compfreak847
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Posts posted by compfreak847
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He was obviously referring to where I showed a cannon is worth using at Bloodvelds. I had also shown earlier in the thread for Aberrant Spectres but I do not know what the end result was. Even so, I believe that number was basesd upon Qeltar's numbers, who is incredicbly inefficient.
I was extremely interested in this whole discussion until I read this. You seriously slay spectres with Karil's and a unicorn? Seriously? There is a very good reason why you are not getting very good Slayer rates, and this quote sums it up nicely.
. . . REALLY? Karil's?! UNICORN?! No cannon, I presume? It takes me 20 minutes to do a spectres task. How long does it take you, an hour? Two? Read Zarfot's guide. I think you'd really benefit.
Which part of that refers to bloodvields? I'm sort of curious, as apparently I missed the part where he switch from spectres to bloodvields.
1. Experience loss was not a factor as I recall. While the damage from a cannon resulted in less experience, due to its speed you were getting more experience overall per hour.
2. The only task I can think of where this could happen is Aberrant Spectres, and that doesn't even happen all the time. Fire giants are in the small room in the Waterfall (7 of them), Bloodvelds all die within a few squares of the cannon. Dagannoths can be killed from far out, but nearly all are killed within a small radius of the cannon (about 7 or so steps), but that is almost irrelevant as you can be almost guaranteed there will be a Dagannoth to hit on the way to the drop. Scabarites has a more open sort of area and a bigger spread of where the NPCs are, but there is always a Scabarite close enough to kill to where the drops are. Finally Suqahs, about 90-95% of them die within 2 steps of the cannon. The cannon will ocassionally kill one quite far away. However, since Suqahs generally do not even have that good of drops (including charms that only drop about 3% of the time for each colour), I never run over to see what it is let alone pick it up. So #2 is not an issue.
3. Essentially the same reasoning as above. Aberrant Spectres being the only task that this might be a problem on. Generally the distance to the next one is not that far, and since the rate with a cannon is just under 45k Slayer experience per hour with a cannon, I believe we can assume that it is negligible.
4. What does not using a cannon on other tasks have to do with speed? Reading what is in the brackets infers you meant not other tasks, but simply the banking time. However, there is no loss in speed for simply carrying a cannon nor banking one. When I get to the bank I hit the bank all button. So there is no loss for banking, no loss for getting a new task (NPC Contact), nor running to the next one.
5. Cost is a factor, correct.
6. Not true (for me anyway). On every task where I use a cannon I would already be using prayer, or in the case of Dagannoths and Fire Giants, no (protect) prayer is used anyway. So that being the case, using a cannon saves money on supplies, not the reverse.
7. Spawn time issues are essentially irrelevant. Just because you have to wait for spawns (only task I can think of is Kalphites, which I cancel anyway) does not make a cannon not worth it. You are killing the Kalphites much faster and overall getting a much faster experience rate.
Two things: #1, yes, I was indeed talking about specters. See above. #2, I'm not saying that any of these are what makes it better or worse - I'm saying you have to consider them instead of going LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINUTES AND U DO THEM IN 2 HOURS LOLZ HURR HURR UR AN IDIOT LEARN TO SLAY HURR HURR. Not that I'm referring to anyone in particular, of course.
Now this is where I have to disagree. You are utilising inefficient methods for Slayer and resulting in a much lower rate of experience. How can you really say you being efficient if you utilise inefficient methods? Your speeds at the Abyss are irrelevant. They have no bearing on how you perform on Slayer.
Hypothetically, lets say you are right and that a cannon was not worth using at 400k (in no way am I implying you are correct, I still know you are not), it was apparently accordig to you, only out by a little bit. Are you trying to say that you cannot make over 400k per hour? I have seen you in Help and Advice forum saying you can get 825k at Aviansies. That means for you, to not be using a cannon is inefficient. So no, you are not "highly" efficient as you would claim.
