Louisc111

Utter rubbish. Dungeoneering is a quest. You have to interact with NPCs, kill boss monsters, solve puzzles and use all your skills to overcome obstacles. It even has specific skill requirements in each dungeon and you have to make special items that can't be used in the rest of RS. Quod Erat Doofustradum. Also, Dungeoneering is a kumquat. Parts of it are round and orange and make me think of fruit. I have thousands of people who agree with that, they just seem to be elsewhere right now. I wonder if the point of this mockery will get through?

Credit where credit is due, those are not bad ideas, a bit overpowered in one or two instances perhaps, but not bad. As a general point this is a good extension to Dungeoneering. See what constructive effort brings? However, did you really have to frame it as a No True Scotsman? We have a *real* dungeoneering skill, it's the one we've got. No one is saying that it's perfect or that there's no room for potential improvement. You do realise that in disagreeing with you insisting your opinions are facts, it doesn't follow that people have no time for positive, constructive contributions?

Technically that isn't that true. Some doors can't be accessed if your skill isn't high enough like 104 rc. :blink: But you can always finish the dungeon to reach the boss and complete the floor. Who cares if you miss a small percentage of bonus exp? I'm doing this skill on a new pure with no skills who has levelled a little bit along the way because of shared exp. However dung doesn't require skills it just requires you to combat melle or range. I can rc mind runes if needed for the final boss. I can cook fish I buy from the smuggler. That's about all the skill that is required and only if I am soloing a floor. I meant that it's slightly more than a relatively mindless point and click skill like firemaking (for example). Which should have been clear from the context.

Whoa whoa whoa! Are you calling my mummy a liar? ;-)

[sNIP] Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;) Translation: I can't understand it. I can't refute it. Therefore I will belittle it. Cowardice noted.

Yeah sorry. I'm stuck at home with a sick kid (don't worry, he'll get better) so my tolerance level might be a weeeeeeeeeensy bit lower than normal. I am also cursed with SIWOTI* syndrome, I just thought a disagreement might be needed. *Someone is wrong on the internet. The internet: it's serious, people. ;-)

