Hello. One of the most common topics on the RSOF Feedback Forum is about which type of combat class is in need of updating, or is sufficently updated and that another class should be updated, etc etc. Although some of the Rants I have seen are, erm, composed of a minimal intelligent thought process. I created this thread so that we could discuss potential problems with the Combat system and what might possible solutions be. This topic is not limited to merely balancing the combat class; it can be used to address other issues that you believe should be addressed and solved.

 

I'll start off (If you have another issue to address, feel free to ignore this one). I believe that Jagex is created too much of a primarly offensive combat system, while leaving defensive armors and tactics under-represented. Battles are being increasingly decided on the one all-out attack strike that can pierce through armor, with your own safetly irrevelant to whether you win the battle or not. I believe that Jagex should not only balance the classes' by increasing their offensive power, but also their defensive power to their respective strength and weaknesses.

It depends on who you ask. I'm sure a lot of pkers are quite happy with the current system. You get a lot of people who pot up and then click the spec bar twice, hoping that their powerful weapons will deal enough damage in a short period of time to KO the other player. It's not difficult to do, and they can expect to be reasonably rewarded in terms of drops.

 

I agree with you in that defense have greater emphasis as a counterpoint to attack and strength. You shouldn't be able to deal the same amount of damage on a fully armored person as you can on someone who has nothing equipped. However, in my view, it's also important to not fall into a [bleep]-for-tat pattern, where ever more powerful weapons are followed by stronger and stronger armor. The last thing that RS combat needs right now is more ways to 1-hit. This is one of the main reasons I don't mind that the higher level potions cannot be used in PvP. There's no need for AGS, D claws, and D bow specs to hit higher than they already do, unless Jagex wants to completely remove the skill aspect from PvPing. (For the record, I don't PvP at all, but I do play many PvP minigames.)

 

The combat triangle also needs to be rebalanced. At the moment, it's hard to deny that melee has a greater selection of equipment, as well as (generally) dealing more 1v1 damage. Magic's effectiveness suffers from the fact that hand weapons can easily be wielded in conjunction with dragonhide, while range is burdened with a lot of useless weapons that are rarely used (darts, javelins, longbows, etc).

 

If you consider F2P combat, it's obvious that melee is an even greater advantage. While magic is capped at 16 damage, meleers can easily hit in the high 20s. Range is weak as well, since you the best equipment you can use is maple shortbow + addy arrows. Jagex could open up more crossbows and bolts, as well as possibly making blood spells + ensnare F2P.

I have two main problems with the RS combat system. These are the fundamental problems i see, which cannot be fixed without a complete revamp to the current combat levels.

 

Firstly, is the inequality between range/mage and melee in terms of combat levels. Maxed rangers/mages have a significantly lower combat level to maxed meleers. This firstly makes it impossible to balance the other combat styles with melee - if 99 range is equivalent to 99 att/str, it becomes much more powerful for its combat level, if 99 str remains in its current state, a ranger/mage can never become as powerful as a maxed meleer.

 

The second problem i see is the lack of 'proper' defense gear in runescape. I played a tank on WoW for a while, and there gearing system is radically different - "Defensive" gear offers two main types of bonuses:

Avoidance - Reduces your chance of being hit at all, which is what rs gear gives, and

Effective Health - Which increases the maximum amount of raw damage which you can withstand before dying. This occurs through armour, which reduces physical damage taken by a fixed amount, and stamina, which increases your maximum health.

 

It is important to note that amongst most players, Effective Health was valued higher than Avoidance for almost all situations. However, in RS, very little of this gear appears, aside from two consumables to raise your max health, and a shield which costs hundreds of millions. This simplest option would be for armour to reduce damage taken by a fixed percentage, which would allow for stronger weapons to be introduced.

I'm a F2Per, and here are my observations of the current F2P combat triangle. Keep in mind this is just what I notice and might not be that accurate.

 

-Melee: The dominant type. It has powerful weapons that can hit into the 20s frequently. The rune scimitar is a speedy weapon which has good power, the rune two-hander is a deadly KO weapon, and other weapons, such as the rune longsword and the rune battleaxe, are very effective weapons as well. They also have full rune, with very high defensive stats. It's good enough right now, but maybe rune boots should be given to complete the rune set.

 

-Range: The speedy type. The best, and only weapon for them is the maple shortbow, and combined with adamant arrows, they can hit at a maximum of 18. If used right, range can be great against many. They could do with yew shortbow + rune arrows, but I'm not so sure yet. I don't care if they do get it though, it gives F2P range a level 40 weapon.

