Real World Trading: Reasonable or not?

[imhomer]

First off, I'd like to say that this is the first post I've made here in over a year I believe and I haven't played RS in the last 9 or so months until yesterday and I'm having a bit of a culture shock.

 

 

 

I logged into the game and found a lot of stuff had changed. At first it seemed like Jagex had a really cool idea to help out the world economy (The Great Exchange, hereafter referred to as TGE). However, that appearance quickly faded when I realized that it wasn't just another practical way to trade large numbers of items it was the only way. Jagex has mucked around with the economy before; creating construction to try to reduce inflation, creating new (and ultimately useless) but very rare items. However, they've taken things a very large step further by trying to control prices on the market. At TGE you can only offer your goods for up to 5% above or below the median price. But I digress into a rant different from the title, now to get to the actual debate.

 

 

 

I've been told all these things (including the 3k trading cap and TGE) are in an attempt to finally put a stop to real world trading of items. So now we're at the root of the problem and our debate topic; real world trading. Well, let's start at this: the main mode of real world trading that Jagex is apparantly trying to prevent is buying in-game gold with real life cash i.e. $3 for a million gold. The companies that sell this gold are usually located in less developed countries (such as thos in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe) where workers grind on the same tasks for dozen hour shifts to earn the gold which can then be sold for real cash.

 

 

 

I personally don't see anything inherently wrong with real world trading. Member pay out $5 or more a month to get a better opportunity in the game, level their characters faster, unlock certain areas etc. In the same way a person who buys gold is attempting to gain a way for their character to level faster, unlock more opportunities, get into certain areas etc. I see no difference in the way.

 

 

 

The way I see it is this; perhaps real world trading is an issue for a reason that I don't see here. However, if the a complete reworking of the in game trading system and controlling of prices in game (crippling the free market in my view) is the price to pay to get rid of what I consider to be a small evil, it's not worth it. I'd be more willing to deal with a bunch of people who perhaps have not earned their status with toil in game than to have to deal with an overly restricitve trading system.

 

 

 

Obviously some people will differ with me about the conclusion I have drawn about Real World Trading (i.e. not all that bad) so, let the debate begin. :thumbdown: :thumbup:

[Levon_]

All Runescape accounts and items are property of Jagex. And selling something that is not yours for real-world cash is illegal isn't it? Also, Jagex could have been shut down from all the credit card scams that were being used to pay for rwters memberships (the rwters were getting the credit card numbers from their customers). They were losing alot of money and had to shut down rwting. Also, people don't grind all day to get enough money to feed themselves. They set up macros (bots, autos). RWT wasn't a small evil, it was a rather huge one. A person who buys gold is most likely a lazy kid that is incredibly spoiled and can't do anything on his own, so he tries to buy his way through the game.

[Zierro]

Rust covered pretty much everything. Also, Jagex were banning tons and tons of bots which was a big waste of time for them. Now that RWT is gone, so are the bots. What does that say right there?

 

 

 

RWT isn't the spirit of the game either. Using your real life success to get success in a video game isn't what Jagex wanted. Runescape is supposed to be a competitive game and RWT ruins that aspect. Gift-giving is a whole different story. First, there aren't whole companies dedicated to gift-giving so it's on a much smaller scale than RWT. Second, gift-giving didn't cause bots to exist. Third, gift-giving is an act of kindness which is something Jagex likes. It's their game and we all agreed to the terms of use so I think they're entitled to say what is right and what is wrong.

 

 

 

Of course, you will have your RWT defenders that try to embellish the act of breaking a rule, but every rose has it's thorns.

[imhomer]

You make a very convincing arguement about the evils of RWTing. However, I do know for a fact that people do grind all day. The RS anti-macro system is actually fairly decent. The reason why there are so many "macros" is because there are people who act like macros but are not.

 

 

 

EDIT: And I don't mean to defend RWT, I'm just curious if these...draconian methods are necessary or even a decent tradeoff.

[Alg]

Well, one concept:

 

Paying for membership unlocks more game content, and while you say RWT does the same, it does not open content that was previously inaccessible regardless of what you did.

 

 

 

Part of it may be that it devalues the game, which is why it was against the rules long before the updates. What, exactly, do you have to work for, or what reason do you have to be playing, if you can just buy your success? The feeling of achievement is probably why a lot of people are playing to this day, and there really isn't one where you don't have to work for it. Really goes along with that saying, "it's the journey, not the destination".

