Sona

Blue light is also glitchy. I'm too much of a coward to actually go in and get hit by it, but the general consensus is that this update may have done way more harm than good. There's at least three or four maxed out guys raging at the dragons at where I'm standing at the moment. I'm going to see if I can grab a few more screens. Either I'm lagging or it's hitting more than once.

I'm in the same boat as you. Though I wouldn't quite say RC is not profitable. Blood Runes, with Darkness over Hallowvale are still about 200 per rune, so you're looking at about 300k or so per hour. Armadyl runes are going for 1.4k per rune on the Grand Exchange. You'll need to finish off that new quest and also buy the dusts which are grinded from semi-rare drops from boss-like monsters from people. New quest adds another chapter to While Guthix Sleeps. Quest reward includes the ability to make a ridiculously good battlestaff that takes 100 of the aforementioned shards. The staff itself fetches about 22 mil or so. If you wish to farm, though, that dungeoneering scroll that costs 100k EXP to get is really good. It gives you a chance to recover seeds from your farming patches and also gives you a chance to get stuff from dead patches. The whip is still not a bad weapon to consider using, though it's much cheaper now. There is a new quest reward sword, Korasi's Blade, that is also good for people who don't have the dungeoneering weapons due to its powerful special attack. Bandos refer to Bandos armor (huge shoulder pads on men and make women look like skanks), which is non-degradable, have stats close to Third-Age armor, and has a STR bonus. It's more expensive though. EDIT: To translate and explain what the guy up there said: - Helm of Neitznot is a cool hat. Makes you look like Thor. You get it by doing the Relleka quests (viking-land), which unlocks new spellbooks and several dungeons of note. - There are new items that help you hit more accurately/do more damage on slayer. Black mask for melee, Hexcrest for magic, and focus sight for ranged. They're about 15-16.6% bonus on each but only on your tasks. - Armors: New quest armor in the White Knight quest line gives you a fairly decent amount of prayer bonus (Proselyte armor) as well. Void knight armor is pest control, which you should be familiar with. A full set of void armor gives a bonus to a certain style depending on your level, so the armor becomes stronger as it go by. - Spirit shields are a new class of shields after the Summer's End questline. The more expensive ones (ranging from several hundred million) can reduce damage based on percentages - look at it in the wiki if you want to know more. The regular version isn't bad as a shield, though. - There are dragon boots you can pick up. - Ferocious ring is an item that allows you do some amount of extra damage in Kuradal's dungeon. It's a semi-common drop, but worth it if you can use it.

Like Cyrisus, I've been avoiding combat like the plague until about now. (I've grabbed a rapier the instant I hit 80 but has only used 3% charges on it. THAT gives you an idea of how much I fight. :mellow: ) So. I'm not sure how, but I have everything else in the dungeoneering list minus the chaotic equipment and the three prayer scrolls. I've done some research, and it shows that CLS is very popular on high defense monsters, while maul has highest STR/crush bonus. I'd like to (eventually) start leveling slayer and other combat related skills, but the problem is that with the exception of my melee (80-83-75), everything else is around the mid 50s -70s (prayer, slayer, summoning). So I'm probably not ready to tackle anything substantial. With such low stats, does it even matter which one I grab at this point? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

No comment on the second article. :rolleyes: As for the first one... Can't we just say we like to play a game because it's entertaining? People enjoy Runescape because it's a game. People like the feeling of achievement not because it's educational or practical, but rather because we get a shot of neurotransmitters into our heads everytime we achieve a goal we've set for ourselves. People like their friends online because we are social creatures and we enjoy each other's company, and online friendships can supply (to the extent in which it is allowed) what we need in real-life interactions. This is why I disagree mostly with the first perspective, because it could easily be interpreted as effort justification. This is when we convince ourselves that the amount of time we've spent on a game (or anything, for that matter) is actually worth our time, health, and money. I think while the intent of the author may have been good, I could think of a hundred things that would serve an individual better if they were actually trying to cultivate those values. There are exceptions for everything, of course, and I will gladly eat my hat to see a CEO or Nobel Prize winner or Politician attribute their successes to lessons learned while playing Runescape. (Which... surprisingly enough, I wonder why the author didn't comment on guilds. Guilds on MMORPGs are basically analogous to job applications, and in many, many aspects it is exactly the same as having a job.)