Two further observations, invitations to kiss your donkey as a manner to avoid/dissuade argument, which is clearly what you are doing, is pathetic. I understand that you are an adult. Utterly shameful. If my ten month old kid behaved that petulantly I'd cut him up and feed him to pigs. (Ok not really, but I watched the movie Snatch recently, and that amused me). This game has a large number of kids playing it and this forum has a not insignificant number of young posters on it, you attempting to bully people into silence is utterly pathetic. Do better and do better fast. Also this: And referring to the Emperor's New Clothes betrays such a lack of basic comprehension and unwarranted arrogance I can only gaze on in awe. Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect. First, Jagex are not the creators of hamburgers or turnips, they are not in a position to define either object in any manner seeing as both objects are defined by criteria not in Jagex's control. Jagex are the creators of RS and as such have the intellectual right to call whatever objects/features that appear in their game whatever they like. Second, the semantic quibbling over minigame/skill is, as noted above ironic since this is the first skill in RS that actually requires some skill to train. Not much I grant, but a non-zero amont. Whether or not this skill has features of a minigame or not, it equally has features of a skill. If, and I am by no means conceding anything by saying this, Jagex have expanded what a skill in RS is then that is their right as owners of the intellectual property that is RS. Your comparison fails on that basis alone. You are not comparing like with like. Third, to arrogantly pre-dismiss any who might differ with your frequently stated opinions as being somehow in thrall to Jagex and unable to penetrate the veil of deception they have woven, a la Emperor's New Clothes, is more than pathetic. Especially seeing as the formation of a coherent. fact based, logical argument is clearly beyond you based on this effort, and many others. I suggest a massive dose of perspective. You are misusing the story. Fourth, the minigame that Dungeoneering most resembles is Stealing Creation, where novel instanced maps are created and designed to be solved in teams for maximum efficiency. In SC there is a) no earning of "internal" SC xp, B) no earning of "external" xp in other skills and c) no progressive content. Now, Dungeoneering has some features in common with SC, the instanced nature, the advantages of team efficiency and the reward for "tokens" aspect, all this is undeniable, however in Dungeoneering you have the earning of both internal and external xp and the earning of access to progressive content. Factors that determine every skill in RS. Dungeoneering also has a backstory and boss fights, both features of quests, and yet I don't see you calling it a quest! Just like Slayer, you can earn tokens to exchange for content. Just like slayer you have the earning of internal and external xp. Just like Construction it occurs in an instanced area. The list goes on. So those features at least aren't unique to mingames. Has Jagex expanded its definition of an RS skill with Dungeoneering , I think so yes, but the progressive nature and manner in which content is earned is the very hallmark of an RS skill. Either way, as said above, what *I* define it as is immaterial, the people who have created it call it one thing, it has many of the features of previous things they have called the same thing. This coupled to the progressive nature of the content and how xp is earned make it a skill, albeit a skill with other features. To make semantic quibbles over whether or not Dungeoneering (or anything) is X or Y is bad enough, to behave as if that quibble constitutes valid critique, a genuine flaw of Dungeoneering, or some matter of fact is simply feeble. Also, the "it's either A or B" type statements regarding skill or minigame are stupid and fall foul of essentialist thinking. In RS at least the definition of what a skill is is pretty broad to start with given the diversity we've got. Complaining about percieved limitations of current (largely unexplored) new content ignores the fact that there will very likely be future content of relevance. Modificationsof xp/drop/reward rates are definite possibilities if needed, but what most interests me is the scope this skill gives the game. Dungeoneering has definitely added more possibilities. Better quests, more instanced areas than Demonheim, other tie ins. Jagex has been pretty imaginative in the past with developing stuff, so I'm moderately hopeful. End of Part 2! Lastly, I see people like yourself and MHL whine endlessly about new content. When confronted about your whining you rush for the "critic's defense" (I don't have to be able to do something to critique it) or retreat to a "free speech" issue (it's my opinion I can express it if I like). I'll take the latter first. Of course you are entitled to express your opinion, go right ahead, I even encourage it. However, if you do, expect people to argue with you. Dismissing their arguments out of hand, simply ignoring them, pretending that opinions are facts, that all opinions are somehow equally valid, and failing to even bother to make a coherent case in your criticism are the hallmarks of a moron. Expect people to notice that and say so. As for the critic's defense, it's wrong. Utterly wrong. To be able to critique effectively you need to be able to understand something very well. To understand something very well you need to be able to at least do it competently. You're clearly capable of putting time and effort into a project, Truthscape/Runescoop didn't spring ex nihilo, then why not channel those energies more constructively? There are genuine issues like the mismatches between the knowledge base information and the in game to be solved, higlight those. You frequenrtly slam Jagex for what you claim (evidence free mostly) are its failings, and every item you don't like is claimed (rightly or wrongly) as a point in favour of this view. Usually it isn't. Rather than waste your valuable time and genius why don't you do something? Andrew Gower started RS from his parents' house with the help of his brother and a chum. He is now a mutlimillionaire and RS is one of the most successful online games. Surely with all the gaping flaws you see in RS, your incredible insight and computing abilities are being wasted. Why in just a few short years you too could be a multimillionaire. I'm not being sarcastic....well I'm not only being sarcastic. Stop telling people how wrong their ideas and products are, get off your duff and make something better. You are very fast to complain and tell people how they can do something better and yet I see nothing productive coming from you. By no means is this necessarily a problem, but it is indicative of the armchair critic. At the very least why not write up a coherent, fact based alternative to the flawed content you claim exists. The ability to create trumps the ability to complain every time. In reality all you are doing is making post hoc rationalisations of your dislike and disappointment. It's not clever, it's certainly not constructive and it's little more than infantile. Yeah, I know, TL;DR.

