nadir

PsyClonz6110, i am blinded by your arguments. by the way, i haven't seen them. let me guess what your iq is that you are unable even to write a half decent argument. no, i would better not do that, it would be considered an insult. penguingeek3, you are taking their side to me, without trying my way. i tried my way and left edge bank at the same time with them and got to the altars at the same time. you say that i am wrong just because you side with others, without trying both sides. please, try both sides carefully before posing as an authority in the matter. i made over 25k nats, over 10k laws and over 10k cosmics using the abyss only to repair my pouches. i stopped making them just because i got to the point where i would not need them for a pretty long time, otherwise i would have continued to make them. i just got 84 mining and got plenty of rune ores from the rocks in wildy, and got attacked each time by revenants, and i got away with less than 1/2 hp (lvl 87 now), but with at least 12 ores before i got bored :P. it's still very dangerous with the revenants, and i can still get some ores. price drop for the ores? you mean smithers would not pay big coins to buy one of the few runite ores/bars? even if they would not, enough people know how much items made of rune hi-alch for. id you don't know, i suggest you use the guide for hi-alching this nice fan-site provides :) i don't understand how to see this autoers killing green drags is good? i sure hope you are not suggesting that i tried to kill green drags. there are plenty of people there killing them (alot less than autoers, so i can still get a decent number, but it's getting crowded). also with autoers there normal players would have a very hard time if they wanted to kill green drags (like i do, since i'm a skiller). green hides are still in demand, i can tell you that. why? because you don't need a high crafting lvl to use them, because they hi-alch for nice cash. also, now with autoers gone, drag bones are up in price, and from this will profit only legit players. ok... rs gold buyer starts with 2 mil (pretty easy to get with wc, fishing, mining) trade 1 (takes 1 minute) rs gold buyer puts 2 mil worth (even items) rs gold seller puts 2.2 mil trade 2 (takes 1 minute) rs gold buyer puts 2 mil worth (even items) rs gold seller puts 2.2 mil trade 3 (takes 1 minute) rs gold buyer puts 2 mil worth (even items) rs gold seller puts 2.2 mil trade 4 (takes 1 minute) rs gold buyer puts 2 mil worth (even items) rs gold seller puts 2.2 mil trade 5 (takes 1 minute) rs gold buyer puts 2 mil worth (even items) rs gold seller puts 2.2 mil in 5 minutes 1 mil worth of stuff has a new owner. (start now with 2 mil+ 1 mil just gained) in 5 more minutes, 1.5 mil worth of items changed owner (start now with 3 mil+ 1 mil just gained) 5 more minutes, and 2 mil (more) of items changed owner in just 15 minutes (and i used 1 minute/trade, wich is a very exaggerated value) 4.5 mil just changed owners, using the 10% more suggestion. now guess how much time it takes to get to really expensive items, and tell me that there are lots of players in rs that would not trade 15 minutes of their time to get 4.5 mil rs coins. etcetera reasons from me too why wildy has not been lately such a "great place to train" see? i can do that too >< sorry, but i can't answer to something if you don't tell me what that something is. nitram99 i am NOT against this. as far as i am concerned, jagex can make everything they want with bounty hunter. the idea is that it has to be BALANCED. too many areas - no pk-ers can disrupt the rwt. too few areas - too unbalanced, only high combat levels survive if they have equal numbers and strategy with their enemies. the game is different from the others in rs. the rogue bounty hunters are the RISK in this minigame, and they can make clan wars like in the old wildy there, so i think only pk-ers that usually worked solo complain now, but jagex stated that they are planning (ok, you might see the outcome in -gasp- 2 years, but i doubt that) 1versus1 pk-ing. i am NOT against more environment in that minigame. "risk-reward balance is just not holding up" there was a high risk for the rc-ers to lose a 50-60k glory to make a 3-4k run of runes in the abyss. i can't see there the risk for the pk-ers. now rc-ers are fighting monsters, and pk-ers that want to pk have to fight someone that is READY to fight back. sorry, the only change that i see is that rc pk-ers are faced with a real RISK for a REWARD. look in the minigame highscores. some people are already ranked there, and i admit that more people are ranked in rogue compared to normal bounty hunter. but you have to admit that rogue bounty hunter was already set, so i can't see the part where the game is different from what it was supposed to be. going in wildy