 

 

 

Edit: The methods were probably the only one that they could incorporate that they saw no holes in. A little while after, players found them, but as a while, the community could probably find holes in anything, if they were set to it.

[Madmanpur3]

The only reason real world trading is bad because the people who control the game THINK it's bad.* RuneScape is not a competitive game, nor does RWTing devalue any achievements. JaGex just didn't want other people to be making money off of their product, when if you think about it the RWTers never took any money *away* from JaGex, they simply got money that would've otherwise gone to Wal-Mart. In Fact, real world traders would've actually made JaGex more money had they allowed it because more people would've continued playing and paying.**

 

 

 

But, as they are the ones in charge I don't have much of a say in it. Also realize I'm not here to say they should allow it, just saying that people are wrongly labeling RWTing as the enemy when the only true enemies were the autoers and credit card thieves.

 

 

 

Another thing I would like to point out is that just because it's against a rule does not automatically make it a bad thing, because as my first sentence points out it's only against the rules because JaGex wanted it to be against the rules.

 

 

 

*I am not including bots/macros in my statement because using a bot =/= real world trading.

 

**I am not including credit card fraud in my statement because, again, it's a separate issue.

[Bloodkay]

The only reason real world trading is bad because the people who control the game THINK it's bad.* RuneScape is not a competitive game, nor does RWTing devalue any achievements. JaGex just didn't want other people to be making money off of their product, when if you think about it the RWTers never took any money *away* from JaGex, they simply got money that would've otherwise gone to Wal-Mart. In Fact, real world traders would've actually made JaGex more money had they allowed it because more people would've continued playing and paying.**

 

 

 

But, as they are the ones in charge I don't have much of a say in it. Also realize I'm not here to say they should allow it, just saying that people are wrongly labeling RWTing as the enemy when the only true enemies were the autoers and credit card thieves.

 

 

 

Another thing I would like to point out is that just because it's against a rule does not automatically make it a bad thing, because as my first sentence points out it's only against the rules because JaGex wanted it to be against the rules.

 

 

 

*I am not including bots/macros in my statement because using a bot =/= real world trading.

 

**I am not including credit card fraud in my statement because, again, it's a separate issue.

 

 

 

Actually, Runescape is a highly competitive game.

 

Players compete for resources and training spots and monster kills every day. The fact that Bots, who are trying to make Gold for RWT, are thrown into the mix devalues the game for everyone doing these things. It's no more fun, because all the good training spots for various skills are filled with Bots, thus turning players off from the game.

[Alg]

^

 

Thinking back, were you proud to have made your first million? Saved for your first whip?

 

Where's the pride in that if you can just buy it?

[Madmanpur3]

Should a person who sits at home all day slaving away for 85 slayer so he can finally get his first whip by 'truly earning' it really be more proud of himself than a person who goes to school, is very involved in sports and the community, goes home to do some chores then only has a half hour max to play runescape so he decides to buy a whip via rwt since otherwise he'd be waiting a year...?

 

 

 

JaGex claims they do not want to give players advantages based on their real life background...well in my opinion someone who's able to play 10 hours a day has a definite advantage over someone who's able to play a few hours a week. It's exactly the thing they said they did not want to be an issue, but instead of the rich people getting ahead easier, it's the lazy no-lifers getting ahead easier.

 

 

 

As for your questions, I really do not remember my first mill at all nor would I feel my achievements are devalued because someone else chose to purchase theirs because the fact is no matter what other players do, my character will remain the same. In fact, JaGex has deemed it necessary to take away 3 of the things I was proud of in the game, leaving me with only one left...and I'm sure if they knew about it they'd probably try and put a stop to it because they do not like people who stray from the path, they like to be in control and it will always be that way (I'd like to point out that the things I'm proud of in RS aren't things that can be purchased via RWT).

 

 

 

Another thing - if real world trading supposedly devalues achievements, then wouldn't the person who pays 1.5m for their whip be devaluing the achievement of the person who took it upon themself to get 85 slayer and get their own whip through a drop?

 

 

 

RuneScape is an online game - meaning any issue, regardless of severity, in the game should not be turned into as big of a deal as a lot make it out to be...if someone wants to spend their real currency on it then as far as I'm concerned they can go right ahead. Personally I think that's dumb but if they want to do it I have no reason to object.

[Alg]

One could argue that there is a difference between an amount of time and an amount of money as a real-world advantage. If you only play half an hour daily, you're playing casually, and using the game as a pastime, you can still do everything anyone else would do, just over a longer period.