I know that these things boost rates when it comes to pickpocketing. Do they also work on wall safes in the Rogue's Den?

I personally found Aggro gramps to be easier than the girl, as he let you see what to expect on future paths at level 20. Handy for avoiding certain events that you don't want to do. I don't think it's been conclusively proven that Pazuzu/Dean is better than the other. Though if you're interested in maxing out rewards, one easy follower + one hard path + one combat event will bring you pretty close to 100 trek rating, since a hard combat event gives anywhere from 25 to 50 points. I think you can pull similar rates with medium paths, since there's always going to be 1-5 events, and you get to see which events you want to progress through.

... How would the OP know Jagex locked down the account after 8 hours?

Runescape is one of those odd games where certain demographics (pures) are seen as somehow viable in the game. I never understood it either, but I assume that the population is substantial enough to make it an ill-advised idea to even suggest it on the official forums. What is economically disastrous is simply a player's alternatives. Runescape's biggest grab right now, other than it's free, is that the game content is substantial with a very low price tag associated with it. Can people shell out an extra 6 bucks for 100 hours? Sure. Are they really that willing? That is really debatable, especially looking at numerous alternatives out there. The attractiveness of a subscription is just that - you can play as much as you want or as little as you want. It's a psychological sensation, and one that works because people want to get their "money's worth" out of a game, which in turn makes them more likely to renew a subscription. Companies understand this, which is why there are various incentives for them to make you continue your subscription. What's suggested here would be the first instance in which playing MORE of your game is punished, and that makes very little sense, as Ginger Warrior pointed out. No matter what the situation may be, bots can simply generate more accounts, bot the allotted hour, and then switch to a different account. If anything, I'd think profit margins for gold companies will now increase, as reduced supply + unchanged demand = higher profit margin for gold sellers.

What about adding the ability to "customize" weapons and armor for your personal use? This'd give players high level smithing and crafting additional incentive to use those skills. Taking a chapter from World of Warcraft, perhaps high level crafters can craft cosmetic pieces to be attached over the armor in which they're wearing, similar to ornaments for the Dragon Platebody. Each piece may add a few % of damage absorption if one wishes to make it statistical relevant. So smithing -> warrior armor, crafting -> mage/ranger armor. Thus, customizable ornament pieces are tradable (create commodity), are consumed upon use (ensues adequate supply/demand), can only be utilized by the people with the skill level (incentive to train skill). Make 'em moderately easy to obtain and you can tie in hunter/farming/mining/agility too to add additional interactions with other skills.

This is operating on the idea that older accounts are less likely to bot and/or as older botting accounts are banned the system becomes increasingly sufficient at tagging newer bot accounts? Because I think this is already present in the system. Though something that may be worth bringing up: there is little to no penalty in failing a random, currently. For most players being teleported somewhere is a minor inconvenience, and I'm pretty sure most bots know how to get around it as well. Assuming bots do fail randoms at a decent interval and humans don't, would punishment have marginally positive effects on deterrence?

Using a large array of ad hominem attacks don't make your argument stronger, Biyaunte. :rolleyes: I'm not trying to convince you, nor am I desperate to prove my point. Rather, from the vehement way in which you're arguing your position, it is rather self-evident to see which one of us care more about the topical matter at hand. You jump on statistics, and deny those. That's fine. I can accept your perspective. I simply present, through observation, that the Runescape community as a whole is largely interested in actually playing the game rather than offering input. The numbers I cite simply reflect that observation. You are free to deny the contention as it stands, as is everyone else reading what I write here, but the observations are there, and they aren't going away. Neither are bots. Some people don't like to face opinions in which they disagree with - as you've demonstrated in more than one thread (Tip.it article on worship comes to mind). However, the heart of the issue is botting, and that's the topic we're on here. If you're so learned, care to share with us some secrets? You toss out blanketing statements like "it's obvious", but to newer players, it may not be so obvious. I was at Frost Dragons yesterday, for instance. Nearly every one there was a grim, dour, hard-working player/bot who was grinding out their time 24/7. Should I, by logic presented here, report them all? After all, every high level player valuing their efficiency acts like a bot. :P The other issue that I've presented is in an attempt to explain why Jagex seems to be slow in responding to player demand. Once again, I've received no better counterargument than straight-up denial. I am simply stressing that you - the people who may or not frequent the rant forums - may not be as important as you claim in the grand scheme of things from the perspective of a company. People who desire instant reaction and are upset that they're getting none because, as I've said, you haven't made enough of an impact. The best evidence supporting this is Jagex's seemingly inattentiveness to the bots that are running rampant in the world. Surely you can't call that made up either, as Sten cited some avansie bots earlier with EXP in the 30-40 millions earlier that was so conveniently removed? I'm sorry if I've hurt feelings, but just because you've been around for a long time doesn't mean you're automatically correct. I can see from your condescending tone that you must feel something, and I am sincerely apologetic for any bad feelings that you may have brought upon yourself.