usually did not involve expensive items (at least from people that have visited the multy areas or the areas beyond lvl 30), so i can't see what the big change is about. players skilling in wildy also did not have (after being pk-ed a few times) expensive items or expensive rewards. jagex stated that they are working on 1vs1 pk-ing. congrats, you have it :) it's like old wildy multy-combat. the single combat jagex stated it is going to be made. you are skulled. you have only 5 minutes until your items become visible to others. you think you can a. go to a bank b. withdraw teleport to the closest place to where you died and supplies for you to survive the trip there and back c. teleport there and run to that place. i think there are a few places where you can't get to in 5 minutes, so invincibility is out of the question. you already agree with me with your "almost". this means you can still lose your stuff. i agree, it looks that way, if you look only at wildy. but look at god wars dungeon or king black dragon or dagganoth kings or kalphite queen (ok, i'm not very sure about kbd and kq :P). you need plenty of time to get there, more than just 5 minutes, and your friends can't pick your stuff and return them to you, so the people from jagex had to help you out a little. food useless? if you die, the trip back to the place you died takes only 2 minutes and some tele runes it is worth less than 2-4 sharks? i would rather train/kill powerfull monsters instead of running around and picking my items up in front of an aggressive dragon or something else. so... your problem is that... ? you want to be able to take a p hat into bounty hunter, but you think no sane person would do it, and also you think it is too dangerous to even enter it. why is taking useless items into bounty hunter so important to you? i think you can also ask jagex to make available high lvl spells into barbarian assault, allow you to enter with all the runes, allow capes and hats into cw, but it would not be in the spirit wich inspired those minigames. i already tried it, and from what i saw, i left edge bank at the same time as another rc-er that uesd abyss while i used faery rings and got at the altar at the same time (and yes, it was the SAME rc-er and the same run). you try it. please don't tell me what other people told you, YOU try it before you judge if i say is right or wrong. i think the current system rocks. i don't want it to be changed. i don't think merchanting is a skill or a good way to make coins. because you don't MAKE coins, you TAKE from one player and that player has less to use for what he/she needs. if you want to MAKE coins, kill a monster, or just cut mages (for example) mine p ess, make nats, and hi-alch the mage longbows. ok... if i understand, you want that every 15 minutes a player can't make more than 1 trade that involves between 0.1% and 10% difference. the rs gold seller can be a normal player that wants cash, it does not HAVE to be a central hub for many bots. that player can just merchant (using the 10%) some cash or just mage logs all day and sell them, then sell the rs gold for real cash. you still ask how can he sell? trade 1 rs buyer puts in trade 10 mil rs seller puts in 11 mil 1 mil changed hands in less than 1 minute. then both of them can go back and meet again 15 minutes later. and please don't tell me players that own 10 mil worth of stuff don't want more, or that there are not plenty of them. and about the 30-days suggestion: if you are very impatient, why you think everyone else is? rs gold buyers and rs gold sellers can be patient. and if they are patient for 30 days, they can get what they want: the rs coins buyer can get the cash needed for those pray levels while he trained something else, and the rs coins seller is sure he has a buyer for the items /coins he wants to gather this month. hmmm... sounds like a paycheck to me that is good at the end of the month please don't tell me you need more examples. just think of the possible exploits yourself, try to bend those suggestions to the limit, instead of asking from me proofs. i understand you are not happy with the canges, but the suggestions have to change the game in such a way that no big cash can exchange hands with ZERO risk. merchanting is clearly one of them. duelling with just 1 player is another. shops that sell at a price that is not from GE is another, drops in non-bounty hunter is another, and finally pk-ing in bounty hunter HAS TO BE DANGEROUS, because it's the last way. if just one of them is missed, then all the suffering the others have from these changes is for NOTHING, and rwt will continue. D_V_Devnull in those trades can be items worth that much, not necesarly coins. this change is only for merchanters and for rwt's. would you want merchanters to be banned? come on, THINK!!!