 

-Magic: Unfortunately the worst of the three. The staffs they use are slow, and Fire Blast can only hit a max of 16. It also has a chance to fail as well. Their best armor is Runecrafter Robes, and one must play the Great Orb Project to get those robes. Even then, the armor is weak and mages are easily killed. I say they can have the wave spells, snare, and stun/enfeeble/vulnerability.

 

I also noticed that offensive play is favored. This is due to the types of armor each side of the combat triangle gets, and that the weapons in each side of the triangle has superior weapons over armor. I think this is the reason why pures and hybrids were created.

I agree that the combat strategies should be looked at. In fact I have made reference to this in another thread (How Easy do You Want it?). There is very little in the way of defensive skills. I would like to see more weight given to different skills in cb, for example, those with high agility being able to dodge more blows etc. It would give much more variety to combat overall and enable players to consider more thought out and intellent strategies for battle. I have no doubt that the fight arena would find many players then practicing cb skills on a regular basis. \:D/

It depends on who you ask. I'm sure a lot of pkers are quite happy with the current system. You get a lot of people who pot up and then click the spec bar twice, hoping that their powerful weapons will deal enough damage in a short period of time to KO the other player. It's not difficult to do, and they can expect to be reasonably rewarded in terms of drops.

 

The question was whether Jagex should rebalance the Combat System, not whether players are content with it or not. Obviously, those who greatly benefit from the system will be content with it.

 

 

 

I agree with you in that defense have greater emphasis as a counterpoint to attack and strength. You shouldn't be able to deal the same amount of damage on a fully armored person as you can on someone who has nothing equipped. However, in my view, it's also important to not fall into a [bleep]-for-tat pattern, where ever more powerful weapons are followed by stronger and stronger armor. The last thing that RS combat needs right now is more ways to 1-hit. This is one of the main reasons I don't mind that the higher level potions cannot be used in PvP. There's no need for AGS, D claws, and D bow specs to hit higher than they already do, unless Jagex wants to completely remove the skill aspect from PvPing. (For the record, I don't PvP at all, but I do play many PvP minigames.)

 

Excellent point. We should avoid an arms race between the defensive skills and offensive skills, just as we should not have had an arms race between the combat skills. By no means should Defensive equipment overpower its offensive counterparts, but defense should still be balanced to at least provide a protection representative of its contribution to your combat level.

 

 

 

The combat triangle also needs to be rebalanced. At the moment, it's hard to deny that melee has a greater selection of equipment, as well as (generally) dealing more 1v1 damage. Magic's effectiveness suffers from the fact that hand weapons can easily be wielded in conjunction with dragonhide, while range is burdened with a lot of useless weapons that are rarely used (darts, javelins, longbows, etc).

 

It's not really relevant that Range has useless weapons; as long as it has sufficently accessible balanced weapons, then Range can still be competitive with Melee. Another problem with Magic is that there isn't really any uses to the staffs other than a select few (Ancient Staff). All you gain is a slight Magic bonus that already comes from your "armour", a slot and a few GP saved, and the ability to auto-cast (and even that no longer requires a staff). The only benefit Mysticstaves and Battlestaves give is additional Melee Attack, and requires Melee to wield! Compared to regular staves, Ahirm's Staff gives a +5 Magic bonus and a decent attack stat. Magic weapons should give a visible Magic benefit.

 

And yes, another problem with Magic is that the other two sides of the combat triangle can both deploy protection against its attacks. That needs to be amended.

 

 

 

If you consider F2P combat, it's obvious that melee is an even greater advantage. While magic is capped at 16 damage, meleers can easily hit in the high 20s. Range is weak as well, since you the best equipment you can use is maple shortbow + addy arrows. Jagex could open up more crossbows and bolts, as well as possibly making blood spells + ensnare F2P.

 

I like the idea of introducing Crossbows to F2p. Not only does it provide a new variety of range weapons for F2P (at the moment, your choices are Shortbow or Longbow) but it provides rangers a more powerful option at the cost of their fast hits. Range would still probably not be effective against Melee armor, but Range was designed not to be in the first place. Perhaps a true strengthening for Range would also to be to also increase the potential of Magic, which Range is designed to be strong agaisnt.

 

I fully support introducing Snare into the F2P Magic book. It would be a much need strengthening of Magic and would make the use of a binding spell far more practical. Introducing Entangle is debatable, but I believe the spell has high enough requirements for its potential usefulness. Not to mention it would become an incentive to train Magic to the higher levels.