OK, I'm not understanding what your trying to say. Please explain further. My question is, are you referring to my methods (Using a cannon, equipments\invos etc., all not specific to a person and easy to chane) or my actual skills (Mousing speed, reaction time, coordination, specific to a person and impossible to change)? I thought you were referring to my physical computer usage skills with jabs about reaction time, and my response to abyssal and other timings were directed as such. Methods are something that can be changed and must be proven.
[I was pointing out that a 10% difference at Armoured Zombies is to big just to be a factor of the randomness of hits. 10 minutes is not too short for a test. It gets you a very reasonable approximation of the hourly rate. This holds true for that "complex" NPC you mentioned as I have tested that for just under 10 minutes and got within 1.5k slayer experience difference from the average rate in the table I posted. That is more than acceptable considering it is an average after all. Nor would I ever suggest to kill Kree for 5 minutes and determine a kill rate. I would suggest at least half an hour for a test in that respect. Do not misunderstand me, I know longer tests and more tests provide more accurate results. The whole idea of doing it for shorter times is to get a reasonable approximation, which is what it accomplishes.
And I'm pointing out that it is a factor of the randomness of hits. There are simply no other variables that can be simplified further. Remember, this isn't as if I tested two hours and measured the difference between them; I tested dozens of hours, and the difference between the maximum and minimum was 10%. But slayer is much more complex; instead of clicking a couple of times every 3 minutes, your required to attack each and every monster, pick up drops from far away and (on some tasks) use a cannon. Armored zombies was simply my way of showing that even with all possible chance of human error removed, there is still significant randomness from the combat system itself. See other, much longer threads where I go into details on the hit spread calculator; suffice to say, it is not simply a random number.
I have been through this thread the whole time, so yes I have read all of your posts (many of them multiple times when referencing them and such). That is how I know as a fact you have never given your rates for each task (experience and profit). This is furthur evidenced when you just posted how you killed Aberrant Spectres. Not I or anyone else knew you being that inefficent by not utilising the cannon. The reason why we did not know is because you have never posted that before. This is a fact. Considering I believe that would fall under "details" that should have been in the thread earlier. You are also now tyring to say banking times were "hammered out" earlier in the thread. Tell me the post number of where this is, or at the very least a page number of where the final rate for banking is. Anything less and it only goes to show that is also not in the thread. Considering if it was, you would not be constantly going on about what mine are (as you always believe you are correct, so therefore yours must be, and anything I give would have to be incorrect, right?).
Look, all rates were required to obtain slayer results. We didn't spend 40 pages talking about nothing; all rates for all tasks are in there. That chart was at the beginning; you and I went through each task until we found a number we both (at the time) believed to be correct based on testing.
And your misunderstanding me on the numbers. As I said earlier, if two players with equal stats and methods slay at the same rate over a long period of time, they are going to obtain very close to the same results. Therefore, one of us is either lying outright, something that I would believe to be impossible at this range of the thread (If you or I was simply making up numbers, it should have come out before this or one of us would have given up), or somehow our methods are not matching up.
Err... "stuipd" isn't a typo? Which you have now done 2 posts in a row. Unless I have forgotten how to spell that word recently or that is a typo.
Can you understand what the word is supposed to be? Again, ti's dyslexia (yes, that's another common typo of mine, but one that I usually catch before posting) swapping the "i" and "p". But it certainly doesn't obfuscate the meaning of the word.
Please do not try and say your posts made sense in the context of my post. Everything you have posted with regards to the Zamorak Brew does nothing but indicate otherwise. You have over and over misunderstood everything that was presented. Unlike you, I do not always believe it falls into the category of composers or responders fault. It is capable of being either as well as both simultaneously. I am talking about in this specific case, it is the responders fault. How could you (or anyone for that matter) interpret "An example is Aberrant Spectres. With protect from Magic on, you take no damage." this any other way than that I use a Protection Prayer and take no damage? Explain that to me. You specifcally stated you had no idea I used it, and every post on this matter has stated that I was using a protection prayer and in one case inferred that I was. Explain that to me then.
What do you mean the keyword "if"? I think you are referring to where I posted this "If I am not taking damage due to a protection prayer" But I am not 100% sure. That was taken from my original response to what potions I used. So I don't see what bearing the word "if" has to try and prove your point.
