same note, I can have mine. What is this thread? Is this thread a "support this idea or gtfo" thread? Are you trying to block every person who does not agree with you? Well I have two things to say to that:

1) OMFG learn to read....I said that weapons SHOULD get a change, why do you keep thinking I say they shouldn't?! I feel like I state this every single post, WEAPONS SHOULD BE CHANGED!!!!!!!! On that front, I can be considered a support. I think your idea is good and should be added, just not to the extent you propose, and your ideas has some problems. I'm only trying to point out those problems. Why? You think your idea is 100% perfect? You think it's flawless? You think you're so good that you can't possibly make a mistake? Why even post it then? Obviously, because you posted, you wanted feedback and supporters. Supporters you got, but your idea isn't perfect. I'm trying to point out problems it has. I know that I'm against you in the other thread about mages. That does not mean I'm against EVERY THREAD YOU POST IN. Keep what happens in that thread in that thread.

2) You have neither the authority nor right to bar non-supporters from your thread. Why? You think your idea is so perfect there can't possibly be dissenters? Do you want every single post to be "omfg i love you quelmotz this idea is the best thing in the world!!!! add now!!!!!!!!". Fine. If that's what you want, I can give that to you, and you go tell everybody that quelmotz doesn't want to listen to people who disagree with him. I've told you this before. You can't close your mind to other people's opinions. You have made this thread to try and convince people to support you. If you are not willing to listen to people who don't entirely agree with you, then you have no right to tell others that what you say is the best. In short, if you do not listen to non-supporters, that nullifies your thread as a suggestion and leaves it at nothing more than a pep-rally.

Ok, now let's get a few things straight. I am a supporter. I do not entirely agree. I am only trying to correct some problems that your idea has.

This isn't my thread at all. You say that weapons should get a change, but your arguments prove otherwise. Everything I say about how to change the weapons you have to disagree. Is that what you want to do? Just disagree with everything I say and don't suggest anything? Just go and make your own thread for god's sake. I never said everyone has to agree with me. So what if I hate idiots who disagree with me for no apparent reason or talk crap? (this isn't referring to you)

Don't get influenced by that idiot hihihi27. He says I don't have the right to bar non-supporters from posting. I don't, and I never said I did. I just told the NON-SUPPORTERS WHO POST CRAP and don't give proper reasons or evidence to back up their opinions to get the hell out of my thread. What's the point of having them there? Boost post count? Who cares. Bump my thread? This isn't the RSOF. Waste space? Tip.it is a non-profit organisation and they don't need idiots wasting their precious space. Ok, so I can't control them. At least I tried to get them out. So to get things straight, you agree that I don't have the right to tell idiots to shut up and get lost? If so, I have nothing to say to you.

Ok, let me take a shot at it now.

Rune Dagger: + 25 + 12 - 4 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 24 + 0 Speed: 6

New: + 27 + 12 - 4 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 24 + 0 Speed: 7

Rune Mace: + 20 - 2 + 39 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 36 + 4 Speed: 5

New: + 20 - 2 + 42 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 48 + 0 Speed: 4

Rune Sword: + 38 + 26 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 39 + 0 Speed: 6

New: + 45 + 26 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 40 + 0 Speed: 6

Rune Scimitar: + 7 + 45 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 44 + 0 Speed: 6

New: + 7 + 52 - 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 44 + 0 Speed: 5

Rune Warhammer: - 4 - 4 + 53 - 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 48 + 0 Speed: 4

New: - 4 - 4 + 44 - 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 62 + 0 Speed: 4

Rune Battleaxe: +2 + 48 + 43 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 - 1 + 0 + 64 + 0 Speed: 4

New: +2 + 50 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 - 1 + 0 + 56 + 0 Speed: 4

Rune Sq. Shield: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 6 - 2 + 38 + 40 + 36 + 0 + 38 + 35 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 8 - 2 + 44 + 44 + 36 -1 + 46 + 40 + 0 + 0

Rune Kite Shield: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 8 - 2 + 44 + 48 + 46 - 1 + 46 + 40 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 8 - 2 + 36 + 44 + 44 - 1 + 46 + 40 + 0 + 0

Rune chainbody: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 15 + 0 + 63 + 72 + 78 - 3 + 65 + 40 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 30 - 10 + 65 + 80 + 80 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 0 + 0

Rune platebody: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 30 - 10 + 82 + 80 + 72 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 0 + 0

New: + 0 + 0 + 0 - 30 - 10 + 80 + 80 + 65 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 0 + 0

That's all. Again, I repeat, you don't have to try to tell me to change my opinion. I'll listen to your opinions, ideas, suggestions, whatever, but you don't have to order me to keep an open mind. As I said, I don't need a psychiatrist.

I think I might add some stat changes for the suggestions later. Thanks for giving me the idea! :)

Balancing Weapons and Armor.

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