compfreak847
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Posts posted by compfreak847
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Yay, I agree with quel. There's simply no distinguishing factor that can be easily detected between a RWTer and a non-RWTer. Hence, EVERYONE has to be stopped from RWTing. And Jagex has done a great job - I honestly can't think of any situation where the trade limit has restricted me significantly lately.
It hasn't affected me any since I got used to it, either. Although it did make me cancel helping a friend out with their 99 cooking goal when it was first introduced. Oh well, I guess they've probably got it by now, anyway.
You can still buy junk from him, but no, you can't give friends large sums of money easily. The only real change I can think of, and other then loaning items I can't think of many people who did that anyway.
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Absolutely horrible idea. Hally has FAR worse stats and is SLOWER then a godsword - and a godsword is significantly inferior to whip + defender. Honestly, think things out yourself before hitting the post button -.-
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Andrew already said they were working on it in the CC ages ago.
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soo many views and no replies ... C'mon People ! :mrgreen: :uhh:
Could you outline why you want sitting?
Also, bumping\spamming a thread when it's only a few posts down is against the rules.
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1) Exactly, which is why it's just an example. Youtubing videos? Of course not everyone does that, for example I don't. But going to youtube is only one way to pay effort and learn the ropes of a minigame. There are many ways to do this, so just because someone didn't go on Youtube doesn't mean they didn't learn some other way. Youtube, again, was only one example. This isn't just restricted to Youtube, they can go anywhere and look for tips. If they choose not to, ok maybe they can't be blamed. But they should play an active role during the game at least.
Start naming in-game activities, 'cause the only one I recall is the book.
2) In that case we just learn things differently. I'll accept that different people have different ways to learn. However, hurting others in the process is not the best way to do that. You say you stand aside and watch others. Well first you should tell them that you are new and are watching. No point in annoying people for no reason right? In all honesty if you're going to stand aside and watch you should at least tell your teammates, right? They have a right to know. At least that way, on the lower waves of BA, your team will be prepared and set 2 people on your role. This way you can watch and the team will still get the job done. What happens if you don't tell your team and you end up being the only defender? Defender is the most complex role, so if you're watching for one game, then your team cannot win that game because you will not be killing the runners, but watching.
How else am I supposed to learn? Telling them that their healer or defender won't be doing anything all game isn't going to make them happy, and if I watch and listen I can generally figure it out without them finding out.
Also, if you stand still and do nothing in BA, you learn nothing. I hope you meant you didn't play actively but still moved around the arena to observe others? And not just stand by the spawn point? From what the OP writes, he infers that the person he is ranting about does exactly that. Sitting in an out-of-the-way part of the arena. You can't learn anything if nothing is going on around you. Of course, I could be wrong with this, but the OP did not specify exactly what the player did, and I don't expect so since the OP was probably too busy playing the game.
I can see the whole arena from one spot, so I don't really get what your trying to say. But yes, I would stand their silent unless they yelled at me, in which case I'd ask what to do. Just like this guy.
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This is basically all opinion here. You (only you) might value Melee experience 3 times as valuable compared to Range, that does not mean everyone, the average person, or even anyone else does. Assuming I understand you correctly with the rates however, you are saying that a cannon lowers your melee xp/h rate and increase the Ranged xp/h? Feel free to explain to be how those points you mentioned earlier (there were 7 of them) apply to those rates?
Your first point was less experience per hit, that is accounted for already. That is what comprises the rate, and overall you get more experience per hour. Point 2 was about picking up drops, already accounted for when you tested the rate. Point 3 has the same reasoning as 2. Point 4 was stupid and has no affect on anything what so ever. Point 5 was costs, which is already accounted in with the profit rate. Point 6 was costs related to cannon usagae. In general cannon will save on supplies not cost more, so this point is backwards. Finally spawn times, same reasoning as points 2 and 3.
I'll say again. Yes those points are what influence the hourly rate. No calculations need to be done on the rate to adjust for those though as they have been adjusted for already during the test. So again, when it comes to getting the rate of experience, those points are irrelevant in that no calculations need to be be done to adjust for them as they are already including.