Jackg243 yea, sure. this whole game was made just for players that want to pk. 1. pk-ing may be a part of the rs economy, but i do not consider pk-ing a big part of the rs economy. to get those combat levels, even the pures have to consume food and (why not?) pots. my opinion is that most of the food and the pots is used to train the combat levels and not in the real pk-ing, and that there are plenty of players that want high combat lvl but do not pk. 2. i am a skiller, and i still need food, pots, weapons and armour for combat. i make all food and pots that i need and i sell the rest to people that want to power-train combat and don't want to be bothered with gathering them (my opinion is that there are plenty of players that want high combat lvl but do not pk, just like me). 3. pk-ing is not dead. read the highscores for the minigames. all of them feature players that pk, and they have to be better than others to get in the highscores, so i guess there are at least 2 times more players trying to get in the minigames highscores. since your whole letter is based on a wrong initial statement, it makes me see it as something very...

penguingeek3, some people use the abyss just to repair their pouches (like me). others are so convinced that abyss is better that would not try anything else. zmi altar is double p in the same amount of time compared even to deat rc-ing, if you know how to do it. the only drawback is that you get random runes. "F2P. Also, before the update, the wilderness rune rocks were occasionally less crowded, due to the fact that there was more danger out there. So, smart and risky miners were able to go up and mine rune uncontested. No longer is this true. " 1. it's a very long trip to get there (~45 wildy), and you have to walk back with all the ores until ~20 wildy. that's not a fast way to get cash. 2. miners in f2p always had a hard life. 2k players max and less than 1/3 of mining sites. if i would be f2p-er, i would be happy green dragons were not a great way to train. they were always full with bots. i was there. even blue drags started to be hard to find one free. "There are many other activities that could be done in the wilderness. For example, bone gathering. When I was getting my prayer up, I went up to the chaos altar (The non-RC altar). I had to keep an eye out for PKers. (I wasn't carrying anything valuable, but nonetheless, I still didn't really want to be killed)" mention those other ways since you had nothing valuable on you, you were risking nothing. i can't see the problem. you could have been pk-ed and lost nothing, so there was NO real risk "As for your response to Imcleith... Jagex has made official worlds for these things, so they're officially part of the game. " i agree, there is a logical problem here. Jagex agrees that they are a part of runescape, then just cuts them off entirely. on the other hand, maybe they (jagex) will make some updates to fix this. but i am very sorry, as a skiller i still am unable to understand why someone would run to any altar enough times to make a decent profit, but would not do it for his/her own rc lvl. i am not against this, i helped a fried to make airs, i just don't understand why someone would not try to train to get that lvl.

