Formerly_Deathknell

If they're gonna do this shameless shilling, couldn't they spend a little extra time and make them look cool? That thing looks like shit. <_<

Was just a guess based on what I read and what I know about Pal. I may be wrong. Dunno. And no government would bail out Jagex. Even they aren't *that* stupid. :rolleyes: -edit- The British government bought Jagex and is using it to spy on us!

Look, Jagex isn't as popular as it was a couple years back. That being said, it's not the time to screw around and piss off huge amounts of loyal players. Frankly, there's a never a time for that, but there are times that are worse to do it and it is my opinion that is one of those times.

He never said government. I think he was implying Jagex ran their game into the ground, sold a huge amount of the game to investors, and now they don't care anymore. That's just my guess as to what he means though.

Skeptic, the point I believe he was trying to make was that if the the actions they were trying to take would cause more disloyalty than the fact that they were hiding them, which also causes the disloyalty, the actions wouldn't need to be justified. It would be self-evident why they hid it. They wouldn't need to justify it. Though it would still be a crappy thing to do. If I caught my husband cheating on me and I killed him, I wouldn't need to justify why I did it. It would still be a poor reason, but at least a reason. Am I making sense anymore? :unsure:

I don't have the exact numbers, but there have been posts on other threads about the amount of new players signing up and such and it has significantly dropped off over the past couple years. It's hardly speculation and very widely accepted.

Justifying their actions =/= being transparent. "a lack of transparency is likely to result in consumer disloyalty, especially those actions which adversely affect players." If the actions being hidden by lack of transparency would result in more disloyalty upon being revealed than the current nontransparent state, then that statement is false, no? I believe he meant that the act of hiding their ulterior motives turns off more people than if they did was they wanted openly. People really, really hate being lied to, or feel they're being talked down to, etc. Yes though, your statement is correct as well.

What concerns me in the tightwire act that Jagex has to do now. With so few new players coming in, they have to be care who They go around pissing off. Now isn't the time to be playing it so fast and loose.

Please refrain from personally attacking people who may disagree with your position. The question in debate is whether JaGex ought to exercise censorship against moderators who do not share the same vision as JaGex - those whom may disagree. It is not the same as 'jumping on a desk and yelling at customers' at all - the analogy is very weak because there's very few similarities between the two. My view on the matter would be that it should be most appropriate if the views of disgruntled moderators were to be listened to, should it be presented in a way that is constructive and civil. I do not shun controversy, nor criticism - it operates in their interests to be self-correcting. It is a shame that sometimes JaGex does not fully justify their actions - thus it can only be assumed that they have ulterior motives. Hmmm.. Jagex, a multi-million pound company should justify (Or walkthrough - as they are already justified) why they've done something, to its customers? No, not at all. What they've done is justified, those demodded know exactly why they were demodded. I've already supplied a rather large quote by Mod Mat K in a previous page of this thread. These moderators weren't censored, they're free to post their opinions. They are guided to post them in a feedback forum for Moderators (As stated in previous quote) as their opinions in public can be seen as the opinion of all Moderators (They have green backgrounds/Silver crowns). If every other Moderator can express their opinions in a certain forum - so can those that were demodded. It's attention seeking when they go out of their way to make it seem like they're the only ones with an opinion. And I believe his analogy does apply. If all of the other staff in that place can express their opinions to the management privately and respectfully, then so should they. Should they choose to jump up on that table and scream and shout, they shouldn't be surprised as to why their were dismissed. To then go outside of that place of work and preach that they were fired for disagreeing with the ownership...They're not being entirely honest. Do you think they should have action taken against them if they air the opinions on sites that are not run by Jagex, such as Tip?

If I actually cared enough to meet the guy face-to-face, I'd prefer to give him a choice lecture on customer service and code reuse, and ask him to comp my plane fare. </offtopic> Probably should try and do that before we tar and feather him. Save yourself an awkward conversation. ;)

Transparency is the best smokescreen of all. They can say they're being fully transparent, and we'll never really know. Fair enough, but I would love some actual transparency, not just the word. :thumbup:

I say at the next Runefest we get together and tar and feather MMG. :thumbsup:

... :wall: You just don't get it. Anyway, to quote something (not just directed at the above post) [hide] [/hide] Okay, I'll accept that for Ken, but not for Jibby. Never. Jibby criticized them on a site that has no officiall affiliation with Jagex. That right there was some straight up bullshit. What if they criticized them on Tip? Maybe it a Times article? Would you have an issue for what they say on here? That's why I no longer have my real RSN name on here. I'm not gonna catch any backlash over there for what I say here.

It's just a shame that after all these years, they simply can't be honest with their players. How about some transparency over there you dipshits?