 

Money is something that can be earned and lost, unlike time. Time is going to be there until your death, regardless of how you fill it, while money comes and goes.

 

 

 

Buying gold seems to be a form of instant gratification, for one who wants the easy way.

[Bloodkay]

Should a person who sits at home all day slaving away for 85 slayer so he can finally get his first whip by 'truly earning' it really be more proud of himself than a person who goes to school, is very involved in sports and the community, goes home to do some chores then only has a half hour max to play runescape so he decides to buy a whip via rwt since otherwise he'd be waiting a year...?

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Because he chose to put in honest effort into the game. That does not make him a no lifer though, he may simply have a lot of time on his hands despite all he does with friends/family/work/chores, etc...

 

 

 

Buying Gold is just an easy way out of having to spend more time on the game.

[Alg]

Should a person who sits at home all day slaving away for 85 slayer so he can finally get his first whip by 'truly earning' it really be more proud of himself than a person who goes to school, is very involved in sports and the community, goes home to do some chores then only has a half hour max to play runescape so he decides to buy a whip via rwt since otherwise he'd be waiting a year...?

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Because he chose to put in honest effort into the game. That does not make him a no lifer though, he may simply have a lot of time on his hands despite all he does with friends/family/work/chores, etc...

 

 

 

Buying Gold is just an easy way out of having to spend more time on the game.

 

Which is what devalues it

[Levon_]

^

 

Thinking back, were you proud to have made your first million? Saved for your first whip?

 

Where's the pride in that if you can just buy it?

 

 

 

I was sure proud when i finaly got my full rune (t) in f2p. One of my rl friends once bought about 3m cash, and bought full guthix rune, and full black (g) he printed out a picture and started bragging the next day and the only thing he got out of me was despise (well, mostly laughter). He ended up quiting in like a month or so to.

 

 

 

But, as they are the ones in charge I don't have much of a say in it. Also realize I'm not here to say they should allow it, just saying that people are wrongly labeling RWTing as the enemy when the only true enemies were the autoers and credit card thieves.

most macros and credit card theives were rtwers.

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason real world trading is bad because the people who control the game THINK it's bad.* RuneScape is not a competitive game, nor does RWTing devalue any achievements.

Wow, what are you smoking? RWT is bad because jagex didn't want it in the game, but it is also bad because the legititiment (haha spelling = phail) players believe it is bad. RuneScape is highly competitive. PKing was, and still is competitive. Monster hunting is competetive. MINING can be so competetive its not even funny (well i guess it is kinda funny). Why do people continue raising their skills when they can complete all the actions in it at a level thats not 99? because they want to be better, or get better. RWT to get anything devalues whatever it is your getting. You find rwt ok, but would you find paying your teacher/professor money to give you a 100% in whatever subject ok?

 

 

 

How many people acutally read the development diaries?

 

 

 

RWT isn't the spirit of the game either. Using your real life success to get success in a video game isn't what Jagex wanted. Runescape is supposed to be a competitive game and RWT ruins that aspect.

More excelence.

 

 

 

This is deserving of a lock.

[Madmanpur3]

But, as they are the ones in charge I don't have much of a say in it. Also realize I'm not here to say they should allow it, just saying that people are wrongly labeling RWTing as the enemy when the only true enemies were the autoers and credit card thieves.

most macros and credit card theives were rtwers.

Most macros and credit card thieves being real world traders does not make real world trading bad, that still only makes the macroing and credit card stealing bad. I have yet to hear a reason as to why real world trading is/was bad.

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason real world trading is bad because the people who control the game THINK it's bad.* RuneScape is not a competitive game, nor does RWTing devalue any achievements.

Wow, what are you smoking? RWT is bad because jagex didn't want it in the game, but it is also bad because the legititiment (haha spelling = phail) players believe it is bad. RuneScape is highly competitive. PKing was, and still is competitive. Monster hunting is competetive. MINING can be so competetive its not even funny (well i guess it is kinda funny). Why do people continue raising their skills when they can complete all the actions in it at a level thats not 99? because they want to be better, or get better. RWT to get anything devalues whatever it is your getting. You find rwt ok, but would you find paying your teacher/professor money to give you a 100% in whatever subject ok?

 

 

 

How many people acutally read the development diaries?