Oh sod it, I have fifteen minutes to spare, I can waste my time taking this splenetic nonsense to pieces: 1) Logically fallacious and subjective. Specifically a fallacy of equivocation. You are equivocating on the words "unreasonably difficult". It is a matter of demonstrable fact that obtaining rewards external to Dungeoneering is difficult compared to other skills in RS, but equivocating on the nature of that difficulty by modifiying it with "unreasonably" does not follow from the simple fact of difficulty. I.e. it doesn't follow that because something is difficult it is logically unreasonably so. No evidence has been offered to support your claim of unreasonableness. You are presenting your opinion as fact in a fallacious manner and we can discard objection 1). 2) Factually incorrect. It's early days, the best method of training the skill might not yet have been hit upon. Of course, in the interest of balance, it might well have been. However, since people are getting in excess of 20k xp/hr at the higher levels, and this is comparable to other "slow training" skills, then Dungeoneering doesn't appear to be particularly slow. Therefore objection 2) is factually incorrect and can be discarded. Speculative tangent: I have not checked this myself, nor seen any check of it with explicit data (as opposed to mere anecdote), but is it possible that soloing complexity 1 dungeons as fast as possible adds up to soloing complexity 6 dungeons per unit time? If soloing a complexity 1 dungeon can be done in 10 minutes and gets you > 1/6th of the xp that an hour long complexity 6 dungeon gets you then the fastest way of training might not be maximising xp per dungeon. The numbers I propose here are, of course, purely speculative and for the purpose of example only. 3) Subjective and derived from unstated assumptions. Whilst these mismatches are a fact, the claim that this is problematic is, again, mere opinion. It is based on the assumption that a skill must necessarily provide you with a reward outside of itself. The oft touted firemaking is uncontroversially a skill which provides little to no rewards outside itself, other than quest access (more on this later). To anticipate your next irrelevance, whether or not firemaking is a "good" skill or not is immaterial. To complain that it is not a "good" skill doesn't invalidate the fact that there are skills in game that provide little to no reward outside themselves and that a spectrum of skill external rewards exists within runescape, so spare us your moving goalposts and No True Scotsman fallacies before you use them. Objection 3) can also be discarded also. Speculation: Jagex may have set this up this way because, with some of the lower level rewards like the bone crusher, a player will be able to access them very simply by using Tears of Guthix/lamps/Quest rewards/Penguins in the near future. Obviously, I have no idea if this is the case or not. Merely raising level requirements for certain rewards would fail to counter this issue, merely making it more difficult. In other words Jagex seem, if this speculation is correct, not to want people to use items like the bone crusher without having actually played a lot of Dungeoneering. Since this makes these rewards unbuyable (by either xp bonuses like ToG or gp) rewards that require a lot of effort to acheive, something many people have been clamouring for, then I would have thought that this was actually a popular, even positive move. I stress I have no evidence to support this speculation. 4) Subjective. Of course it is an undeniable fact that this issue exists, how problematic it is a matter of personal preference. Personally, whilst annoying especially after an accidental/forced log out, this is not a major deal for me. Although, that said, I'd like it fixed because it affects the limited time I have to play RS. However, Jagex have stated this has been deliberately set up this way to prevent the servers being cluttered with a large number of empty dungeons. They have also stated they are looking into ways to circumvent the need for this restriction. It is a matter of personal preference whether you are happy to be patient regarding this. So whilst I agree, subjectively, that this is an issue, I disagree, subjctively again, that impatient jumping up and down and yelling is the best way to accomplish our desired goal. I.e. getting it fixed. Polite, constructive, carefully crafted posts on the relevant RSOF are more likely to get through, be read and be effected. Again, the real problem here is you presenting your opinion as fact. Whilst in this case your personal opinion and mine (and many others it would seem) coincide, and that opinion is regarding a factual matter, it doesn't follow that the issue in question is therefore a) a failure of this skill, B) a bug, or c) indicative of some flaw on Jagex's part as matters of fact. These are instances of opinion regarding a fact. So again, as a factual objection to this skill, 4) can be discarded. Speculation: The coming fix for this problem might already be in hand and be released after the initial surge of players levelling Dungeoneering has subsided. The servers might be able to better tolerate a few thousand hanging dungeons as opposed to a few tens or hundreds of thousands. 5) Logically fallacious and subjective. You are equivocating on the words "too rare". This is the same form of objection as 1) and again entirely subjective. This too can be disregarded. Speculation: Since we can bind item(s), and since the best items in RS (dragon, GWD items etc) are rare drops, Jagex have probably set this up this way so that we don't get a primal 2h drop on floor 1, bind it, and ace the next floors with our uber kit. This would defeat the purpose of the skill, demonstrated most clearly by the fact that we cannot import external kit into the dungeons, which is to start each dungeon from scratch, overcome the increasingly difficult obstacles within as one levels, and complete each dungeon with what we have been provided with. This skill actually requires some modicum of skill! Which is why all the semantic nonsense about mingames is hilariously ironic, but more on that later. 