If you wish to believe that's how things work, fine. :thumbup: More power to you. If you have another account, by all means offer it. Otherwise, this would be the only logical answer. To be fair, if a change happened on these forums that I don't necessarily agree with, I would express those concerns in a more private manner. Jagex has the same idea. However the problem lies with their attitude on it all. I'm sure Jagex is listening to its players (and the message has been brought across), but trying to change their mind is a different story. Once they release an update, you can pretty much forget about them reversing it. Would I suggest giving up? No, but that's how it works most of the time. It's only natural that people have different opinions about things, but what is really unfortunate is that we cannot see what they are doing behind closed doors. In other words, we cannot view the PMod/FMod forums, so we cannot properly judge if they agree to the updates or not. It's been said that the amount of threads in there are a lot different from what's seen in the public eye. I'd definitely say that would be the polite thing to do, but if they chose to take it out in the open they shouldn't be punished for it. Also, on Tip you can't actually get a hold of someone in a timely manner and get an honest response. At Jagex... well I don't think it works the same way. :x

Their level of ineptitude is frankly awe inspiring.

Drum, Jagex could give politicians pointers.

Gandorf, because now the justification is that f2p botted those 99s. Even if they play, they got them from botting and that's wrong. So to punish them, we're going to screw f2p, whether they were legitimate or bots. Once again, f2p is screw over by the bots and Jagex. Is f2p's ass bleeding yet?

I think the j-mod missed the point completely... How can they be noticed by more people if the player isn't in the highscores lol. Yeah, it doesn't stop them from having that 99, just from showing up. How dumb do they think we are? That FAQ is crap. I don't buy any of those answers. I'll grant that I don't know everything they know, but to me it just doesn't make sense.

Once again, I wasn't talking about quiting. I'm not saying people should quit. I only mentioned that I haven't paid for membership because of things like this. My point is, and has always been, the reasons given for the change are crap. There must be another one and I want them to just say what it is. Mmmmkay? On the FAQ, to remove all the dormant and bot accounts that were 99.97 f2p you decide to just get rid of all the f2p players on the highscores? Throwing the baby out with the bathwater are we?

But nothing. They don't. Case closed. So why are trying to create an argument on your side when you can't even justify the most key, basic principle to your point of view? And if Jagex decide to do that, I'll just carbon-copy repeat the past few posts. What right do F2P players have to argue, when they're not doing anything in return to deserve the service in the first place? That was never my arugment or point I was trying to make slick. That was other people. My point is mostly about doing what you say and saying what you do. If you compare what they say and what they do it is wildly hypocritical. What I want from them is to be honest. The reasons for they gave for their decision to do this is total crap. I wanna know the real reason. If it's a good one, then cool. And, at present, I don't think doing this is worth the backlash. That is of course speculation. All opinions are speculation based on your personal judgement. Your opinion/speculation is that doing this is no big deal. My opinion/speculation is that it's not worth it.

They don't. But taking away things that f2p has had since the game began sets a bad precedent I think. When they do that, it means that anything could happen next. Limiting how long f2p can play in a 24 hour period? Not likely, but if the high scores go it's possible.

Festering about what? Not receiving something for free? I mean, that's the most ridiculous thing about this. It's not like they even did anything to 'purchase' the right to a hiscores table in the first place. I've posted four or five times I think in this thread so far and all I've heard in return is armchair gamers try and give me advice on long-term business strategy. The concept that F2Pers who have never given a penny to Jagex (completely out of personal choice) might not want to become P2P any more is laughable enough, more still when you point out that very few of the people bellyaching here are really going to walk away now. But crucially, not once has anyone on this thread justified the key tenet to the pro-F2P point of view: that Jagex have any obligation whatsoever to offer a key feature of their biggest website in good faith, in return for sweet FA. Okay, in the name of costs and business, I do not think that the revenue generated by this action is worth that amount of bad publicity and negativity that will come with it. Like the thing with Bank of America and the 5 dollar debit fee. After the backlash, it wasn't worth the money and they decided not to implement it.

Yes, Ken should've used the tool to that he as a Fmod posseses, contact Jagex, be completely ignored, and gone back to his hole. -Jagex

Rofl your earlier comments make it sound like you've quit based on what's going on *recently* in response to my post and it reads intentionally so. Sounds to me like you quit simply because you don't have the time to play anyway. No, even when I had no time I still had a membership because when I did play I like the p2p game. Based on how Jagex has conducted themselves I will not suscribe and give them money. That's how it is. Do I play less as a f2p then I would as a p2p member. Yeah, probably. I'm not quitting because I hope to outlast the regime of MMG, though it's not likely.