Who's to say you were not simply using it as an example? I could say that at Avansies I take no damage with protect from range, but it doesn't mean that's the method I used. Additionally, cannon was proven to be inefficient at Specters earlier in the thread, and I was assuming you were trying to remain as efficient as possible.
Again... I have always stated what methods I use to do each task. Hell, that is pretty much apparent when I tell what my outfit is for that task. What were you expecting? When I said I wear Karils and a Saradomin Sword to Waterfiends, do you think my method is use the sword or to use Ice Barrage on them? The equipment used, potions/prayers used and whether or not I cannon gives all the information needed to know what method I use. If you can honestly not work it out from that information, it falls back to above section on being idiotic. All that information was given (again) on page 68.
As shown above, quite frequently playing detective and trying to reverse-engineer your methods from your outfit yields the incorrect interpretation - the reason methods should be outlined as well.
Another question, how logn does the task take you to complete on average? Also from that, what is your average Slayer experience per hour rate? (You know, because you have never given us this rate)
Approx. 78k melee XP\h, not including 2.2 minute banking time, or an extra bank in the middle for an invo of rannars, meaning around 45 minutes per task and 19.5k slayer XP\h during testing. Informally, using aim, my rate drops to approx. 56k XP\h from distractions and waiting for one drop before attacking to reduce hassle.
I've got better ones. Define "Sucks". Define "Best". Hell, even determine "efficient".
In the context of this thread:
Sucks: Inferior to one or more other methods
Best: Superior to all other methods
[Most] Efficient: A method that results in the lowest possible overall time to complete a tasked based on money spent and overall XP gained.
When I said reasonably close, it was because the rates I was getting from the test was within a few thousand experience to what the average rate in my table is. Once I have gotten videos for each task (or most at least because some may take longer before I receive), I will upload them so that you can see. I won't do it today though. I swap over to my adsl2+ internet tomorrow and download and upload speed will increase significantly. So I will do it any time after then.
Don't bother posting videos. Editing and cropping mean the results from them appear to be whatever the poster wants them to be. I could post a video of me hitting nothing but 45s with a whip on abyssal demons, but it doesn't really prove anything.
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I don't see what the problem is. The normal trade limit would still apply. I guess a high magic requirement would be a good idea. Maybe it could have a stricter trade limit like 5000 every hour instead of 60k every 15 minutes. Don't just say it's a bad idea. I know it COULD work. Constructive criticism is always welcome.
How the hell does that even relate to my post? Here's the situation: I'm at Bandos. I can kill him in under 2 minutes, so with his fairly common high-value drops I would be making a massive (10m+ an hour) profit. However, that's balanced because I have to obtain 40 KC every time I run out of food (every 3 or so kills). Now, if I bring 500k cash, I can trade my friend for sharks every time I run low and camp there for hours, earning hundreds of millions at a rate of over 5 times what was previously obtained. What part of "increasing the speed GP is obtained by high level players by 500%" doesn't involve unbalancing the game?
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You really believe that the current system cant be improved upon at all? I think thats pretty poor to be honest, granted its easy for me to type a couple lines and call it a solution when it has gaping holes but surely it can be changed to the extent that once in a while it can work to someones advantage without massive changes.
Not without it counterbalancing by working against another person.
And as I see it JaGex did become become the second largest online game corporation in the world by failing to think things through at times, they've done it several ocassions and often corrected them at later dates.
Name a single instance where they thought something through, changed it, and later changed it again without a single ounce of feedback or additional info. Any update that a single person complained about or pointed out a single issue doesn't count, as that's extra info. For a set of given information there isn't a single case where they failed to think things through.
I see what your saying about it making a complicated system but i think its one people who really cared what items they kept would get use to, If you didnt want to take time to use it you wouldn't have to.
I don't see how increasing overall value lost as well as unbalancing the economy and cost\reward balance of every monster is going to benefit ANYONE.
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Updates are good.