Drop the argument that the value of XP cannot be determined. For that matter, the value of GP cannot be determined so any numbers related to profit should be ignored. After all, a level 3 thinks 1k is worth a lot more then a 138, right? :roll:
Way to miss the point. What other players get is irrelevant here. I wasn't talking about or referring to them. It was purely about you. You claim you can get up to 825k on Aviansies and 1m at GWD. If that is true (i'm not trying to argue if it is or not, just showing the point), you are currently using inefficient methods in which to train Slayer. Ignore everyone else, I am talking about you here.
Again you bring up the value of experience, what you do not understand is that it cannot be calculated. The part in quoatation marks is pointless also as I have never said that or anything along those lines. You cannot add in a value of experience into the calculations here because it differs for every person. That is what you seem unable to comprehend.
Because the entire thread HAS to use the assumption that values are based on time to obtain. Otherwise any other rate is meaningless; if one person values oak planks above all else, are armored zombies statistically superior to every other form of training? Of course not, the only common variable is time.
Did I say everyone? Have I ever inferred everyone? That response you quoted of mine came directly from your confusion of my apparent inconsistency. I replied (I have to go through it again because you seem to have misunderstood) back saying that I had never agreed a cannon was inefficient, so that part of your response is irrelevant. It was also the basis of that response, so the entire thing was irrelevant.
You specifically said (and your calculations showed) that a cannon was inefficient at 400k\h
Explain to me why I should not use a cannon considering it is efficient to use one at 400k and I can easily make over double that? What logical reason would I have to give up that efficiency? Since I am sure you can do the same money-wise, what logical reason do you have to not use a cannon?
It is actually quite odd when you think about it. Your rate for Armoured Zombies comes from maxxed stats. Your maxed stats rate for Green Dragons is also 600k (around that anyway). I am sure there are many other things that maxed stats allows you get even higher profit rates. Do you see the dilemma here? You use the rate of experience for someone with maxed stats, but the profit rates of someone in the 80s (at a guess). So really it comes down to either the profit rate for someone who can get 103k per hour at Armoured Zombies is at least 600k per hour, or the profit rate is 400k per hour and they get about 80k per hour at Armoured Zombies. That is an inconsistency, what I had posted was not.
Because this isn't personal rates, this is what is generally obtained. Testing must indicate such.
Damn, I must have gone blind. I just couldn't seem to see the key words "combat training" anywhere at all. Also a quick note; Summoning experience is combat experience, just thought you should know. Either way, I know what combat experience over time is. I was pointing out your definiton of "efficient" was wrong, or at the very least you didn't type what you actually trying to convey.
Gee, it might be a good idea to read through my posts then. It's not as I was ignoring combat training, now was I? :roll:
I should have expanded on what I meant. Your post was a response to where I said you are not efficient, you said - "When casual slaying, not testing. There's a difference." From this it is interpretted you are efficient while testing, not while casually slaying. In other words, you are only efficient when testing. I was pointing out (maybe not in the best way) that my casual slaying is the exact same methods and attention as testing. Meaning I am always efficient, not only when testing.
And what does that have to do with your testing rates? I talk to friends when I'm not testing; how is that affecting my testing rates?
Finally we are getting somewhere. If you do message them to me I won't post them on the thread, but I will refer to them (obviously).
OK, I'll begin assembling them. I'll re-create my excel spreadsheet with personal numbers. Just understand that I will not be including methods; they are in the original posts, and you can get find them along with calculations if you want to argue them.
Specifcally the bolded section. So by simply reading the thread, that means they agree with your rates? (I won't go into the lack of your rates) These 2 quotes are contradicting each other. You say not everyone agrees with your rates and then say if they have read the thread they agree with them.
Do you see where he posted rates differing with mine? Real rates, not "lolz cannon is faster ur nub lulz". Please point them out if you did, cause otherwise he doesn't have a single rate of his own.