6) Since I'm not entirely sure which specific modifiers you're referring to, I'll have to request more information from you. 7) Logically fallacious and subjective. You are equivocating on the words "extremely, unnecessarily confusing". Again you present your opinion as fact. Anyone who finds the prestige system "extremely confusing" clearly has the IQ of a houseplant and should not be trusted with anything more harmful than yoghurt, let alone a computer. Please leave the internent now and report to your local hospital where nice people will put you into appropriate sunlight and water you. But seriously, this is yet again an equivocation and entirely subjective complaint. There is nothing wrong with subjective complaints per se, but to claim subjective complaint as fact is erroneous. More on that later too. Objection 7) can be discarded. 8) Logically fallacious, subjective and derived from false assumptions/argument from ignorance. Whether or not the countdown is "silly" is a matter of personal opinion (is anyone beginning to see a pattern to Qeltar's baseless objections yet?), not fact. You are assuming that the countdown isn't necessary for some reason and provide no evidence that this is the case. There are many possible reasons for the countdown (generating new dungeon maps, checking available server space, allowing team members to catch up, some other specific programming reason etc), and whilst I have no evidence that any specific one (or even all of them) is the case you are effectively asking us to believe that Jagex inserted the countdown with no reason to do so. Either way, the necessity of the countdown is simple to reslove: go to the RSOF and ask a simple, polite question of the relevant people in the relevant forum. Objection 8) joins most of its chums in the discard pile, at least provisionally. If Jagex come back with the answer "The countdown is completely unnecessary, we inserted it to annoy Qeltar" then it gets reinstated. 9) Subjective. Again this assumes this to be a problem not a feature. The lower complexity levels are clearly designed for young RS/new to RS players as an introduction, also older RS players (in both senses) new to Dungeoneering wishing a simple introduction, and players wishing to play simple dungeons. Also, flash forward to when Dungeoneering xp is available from penguins etc. It is theoretically possible for someone to have 70 Dungeoneering without setting foot below floor 1 of Demonheim. They could then play through the floors as simply as possible to reach the end of Demonheim and access all floors. This feature, whilst poor xp/dungeon this offers a potentially quicker route through Demonheim. You are, yet again, presenting your opinion as a factual flaw in Dungeoneering when it isn't. Objection 9) can be discarded. 10) Subjective and factually incorrect. The lower complexity levels are not completely useless, see above for simple examples. Objection 10) can be discarded. 11) Factually incorrect. You are not forced to replay lower level content as the shallower floors are not necessarily lower level. The difficulty of the dungeon you face is only in part determined by the floor, the party raiding the floor is also a determinant. You are also not in any way forced to do this. The best training method I am aware of involves you doing this but no one is forcing you to adhere to this. For example, I have got to 90 crafting by making battlestaves and glass orbs on a daily basis using the resources from my Varrock armour, Bert etc. This is far from the most efficient way to train the skill in terms of speed etc but it is the way I have gradually trained the skill because I enjoy doing it. I can get better xp rates by other means but I am not forced to do so any more than I am forced to train combat on experiments or what have you. In RS you can train your character in a variety of ways all with different efficiences. Someone should have pointed this out to you by now. Objection 11) can be discarded. 12) SInce you have not been specific about which aspects of this you consider "poor" I cannot comment. Like objection 6) more information is needed. That said, I will note that this objection appears to follow the form of previous objections: i.e. it is probably entirely subjective, possibly based on false assumptions, likely fallacious and opinion presented as fact. I can only dissect objections with some form of substance to them. 13) Subjective. Like 4) I agree with you from a personal standpoint. However, that doesn't render the objection factual. Of course I'd like more bound items, I'd also like a Ferrari, world peace and a couple of billion pounds sterling in the bank for good measure. As mentioned above, the clear point of Dunegoneering is to play each dungeon almost from scratch (you get some kit at the start). Many bound items would defeat this purpose. However, that said, whether the balance of the number of bound items is correct is a subjective issue. Since many people complain that RS is getting easier and that this is a bad thing, I'd think that the fact that we have an actual challenge here (small though it might be) is a positive note. Your mileage may vary. Opinion as fact yet again, 13) can be discarded. 14) Logically fallacious, factually incorrect and subjective. See 1), 5), 7) and 8). The fact that you can use practically all your RS skills within the dungeons, the balance of your RS skills affects how the dungeon is constructed and the balance of the party's skills affect the dungeon all demonstrate that this is so well integrated into RS that your objection is utterly counterfactual. What use one's Dungeoneering level is outside Demonheim is another matter. The fact that your Dungeoneering level affects which reward items you can use outside Demonheim, how many tokens you have earned inside Demonheim determines what reward items you can use outside Demonheim and the fact that you earn small amounts of xp in other skills inside Demonheim all demonstrate that Dungeoneering has a measurable impact on RS external to itself. This is the very definition of a well integrated skill. Objection 14 can be discarded. 15) Logically fallacious and subjective. You are equivocating on the words "laughably unfair". Whether this happens to be unfair is also a matter of personal opinion. Objection 15) can be discarded. Recap: Out of 15 supposedly indisputably factual objections to Dungeoneering you have managed to make not a single wholly factual objection, pending further information on 2 objections. Well done! You have routinely presented your opinion as fact, equivocated over the meanings of words to give yourself the opportunity to shift the goalposts when challenge, and stated a few things that are observably counterfactual. Bravo! End of Part One!