Therefore, fewer updates are bad. Yet you are saying that fewer updates are not bad. Do you enjoy updates or not? If you enjoy them, lesser enjoyment due to fewer updates is a "bad" thing; if you don't enjoy them, greater enjoyment due to fewer updates is a "good" thing. It's really quite simple; I don't see why your not seeing what I'm trying to say.
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Quite honestly, I hope they are convicted.
They've been convicted. And you usually make such informed posts...
I know that; even if I had just read the title, I would have picked up on that :lol: I'll make it clearer: by "convicted", I meant convicted after the entire case, appeals and all, is finished and the 4 of them are sitting in jail contemplating how they are going to scrape together $4.5m. Now yes, I am aware that they will probably manage to get out of prison and only pay a fraction of the fine, but I'm using it to make a point.
I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal of this, its just a splash in the ocean against file sharing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent
Seriously though, they didn't go anything illegal.Sorry, but that's up for the judges to decide; they are the ones elected to determine where the line is drawn.
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I like updates.I don't care
It's exclusive. If you like updates, reducing them is a bad thing and increasing them is a good thing. (Bad that the RSOF is opened) If you don't like updates, reducing them is a good thing and increasing them is a bad thing. (Good that the RSOF is opened). Since 'all updates' includes both good and bad, it boils down to "would you like updates to be released every day at the same quality that they currently are, or would you like updates to never be released again". It's a black and white situation, you can't both want fewer updates and want more.
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CRAPCRAPCRAPCRAPCRAP
*Gears up in anti-flame gear for the flood of noobs that will undoubtedly follow*
I'm going to have a very busy next few months letting new players know that stupid, poorly thought out, spammy\flamey post aren't going to slip by me in rants. Beware all who read this, if ye shall post a post in ye olde rants forum that differs from my opinion in any way prepare to have a fight to the death ending with either me or both of us providing a massive amount of facts and sources to prove the other wrong. Don't make stupid posts that you can't back up or your gonna be called out on it, if not by anyone else then by me -.- -.- -.-
Yeah, I'm being biased, stereotypical and pessimistic, but the facts are on my side. Unfortunately :|
I hereby make the prediction that many rants will follow about TIFs community going to pot from this, similar to miniclip, and I hereby predict that those posts will have a point. Probably not as bad as they make it out to be, but they will have a point. Let's see how good of a prophet I am.
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It seems to me that a blend of the current system and the proposed system in which you choose what items you keep on death would work without massive issues.
So if you dont choose what you want to keep on death and end up dying well I guess it would be a case of tough luck but if you do then your choosen item(s) remains as a protected item until you remove it from your inventory, unequip it or use it. As soon as you die with said items you get a message reminding you either:
a) what your keep on death items are, or
B) that your items have reset to the system of which is most valuable.
Granted, that system isnt streamlined or perfect but I would allow someone who is really worried about their items to make sure they keep hold of them and people who die and feel cheated by the current system would really only have themselves to blame.
Tbh I think its difficult to gauge the impact this would have on the economy of certain items but really the only outcome I can see would be that certain items prices fall, which could possibly be combated by lowering there drop rate?
And my point is that the chances of forgetting to change it - even once - and dying to lose dozens of million in very high end items isn't worth the small chance that you'll save the price of a low ticket item. And that doesn't even count rare monster drops!
Literally EVERY item that comes from a monster would have to have its drop rate nerfed, balancing it out so the average person lost fewer items on death but gained fewer items on monster, ending up with the same overall bank value, further changing the game from skill based to luck based and VASTLY complicating the items on death scenario, while actually making the problem described worse. Bad idea. Sorry, but the current idea is the best. Jagex didn't become the second largest online game corporation in the world by failing to think things through.
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I like updates, but I'm not that bothered by them being reduced in frequency. I don't see what part of that is so hard to understand.
The part where "not caring if they were slowed down" turned into "not bothered". It was a simple yes or no question.
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If a newspaper posted detailed instructions on how to break in and enter a government building, steal valuable items, and sold you the tools do to it do you think they would get into trouble? This case wasn't about the site, it was about making material available, of which they are unquestionably guilty. Quite honestly, I hope they are convicted. It's obvious the site isn't there to peddle legal, free downloads, it's just a matter of jumping through the legal loopholes.