It is not the fastest (fastest combat experience per hour is using Chinchompas at Ape Atoll) combat experience in the game. But in my experience it is faster than Armoured Zombies, this is backed up with 'numerical facts'. About 20k combat experience faster, and then an additional 31k experience on top of that for Slayer.
I wasn't aware you could train melee with chinchompas, and slayer XP is what we're discussing. I believe you tested incorrectly or are simply lying, and I'm sure you think the same of me. Hence the debate.
Am I to assume that your argument is that slaying with a cannon is slower and less efficient than slaying without one? I'd just like to clarify.
Gee, you think? It might be a good idea to read my posts.
Perhaps I'll humor you and do a five minute test. Or you can ask any good Slayer, but that'd be much too difficult for you.5 minute test isn't going to be enough to overturn around 80 hours of cannon vs. melee, so I guess you'd better rethink that route. Never seen numbers from any other slayer, so you'll have to ask them to send me details of rates with and without, as well as specifics as to costs (prices change) and experience gained per skill plus statics like banking time.
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Some people seem to be missing my point. The cheapest Cable connection here in the USA is at least 40$; she's not paying $50 for her health, she's paying it because there's really not much else available. There's nothing in the way of a few-dollars-a-month plan for those who want to check email every now and then without the hassle and frustration of dial up - which STILL costs $20 a month and is rapidly disappearing.
Hi, I work for an ISP
She could get high speed 768/128k DSL for 15.00-24.95 depending on her location; dont even need a phone line, you can get a dryloop/standalone dsl service.
I know some of our DSL customers use DSL strictly for large emails and never browse the web - is it fair to them? Sure, most customers who don't go onto web pages say they dont want too or "are too stupid too". Their fault , not ours.
She lives in a poorly-serviced area. The best dial up she can get is 22 KB\s, and even that's very spotty and disconnects every couple of minutes. DSL is out of the question; the two major providers (Earthlink\SBC Yahoo!) don't service her area, and satellite is very expensive (80+ a month) with slow speeds and very high latency. Cable is really her only option, and there's simply very little in the cheaper range that doesn't bundle unwanted services in with it.
That being said, the problem is coming from the ISP itself. We're paying $50 a month for unlimited service. If one customer doesn't use it, the ISP says its their fault. But if one customer pulls a terabyte and costs then tens of thousands of times the infrastructure usage, they say it is the customer's fault, and they have to up the rates for everyone or begin tiering services.
I say no... I eat a ton of bandwidth, that's why.
Yeah, I assumed most responses would be biased because of that on an online forum. I pull around 20-30 GB per month from a low-volume server, the occasional movie from Hulu, and mild TV streaming from NBC. It's within reason, but probably over the average.
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Exactly. If your private chat is off or on friends, they can't PM you. It's that simple.
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Yay, I agree with quel. There's simply no distinguishing factor that can be easily detected between a RWTer and a non-RWTer. Hence, EVERYONE has to be stopped from RWTing. And Jagex has done a great job - I honestly can't think of any situation where the trade limit has restricted me significantly lately.
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f2p does not need anymore updates. you get to not be able to use mage in combat at high levels because you do not pay to play :D
EDIT: i would go pking in f2p if they had addie cbows lmao.
Yeah? Jagex clearly stated that f2p deserves updates and f2p is not just a demo version of the game. P2P gets enough updates per month. Wow I had to state this 2-3 times. This is a balancing update of the triangle, that won't benefit f2p mage so greatly that all p2p mages just go and play f2p. Jagex seeks to attract f2p players to subscribe to p2p, and the best way is to entice them with incomplete spellbooks/armor types/etc so they will want to get p2p.
Honestly, these snobby and selfish p2p players makes me sick. How the hell does the $5 you pay give you an opinion in what Jagex should update? You think they care about your freaking $5? Leave if you want, and I gurantee you, more people will surely take your place and Jagex will earn more.
P.S. You blame f2p for lousy grammar and spelling in spam threads while you can't even spend some time improving yours.