 

As to introducing the Wave spells; while it would be a benefit for F2p Magics (and would fill the Spell Book up to Teleblock and Entangle), would simply increasing the max hit of F2P Magic by four really make Magic competitive in F2p? Range can hit almost the same amount of damage nearly twice as fast, while melee can easily hit 30s at the same speed. I believe more drastic changes than introducing the Wave spells would be required to make magic competitive in F2p.

 

 

I have two main problems with the RS combat system. These are the fundamental problems i see, which cannot be fixed without a complete revamp to the current combat levels.

 

Firstly, is the inequality between range/mage and melee in terms of combat levels. Maxed rangers/mages have a significantly lower combat level to maxed meleers. This firstly makes it impossible to balance the other combat styles with melee - if 99 range is equivalent to 99 att/str, it becomes much more powerful for its combat level, if 99 str remains in its current state, a ranger/mage can never become as powerful as a maxed meleer.

 

 

The misrepresentation of Range and Magic in the Combat Formula is a significant problem, and is most likely because Melee is composed of two skills, not one. Range and Magic might be harder to train, but still does not account for twice the expirience required for Melee over Range and Magic. How can Jagex increase the power of Range and Magic if it is not properly represented in the Combat Formula?

Seeing as most PKers, do make use of at least 2 combat stats, alot of the time 3, all of them are useful.

 

Not all of them are balanced though.

People view the aspects of the game differently then others. F2P and P2P Clanners will say they want Defence thoroughly increased in power, or Attack and Strength decreased. PKers are probably thrilled with how it is now, and in my opinion the Combat Triangle is fit perfectly for them.

 

I disagree with the topic title, Jagex IS making a serious attempt, you just view it differently than a Clanner, or a PKer, or a PvM Addict would. Different needs means different wants as well.

F2p mage is underpowered. They added fog and RC robes. I'm happy with that attempt. In p2p you can freeze so that's a distinct advantage over melee but melee and range do hit a lot harder. I think they overpower stuff to balance things out which is bad. They should fix it but do it in an appropriate manner.

F2p mage is underpowered. They added fog and RC robes. I'm happy with that attempt. In p2p you can freeze so that's a distinct advantage over melee but melee and range do hit a lot harder. I think they overpower stuff to balance things out which is bad. They should fix it but do it in an appropriate manner.

ZGS Freezes for melee, and u get stunning bolts from ranged.

Melee has to much attention. How about GodSwords for Range and Mage? The Hand Cannon is an epic fail, considering it'll blow up in your face, costing you more inv spaces if you want to use more, and Mage doesn't even have something like THAT.

How about tying attack into the mage combat calculations (since attack is all about accuracy) and strength into the range combat calculations (since the stronger you are more you can pull). Then again, by that logic, attack should go with range as well.

 

The reality of it is Jagex loves melee. That's not going to change.

How about tying attack into the mage combat calculations (since attack is all about accuracy) and strength into the range combat calculations (since the stronger you are more you can pull). Then again, by that logic, attack should go with range as well.

 

My first thoughts are that is a really good idea. The obvious benefit is that it makes all the combat "classes" (I use this in the loosest of terms, being that there is no real class system in Runescape) directly based off of two seperate combat skills. This means that each combat skill would be equally represented in the combat triangle, and would thus provide the grounds to expand the role of Magic and Range. in the For Magic, not only does it provide an excuse for the attack requirements of staves, but provides a distinct seperation between those who use magic solely for non-combat (in which case they would have a low Attack level) and those who use magic for combat. A problem that could arise is that Attack and Strength would be over-represented in the combat triangle, but I don't really see why that is a disadvantage. And don't worry about realistic logic in a fantasy game too much. Why doesn't Strength make me cut wood faster, for example. ;)

 

 

 

The reality of it is Jagex loves melee. That's not going to change.

 

Not to be a complete idealist, but since we're in a debate thread rather than stating pessemistic (but probably true) facts, that's somewhat irrevelant. If that's a bad thing, then Jagex shouldn't love Melee. Simple as that.

F2p mage is underpowered. They added fog and RC robes. I'm happy with that attempt. In p2p you can freeze so that's a distinct advantage over melee but melee and range do hit a lot harder. I think they overpower stuff to balance things out which is bad. They should fix it but do it in an appropriate manner.

ZGS Freezes for melee, and u get stunning bolts from ranged.

 

ZGS is cheap?. :|