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Umm, NO. Incredibly stuipd and overpowered at ANY level, unless it costs at least 5m to use it. Infinite GWD\DKS\PKing\Fight Caves plz?
Sorry, but this is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a very long time. It would completely and utterly unbalance and ruin the game.
Anyway, they already have the banking part of it. Pack yak and imp boxes do a great job, especially the yak. High requirement, but works great.
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Nothing an imp can attack can use teleport runes. Revs are mostly dangerous in F2p also.
Teletabs for members, how many level 20 FTPers are going to be running around in the wildy? At any rate, the "run behind a tree" method works fine, something that wouldn't defeat the usual low level PKers.
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Well, I don't think it'll go as far as the gf/bf thing, although it's kinda sad anyway.
What? You do know they already banned discussion of gf\bfs long ago, and are handing out heavy punishments for such?
As it happens I do not remember that. Is this on RSOF? I really don't bother with RSOF much at all so I wouldn't know the slightest thing about their rules.
It was in an update on the main page a very long time ago. I really don't feel like hunting for it, so take my word for it. If you want to be stubborn and insist I find it, I will, but it IS there. I don't say something without having proof to back it up -.-
I did state it was a fact, that was my opinion. And yes, I'll take your word for it.
Now I feel bad that I didn't back up my post with the fact like I usually did. I quickly found it in the rules. I don't have a link to the newspost, but it's currently in the rules at
3. Is it okay to ask for a boyfriend or girlfriend in the games?No, that is solicitation and is not allowed at all. This is to ensure the safety of all our players.
Yeah, pretty cut and dried. Thanks for taking my word for it, though - at least it means I have a reputation :)
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I was saying that I didn't care that the forums were opened up to F2P players. I never said that I don't like updates, just that I could live with them being less common, therefore not caring if they were slowed down. This started with whether opening up the forums was good or bad and I was saying that I was indifferent because I didn't care whether or not it slowed down updates.
So do you like updates, or not? If you like updates, reducing them would be a bad thing. If you don't like updates, reducing them wouldn't bother you. I like updates and every now and then it's something I use, so it does bother me.
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[/hide]This morning I died at bork, lost my dragon axe (for jade vine), fire cape and karils over whip/d hally/fury :PFunny enough, I always seem to die where you can't get to your grave (quest areas and stuff).
Got 2 more defenders and currently on wave 53 of fight caves :)
No idea if this post has any discussion value but I felt like posting it.
- Got it :mrgreen:
Big congrats. You did the right thing, instead of going on rants and venting about an unfixable problem, you worked through and recovered. That's amazing, I would be royally pissed if I lost that much + defender + fire cape :shock: :shock:
I was browsing tif like I usually do while I kill bork after the cutscene, and apparently the mage hit me high or something so when I switched back I was in fally. I wasn't really that annoyed, just surprised it actually happened after 200+ borks. Then I was like 'Meh, waste of time. Guess I'll go get it back :| '.
That really is advisable, I now have everything back (because I still had my addy defender <3:) and all it has cost me are that bones that should have gotten me 84-85 pray (well, slightly more but that was just deducted from my cash pile) :P
Yeah, I had almost exactly the same thing happen to me. Suddenly found out I was at 21 HP and forgot to withdraw my tele. Was in bandos and all my leet gear from monster hunting, woulda lost around 40m. Luckily I made it out by killing him and home teleing (he was red barred, I didn't have time to run to the portal, I was praying that the mage didn't decide to cast a spell in the last few secondss).
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If you are being sincere when you strongly disagree... then the only reason Slayer mighr be bad is because you are bad at doing Slayer (with respect to experience rates). There was never a "proven" method of adjusting his rates for Slayer. There was you saying that are correct, but there was evidence to back up that claim. The only way to see if the adjustment is correct is for Qeltar himself to use the exact same method and equipment (only difference would it would be on Slayer using a Slayer Helm and using +10% strength prayer). That is the only real way to do it because everyone has different reaction times and attention spans. Also my current personal rate for Suqahs is 44.2k to Slayer (although up to around 50k is possible). Not only that, but I have gone that bad in any task even if you multiply his numbers by 1.15.
