All I'm saying is:

Just because it wasn't a close outcome does not guarantee lies did not alter the final outcome; especially when you consider the extent of the lies within the No campaign.

 

We have no way of knowing how much the lies altered the results, anywhere between 0% and 70% of the No voters could have been swayed by the lies.

Saying there are always lies is no argument. Considering it was a yes or a no vote, the fact that they lied could have had a dramatic impact. As I have said, from my experience with people I know, not one knew the real facts. That is a pretty large impact if you ask me. That may not represent the whole country, but it gives me a good indication that the lies were advertised well enough to have an impact which could have heavily influenced the outcome.

Put simply: people just didn't want change.

 

that is wrong, from the result we can say people didn't want AV

 

but i know several who voted no because they thought that doing so would mean it would be more likely that a more radical reform, such as PR could enter the debate

 

using the result of a referendum between 2 bad systems to lock out any talk of all other options is not the way forward

Put simply: people just didn't want change.

 

that is wrong, from the result we can say people didn't want AV

 

but i know several who voted no because they thought that doing so would mean it would be more likely that a more radical reform, such as PR could enter the debate

 

using the result of a referendum between 2 bad systems to lock out any talk of all other options is not the way forward

OK, I'll accept that. I worded it ambiguously.

 

I'm just not going to sit here and listen to people basically alleging that 40% of those who voted were idiots, believed any old nonsense shoved in front of their noses and were subsequently incapable of researching anything for themselves before definitively casting their vote. You're making it sound as if No campaigners barricaded the stations and walked people into the voting booth. Of course the reality is the majority of the electorate couldn't be bothered voting either way and couldn't have been more oblivious to electoral reform had the referendum not even taken place last Thursday.

 

Not much the evil No campaign can do to people who simply didn't care in the first place.

I still fail to see any relevance of low turn out to the outcome.

Sure low turn out means a large portion of the population didn't care either way; but that is totally irrelevant to the issue of outcome and the effect lies may of had upon it.

Because the No campaign hasn't got any responsiblity for those people who didn't vote, yet you guys seem happy to blame them for the referendum's defeat.

Wtf? That the most illogical conclusion ever.

All we are saying is that a fair chunk of the people who VOTED NO only did so because of the mis-information created by the no campaigns lies and that it is not outside the realms of possibility that if correctly informed the vote would of gone the other way, or atleast been a closer outcome.

 

We said nothing about people who did not vote.

You don't seem to understand that many things the No campaign said were lies. They were not put forward as opinion, they were put forward to the population as facts. That is how they cheated the population. Until you understand that there is no point discussing the matter with you. In any other situation, if one side campaigned with admitted lies, there would be massive criticism and maybe even legal action. Yet here, there is none. How you do not find that wrong is beyond me.

Putting forward opinion of truth is one of many persuasive methods, and this is GCSE standard English that I'm referring to here. You seem to regard the British electorate as entirely stupid and unable to make decisions for themselves. For some this may be true, but I would think (hope) that a majority can decide what they want. Campaigns will sway their view somewhat, but they are not idiots who will be entirely brainwashed.

 

Politicians lie. They don't always tell the whole truth. Live with it.