estarayella

in reply to yanksrule things may be monotonous, but they dont have to be tedious. just because you do the same thing over and over again doesnt mean that it must be a boring chore. i mean, when it comes down to it, all you do in runescape is click a mouse, over and over and over. but you enjoy clicking that mouse, you enjoy the stuff that you do in game because you clicked the mouse.... vÃÆÃâÃâóila! a monotonous yet enjoyable task! if you find something tedious to do in, my opinion, you shouldnt be doing it. admittedly, you cant apply this to many things in rl, there's stuff you simply have to do wether you enjoy it or not, but in game.... d it for fun, not for the levels.

so nice to hear from the editor again! nice article with very good points. my goals are to hit 99 theiving ( 78/99) and 99 herblore (57/99... long way to go) BEFORE i hit level 80 combat (currently 79 :-k ) in reply to yanksrule... i think you may have missed some of the artice's point. The editor is not saying that we should not have goals, s/he even goes so far as to say that having goals is a good thing. the point of the article was that we shouldnt get so wrapped up in our goals that we dont enjoy what we are doing anymore.

Tbfgraphx14, you say "The reason, that Jagex states why they will not allow players under 13 is for such things as sliding puzzles and harder quests like they stated. Just thought I would let everyone who didn't know, know. " however, according to the T&C is because " Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online." they are just covering their own backs. I still think people are confusing maturity with level to be honest. i've had people call me an immature noob, but im level 79, been playing for 2 years and im 20 in real life. i dont believe i am immature, but people assume i am because im not such a high level, or because i dont know something they think i should. in a situation such as that, i personally believe the immaturity is coming from the other player, wether he is level 3 or 126, and regardless of rl age. The warnings are there because people break the rules. if there was no luring of new players, there would not have to be a ditch and warning in the wild, or in shantay pass, or morytania. what people forget is the fact that its not the new players fault that they were scammed/lured etc. it is the fault of the people breaking the rules, and so jagex has HAD to put these measures in place to combat the rule breakers. besides if you hate the warning so much, why dont you just go and see the Dommsayer in Lumbridge and turn them off? i dont in any way believe that miniclip lowered the maturity of the players coming into runescape, just that you will see the immature ones more in f2p, its a smaller area, everyones stuffed into a few places. i dont think Jagex is money hungry, because the people prankster_king is referring to are on f2p.... jagex dont get membership fees from them, so why would they cater the game to them?? its just not good business sense! i fail to see how jagex is catering the game to more immature players. Stronghold of security? very good way to teach new players to avoid rule breakers. warning signs? ditto. Again these deal with inexperience rather than immaturity. Ack! major post, sorry!

malo, how many times do i have to say it? if you want to value a set of pixels called a dchain go for it, i couldnt care less. i dont value it very much(edited to say i dont value it much), that is all i have been saying, and i dont understand why you would, but that is because they are just coloured dots to me, nothing more i play runescape not for the levels, but for the enjoyment i get of being able to do something with my friends who are too far away for me to see on a regular basis. my levels come from playing for almost 2 years, not from level grinding. and i think my degree in lingustics would tell you that i do understand basic concept and language, though of course you may decide that a university degree is worth nothing, my tutors would disagree, and it is their opinion of my lingustical talent that matters

im debating this topic because i feel very strongly about it, im accusing you of claiming i have no comman sense, which i find insulting. insulting someone is not returning and argument as you put it, it is simple being insulting, so again i ask you to please stop. as for your comment about money, obviously i do have the money for runescape, as i play as a member, all that comment shows is that you didnt understand the point i was making. money and pixels are worthless. but the entertainment, or the stuff you get out of it (a car for example), thats wirth something, in my opinion. i couldnt care less about the pixels and the stupid pieces of cotton people put so much value on. what i care about is being happy at the end of it. if having a little group of pixels called a dchain makes you happy, go for it. if you want 100 pieces of dyed cotton, go for it. personally, i prefer to have something that means something, like the feeling of being entertained, or the knowledge that i can go anywhere i want because i own that car.

malo, again as i did on the letters to the editor thread i must ask you to refrain from personal insults. it may not make sense to you, but it is my opinion and i am entitled to it.