But thusfar it has been quite obvious that I am not "bad" at slayer - the same methods achieve very similar rates; we are using standardized equipments and inventories, and from timings ranging from reaction time tests to abyss run timing to XP\kill speed comparison at everything from GWD to monster hunting, I know that I am highly efficient (I recently came in less then a second slower then Zarfot's all time best rate for an abyss run - and he's been doing it dozens of times longer then I have), and I've only seen one other person in game who can come close to matching me.
I know that, I only said that it was my belief that combat level and Slayer level affects the frequency of tasks.
But without any facts, it's very hard to do any comparison. We need data on it to include this in our XP rates.
I don't think I've ever hard a large difference in testing but I can't be 100% sure. The point is, a 10% drop at Armoured Zombies is huge, something must have changed.
This was from dozens of hours of testing the largest difference I've ever experienced. Generally it's within 5%. I'm simply saying that 10 minutes is just too short to get numbers within a few percentage points, especially at a "complex" monster like Specters. You couldn't hunt Kree for 5 minutes and establish a kill per hour rate accurate to within a percent or two.
No, of course I completely missed the word about. That is clearly why I looked a couple pages before and after, you know, because I didn't know it was "about" page 36. I know for a fact that you have never given your rates for each task (experience and profit rates for each). Here's the kicker. You say I have "never" given detail with my results and that you have. The only thing I am apparently missing was the banking times. If that is the case, it can be deduced that you have those rates yourself. So what are banking times then?
I was operating under the impression that you had actually read my previous posts dealing with numbers. Have you or haven't you? That could clear things up significantly. And banking time were also hammered out earlier in the thread. Honesty, you seem to have forgotten everything we discussed earlier.
*Laughs at the irony in the first sentence* (Yes I know it is a typo)
Your responses to every single part on the section of Zamorak Brews does nothing but indicate you have misunderstood over and over. Then you tried to blame me for that. It was not a cover up, just calling it as I see it, your responses to that section was nothing short of idiotic. You can sit there and post ""your an idiot because you misread my post"" all day long if you want, the difference is you would be lieing.
*Laughs at the irony with the last 2 sentences*
The last 2 sentences indicated that you once again misunderstood my post. I posted this "Any lack of clarity in this case is directly your fault, as the posts were full of clarity." It clearly says "in this case". Now please explain to me how this means it is always your fault? I have never said it is either always the composers fault or the responders fault. I was pointing out in this case it was the responders fault because there wasn't exactly much room for misinterpretation.
Ehh? I don't see a typo in the first sentance, though I could have made it clearer by adding quotes: You can drop the "stuipd" argument (i.e. the argument that I'm an idiot).
My responses have been on target and made complete sense in the context of your post. I'm not sure why your continuing to harp on that point instead of responding to the actual post. If you can't understand my posts, it is MY fault. If I can't understand your posts, it is YOUR fault. We're both reasonably (or so I believe) intelligent human beings, and should be quite capable of grasping any point laid out in a reasonbly well communicated manner. Basically, all I'm saying is don't say "Your post made no sense, so its your fault. Oh, and its your fault you didn't think my post made any sense".
Every single time it was indicated there was no damage being taken. 2/3 directly say I am using it, and the 3rd infers it. Also, feel free to explain how a Unicorn will provide ample healing when I am being attacked by up to around 7 Aberrant Spectres at any one point in time. In case you do not understand why, I use a cannon in the Pollnivneach (think I spelt wrong) well. Also, just out of curiosity, how many healing aura scrolls would you go through per task on average?
Notice the key word "if". It's another example of why you should be listing your methods. In response to your question: I go through 30-40 in a task, at a cost of approx. 11k.
So by not being nitpicky your response started with "Assuming you meant now, and that would indeed be an interesting quote". The rest of the post did not indicate that it based on "no". The very next part of the quote is "- except that it was certainly not the end of our debate, and my numbers WERE based on testing" You went straight from assuming it is "now" to saying it was not the end of the debate. That is referring to when that number was brought up earlier in the thread.