Welcome to the age of the internet, where direct communication is possible to the higher-ups. Someone from Jagex may very well stumble upon a post and decide to do something about it. What's been done can either be attributed to them practicing smart business or largely be attributed to all of you. Good job. However, most people equate Jagex taking action as something that's either visible or effective. There are still people who expect an immediate solution overnight. Look at the opinions presented here and you'll find that type of people all over the place. I'm talking about immediate, pressing action, which is what people seem to associate action with. I'm simply pointing out that you won't get that sort of reaction from the company unless all of you get up in arms. My comment is aimed at the prevailing attitude that if you don't report every "bot" you see, then you're part of the problem. I do report those that are clearly bots. Things like xjdkfsnj, for instance. But you can't honestly expect every d-leg/granite body wearing guy down at Turoth's or everyone running at Ape Atoll is a bot? How sure is reasonably sure? With efficiency being the paradigm of the year, most players want to accomplish their goal and do it fast. Stopping to answer a question is counterproductive from their perspective. And let's face it. You're someone who invested thousands of hours into this game. How likely are you to answer to someone's accusations, anyways? We've even got a rant thread here on this forums for that very reason.

First point: We're talking about different things, which explain the confusion. You're talking about action on behalf of Jagex. Code changes, J-mods. Things like that. I'm talking about actions carried out by the community, which is the intent behind the reporting system. I am saying that it is difficult for an average player to distinguish between botters. Last time I checked an average player cannot talk through public. The average player like you and I cannot modify the game to change behavior in order to catch bots in action. Do you at least agree with that point? I started commenting on the inability for normal players to act in respond to your challenge that players should take up the burden of anti-bot. I see where the confusion is. I see someone's upset when faced with statistics. Time to wake up. You may be vocal, but there's not enough of you to make a difference. I've said this over and over again. It's the reason why Jagex is recoloring whips instead of banning Frost Dragon bots. :P I don't want you to pretend you're the vocal minority. Heck, don't pretend to be anything. If you being vocal can accomplish something beyond vague shadows of promises from Jagex, I'm all for that. But the fact is, has that accomplished anything at all? Once people get over the idea that they're all-important and that what they say matter, they can get on with more constructive things like actually doing something that could matter. I don't disagree for a moment that people are all fed up with bots. But they're not fed up to the point to take action. If you're unwilling to accept that as truth, then all you have to do is look around you for an answer.

Not quite explicitly in the previous post, but in the other one (where we first butted heads over), I was not too keen on being accused of a botter, a source (and by proxy, attitude) of this game's problems, or a liar. I also don't like being interpreted as someone who lack basic cognitive functions or BRAIN CELLS just in the same way as you don't like (I only guess. Correct if wrong) being referred to as an irate 13-yr-old. I will apologize for any harsh words I've used, but I feel that it is impossible to communicate without resorting to a stronger tone. The issue of botting, however, is here to stay. Until you can get the same rate of response as certain other events, be prepared to stay disappointed.

