December 28, 200619 yr My point being its all good being moralistic but real life situations are another matter. thats right, you cant help people that dont want to be helped. In other words, you cant force your morals on others. I don't know if you meant it that way, but are you implying that forcing morals on others helps them? Wouldn't it make sense to imply that? If I think my set of morality is correct, then I think that it would help you had to follow them. If I didn't think my views on morality were helpful, why would I even follow them? A person might believe it's immoral to, let's say, tie your shoes in public, for example. Now some people might agree. But if I completely disagree, I'm not being helped if I was tying my shoes and someone interrupted me and started preaching to me about how it was wrong and offensive to people around me. Just because one person believes their morals are right doesn't mean they're helping people if they're trying to force them upon people who disagree with their morals. Morals depend on the individual person. No matter how much someone believes something is wrong, if I believe it's right, that's my own set of morals. And I'm not being helped if someone tries to 'fix' me because they believe their morals are right and mine are wrong.
December 28, 200619 yr A person might believe it's immoral to, let's say, tie your shoes in public, for example. Now some people might agree. But if I completely disagree, I'm not being helped if I was tying my shoes and someone interrupted me and started preaching to me about how it was wrong and offensive to people around me. Just because one person believes their morals are right doesn't mean they're helping people if they're trying to force them upon people who disagree with their morals. Morals depend on the individual person. No matter how much someone believes something is wrong, if I believe it's right, that's my own set of morals. And I'm not being helped if someone tries to 'fix' me because they believe their morals are right and mine are wrong. If I believe my morals are right, then I think it would be helpful. You might not think it's helpful because you disagree with my morals - but I do since they are my morals. Let's say you think cussing is wrong but I don't. Would YOU think it's helpful if I didn't cuss even though I wouldn't? Of course you would! If you didn't, then you'd have to ask yourself why you think it's wrong. I'm not saying that I should force my morals on other people, I'm saying that everyone would naturally assume their morals are the best, otherwise, why would they even believe them instead of a different set? It wouldn't make sense to think your morals aren't the best and most helpful because then you would choose which ones are the best and most helpful. You crampin' my style.
December 28, 200619 yr A person might believe it's immoral to, let's say, tie your shoes in public, for example. Now some people might agree. But if I completely disagree, I'm not being helped if I was tying my shoes and someone interrupted me and started preaching to me about how it was wrong and offensive to people around me. Just because one person believes their morals are right doesn't mean they're helping people if they're trying to force them upon people who disagree with their morals. Morals depend on the individual person. No matter how much someone believes something is wrong, if I believe it's right, that's my own set of morals. And I'm not being helped if someone tries to 'fix' me because they believe their morals are right and mine are wrong. If I believe my morals are right, then I think it would be helpful. You might not think it's helpful because you disagree with my morals - but I do since they are my morals. Let's say you think cussing is wrong but I don't. Would YOU think it's helpful if I didn't cuss even though I wouldn't? Of course you would! If you didn't, then you'd have to ask yourself why you think it's wrong. I'm not saying that I should force my morals on other people, I'm saying that everyone would naturally assume their morals are the best, otherwise, why would they even believe them instead of a different set? It wouldn't make sense to think your morals aren't the best and most helpful because then you would choose which ones are the best and most helpful. Yes, I agree that everyone thinks their own morals are the best possible set of morals to have. I just don't think that even if someone believes their morals are the best, they should 'help others' by trying to have them take on those additional morals. Teaching is one thing if they want to learn, but we both agree no morals should ever be forced upon anyone.
December 28, 200619 yr Yes, I agree that everyone thinks their own morals are the best possible set of morals to have. I just don't think that even if someone believes their morals are the best, they should 'help others' by trying to have them take on those additional morals. Teaching is one thing if they want to learn, but we both agree no morals should ever be forced upon anyone. 1. The question was not whether or not we SHOULD force our morals on other people, it is whether or not we personally think that our morals would help other people. And the answer is an obvious yes. 2. I never said morals should never be forced on anyone. I said "I never said that..." meaning I'm not giving me opinion on that subject. I don't think it would be safe for you to say we shouldn't ever force our morals on other people, because not everyone thinks murder is wrong. You crampin' my style.
December 28, 200619 yr My point being its all good being moralistic but real life situations are another matter. thats right, you cant help people that dont want to be helped. In other words, you cant force your morals on others. I don't know if you meant it that way, but are you implying that forcing morals on others helps them? By telling me it's wrong to force my morals on someone, you're forcing your morals on me.
December 28, 200619 yr Yes, I agree that everyone thinks their own morals are the best possible set of morals to have. I just don't think that even if someone believes their morals are the best, they should 'help others' by trying to have them take on those additional morals. Teaching is one thing if they want to learn, but we both agree no morals should ever be forced upon anyone. 1. The question was not whether or not we SHOULD force our morals on other people, it is whether or not we personally think that our morals would help other people. And the answer is an obvious yes. 2. I never said morals should never be forced on anyone. I said "I never said that..." meaning I'm not giving me opinion on that subject. I don't think it would be safe for you to say we shouldn't ever force our morals on other people, because not everyone thinks murder is wrong. 1. Yes, everyone would think that. But again, so what? I just don't get where you're going with the idea that everyone believes their morals are right. 2. In an ideal world we shouldn't have to force morals upon each other. If everyone's mind worked normally we wouldn't need to is what I mean. But some people who have abnormal judgment just need society or the law to force morals on them. But the law can't have exceptions, so a wide blanket of morals a government deems right is swept over everyone, just because the minority can't be trusted to form their own set of normal normals.