solutions 1 and 2: marginal, have nothing to do with the fact wildy is gone solution 3: "great reward = great risk". that's what people were getting told when they whine about getting ambushed in lvl 32 by a clan while they were there just for a clue. "and not being afraid of be jumped by a whole gang or clan" you are in a DANGEROUS MINIGAME where you can have HIGH REWARDS, so "great reward = great risk". you can't handle it? you want target practice in a safe area with low chances of getting actually killed? go range or hally a dust devil. i hear they drop drag chain. are you a REAL PK-er? then you CAN handle being jumped on. "problem" 4 there is no such thing. there are other clans too, and that clan can be easy jumped on by a bigger clan. summary: 2 little suggestions for bounty hunter and rubbish "problems" and "solutions" ":::::: Suggestions and ideas about how to bring back PK:ing and the Wilderness as we can stand it ::::: " problem&solution 1 the day all runescapers have 500k for a gravestone to keep 5 minutes their stuff will be a bright day. until then most runescapers would not pay 500k for that, and maybe not even 50k. the whole idea with the gravestone is that a friend can keep it "alive" until you get there and collect your items because outside bounty hunter noone can pick those items anyway "solution 2" "If you still have a version of unbalanced trade real-world-traders wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have any intention to go into the wilderness anyway as they couldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t make the trade anyway. So that renders the purpose of the no-self-choise policy useless. " the rwt seller enters bounty hunter with a party hat. he gets killed. the rwt buyer picks up the party hat and exits. trade done. your solution? sorry, i see none that makes any sense. or rather a "-Problem 3-: No more pk:ing in the whole of the wilderness. " jagex stated very clearly why the wildy is srunked to bounty hunter. but you could not be bothered to read it. the whole idea of wildy was to fight another player for his/her items. do that in bounty hunter. you want some target practice and no risk? (also known as a player in wildy with no weapons/armour/food that is there for non-pk reasons) go range/hally a dust devil problem 4 uhhh... i fail to see your problem 4. abyssal rc is just as fast as faery rc/baloon (except for death runes wich are hardly as looked for compared to nats/laws/cosmics, and are worth less) it just has a little more danger. if you want rc pk-ing back, you want target practice. see my previous answer. sumary. a joke. wait! more jokes. without salt. not funny at all. uhhh... no jokes ":::::: Suggestions and ideas about how to keep a living merchanting market, able to give/loan and still keep Real-World-Traders out ::::: " problem&solution 1 "With this % limit if you want to trade 1M rs-gold the other part still would have to put up at least 90 % - 3k worth of stuff to be able to make the trade. So this still makes it very hard life for real-world-traders but still makes a living merchanting market. " this is so narrow-minded... using your example: player that wants to buy rs cash (from now on known as "rs cash buyer") player that wants to sell rs cash (from now on known as "rs cash sellerr") 1-st trade rs cash buyer puts 2000k rs cash seller puts 2200k (4 more trades later) 1 mil coins transeferd from rs cash seller to rs cash buyer. your sollution? another joke. problem/solution 2. i have right now over 20 mil cash. with your solution i can (but i NEVER WILL) very easy sell all that for real cash to one of my friends. rwt stopped? nope. why you think rwt-ers would not wait even months to trade the rs cash for real one? if i would want to sell all that cash, i would wait anytime. big summary "The 3k limit is just really not game-smart. There are at least 1 other much better idea for the same thing out there, this one that I present is just one of them." very funny. not. not at all. and i proved it very quick and easy a few rows up. honestly it's hard for me to decide if you randomly hit your keyboard with your rear end or you are rwt-er. Imcleith, ... why bother with ess running when you can make your own runes? are you rc pure? lol i'm 76 rc-er and i did not try it too much. i mostly made runes for my own use (95%) and i did not used outside help, except 2 times when a fried asked my help to make more airs out of his ess, and that was for a very short time D_V_Devnull "Nitram99, you have my support in this matter. These tweaks would still block RWT" see above summary(s) penguingeek3 "Many of the non-PKing activities that could be done in the wilderness (Abyss RCing, rune mining, training on monsters there, etc.) were very effective, either in training, making money, or something else." rc-ing - effective in training = lame. zmi altar is better making money - if i make nats using faery rings i am just as fast as using the abyss, but no risk of losing my glory because of lagg and skulled rune mining - effective in training.... try iron rocks. alot faster making money. - there are other runite rocks. example: heroes guild. training on monsters fire giants/rock crabs/bloodvelds is better and alot safer your point? sorry, i see none.