Biyaunte, your scenario is wonderfully presented. And yes, if Jagex does change a few things, hundreds of bots could potentially be stopped. Now, does Jagex actually do these little things? The answer is no. The wilderness wall example is good, but so was the color-based anti-flax measurements. You and I both know how effective that was. In case you didn't know, bots do update too. :rolleyes: So could you stop with the name calling? It makes you look like an irate 13-yr-old. I am not disputing that updates catch bots. But in most situations, those updates are patched by the bots nearly instantaneously. Modern bots are far more advanced than you give them credit for. My point is simple. You cannot distinguish legitimate players from bots in those situations. Or, allow me to rephrase. The average player cannot distinguish legitimate players from bots without substantial effort, and most are unwilling to put in that effort. Perhaps you, being so astutely wise and perceptive knows with 100% certainty whether or not every player who passeth before you is a bot or not. I don't. And as stated elsewhere, people may have worked hard for their accounts. I am neither willing to waste Jagex's time nor am I willing to risk getting someone's account rolled/banned when they don't deserve it. Take agility. With the exception of the ones who are constantly logged on 24/7 for weeks straight, how do you tell a legit player who don't give a damn about responding to you from a legit player who has public off to a bot? "Patterns?" Can you honestly be willing to follow them for extended periods of time just to make sure one person is not a bot? Or Runecrafting. If that runecrafter isn't stopping to answer your comments, are you really going to run three or four laps alongside them to make sure they're not botting? LRC. Slayer. You name it. Soul Wars? Pest Control? Unless you're the type of player who reports every single player you deem suspicious, or you report everyone you see. In that case, then, allow me to borrow a phrase from you. Aimless reporting wastes system resources, and contributes no less to the problem at hand. This goes with my second point. --------------------- My point being that you might as well be the minority, seeing that there's so little of you that's actively participating in "community." Again, if you poll the average player through say, a magic in-game random event, you'd discover that players either dislike or are neutral to the idea of bots. I do not dispute that. However, the majority don't give a damn. Why? Simply look at player statistics and usage. One of the best ways to get Jagex's attention is presumably through official forums. In other words, if it has gotten to the point where the problem warrants significant attention - if a player is upset to the point where he or she feel the need to voice their opinions, I would guess that forums would be the next best thing, short of directly writing to customer service. Runescape has approximately one million active subscribers. About 200k players logged on at any given moment. The amount of players active on the official forums range from a few thousand on a good night to 422, as of five minutes ago. Of the posts relating to bots and similar issues, it takes up to less than 5% of total posts made. We can track some historical threads that's been locked, thanks to certain online archives. The largest thread, which had more than four thousand pages, had only 1755 unique IDs. Some of the larger ones (there's one that's a hundred pages long) has less than 350 unique IDs associated with it. This is less than 0.1% of the total number of players logged on. Let's be generous and take all the fan forums too. That still comes to a pathetically small community. Look at Tipit. How many folks regularly share their opinions here by posting, once we've removed the staff and moderators? How many of the 400k registered users here are active in the community? How many of them are vocal, outspoken critics? (I'm sure the mods have better statistics, but currently, there are ~200 guests, 70 members, and 8 moderators logged in. I'm pretty sure not every one of those participated in this thread.) No, let's do better. Let's multiply all of it tenfold. You'd be lucky if you can cobble together 10k players who are vocal about their opinions about bots. My conclusion is pretty simple from there. 10k out of how many total? Oh. That's right. Runescape touts itself as the largest F2P MMORPG. It IS one of the largest MMORPGs still, even to today. 10k may be enough to get them to send a guy to read your thread. To actually make an impact, you'll need some sort of majority or substantial, impactful number. A million players probably is too far off, even though that isn't anywhere close to being the majority. Do you think you can get 500k "supports?" 100k? 50k? 25k? Vocal minority, as I've said. Still think my claims are baseless?

Thirded. To the extent in which players play for the sake of play, that's where something like Runescape shines. The mid-tier quests and associated content is considerable, especially taking into account how pigeonholed endgame diversity (or the lack of) is. As for the last article... Interesting perspective, but unfortunately, you lost your hold on me years and years ago. With no expectation inevitably comes no disappointment. My happiness is derived from the little things in the process of simplistic actions - as it has been, as it will. I've never thought of it - the thing in which you presides over - as anything else than a game.