And that is referring to your continued accusation of my "misreading" of your typo, not the argument itself. Why are you continually trying to swap factual arguments for personal arguments?
I have been recording some vid's of different tests ranging from about 7 minutes to 11 or so. every single one has been reasonably close to my hourly rate. So far I have done it for Waterfiends, Bloodvelds, Gargoyles, Skeletal Wyverns and Fire Giants. I performed 2 tests for both Gargoyles and Fire Giants to try different methods.
Define "reasonably close" and "some". Probability deals with numbers, not generic terms meaning "from 2 to infinity".
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And Ydrasil proved a few posts up that a cannon is most certainly worth using. I don't know about you, but I prefer to get things done quickly in Runescape, and if that means spending a little more money to get a task done in twenty minutes rather than an HOUR, I will opt for the cannon.
I missed the point where he ran the numbers for cannon at specters, perhaps you could point it out? Or are you just making it up to avoid the fact that you either refuse to or cannot do so yourself? :roll:
As far as I'm concerned, you haven't proven anything other than Armored Zombies are great melee experience and that you're terrible at slaying. I'm still optimistic that Slayer is better experience overall.
Where are YOUR rates to differ? You can believe 2 + 2 = 5 and be as optimistic as you want about it, but unless you have actual numerical proof of it, your mistaking your opinions for facts =D>
I've read large amounts of the thread and remember seeing that the cannon, from purely a time perspective, was more efficient. The time it saves, without considering the xp gained through its use, is enough to make it more efficient. I remember reading that before, in this thread. That was one of Ydrasil's points, and I remember reading your argument against it, though I can't exactly say that it ever made much, if any, sense to me.
Unfortunately, time isn't the only perspective. I typed up a very long and detailed response to that pont, and it boiled down to these basic paramaters working against the cannon that morningrise is trying to pretend don't exist:
#1: Experience lost due to cannon's damage being worth less (2 range XP from a cannon, worth far less then melee XP vs. 4 melee XP & 1.33 HP XP from melee)
#2: Combat rounds lost due to far away kills from cannons extended range (Specific to tasks, but if a cannon kills a monster 10 squares away from the next nearest one, your going to lose at least 2 whip hits running over to pick up a good drop)
#3: Combat rounds lost due to faster kills (Specific to tasks, worse on low HP monsters); basically, if a monster dies in 2 whip hits + various cannon hits, your going to lose more time running to the next monster and picking up the drops. This sometimes occurs with melee, but it's a time that does not go down with faster kills and works against cannons speed.
#4: Speeds related to tasks that a cannon does not affect (i.e. banking, getting a new task, running to the current one)
#5: Costs directly related to a cannon (Cannonballs)
#6: Costs related to cannon usage (Prayer potions due to multi combat)
#7: Spawn time issues (Harder at kalphites; at crowded times, it's very difficult to get a full world, and even then you spend a significant amount of time waiting for respawns - all the while receiving much less XP per task and spending more money thanks to the cannon).
There were quite a few other factors, but those were the main ones that I calculated to end up with a final figure that represented the earnings necessary to make the method equally efficient to melee; if it was over 400k, it was less efficient, and if it was under it was more efficient. Quite simple, and no amount of ignorance or opinions can change that.
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the links are kinda.... broken/outdated/nonexistent/typo'd
Oh, dur. TIF autolinks killed them. Here's the fixed version with URL tags:
http://www.mechscapeworld.com/images/research/JagexFinancialOverview.gif
http://www.mechscapeworld.com/images/research/JagexStaff.jpg
Proof that *someone* didn't even bother looking at my sources, though =D>
I know that, I was just clarifying my stance -- for some reason, that comes up in a debate a lot, so I thought that I'd get it out there.
I know, but it was a totally separate debate. I said "opening up the forums gives us fewer updates". You said "I don't like updates" :?
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Well, I don't think it'll go as far as the gf/bf thing, although it's kinda sad anyway.
