I'd be interested to know why you don't think they count. By all means ask many of the older members of clanning. Sabres have split before as well as having closed due to issues within the clan. When they split it was a break up of the original clan and it was only really after that it was claimed to still be Sabres (probably to hold onto the title). I am speaking for what I have been told of course by multiple sources who were active during this time. They will claim they have not but MANY members from multiple old-school clans can vouch for different circumstances. Sure they are the oldest clan to have ever been involved with Runescape however I believe it would be safe to say that the oldest ACTIVE clan would belong to someone else. Heck THE has been in the top 5 longer than most clans have been alive. It is only in recent years that Gladz BK and THE dropped out of that rank. I dont believe anyone can question the longevity of any of those 3 though. They all have stayed active and pretty much have not fallen below at least top 30 overall. Lol. The Sabres havent closed ever, although spilts between the Light and Dark Sabres occured, you can read the history on their forums. Thesabreclan.com. They have never officially closed, but have gone from the spot light due to things changing in the clan world, pvp, etc. They are still active in the sense of having events and an active community. Anyone who says that the Sabres closed has been mis-informed. Just because you dont hear from a clan doesnt mean that it doesnt exist or has closed. Due to some of the leaders of the past, they did not really care about what the clan world thought or etc, so they didnt do much warring. However, they did have pk trips, albeit smaller. But there has always been people there and events happening, whether or not they had new recruits or were losing, they were always struggling in existence. And btw, this spilt happened between members of the Sabres who were following after each other, but I believe that they were remerged, never has the Sabres ceased to exist. Lynx