I'd already updated my Java by coincidence, but Norton 360 took care of this problem (blocked the test page) before it even loaded, so Norton users should also be ok. Thanks for the info though.

If it's the one with the fishing spot and the fire, you don't use hunting, you just catch "vile fish" from the fishing spot, cook them, and throw them where you want the ferret to go. Not that one...the one where you have to run around the room and hope to get lucky. No skill required. I'm 99% positive that it's glitched. If you catch him (which, like you said, requires a lot of luck), the door will only open that one time. I found that if I chased him around for five minutes, then spam clicked the door, it let me through. It's [cabbage], to say the least. EDIT: Also, I realized later on that I could just use gatestones to get around that room. the first time i came across that room, the ferret was just sitting there in the corner not doing anything. i didn't know what the room was about so i just ran up and caught him... and he didn't move at all. second time was near impossible to even get remotely close and i gave up and left If you chase the ferret through the various holes you'll find it ends up in a position near the centre of the room, near a short horizontal wall. If you go around the perimeter of the room (so the ferret can't see you) and come at the ferret from behind*, on the opposite side of the wall, you can get to within two spaces of it (one diagonal down and left, one left) with the wall between you and the ferret. You then can click on the ferret ("capture ferret" or something similar) and you get the little beggar. *No jokes please, we're British. ;-)

So, just to make absolutely clear, let's say I'm on floor 13 (lvl 26). I am not yet lvl 27, so floor 14 is unavailable to me. What I should do is "reset" my prestige, start back at floor 1 and work my way back to floor 13, or wherever past floor 13 it is when I start to find that my lvl is insufficient for me to advance beyond my current floor, right? As for your other tips, I'm already doing them (yay me! lol). Solo complexity 6 ftw as far as I'm concerned. Cheers!

[hide=Big room image][/hide] Is there anything complicated to this switch room that I'm missing? I am soloing the dungeons and from what I've read I have to get around the switches (marked 1 to 5) and then to the door (hilariously marked "door") before the timer runs out. Well, I seem to be managing by clicking the next switch in sequence as soon as I hear the switch sound and finally clicking the door. The route I'm taking is, unsurprisingly 1 through to 5, anticlockwise, and then back to the door. It really looks like I get to the door before the timer runs out but I always get hit and have never made it through the door. Perhaps I'm too slow! I have tried other routes and they all seem slower. Any tips? Anything I am doing obviously wrong? (Editted to hide image)

So wait, this new skill: a) Is hard to train (people complain how "easy" RS has become) B) Has content from 1 to 99 in almost all skills (people complain there is no high lvl stuff) c) Has new weapons that help to rebalance the combat triangle (people complain about mage being unbalanced) d) Has a level cap above 99 for the obsessive grinders (people complain that the 99 cap isn't enough) e) Has features that require either a balanced approach to the game in terms of skills or ability make balanced teams (people complain about gameplay not suiting them/being innovative enough) f) Is both F2P and P2P (People always claim they are being excluded) g) Is the biggest update for ages in terms of additional game features and map size etc (people complain about the size of updates) ....I could go on. And somehow people are STILL effing whinging! As someone said, haters gonna hate. Nitpicky, whiny, anomaly hunting little kiddies (and trust me sweeties, age is irrelevant when someone is stuck in the mentality of a self important, spoiled, delusionally entitled child). Hating on updates is their way of getting attention they desperately lack. Anyway, enough about the feckless naysayers, I'm lvl 18 in the new skill and loving it. Although at this rate I'll be 70 by the time I get the skill to 70.

