Einsteven

Agreed. Like I said, internet use, not censorship, is the root of poor grammar and overall english. How many times have one seen "lol", or "i" not capitalized? Or "e" in English not capitalized for that matter. How many times have you seen slangs or short forms, sentences missing nouns or verbs, etc etc. And how much of that is as a result of poor censorship on Runescape? (How many times have you seen sentences start with and?) The answer is probably close to none. If you're going to tackle grammar, Internet as a whole is at fault, not Runescape. I don't even think the censorship has any effect on the players for that matter, other then mild nuance.

I personally find this topic as useful of a debate as the philosophical idea of solipsism, as the debate will go no where, since it is impossible to ban autoers (people are smart, Jagex is a team of a few... hundred? vs. a team tens of thousands of rule breakers). However, for the sake of arguing, i want a go at this. First of, I find it a horrible idea to link immigrants to autoers. I'm an immigrant, and i find it offensive that you think i break the law and deflate the economy! I'd rather think of autoers as all the criminals in this world, the gangsters, mobsters, robbers, theives, etc. They exploit and unbalance economy for their personal gain. They obtain resources illegally and sell them off at high amounts for high profits. I'd like to elaborate on Jake's point: Say at first, there were 100 fishers, fishing lobsters. They produce... say 1million lobsters a month. Now, as it works, economy will achieve an equilibrium, so that there isn't a great surplus of 1million lobsters in the market. Instead, to generate the demand of 1mill, there must be... say 1000 fighters. At this rate, prices stablilize and economy is nice and healthy. Hower, now lets say, one day 10 of the 100 fishers start macros, and now the production of lobsters become 2million a month (macros make a lot). At one point, supply is more then demand, and price crash. However, since people see that prices have dropped, more people can afford to fight and so there ends up being 2000 fighters. The market stablize again, at maybe a lower cost for lobsters, but still stabilizes. It is still a healthy economy if the number of bots stay at a near constant, as the prices won't crash. However, currently, this is not the case. Just the other day, I saw 10 macroers from the same user fishing lobs. A few years ago, there probably wasn't that many. Macro amounts are growing exponentially, and the demand of the products cannot keep up with the supply. It isn't that I feel Jagex MUST eliminate all autoers, cause really, it won't make much of a difference, all prices go up, and so you aren't "earning" more money persey, but that they must curfew the growth of the number of macroers. Otherwise the market will crash, and while it will recover sooner or later, it might be to late at that time.

The thing is.... how many people do you see on a game with minimal or no sensors, speak in perfect grammer? Better yet, how many people on this forum do you see using perfect grammer? (i'm pretty sure I don't, cause i'm horrible at grammer). The point is, grammer, even in day to day life, can often be overlooked. On top of that, when you're typing in a game, trying to save time (as typing does occupy two of the hands you use to click), it's easy to not care about spelling (hence the birth of leet) let alone grammer. Who honestly expects to use his or her own brain when playing a game, and who honestly believes he or she can learn prober grammer ingame? I sure don't, and I hope no many others do... :anxious: I agree, the censors need serious retuning, not so much to block out swearing (as that can still be done in obscured ways) but so that normal words are not blocked. However, changing it for the sake of grammer is not a reason.

That's wrong. The graph of the number of rares isn't a line. As long as one person decides to hold a rare, whether it be in a retired bank or the hands an active user, rares won't completely die out. You're right, its not a line, its an exponential curve. The amount of phats disappearing when it all first came out was probably pretty high, since some people thought it was useless piece of junk. Then, when people became smarter, less people dropped them. Others, began to see profit, and started banking/hording them, so there became less and less availability on the market. Then, more and more horders quit rs (still a very low amount) or got banned, and people started dropping and high alching them, and so even to this day, the y value is still decreasing. However, while the asymptote does exist in an exponential graph (at 0), it is not feasible to have 0.1 of a phat, so obviously, theres bound to be a time when these things disapear completely and become a legend. OR the jagex GM's kept one of them...

I see no pro in this, only cons. 1) there will be heavy inflation of intermediate items, such as iron, steel and mith armour, as there is less people selling them (more people reusing them), which makes it hard for newbies to buy them. 2) There will be a mass deflation of top model items, such as rune weapons and armours, as more people reach this level quickly. 3) Encourages macroing. Overall, it'll throw the runescape economic system into mad spread chaos.

Clan name: Triple R Clan website: Triple R Clan leaders: arrows_35, Einsteven, Larxene777, olivar_ct, Unrealevil F2p clan cape: F2P Purple P2p clan cape: F2P Purple Number of Members: 64 Average hitpoint and combat level: Average combat level is around 85. The average hitpoints vary. Type of clan (skill or pk): Both, but more PK-ing based Recent War Record(3): Triple R does NOT participate in wars, due to original constitution. PKing trips are normally successful however, with an average of 10 member attendance (up to 25), and around 3-5 kills on average.