The usual marketing BS. FTP is a big hole into which Jagex pours money, in hopes that enough members will come crawling out to make up for it. They're a business, not a non-profit organization. Like most businesses, they concentrate on earning money so they can improve the game for their paying customers. Every dollar they spend on FTP is a dollar less for PTP - they will rarely deprive the group generating a profit just so the freeloaders get a better game.
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All you're doing is deliberately making it difficult for anyone to argue against you. It's not that you're right, you've just buried your statistics and evidence in 40 pages of dribble. If you were really so confident, you'd post everything on the front page.
Also, I find it extremely laughable that you honestly believe your methods to be efficient in any way. I don't need numbers or tables to tell you that using a cannon is faster than not using one. If you're not aware of that, I can only assume that you've not done the quest for the cannon, or perhaps you have done it, and just never used it. Which is it, O Lord of Debate? Zarfot wrote an end-all guide to Slayer, and you're claiming that he is wrong. I'm afraid that your level of 85 is pitiful compared to his 30m experience.
You can't even kill Dark Beasts, what the hell gives you the right to argue that slayer is poor experience?
^If you don't recognize that, it's similar to the argument you used against me when we discussed combat familiars.
So again, where are your numbers saying anything about a cannon? I haven't seen a single figure even remotely relating to efficiency calculations coming from you. Care to back up your 'facts', or are you simply spouting opinions?
They are considered, but are irrelevant. That is my point. In performing the tests for the average rate of experience, those factors are already assounted for and boost/reduce your average rate accordingly. Sure you can mention they are there, but to reiterate - they are irrelevant.
They all are relevant. For example, your tests for experience not differentiating between melee and range. Melee maxes out at 52-53k\h for max XP\h breaking even; range hits 165k. Melee XP is 3 times as valuble, and a cannon shifts the balance to range (and much less range at that).
:wall:
We went through this earlier in the thread. There is no set amount for the value of experience. Everyone values experience in each skill differently, so you cannot add in the value of experience here. The smiley also refers to you mentioning the 400k again. I wasn't doing that for everyone else, that was specifically for you. I was showing that you are inefficient. As you have posted in many other threads, you claim you can get up to 825k from Aviansies, 600k (I think it was) from Green Dragons and also 1mil or so from Godwars (all on an hourly basis). Not to mention I am sure you have other money making methods. Since you make that much, you are being inefficient for not utilising the cannon. Yet over and over you have tried to claim you are an efficient Slayer, this shows you are not. That is what I was trying to convey.
Very few high level players can obtain that from avansies, as many telling me I'm "wrong" (no, I'm not) show. There is no set amount for the value of experience, but in a debate you MUST use the most efficient method for obtaining it. You can't simply say "well there's no set value for anything so anyone who says they think slayer is best is right".
But I have no recollection of you posting your rates and you refuse to post them again or tell me where to find them (saying middle of the thread or page 15-50 or whatever else like that, is not telling me exactly where). The fact that you have said you would do a comparison between mine and yours had indicated you had the rates. You claimed you lost them on your computer. However since (i'm assuming here) you would have known that before you posted that you would compare, that can only mean you knew where to find them. Since that is the case, it should not be this hard for you to tell me exactly where they are.
Why is it so difficult for you to go back and read the thread? I've told you time and time again why I'm not going to simply list them here, so please stop parroting the same thing over and over. Your forcing me to do the same with asinine, repetitive arguments.
Errr what? Where was my information inconcsistent. I never agreed a cannon was inefficient. You will never find a post where I say that because I have never agreed to that (how can you be this ignorant?). I have always used a cannon and always will because it is more efficient to use one, simple as that. Which is why it is included in my equipment.... I mean... using a cannon falls under what equipment I use right? :roll:
The only "version" you need to believe is the only "version" that was presented to you. That version is that a cannon is more efficient than no cannon.
Not to mention those calculations were based on only 400k profit per hour being possible. I get far more than that, making a cannon much more efficient that what it already was.... and you expect me to not use a cannon because you are under the delusion it is inefficient? How arrogant is that?