Qeltar, "Excessive Price Restriction" since most rc-ers that make lots of nats would keep them for sale in GE for fast selling, you would waste less time teleporting to varrock/edge and going to GE compared to repeating over and over again "buy 5k nats 270 ea!" "Inability to Buy or Sell Items Quickly:" "Right now, I could say ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åbuying blue dhide chaps 15kÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

seriously, did the author of this even read the results of the polls on runescape official site this year? most of them asked (indirectly) if players would like these (i agree that they are) drastic changes we have seen yesterday. there WILL be a runescape when the dust settles, and i belive that at least 50% (or more) of the players will stay. "they removed staking!" "they removed merchanting!" "they removed pk-ing!" they are still there, in a different form! "i can't make cash from them anymore!" yes, you can, now with real risks, no more pures versus noobs. (except merchanting, wich was silly to begin with) why so many people are happy about these changes? no, you don't MAKE cash out of any of that, you TAKE from another player. did you ever wondered why the rest of the comunity does not like very much these 3 categories? because they are in for fast cash, low risks, and not to MAKE cash (or items) through skills or just picking flax/mort myre fungus etc. merchanting/pk-ing/staking does not bring anything into the game, like these things do, but if you find gullible enough people, you can take (some of their if not all) prised posesions. now to be a successfull pk-er you have to fight real pk-ers, that are ready to fight back. scary, huh? now you can't duel anyone and take his/her posesions by claiming that you're a noob -while being a pure to keep the combat lvl down-, now you have to fight 8 other people with rules you can't control. all i say is this: you really want target practice? someone that hardly fights back in an efficient manner? try an npc. dust devils are good, and altho i never got one, i hear they drop drag chain. you want a REAL fight to prove that you are very TOUGH? use the duel tournament and stay on top of it, or be the best bounty hunter/rogue bounty hunter. to use a favourite phrase of some pk-ers that i have read alot: "high risk, high gains!". but i am convinced that they use it just to cover up the fact that they are not willing to take any risks at all... of course, they can prove me wrong and get high in the bounty hunter/rogue/duel highscore charts... "you just hate this because you don't have our and because you're not able to do these things properly!" 1. i don't care about expensive stuff. it will someday become cheap or i will get that as a drop, and i'll be able to buy it, or it's a useless rare, and i could not care less about that. 2. if all runescape would do this (example: the grand exchange) then it would stop being a profitable business. author, i agree 100% with your conclusion and Jagex decisions there. you do realise you just said 2 things that are opposite, right? if jagex loses players, then it loses money.

i don't look forward alot for anything at all this month. if i would say what i would be interested the most this month, it would be the dev. diaries (i'm very curious about summoning :D)

wrong, i used karambwan alot (1k+), it stops you from hiting

you know that there is no great difference between that and lemmings, right?

kieranread, "a couple" does not necessarly mean "two", it can mean "a few" wich might be more than just "two"

i made only 2 accounts: the first one just to play on it (1878 total level and rising :P) i made the second one when a friend asked me for help during shield of arraw and i didn't knew of the existence of the thread(s) in RSOF for heroes/shield of arraw partners. basicly it was a 1 use account, lol

