insane

No no no let's go one step further and ban anyone you can fit into a group when one of them causes an accident. You're right though 65% of accidents are caused by people under 21. And 73% of statistics are made up on the spot :P.

Yeah, I realized that earlier, but it still didn't work. *But* I went to the support information... and it said -

Well I'm not a computer genius, but I couldn't find it, seeing as it's an update and not a program, nor a windows component. Maybe a simple system restore and reinstall would do the trick?

In Ontario if you're over 65 years old you have to take a drivers test every year...

Also did that :).

Definately did :)

Running windows xp, just the automatic updates part - it told me that I have an update I need to get, specifically: Security Update for Windows XP (KB890859), and so I dl'd and installed it. Two seconds later it pops up again "You have one available update to install", so i resinstall it, and so on, and so on. What's wrong? Has it installed and just not realized it?

Wow. Those are actually really funny, and original. Kudos! ;)

I second Muse.

Do raped mother commit more suicides then people who have been raped and had an abortion or just not people who have been raped? Also why not let the kid decide for himself whether he/she wants to live better to let them be born and commit suicide then just kill them. So if sombody commits suicide thats straight to hell right? But if a baby is aborted they go to heaven. Eternal happiness. If you want to play the religeon card ;) If you want to play the religion card perhaps you should learn about religion. Instead of criticizing it and saying you don't believe in it, when you base your opinions on atheist propoganda and assumptions.

And regarding Miller's experiment - he used an atmosphere *fixed* to produce favourable results. When compared to what the early atmosphere would have been like when the first cell "evolved", even Miller himself conceded that it was completely unlike the early atmosphere. Miller himself conceded that his experiment was reduced to merely scientific trivia due to this new information. However, it remains to be just a tiny footnote in todays textbooks... I wonder why ;). Furthermore, EVEN if his experiment was legitimate (which he himself conceded it wasN'T), all it does is produce amino acids... the mere building blocks for life, it doesn't produce a cell or show how a cell could be produced through this, just the building blocks for life. But it doesn't evne show that, since it's illegitimate. Until next time... and Zealot, nice to see you posting again :). I just wish I had the time to post more than 10mins a week myself... then I could actually read the posts in this thread.

lol youve got a point. A point? Yes. Illogical? Extremely so. He prayed many times that this type of thread was locked. God doesn't take commands from people. His answer to your request was no. Therefore, the thread was not locked. Furthermore, it sounds as if you were praying without faith. As if you were praying for the sake of getting the opposite answer.

What is the cause of Gods exsistance? What caused God? The 2nd law of thermodynamics proves that God couldnt have always exsisted, so if he exsists he needs a creator and his creator needs a creator ad infinitum. If you put the entire universe on a 24 hour time frame, the exsistance of humans makes up the last two seconds of that 24 hour time frame. Evolution is pretty slow. No, I"m sorry, but it says everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence. God's current definition leaves him at beginningless. And Chambochae, you didn't really offer any proof for your reasoning that physics doesn't apply to the universe...

Ack I go away and this gets reborn... 1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence. 2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true). 3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence. 4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution. 5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence. If evolution were true and the universe has always existed... then wouldn't everything be perfect by now? I mean, eternity is certainly enough time for evolution to perfect everything... Anyways, don't bother starting arguments with me as I won't be able to check these boards nearly as much as I used to.... maybe once every two weeks. Oh, I believe God exists. :)

I played piano for 10 years, quit. Now I'm playing accoustic guitar, on my fourth year.

The only problem that exists is you keep claiming at one stage there was nothing. Can you prove otherwise without contradicting thermodynamic laws? The Kalem Ontological argument: 1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause. 2. The universe had a beginning (the Big Bang). 3. The universe had a cause for it's existence. I can't see this being refuted. It's been tried, but failed.

I'm willing to bet there are an extremely larger number of Christians persecuted for their beliefs than atheists... some might say people like Galileo were persecuted for their atheistic beliefs but this is just not true... Galileo wanted the church to immediately endorse his views, and he publicly mocked the pope. Something anyone would be persecuted for... Christianity is certainly the harder life if you actually live it out. And the more logical if you take the time to study the evidence.

The big bang. Based on my current understanding of the theories in play, there are two scientific explanations for the big bang. First, an infinite cycle of contraction and expansion in the universe, big bangs followed by big crunches, for an infinite amount of time. Of course, recent reasearch has shown that the universe is not only expanding, it is accelerating, which damages this first conjecture to say the least. Second, if you can stomach string theory, there is a derivitive theory, membrane theory, or M-theory. To simplify greatly, there are string membranes existing in parallel with our own. If these membranes were moving in a wave form, and were to strike one another, a MASSIVE amount of energy would be transfered to the point of collision. This could easily have supplied the required amounts of energy, and by e=mc^2, matter, to initiate the big bang. The string theory has pretty much zero physical proof. It's basically a theory created for the sole purpose of taking God out of the equation. So far, it's done a pretty crappy job. As for the Big Bang, it merely supports God's existence. I am quite familiar with it, I was writing as an expansion to an earlier argument I thought unfit to quote ;).

If matter has only been around for billions of years, where did it come from? There is a problem with your 'quantum vacuum'. When most people think of a vacuum, they think of absoultely nothing. The problem is, a quantum vacuum is a sea of fluctuating energy - certainly not nothing. So in a sense you're just pushing back the creation a bit, you still have to show how this quantum vacuum came out of nothing. (Paraphrased from William Lane Craig, PhD, ThD)

-agrees with that random guy- Wouldn't you think if God existed he would be able to get around physical laws? Also - if the matter + energy in the universe has always existed (which as to be true if God doesn't exist, because nothing can come from nothing), then that would be breaking Thermodynamic laws as well - one of them states that given enough time, all matter will break down into its smallest particles. Surely eternity is a long enough time for it to break down if matter has always existed. I'm looking around and... guess what? It hasn't happened. This = violation of thermodynamic laws.

I'm currently reading The Case for a Creator by 'Lee Strobel'. He is a very successful journalist for the Chicago Tribune I believe; anyways, he goes around interviewing incredibly successful scientists (with credentials btw) on scientific proof for God and against evolution. It turns out that about twenty years ago, atheism would be most supported by science, but more and more science is found to be proving theism most true. It's a very interesting read.

Naw... I was going to take a couple of his/her responses first. Basically it boils down to that without the existence of a God to set the moral standard - there is no moral standard. Some may say that there's moral safety in numbers, but the Nazi's were a numerous people that believed exterminating Jews was morally correct, or a moral obligation. What is your moral standard based on if there is no God to set it?

I am agnostic, but I have morals. What makes your morals more right than a Nazi's, for example?

You would have to first define what makes a child 'alive'.

Arguments God does not exist: I'm an atheist. [misquote proof here] [insert sarcastic comment meant to make theists look stupid] Look at me! I'm so right!