I quite like this change, I agree with Jagex that it opens some new avenues. Now I have to toddle off and figure out a few ideas for the suggestion forums.... ETA: The "waaaaaaah big numbers/it's teh compumplictated" crowd: LOL I wonder can the whiners get any more pathetic?

Oh I'm going to disagree! I find the whole thing interesting, in fact I hope the Strange Red Mist Phenomenon was just the first of a series of such things each giving a hint as to what will come next. But then I loved that weekend cryptic clue thing, so I suppose that makes me weird! lol

I completely echo Zotto's post......well except that I don't have 99 slayer and have had the quest cape for ages, so my stats/slayer options are reversed. I've done 11 attempts at Jad. I get to Jad each time, but like Zotto, I stink at prayer switching. I make one mistake, wobble about like a muppet and the second mistake kills me! lol Oh well, I'll get it eventually.

I try not to listen to anything Jagex says. They said that summoning was going to be a money maker so they can't be trusted. I can actually see this as being a huge money making skill for the f2pers. Summoning has made me way more money than I've spent on it, and I'm only level 92. You're crazy if you think Summoning isn't profitable. Agreed. Summoning doesn't often make me money directly (i.e. by selling pouches), but it makes me money by making other activities more profitable and quicker. One tiny example: aberrant spectre slaying. Even using "protect against magic" prayer (and therefore using pray pots) I make more money in ranarrs alone than I use in pots/kit etc. That's over one task. Averaged over all tasks/activities summoning makes me money in the long run. Personally, I think it's the most useful sill in the game, it makes all the other skills better.

Oh I don't know. The censor has definitely taken out a few words that would be useful. And I'm not talking about the obvious ones like f.......... {sound of Loulabelles' internet plug being pulled out by angry mods}

1931 at the moment. I think the poll needs more gradation between 1500 and 2000. There is a world of difference between my character at level 1500 and now at almost 2000. I'd say at 1500 I was still relatively noobish. Mind you others might say this still applies at ~2k.

Let's all go online every saturday and see what the smites us next time. I think this is a Very Good Idea!

Mod Emilee did ask a very good question on the "no update this week" thread : How do we know the red mist/levitation phenomenon has anything to do with this week's (now delayed) update? The answer is, despite comments that we would find out soon, we don't actually *know* a single thing, and "soon" is a good weasel word. We speculate and have a variety of opinions of varying degrees of silliness (ZOMG SAILING! I know it I know it I know it), but no actual knowledge. We know what the twitter hint is in a variety of languages and all point to some sort of "diversity" related to "life" (personally this made me think of evolutionary biology, but then I am scientifically minded. Perhaps the new update is a breeding/evolution based skill). Personally, I hope the red mist phenomenon is one of a series of weird phenomena that happen over the next few weeks building to something massive, each weird occurence revealing a little more of the puzzle. Kind of like the cryptic clue fest thing, but bigger and more game relevant.

Update delayed to next week due to game engine issues. http://[Use Quick Find Code]/c=YF81xraeWYw/[Please Use QuickFind Code]?16,17,535,60280044

Look people, this endless speculation and hype building is pointless. We all know the update is ZOMG SAILING. Everyone knows it's ZOMG SAILING. Jagex have confirmed with a bloke down my local pub that it's ZOMG SAILING. Although given today's activities my guess for the update should be "Nappy Changing". Never, ever get stuck at home looking after a sick kid for a day or two. You go mad and start taking a game like RS seriously enough to have an opinion about it. ;-) L P.S. My "serious" guess is that the dragonkin are involved. Red glow = Dragonkin, diversity/variety hint could relate to the addition of more monsters to rs. Of course it's pure speculation, as indeed is everything else on the thread. Fun though.

Meleeing, ranging, hybriding, tried almost everything I can do at my levels, except a godsword and a rubber chicken. Would be great if I could get my hands on a BGS, for the special, but all 3 of my friends with an BGS sold them during this week... Have you tried the specific method I outlined in detail above? It's far from the best but it worked for me and my stats are not as good as yours and I'm a self confessed combat noob. Forget it, reading on in the thread I see you've done it. Congratulations! L

Glad to be of service! I am utterly rubbish at combat, so I figured if I can do it with a little bit of work, some relatively nooby gear and a bit of luck, anyone of similar levels can.