December 28, 200619 yr Author I don't know if you meant it that way, but are you implying that forcing morals on others helps them? no, i wanst implying that. And you should never shove your set of morals onto someone else and assume they will think the same way, it shows a total lack of empathy and care. we personally think that our morals would help other people. again, a lack of empathy. Obviously everyone has a capacity to think for themselves. If you define your own set of morals, its for you to live by, not everyone else.
December 28, 200619 yr By telling me it's wrong to force my morals on someone, you're forcing your morals on me. If he could actually stop you from doing it, then it'd be forcing. Otherwise it's just a disagreement. That being said, our societies require forcing the morals of the greater whole on the minorities, and do so on a regular basis. -This message was deviously brought to you by:
December 28, 200619 yr By telling me it's wrong to force my morals on someone, you're forcing your morals on me. If he could actually stop you from doing it, then it'd be forcing. Otherwise it's just a disagreement. That being said, our societies require forcing the morals of the greater whole on the minorities, and do so on a regular basis. ireallywanttorespondtothis...butmyspacekeyisbroken.
December 28, 200619 yr Author Results Your Moralising Quotient is: 0.58. Your Interference Factor is: 1.00. Your Universalising Factor is: 0.00. i'd have to say (no offence) its a pretty unrealistic morality test.
December 28, 200619 yr By telling me it's wrong to force my morals on someone, you're forcing your morals on me. If he could actually stop you from doing it, then it'd be forcing. Otherwise it's just a disagreement. I would say that even if he couldn't stop me from doing it, he's still trying to force his morals on me. That being said, our societies require forcing the morals of the greater whole on the minorities, and do so on a regular basis. Agreed. Like forcing "do not kill" on lunatic murderers who think their actions are justified.
December 28, 200619 yr 1. Yes, everyone would think that. But again, so what? I just don't get where you're going with the idea that everyone believes their morals are right. You said: I don't know if you meant it that way, but are you implying that forcing morals on others helps them? So I was telling why the answer to that question is an obvious yes. Everyone would naturally think that their morals are the best, and therefore, forcing their morals on other people would be helpful. That doesn't mean everyone thinks they should do that, but the answer to your question is yes. If you don't know "where I'm going" when I'm simply answering your question, then I can't help you. 2. In an ideal world we shouldn't have to force morals upon each other. If everyone's mind worked normally we wouldn't need to is what I mean. But some people who have abnormal judgment just need society or the law to force morals on them. But the law can't have exceptions, so a wide blanket of morals a government deems right is swept over everyone, just because the minority can't be trusted to form their own set of normal normals. Agreed. In an ideal world, everyone would have the same view of morality. However, what you just said emphasizes my point. We have to force some morality on people, and denying that we do would be ridiculous. You crampin' my style.
December 28, 200619 yr By telling me it's wrong to force my morals on someone, you're forcing your morals on me. Exactly, some people like to preach and some find it repulsive; Either way, it is a matter of opinion.
December 30, 200619 yr there are definitive correct morals that are common to almost every culture. one of these being not to murder or steel. these I would consider to be right as to live in a world where these things are acceptable would breed anarchy and distruction. fourther more we can all agree that doing harm twoards others without just cause is imoral. the problem emerges when we try to define just cause which is spacific to each culture. in one culture just cause may be to prevent harm to others i.e. stoping some one whose on a killing spree, and in anouther stoneing some one for adultery. so morality is culturely spacific to a point but almost all cultures share some common ground. some are better than others of course, but I will leave it to you to decide what set of morals are too your likeing. forceing your set of morals apon others does not usely work and should not be done except under extreem circumstances. but what I can say is that a society needs a established set of morals for it to function properly. take away all morality and it will crumble without a state of absolute fear of the law. this fear is rarely universal however leaveing the ones on top as corrupt and crule as they so chose unless there is a moral code by which they must adhear too. (would you like to live in a tyranical police state just becouse it was decided that morality is not needed?) once a society has no morality it will inevidably destroy itself. Clan Moderator from December 15th 2006- August 20th 2007Founder of: Terran Gamers, formerly known as Militos Deci
December 30, 200619 yr there are definitive correct morals that are common to almost every culture. one of these being not to murder or steel. these I would consider to be right as to live in a world where these things are acceptable would breed anarchy and distruction. fourther more we can all agree that doing harm twoards others without just cause is imoral. the problem emerges when we try to define just cause which is spacific to each culture. in one culture just cause may be to prevent harm to others i.e. stoping some one whose on a killing spree, and in anouther stoneing some one for adultery. so morality is culturely spacific to a point but almost all cultures share some common ground. some are better than others of course, but I will leave it to you to decide what set of morals are too your likeing. forceing your set of morals apon others does not usely work and should not be done except under extreem circumstances. but what I can say is that a society needs a established set of morals for it to function properly. take away all morality and it will crumble without a state of absolute fear of the law. this fear is rarely universal however leaveing the ones on top as corrupt and crule as they so chose unless there is a moral code by which they must adhear too. (would you like to live in a tyranical police state just becouse it was decided that morality is not needed?) once a society has no morality it will inevidably destroy itself. Cultural relativism. It's a smaller branch of ethics but has been rapidly growing in those who adopt it as we've globalized more. You crampin' my style.
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