What? You do know they already banned discussion of gf\bfs long ago, and are handing out heavy punishments for such?
As it happens I do not remember that. Is this on RSOF? I really don't bother with RSOF much at all so I wouldn't know the slightest thing about their rules.
It was in an update on the main page a very long time ago. I really don't feel like hunting for it, so take my word for it. If you want to be stubborn and insist I find it, I will, but it IS there. I don't say something without having proof to back it up -.-
What's next? Not banning people who say, "I'll pay you 5k for a good time,"? As stated, law systems intend to be consistent and black and white on purpose.
Yay. Another thread we agreed on. I was primed and ready for a long debate when I saw you had responded :lol:
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This morning I died at bork, lost my dragon axe (for jade vine), fire cape and karils over whip/d hally/fury :P
Funny enough, I always seem to die where you can't get to your grave (quest areas and stuff).
Got 2 more defenders and currently on wave 53 of fight caves :)
No idea if this post has any discussion value but I felt like posting it.
- Got it :mrgreen:
Big congrats. You did the right thing, instead of going on rants and venting about an unfixable problem, you worked through and recovered. That's amazing, I would be royally pissed if I lost that much + defender + fire cape :shock: :shock:
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I'm assuming that none of you read the earlier portion of this thread, or you would haev seen that for most task (including specters), cannon was proved to be inefficient and made slayer look WORSE. Using the rates for a cannon instead of meleeing would make slayer less efficient in comparison and armored zombies better. Now, I could have made the argument that because most people cannon I should use those numbers to make slayer look worse, but I believe that only the most efficient methods should be used.
So for those telling me to use a cannon, that's EXACTLY why I don't simply post my end rates, results, and methods here: had you gone back to read the beginning of the thread, you would have seen that using a cannon would make slayer look worse -.-
@Ydraisle: Busy in RL atm, I'll respond to your post later this afternoon.
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Where did I say that? It clearly says in the rules that breaking RS rules (including admitting to bug abusing) can we have action taken - up to and including a permanent ban depending on the offence.
Where do the rules say that? I might have overlooked them, but all I saw is the section 1.1 where it said rules like offensive language applied to TIF too #-o
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It's not as much as a problem as you make it to be.
In my opinion, it's due to the loss of the mature regualrs that used to keep discussions on topic and accurate. People like Muggi, Salim, Kent, Bubsa, and far more of the oldies have left for good. There's only a few people I can think of off the top of my head that I remember from the 'old times', Makoto (doesn't post much) and Zirro (More off topic then rs-related posts), Me, and some of the mods are about all I can think of right now.
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You totally lost sense of context. How about a little less black and white? If you really think that little chat was anything *really* sexual you're sense of interpretation is just totally lost.
Yeah, I know that making babies requires sex. But jokingly saying "making ghost babies" in some sort of chat context is not the same as walking up to someone and asking that person to make babies.
Context
What's next? Banning people whenever they use the words "make" and "babies" together in one sentence?
And you lost sense of context. Sorry, but these are real people your talking to, not an animated computer avatar. Try walking up to a female co-worker or student that you've never before seen in your life, and ask them loudly if they want to make babies. See what happens.
Well, I don't think it'll go as far as the gf/bf thing, although it's kinda sad anyway.
What? You do know they already banned discussion of gf\bfs long ago, and are handing out heavy punishments for such?
Items Kept on death, and other odds and ends.
in Rants
Posted
Exactly. But given a set of information, they think things through to come up with the best possible result. Sure, sometimes a few months later they find out that someone abused it or a previously-unheard of section was affected by it and it requires correction, but those are impossible to predict.
I'm saying it would go up - someone would have to die and lose their dragon boots hundreds of times to counter ONE person losing a hilt in the above mentioned manner.
One person saves his dragon boots, another person loses his newly-dropped Berserker ring. See above.
That is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Just because there isn't an example to prove or disprove what your saying doesn't mean it's automatically correct, or indeed, by definition, has anything to do with you being correct.
But we can't assume they would have, so we have to go with the most likely option.