I know this is not completely related to the topic, and that I've posted this else where, but here's my 2 cents, gp or what ever on the situation. Rangers in F2P's are in my opinion the worst set of combat skills compared to melee and magic. In comparison, F2P rangers are completely disadvantaged by the lack of ability to train the skill up. Melee armour and weapons (all of them) can be made by F2P players, severely reducing the cost of these things. As well, they are more of a one shot/lump sum spending, where you spend 200k and you buy a set of full runes, and don't have to buy them again. In terms of food and strength pots, which are the melee player's consumable equipments, one can make them as well as a F2P's or, in the case of strength pots, made for 5gp and 2 relatively easy to obtain raw material. Mages are at a slight disadvantage compared to melee fighters, since they have no advanced armours that F2P's can obtain. However, compared to rangers, they can make the most elementary runes easily for training, and therefore, they can train for free. As well, since melee combating is the most popular form of combat in the wilderness, mages are also at the advantage in the wilderness in terms of easy "bind" "death rune attack" "kill" "reap in loot" cycle that allows them to earn money, in comparison, at ease, and therefore, not worry about lacking money to buy more supplies. Now focusing on archers, we see that it costs immensely to train. At early stages, one can use the crossbow at a cost of 1gp per bolt, but that only does so much. If people were to use more advanced arrows to train, the prices rapidly increase, with bronze arrows at a cost of 6gp each, and iron at 20 - 40gp each. Compare that cost with the free fire strikes. As well, rangers are a tough combat type to pk with. They have lower defence then melee combat, and they are only strong against mages and other rangers. But in comparison, there lacks a high amount of mages in the wilderness, resulting in less successful pking trips. Needless to mention, rangers lack the actual ranging as they almost always fight in close combat, resulting in their heavy need for food (lower defence means more food consumption as well). Also, seeing as how mages normally don't carry a great deal of runes while pking (a 100 death and nats at most?), the rewards aren't great. Finally, in pointing out the obvious, rangers in comparison with mages and melee's, are seriously under powered. Adament arrows, which might I add are hell expensive and breakable, do not do as much damage at say level 70, as a fire blast at level 59 (12 damage and 16 damage respectively, no prayers). A level 70 combat with 50+ strength level can do 15 minimum with a rune battle axe. In conclusion, what is my point? Well, you wanted opinions on rangers. I find that they are under "funded" by Jagex, and this lack of attention leads to an unbalance in the F2P world. It is almost impossible to start of as a ranger, since one almost MUST have a few friends around that are either members and can fletch arrows for a lower price, good melee fighters to protect them in the wildy, and have a constant flow of cash. I suggest, to balance this, F2P's should be allowed to craft the most primary (bronze, iron) arrows, OR offered a wider variety of weapons (more then just the bronze crossbow) and/or armour, OR be given a place to train for a lower cost. Notice i emphasize "OR". I have no intention of making this a "should F2P's have updates" debate, i simply state some possibilities of making rangers a more appealing class to pk as.

I'm not sure at all how this disproves my valuation of Runescape advertisements. Obviously it's a good investment for the advertisers, else they wouldn't be doing it. I was trying to put the point across that if a child site is successful with ads (children who have absolutely no control of money), then obviously ads on runescape, where there are more kids who work part time, would be just as successful.

Your point makes sense to me, and I don't see any new arguments around it. However, I stand by the fact that a top banner ad costs decent amount of money in the Advertising market. *Update* Wait, I do have something to prove otherwise. Neopets.com. A very successful CHILDREN site for those who never heard of it. I believe it was originally intended for college students with too much time on their hands, but now its mostly children oriented, with children ads on them. I understand there are probably some kids on that site who can get anything they want from their parents, but i don't believe that represents the majority of the population. (not everyone grows up spoiled) Also, Mayjest, putting my own opinion out bluntly: I don't believe F2P's should get a lot of updates either. Not much really. But I think there are some serious imbalances in the F2P worlds that Jagex is ignoring to attend to that makes the game unattractive to play for some people. As I have mentioned before, rangers are unpopular in the F2P world because they are not allowed to make any of their semi-reusable resources to help them train, while melee-ers can make everything they need (yes, in a long time, but still helps). As well, as you said, they could be putting out a few small bits of some skills for F2P's to be hooked onto, so that they will want to improve it by joining the P2P's.