Increasing subscription costs is unwise. Particularly as most MMOs that aren't big already went into a micro-transaction model. To the above scenario. It really looks something like this. 1. Don't ban the bots. Make an extra whatever money. Maybe lose a few guys here and there. The people who are still addicted to my game are going to pay anyways and there's not a damn thing they can do about it, because they've invested far too much into my game already. Huehuehuehuehuehue. Seriously. Look at the number of posters on the official forums, for instance. Even if every single one of those guys ragequit, Jagex loses maybe, what, 1000-2000 posters? This isn't counting the F2P, of course, which is also a sizable portion. Vocal minority. I've said it over and over again. 2. Ban the bots now (how DO we tell bots from addicts to me game, anyways?). Lose the bot money. No guarantee of attracting players back because people'll just whine about the next thing we throw out. Best if we ban a few things periodically ... See where I'm going? Most players quit Runescape not because of bots, but because the game is no longer enjoyable. Why? Maybe real life finally caught up. Or maybe they realize that the accomplishments they've achieved matters very little in the end. However, it is awesome to hop onto the bot bandwagon and proclaim loudly that you're quitting out of a sense of justice and that bots are too bad and blah. Bots are a problem. But perhaps the game itself is at fault for being so simplistic. Nowadays, it takes more than simple Skinnerian mechanisms to keep players entertained. Sorry to say, but their logic is pretty simple. If you're fed up enough, you've quit already, and bots or no bots there isn't a thing we could do to make you come back and spend money anyways. So ... *waves* We know you'll be back.

Dominion's been out for a grand total of less than two weeks. You're just bad. :unsure: Actually. Judging from your constant stream of rants. I take that back. You look like someone who's got a lot going on beneath the surface. Go ahead. Be negative. Quests are necessary for propagation of the storyline. Certain storylines - eg. Elves, Lucien, Dwarves, Myreque, Void, Gnomes... the list goes on can no longer be resolved by simpler "fetch" quests. Even things like Elemental Workshop'll probably require more planning than before.

No, but gold seller PM bots will affect new players and it does dictate the flow of the F2P introductory feel. This may mean that Jagex'll try to push out new advertisement in order to attract in new customers through F2P. Or as the start of a PR campaign.

Hm. Unusual, especially considering prior paradigms of - Wait wait wait wait. I just figured out Jagex's anti-bot master plan. By suddenly increasing J-mod activity in the game, even for a brief period, it may be sufficient to scare a number of botters off botting for some time. Those who are botting on their mains will hesitate and think twice before leaving things on for extended periods of time. This slight reduction of bots will in turn, free up additional resources to combat gold sellers/level 3 skillers, and etc. Right now, the situation appears to be hopeless because bots seem to snowball. So what happens when such snowballing occurs in reverse?

Chat and camera updates may be more significant than we think. Runescape is one of the last few (true) MMORPGs that is sticking to a point-and-click mode. Anything to make it more convenient for players would be a boon. I'm not buying into Dominion Tower though. Sounds exciting, but it also sounds like they're looking for guinea pigs at Runefest to squish bugs for them. :rolleyes:

Biyaunte. Please allow me to clarify. Monotheistic tradition suggests not only the Christian God (and their numerous derivatives), but also that of Judaism and Islam, both of which are also sizable contenders. According to numerous census data released (though I admit the data on children and young adults is lacking somewhat), that does indeed seem to be majority insofar as individuals who declare themselves as religious - only 15% of the population in the United States and 18% (18-47%, depending on what poll you're looking at) of the population in Europe, for instance, declare themselves as a part of a non-religious group. ... Of course, he could have some sort of Christian agenda. I dunno. I'm not him. But from someone who doesn't seem to have a seething distaste for religion, I'm ... really not getting the holier than thou vibe. In other words, I just piped in here out of fairness. Any writing with a religious inclination to it tend to draw attacks - warranted or unwarranted. And, let's face it. We've the right to criticize him (as a few have been :P), so doesn't he have the right to criticize society as well? Free speech inevitably means that you'll find opinions that radically differ from yours. Why can't we go back to arguing about shoes and bots? ):

Considering his/her targeted audience in the first article, why would you call it biased? The majority of English speakers are likely to be more familiar with elements from a monotheistic tradition given the society that they likely grew up in. You have your biases. Writer has his/her's. Doesn't make yours or theirs any less valid in an opinion piece.

Personally. I think a commendable detail about Jagex is that they do push out new content every week. Most MMOs take weeks, if not years.

Here's a related question after seeing Stonewall's post. If Jagex bans a main for whatever reason, for instance, what could possibly justify them not banning the secondary account(s) in which you transferred wealth to? Do players really come back after the account they've worked for X years get banned?