helping the economy... i care more about the players. and the legitimate players are not helped at all. if you want high level fast in a skill that depends on raw materials and have the cash, then the "macros" are helping you because you get raw materials cheaper = you get there faster in my case i wanted flech 85 and i wanted to cut yews to make yew longs. i think i don't need to tell you how hard it was. for players that want high (99) wc or don't have the cash to buy the raw materials for fletching, it's bad for players that start rs and want to get some cash, it must be very hard. they can't cut trees because of the macroers, they can't mine, they can't sell the flax for decent prices, they can't sell the ess (or p ess) for decent prices anymore. it's very bad. a new player is inferior to a bot: he can't stay 24/7 online and collect those resources, so he'll be very likely to quit seeing that it's hard (and alot harder than it was for us, the players that now have a jump-start in mining, wc etc). it's very hard to be skiller because he has access harder to resources, to be pk-er (needs lots of cash for that too). if you look at the last question in the rs pool you can see how many players want to be better than someone else: more than 62% (at the time of this writing). what good is being better than someone if you just buy all? what good is for 15+% of rs (according to the same official pool) to be one of the best if alongside of you are loads of bots? it spoils alot of the feeling of accomplishment. hi, Rebdragon. because it cuts new players 95% off their sources of income. but there are going to be way fewer new players because they are going to be put off by the hardships above mentioned. this will lead in time to the end of this game because players will also leave, and without constant flow of new legitimate players, it will become haven for macroers and real time traders. Solidus_77, there is a "cost for living". if you really want something good, you have to pay for it: food to heal, raw materials, repair barrows, recharge crystal (shield, because i don't know why would someone recharge crystal bow since dark bow is better). other costs too, like buying from shops things players can't be bothered to sell (or are untradeble). yea? would you still buy my flax at 100 ea? or you would not talk to me unless i offer 60 or less? ok... i hope you rethink this when you try to cut yews/mine coal :( the difference is that it's alot harder now for players that play for short periods of time or just started recently i hope you remember this next time when you want to repair your barrows/recharge crystal item/buy food for pk Halo_2_4_U the new players still need a way to make that cash to buy those things, but their places have been overrun by macroers :( ouch! raylifes rofl i think it's very bad swordb88 there are some people that want to do those jobs. and those people are ruined. i had a player BEGGING me to buy p ess from him. i did not need it at that moment, so i declined. i think there is an inflation, but one of raw materials. brave my point of view 100%. thank you. 1alebcay there are no robots in real world that mine raw materials 24/7, leaving people without skills jobless. (nature runes can't go that up, because there are quest shops that sell them for 300 coins max ea rune scimmy won't be sold for less than 10k because it hi-alches for 15k)

to report more than 1 player ingame (for any reason) you have to wait 1 minute between reports. there is a way to report more than 1 player. read the last post here yes sadly there are way too many players that (i think they) are bots. report them? i tried that. but i think it's already beyond needing reported. anyone walking in members in lumby forest, or draynor, or south fally, even in catherby yews/flax is bound to see some (many) lvl 3 combat player that just cuts yews/picks flax for a looong time. what to report then? hey, jagex, check out lumby forest, draynor and catherby in all worlds, you are bound to find at least 10 in each world in each of those places!

the way i see it, each part sees the other as "evil". the way i see both parts: none of each part can see a bad thing about what he is defending (like i do :lol:). but that's just me :P "Play for fun, not your ego." sadly most of our real life i (i would say we, but...) cannot do much for my ego. in this game noone can tell me to cut that tree or not to cut it, to mine that rock or not. i play for my ego :D "Actually, I don't respect levels, period." i try to respect levels (except one higher combat lvl guy that called me noob because i gave him an advice and he considered he knew better than me :evil: ) because otherwise i can have no real measurement of the quality of the advices/suggestions the player gives me. but that's just me "See, the thing is that not everyone is like you or other dedicated players." oh... thank you, i see your point. i'm dropping the argument. happy 'scaping

Rebdragon, "-you haven't yet had someone make a ton of your work meaningless, alot of time spent on something that just went down the trash up untill now, did you? then you have no idea what it feels like. if you do, then you know what i mean" my bad, i thought it was implied that i was referring to real world... i mean like make a big nice novel, or a painture or w/e that you were proud of, that took you tons of time and effort, and someone came and done/said somethig and destroyed what you have done/made it look meaningless in your own eyes. "If this ruins your fun, youÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re probably playing the wrong game. " the second anyone can just buy rs cash with real cash (and jagex approves this on all servers) i will agree with you on this one :) "I repeat: Way to stereotype. Maybe, just maybeÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ they play for fun too? " setting goals and reaching them yourself is the fun. setting goals and reaching them 5 minutes later... sorry, i missed the "play" part... where does the "play" part stick in that sentence anyway? you played. ok. jagex agees with real world blah-blah. ok. you suddenly meet 10+ times more people with barrage. you are no longer an elite, one of the few. "Your point being? If a RWITer wants to spend the money to get ahead, even if it means not gaining full knowledge in the game, thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s his problem, not mine. Heck, you could call it justice if you want to. YouÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re practically supporting RWIT by saying that." those were things you need to learn if you want to understand how to play runescape and skip (some of) the "grinding". there is loads to learn about rs. "That ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅusuallyÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