Okay, this is actually beginning to scare me. I read about a month ago in Rule 1 that starred out words are not reportable. However, this topic prompted me to try and quote those words.... and will you look at that, its not there anymore! The rule, as stated on the page, says it was changed on January 16. Did they remove that point and so now starred out words ARE offensive?

Nadril, isn't that lure a bit.... pathetically simple? I wouldn't know, because i never been lured before, but if that was what people fall for, then yes, it is perfectly acceptable. Kinda like the credit card scam "Give me your credit card number and I'll get you a few million dollars I have taken from Africa!" I personally don't have much opinion on whether this is acceptable or not. I see it both ways. I believe luring newbies to the game shouldn't be allowed, but then again, who wants to lure a newbie with bronze sword and wooden shield? o.O However, if you do fall for a lure like the one Nadril said, then ya, its plain stupid of you, and you should learn next time.

Yes ofcourse there are ads that are pay-per-click. However, in comparison with Google ads which are extremely simple none graphical ads that promote illegal things half the time, ads on Runescape are incomparably better. Its all a matter of quality and the amount of viewers that determine the value of an ad right? Infact, aside from pop up ads, and ads that take up a whole page (like the ones where you have to click a link to get past the "this site is sponsored by" page), a banner ad like the one Jagex has on Runescape is definitely top notched. If these ads don't receive high values on the market, half the sites out there won't last. I have to agree with you when you say Jagex doesn't get money if you used adblock, but its hard to define what a "lot" of people are. I personally don't believe there are a lot of people who block those ads, based one a few things: 1) A great number of people playing on RS are young kids who do not know what Adblocks are, or do not know how to use them. 2) With things like switchswift that now has ads displayed, people who use to have ads blocked on SS now have to have them displayed. 3) There are always those law-abiders 4) Take a look at Firefox's best adblocker download count. 3mill? Not a lot... I know it doesn't give you a big picture, but it just shows not a great deal of people use it... Finally, you're last point. Keep in mind my wording. I was attacking the fact that someone believed in total, P2P's make more money then F2P's. Needless to say, individual wise, F2P's make less money then P2P's. If i was given the choice of 2.5million F2P users or 1.8 million P2P users generating the same amount of money, i'd choose P2Ps, reduce the server load right? :wink:

But I've proven otherwise with my calculations. 8 mill over 4mill. Nope. Well, I'm basing my hypothesis on what I know of Invisionfree forums, which, as I've mentioned before, are of lower viewers then Runescape. Think of it like a tv commercial. A company still has to pays the stations money even if no one phones in about the product. Advertising always runs the risk of failing, but you pay just for the chance of success.

A few things I want to point out. The first post on this thread has horrible logic. Where does everyone get the idea that Jagex receives more money from Members then ads in total? The post then goes on to prove the statement with calculations based on the statement, and hence, circular logic. I on the other hand, have proof that F2P's in total generate more money then P2Ps, here's my calculations: An Invisionfree forum receives $0.15 per 1000 ad views. This is the rate for an Invisionfree forum, which gets around 300k page views in two years (I'm basing it on my forum, some forums have more views, others have less, so it evens out). Now, Jagex recieves about that many page views in what, a few hours? So lets hypothesis that the rate is $0.01 per page view (probably way more, but still). Now, on average, there are about 150k users online in the game at all times, and out of this, lets say a very unlikely 50k users are P2P. Therefore, 100k F2P users are on at all times (average again), which means 100k ad views at all times. Now the ads refresh at a rate of once every 5 minutes, or basically 288 refreshes a day. Thats 28 800 000 ad refreshes in total a day, which generates $288 000 a day! The grand total for a month would be a wooping $8 640 000 in a 30 day month; double the amount paid by 900k P2P users. Therefore, that point falls, because F2P users obviously in general, generate more revenue then P2P users. As well, keep in mind, I used a rate of 1cent per ad view... the rate is almost definitely higher then that. Whoever thinks that a company can't live off of ad revenues isn't that intelligent. As people have said, YouTube does it. So does invisionfree, Yahoo search engine and Google search engine. Theres tonnes of examples out there that show ads do pay. As well, some have mentioned that Jagex will stop focusing on P2P's if F2P's started getting updates. Thats a preposterous idea. It's not like F2P's don't get any updates, we just get the stupid updates that doesn't help anyone other then the newbies *cough*all those guides at lumby*cough*. If they stopped focusing so much on improving the newbies gaming experience and focused on the actual F2P players, then things will be better. My take on this topic, I don't think F2P's should get a lot of updates. But some things are definitely in need of updating, at least to balance out the game in the F2P world, i.e. fletching for F2Pers so that rangers don't get the shorter end of the straw (everyone but rangers get to make their own supplies). Also, maybe allow us to use the skill capes.... cause we can get to level 99 too....