unleasher, does a penny have any value? yes it does, its just very small. its still only a penny though. do pixels have value? yes, they provide entertainment. they are still only pixels though. they cant save lives, or feed people, or clothe them. they are just pixels. i guess an easy way to explain it is with noted money. a ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã50 note. whats it worth? nothing, absolutely nothing. its just a piece of dyed woven cotton. its worthless. but with that pice of cotton, you could buy someone food to stop them starving. with lots of those pieces of cotton, you could set up an entire education system for thousands of children, and house hundreds of homelss people. but its what you can get out of it thats worthwhile, and worth something, not the piece of cotton itself. pixels are the same. they are worthless. they are just little coloured dots on a screen. but you use them to bring yourself entertainment, or happiness. the happiness is worth lots, the entertainment is worth lots.... but the little coloured dots on the screen, they are still worthless.

malo yes i have a job, and im here because i use runescape as a form of entertainment. by toys, i mean anything that provides entertainment, for example, computers, cars, dvd's, games consoles. would you rather have a dchain or a ferrari enzo?, a party hat, or the worlds best games console? full third age or the books that you've been wanting for years? do the pixels really compare to that?

unleasher i never said they have no value, i said they have little value. my arguement is that they have less value than real life. perhaps an easy way to explain it is that in the same way as runescape is only pixels, money is only paper. by itself, its worth nothing, its what you can get with it that makes is worthwhile. ow with money, you can buy food, and clothes, toys, pets ect so on so forth. you can make other people ans youself happy, in a materialist way. runescape pixels wont do that. yes they can make others happy, but its not something you can touch or taste or smell and for me that means they are worth very little.

ok here we go, THEY ARE ONLY PIXELS! yes you put your time and effort into them, and if you lose your rs items i will sympathize with you (unless you are an abyss pker picking on the rcers, then you deserve it). i will not sympathize with beggars. having said that they are only pixels in the grand scheme of things. they wont feed you or your family, or keep you warm with a roof over your head, you cant curl up with your virtual cat when you are feeling down, or go out and fish your own food to eat in real life (not where i live anyways). runescape is virtual. it is not real, and has no use in everyday life other than a small measure of entertainment. If pixels make you happy, go for it, im not gonna rant at you, but remember at the end of the day they are just pixels, you cant take it with you anywhere in real life.

frogbercm~"its scamming because thay changed from what thay were going to put so you accepted cuz it says 2m not 200k then thay switch it" theres so many other ways to scam people... passing of red boots and gloves as dragon, telling people to pick nettles with no gloves on, getting them killed by poison on karamja, offering to charge glories/trim armour then running off with it, to name but a few.

blaze, just to clarify ~ "if you really believe that luring a dog or scamming someone is a "small, fleeting thing", then why would you try to compare that to rape? " i dont believe that, but to the scammer, who scamms hundreds of sets of full rune, your one set is completely insignificant. to the person luring the dog, what they have done is not a big deal, they find it amusing, but to the dog, its a pretty big deal, bing as how it lost its life. ditto the girl who was raped. to the rapist, actually i dont know why rapists do it, i will never understand them, but i believe that its not a big deal to them, whereas to the girl, its life changing,(does that make more sense?). other than that Blaze, nice points, although i would say that i believe i use my morals to make my choices, and try not to ignore them, but i guess thats a different for everyone and not everyone sees that like i do. Unleasher~ "Well, it isn't all his fault if the raped person was somehow stupid or ignorant to cause it." i hope you never ever go into law, because its that kind of thinking that allows criminals to get off with ridiculously small sentances, or even without custodial time, and allows them to stay free in this world. there was a story in the news just this week. a year old girl got raped twice in a park. the man admitted doing it. but because it turns out that UNDER her everyday clothes she wore frilly underwear and "looked 16" the man got 4 months. he could be out in 2. how can you even say that the 10 yea old was stupid enough to cause that?? was she so ignorant that she didnt realize that some strange man would come up rip off her clothes and rape her?? was she stupid for wearing underwear that was UNDER her clothes??? perhaps, but lets face it, he was the criminal, he should not of one it, and if he wasnt there, it wouldnt have mattered what she wore. she created the circumstance of being in the park, but he raped her, and he is the one who should take the blame. (in case anyone is interested, that judge is being asked to leave the practice of law)

johnny ~ you say "Maybe lots of people do macro or scam, but it is ILLEGAL (Within the context of the game when done in-game)." again completely true, but for some reason not enough of a reason for some of the players here, i simply dont understand it personally.