I'm using 400k in my rates, period. I'm afraid you missed that ltitle part under my post. So trying to pretend that just because you can get X million per hour and therefore a cannon is more efficient for everyone is laughably absurd.
Well since you can only get Slayer experience by doing Slayer (at a reasonably rate), the overall best experience (across all skills) means that one method has to include getting Slayer experience. Also it might be just me, but that defintion seemed a bit confusing. You can't equalize every rate except time simultaneously. By that I mean each method will have a set profit (whether negative or postive) per experience point for that skill. The current debate shows this clearly.
Armoured Zombies (your rate):
146.3k experience per hour.
190k profit.
= 1.299gp profit per experience
Slayer (my current average rate):
195k experience per hour (I think it was, haven't gone back to check).
105k profit.
= 0.538gp profit per experience.
That is overall experience by the way. The point being that if you balnce the experience rates, the profit rates will not be equal. So you aren't equalizing all rates except time. So your definiton is wrong in that respect. Unless of course I am misunderstanding what you posted.
Notice the key word: Combat Training. All combat rates except time can be equalized; subtract profit\loss, summoning XP, and your left with XP over time.
So you are inferring that my personal rate can only be gotten because I am testing? The test is based on how I "casually" train Slayer, so that is irrelevant.
No, you completely took my quote out of context. I was saying that my rates were from testing, so the argument that I "only" got 45k\h when casually slaying has nothing whatsoever to do with testing.
At the very least you could message us the results and we won't repost them in the thread if you are that worried about it. I need your numbers to fully compare where you are going wrong (might sound a bit arrogant but you can't deny you seem to go far slower than what I do).
Messaging them is an option. I'll see how easy it is to extricate every task from the posts and PM them to you. Please do me a favor and don't repost them here, dealing with flame wars isn't high on my list of things I like about TIF :evil:
That is beyond stupid. So if they have read the thread that must mean they agreed with your rates? And yet anyone who reads the thread will not find your rates for experience. How odd is that?
Again, go back and read my posts. I'm afraid you missed the point behind many of them, like the part where I didn't say that everyone agrees with my rates #-o
I think I have figured out why people are getting so agitated. You say slayer sucks, but the fact is that is all your opinion. The fact is, slayer does not suck. It is a good skill. It may not be the most efficient, cost effective, blah, blah, blah, but it is still a fun skill to level, unlike some other useless skills (fire making :P ). You have a slayer level of 85, you cannot say you hate it after all that.Yeah, I'm afraid you really didn't read much of anything. I love the skill, it's one of my favorites, but it is not the fastest method to train combat - and that is something that can only be backed up using numerical facts like XP rates.
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Rune hatchets *almost* as good ;)
Barrows is a problem, though. I tried it a while back but eventually gave up :P
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Ah, glad you clarified that. To whatever mod reads my report: He changed his post so it doesn't need to be moved any more. Sorry for wasting your time #-o
Blogscape also covers stories, drop logs etc. etc. so if you do decide to update a post with information like that, I'd recommend Blogscape :P
Also: Welcome to TIF :thumbsup:
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Cool! Wish ya good luck :P
This does, however, belong at viewforum.php?f=98. I'll report so it can be moved :
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You. Have. To. Read. The. Replies. To. Obtain. Details. Of. My. Rates. And. Methods. Along. With. Calculations. To. Prove. Those. Methods. The. Most. Efficient.
What's so hard about that? Is it really that unreasonably to ask people to read responses to my thread before posting?
When it's 70 pages of insanity with rates mixed in with all sorts of side comments and arguments that completely detract from the discussion and serve no purpose but to frustrate the reader, yes. It would be a hell of a lot easier if the information was in one place. But really, it's your call -- if you don't want anyone to understand what the hell you're talking about because all the relevant information is lost in a sea of irrelevancy, go right ahead.