blaze again you make a very good point, but, im still going to go with the scammer is as heartless as the person luring the dog. why else would you break the rules for so little gain? some people find amusement in luring that dog, that is what they gain from it, its a small fleeting thing, just like the scammer get the gold or items. to a serial scammer, your full rune that you wanted trimmed ( insert item/gold here) is worth nothing to them, because they scam lots of people everyday, they may end up with hundreds of sets of rune. as to your comment "Society and the choices that people think are available to them makes a person." well yes to a point, society often gives us these choices, but at the end if the day, we make them on what we see as right and wrong (our morals). the man could rape her, or he could not rape her. he doesnt have the morals that say "rape is bad" so he rapes her. yes it is the eventual choice that makes him do it, but it is his morals that decide which path he takes. however, in real life, i believe there may be an exception to my belief that criminals are heartless. the man who robs a bank because his family are starving...... the man who murders the person threatening his wife. yes these things are still wrong, but they are done for the right reasons. these people arent heartless, they are desperate. unfortunately, what with runescape items and gold being pixels, being that desperate about it is completely unnecessary, it is at the end of the day just a game, not a case of life or death.

in response to berbatovsky why should i not drink, simply because chance made me female? because i cant drink as much as a man before getting drunk??? well, sorry, but i cant eat as much as a man before i get sick, does that mean i shouldnt eat either??? in my eyes, NO. it just means i need to be more aware of my limits, and know that i drink less than a man, and i eat less than a man, not that i shouldnt eat or drink at all

blaze, i have to commend you, i know i can be very..... myopic or short sighted about this things, my personal experiences make me very unforgiving, and i find it hard to see stuff like this from the other side. in response to your question about taking advantage of others, all i can say is personally i find it wrong. there are degrees to this however. if you are faster than someone, do i think you should not try to win the race? no, i think you should use the advantage you have, with a few exceptions ( such as a teacher coming second for a race to encourage their student) however, using your intellegence to decieve others, or your experiences in game to decieve, as you do in scamming are completely morally wrong as far as i am concerned. (here i go with another extreme example) you know the driver of the car coming round the corner will swerve to hit any dogs in the road. you lead a dog into the road. the driver swerves and hits the dog. the dog dies. you used your "intellegence" to engineer the death of the dog. does that mean there was nothing wrong with you killing the dog? again, in my opinion only, that is completely morally wrong. other people may differ on this. i think morals make a person who they are, and while i know that a utopia does not exist, i do believe that the world we live in, and the worlds we have online, can be better places, if people decide not to decieve others, and instead think a little more about other people

berbatovsky, that may be true, i dont know about the date rape statistics, in my case that wasnt true, although it wouldnt suprise me, however i wasnt talking about date rape, just rape in general. regardless of this fact, i agree with you, many people who say they have been scammed are actually beggers, and trying to find the difference between the two is ridiculously hard.

actually unleasher, it has happened to me, its not just an example. and getting drunk, as in so drunk you cant walk, then yes, but after 1 drink our reactions are impaired, hence why that is the drink drive limit in the uk. do you think that she was asking for it if she only had 1 drink? because that could have been enough to stop her getting away. also i fail to see how defending the victim of a crime "makes you vomit a little", are you really that unfeeling?

this is exactly why i chose that example, it a very harsh real life crime.by itself it doesnt mean anything in relation to runescape, but consider this.... runescape doesnt have rape. or mugging... instead it has scamming and macroing and hacking. these are the rape and mugging equivalents in runescape, in my opinion, and are therefore in my eyes, equally abhorrent.

again i must ask you to refrain from implying i am "high". also, i did read your post, i believe you said "getting scammed is something extremely avoidable" those were my reasons as to why its not, in my opinion. you also say "If a girl gets drunk, and get dressed in a certain way. she obviously took the steps that lead to getting raped." perhaps you may believe this, i do not. you seem to believe that she was asking for it just because of the way she was dressed and acting, i disagree. no the man did not make her get drunk, or dress that way, but he did take advantage of her, she was not asking for him to rape her, was she? in the same way, you seem to believe that people who (for example) are asking how they get trimmed armour are asking to be scammed. again, i completely disagree with this, and i find that way of thinking abhorrent. if you chose to think that way, that is merely your opinion. perhaps my analogies make no sense, so let me spell it out to you. you (for example) tell someone to kill a tribesman. they get poisoned. you wait for them to die. you take their stuff. a man says can you help me find my wallet i've dropped it somewhere. you go to help him look. you turn your back on him. he stabs you. you die. one example is just a more extreme example of the same situation. you blame the person who got killed by tribesmen for not knowing they are poisonous, so will you also blame the person who thought they were helping that man out, just because they didnt know he had a knife?

killer, i see your point, but it seems i havent made mine very well with that particular example. that example was intended to be used not in regards to the "trade window" scam, but to the sweeping comment that stupidity causes scammers and that "their[ the victims] completely stupid actions" caused it to happen. take for exaple, an easy scam ( because we must remember that not all scams happen in trades or the wild). tribesmen on karamja. new member explores karamja, because its also a f2p place. sees new part of island. sees high level member asks for a help/ a good place to train. high level member ( knowing this is new member with no antipoison) "sure try tribesmen" new member attacks tribesman.new member gets poisoned. new member dies..... high level gains all their items. is the new member to blame? yes, insofar as trusting another player makes you to blame. they didnt know about poison, they didnt ask to be "lured" (which to me all comes under rule 2). the person to blame is the high leveled member who knowingly sent him there. ditto someone who has no idea about clue scrolls being caught in the armour trimming scam. to people who have been playing years, these are obvious, but to new members, or even some older members who pure train skills who dont know about these things, are they to blame?? in my eyes the answer is no, others may differ

in response to malo2 sure its extremely avoidable... unles you are a new member, or a new player, or maybe, you know, you dont know about every single facet of the game! how many people know nettles are poisonous? that you must wear gloves to pick them? how many new members know that red gloves and boots arent dragon? i refuse to believe that a girl takes any blame for her rape if it happens to her, and, having been through the experience, and the councelling that followed, i can tell you i believe that while i may have created the circumstances by being that drunk, and dressed to go out, that in NO WAY means that he should have done it, and i will not take ANY of the lame for his crime. these analogies may be horrible, but if we take the way of thinking that you have suggested, this is where we end up, people who think nothing of taking advantage of people in game will have no qualms about doing it in real life. as for walking into the wilderness, i never said anything about that, you can be scammed any time, anywhere if you arent constantly on alert, and being human, and not a machine, i dont think thats possible. i would also kindly ask you to refrain from talking about my "crack pipe" since 1) it doesnt exist, and 2) i find it offensive.

i am quite frankly appalled at the letters this week. yes stupidity is a factor occaisionally, but so is ignorance and forgetfulness. sometimes you simply forget to check the second trade screen, no ones perfect, but according to those letters the victims are to blame because they forgot? because they are only human? if a newbie honestly doesnt know how you get trimmed armour and falls for the trimming scam, its their fault for not checking up on fansites( which i may remind you jagex warns us against because of viruses keyloggers etc)? i cannot believe that anyone would ever say that a girl who got raped was to blame for being drunk while out clubbing. yes she was stupid to get that drunk, and ignorant to believe it wouldnt happen to her, but that doesn't give the scumbag who rapes her any justification for doing it. yes, its an extreme example, but its true. just becase someone rushes through a trade doesnt mean they are to blame for being scammed, the only person you should be blaming is the creep who is scamming in the first place! should we allow criminals to run riot in the real world simply because the victim didnt know they could get murdered in that part of town?? i dont think so. i know people will respond to this and say that the real world has nothing to do with runescape, but all i have to say to them is this..... why leave your morals behind on a game? the people on the game are real people too, just because you cant see them doesnt make that any less true, think about that.

my thing has always been clothes, i have like 16 rows of bank space being taken up by random robes from canafis and the gnome people, plus boots, capes and gloves to match... im now starting on the hats. its all started with blue and black wizard robes when i was in f2p :P

too jumpy for my liking. some good points in the article, but in my eyes they dont tie together well enough. i agree with the point earlier, it seems very much like stream of consciousness, and comes across as very incoherent. that said, rules are there to be followed, not broken, and the day jagex allows realworld trading is the day i quit. i cant stop it happenning, but jagex can slow it down. i earned the money i have. i earned the levels i have. im working on my theiving at the moment (74/99 whooo!!!) and when i hit 99 i will know that i got there by myself. i earned it. of course i could get a friend to do it, but its not my theiving then is it? its someone elses. in response to the realworld trading article by duke_freedom, "However, RWIT being against the rules does not mean it is actually morally wrong itself" i have to disagree.in life you work for things, and you learn by doing things yourself. how can you ever really understand the value of money until you've earnt it through your own hard work and sweat? runescape, in this case is no different. i would not give a child a million pounds in real life because they would end up with no concept of value, money, and they wouldnt feel the satisfaction that any achievement brings. runescape is the same. ok so you just spent ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã20 to buy the rs gold to get a dchain. congratulations. but you didnt earn it, you have no idea what that money is worth, as those of us who work for it do, and in my opinion, you dont deserve that chain, or any of the money you bought.