Apparently you haven't bothered to read the first 40 pages. Really, just read my or ydraisel's posts - we both quote each other. There was a lot less flaming then is going on now, possibly because people were actually reading the whole thing. It seems to come in cycles, there's waves of stuipd posts that taper off to a relevant discussion, then reemerge later on. I think they feed off each other - if they see someone else posting their incorrect opinion, it encourages them to follow up on it and argue it without bothering to read the relevant posts.
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Those aren't the rates being discussed, and they certainly aren't my rates as pertaining to this argument. The first 40-50 pages are dedicated to the rates in question, you should check it out.
And yet again, you completely overlook the point.
Look, you want intelligent, informed debate? Make the information easy to find. You'll be doing the people here a favor and doing yourself a favor as well, since you'll have less drivel to read and a higher chance of someone actually reading the information you want discussed. Kind of a win-win, unless you like things being difficult for everyone (which I'm beginning to think is the case).
You. Have. To. Read. The. Replies. To. Obtain. Details. Of. My. Rates. And. Methods. Along. With. Calculations. To. Prove. Those. Methods. The. Most. Efficient.
What's so hard about that? Is it really that unreasonably to ask people to read responses to my thread before posting?
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What's the advantage of sitting? How does that benefit clan socializing? And how does it differ from sitting in a POH?
Its like this if you'resaying it like that, What's the advantage of being muted pernamently?
There is no advantage, that's the whole point of a punishment. How does that answer my question?
so we are being punished by jagex for something and thus not being able to sit in chairs is the punishment? :wall:
Could you point out where I said that it had anything whatsoever to do with your suggestion? He made a post that didn't have anything at all to do with it, and I was simply asking why.
I also have no idea and im trying to find out :D
Then ask him, not me. I have no idea why. Could you outline why you want sitting, though?
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What's the advantage of sitting? How does that benefit clan socializing? And how does it differ from sitting in a POH?
Its like this if you'resaying it like that, What's the advantage of being muted pernamently?
There is no advantage, that's the whole point of a punishment. How does that answer my question?
so we are being punished by jagex for something and thus not being able to sit in chairs is the punishment? :wall:
Could you point out where I said that it had anything whatsoever to do with your suggestion? He made a post that didn't have anything at all to do with it, and I was simply asking why.
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XP per hour with slayer: 50k
XP per hour with Zombie Monkies: 110k
XP per hour with slayer: 50k, Profit per hour: 50k
XP per hour with monkies: 110k, Profit per hour: (-40k)
And those rates are not just thrown out there, free for "flamers" to argue only after reading the first post? That whole argument is just dumb in my opinion. It'd be the same with a table of experience and profit rates. Like I said, post the numbers, link to the testing information that backs them up for anyone that wants to check it. You are just being stubborn and/or lazy. It's much much easier for someone who should know their rates and have them on hand to post them all than it is for someone to go through 70 forum pages of posts where multiple experience rates and methods are discussed (interspersed with flames,snide comments, petty arguments).
Those aren't the rates being discussed, and they certainly aren't my rates as pertaining to this argument. The first 40-50 pages are dedicated to the rates in question, you should check it out.
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Jus throwin it out there.
Then PM an admin where it might do something instead of randomly posting it on this thread. I'd like to solve world hunger, but I don't post about it here.
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And I'm fairly sure compfreak was joking about the 18+ thing ;)
*sigh*
It's my idea of Tiptopia...
Not to say younger users cant' contribute, that's why we have the forums open to all. But conversing with those younger then your children does get tiresome sometimes :lol:
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What's the advantage of sitting? How does that benefit clan socializing? And how does it differ from sitting in a POH?
Its like this if you'resaying it like that, What's the advantage of being muted pernamently?
There is no advantage, that's the whole point of a punishment. How does that answer my question?
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What's the advantage of sitting? How does that benefit clan socializing? And how does it differ from sitting in a POH?
Tormented Demons - The Excellently Uber Guide!
in General Guides
Posted
BGS was owning there for me. And warrior's effect is less then 1%, something you could tell even with hours of hits logged, much less just from watch.