You are obviously using a different definition of 'competitive' than I am, as for the devaluing of achievements...how exactly is that measured? - because I could go around claiming the person in the white partyhat calling everyone a noob devalues my achievement of having a white partyhat since people will think all white partyhat owners are stuck up jerks. Honestly, the whole 'it devalues achievements' argument is completely invalid. Lastly, you're example is poor at best because in RuneScape one can obtain any level or item guaranteed provided they have enough time...so in essence real world traders are buying/selling time and since player A spends 50 hours a week on rs and player B has 5 hours a week on rs, player B buying 45 hours worth of time is simply evening the playing field. Also, if you want to pay a teacher to get a 100% in the class go right ahead, but you aren't buying the knowledge so you'd only be hurting yourself. If it were possible to buy knowledge, many people would do it.

 

 

 

FYI, I've read every development diary.

[Levon_]

Coments underlined

 

 

 

But, as they are the ones in charge I don't have much of a say in it. Also realize I'm not here to say they should allow it, just saying that people are wrongly labeling RWTing as the enemy when the only true enemies were the autoers and credit card thieves.

most macros and credit card theives were rtwers.

Most macros and credit card thieves being real world traders does not make real world trading bad, that still only makes the macroing and credit card stealing bad. I have yet to hear a reason as to why real world trading is/was bad.

 

RWT is/was bad because it devalues the work legit players have spent earning their achievments, and devalues the achievments for the customer

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason real world trading is bad because the people who control the game THINK it's bad.* RuneScape is not a competitive game, nor does RWTing devalue any achievements.

Wow, what are you smoking? RWT is bad because jagex didn't want it in the game, but it is also bad because the legititiment (haha spelling = phail) players believe it is bad. RuneScape is highly competitive. PKing was, and still is competitive. Monster hunting is competetive. MINING can be so competetive its not even funny (well i guess it is kinda funny). Why do people continue raising their skills when they can complete all the actions in it at a level thats not 99? because they want to be better, or get better. RWT to get anything devalues whatever it is your getting. You find rwt ok, but would you find paying your teacher/professor money to give you a 100% in whatever subject ok?

 

 

 

How many people acutally read the development diaries?

You are obviously using a different definition of 'competitive' than I am,

 

Here's Competitive straigh from dictionary.com

 

1. of, pertaining to, involving, or decided by competition: competitive sports; a competitive examination.

 

2. well suited for competition; having a feature that makes for successful competition: a competitive price.

 

3. having a strong desire to compete or to succeed.

 

4. useful to a competitor; giving a competitor an advantage: He was careful not to divulge competitive information about his invention.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the devaluing of achievements...how exactly is that measured? - because I could go around claiming the person in the white partyhat calling everyone a noob devalues my achievement of having a white partyhat since people will think all white partyhat owners are stuck up jerks. Honestly, the whole 'it devalues achievements' argument is completely invalid.

 

Imagine this. Your a f2per, whos never been to any fan sites, and doesn't know much about the game or how to make good money. You finally get enough money to buy yourself a shiny set or rune and a scimitar, only to find out that the next day your REAL LIFE friend has bought 3M through rwt and spent it on some shiny Guthix and black g. That would devalue your achievment wouldn't it?

 

 

 

Lastly, you're example is poor at best because in RuneScape one can obtain any level or item guaranteed provided they have enough time...so in essence real world traders are buying/selling time and since player A spends 50 hours a week on rs and player B has 5 hours a week on rs, player B buying 45 hours worth of time is simply evening the playing field. Thats why people RWT, because they don't have enough time, or are lazy. Player A is usualy one of 200 bots or how ever many made by 1 or 2 people. So really they are selling "time" that doesn't exist.

 

 

 

Also, if you want to pay a teacher to get a 100% in the class go right ahead, but you aren't buying the knowledge so you'd only be hurting yourself. If it were possible to buy knowledge, many people would do it.

 

 

 

Thats what i was getting at. If you buy the whip or whatever your only hurting yourself. Thanks for proving my point :

 

 

 

FYI, I've read every development diary.

 

Oh, thats nice, altough my comment wasn't specifically directed at you

[Zierro]

So basically what is being said is that if you are not breaking the rule for the reason which it was put there for, then you are in the clear. (The RWT rule is there to prevent devaluing achievements and this is supposedly "invalid".)

 

 

 

It's the same thing as saying it's okay to bug abuse because you are "technically" not spoiling the game since there are unfair things in Runescape - making the reason it's against the rules "invalid".

 

 

 

I guess it must also be "okay" to use offensive language until you actually offend someone. That must mean it's "okay" to encourage rule-breaking too unless someone actually obeys you. Heck, this means you can practically break any rule you want.

[imhomer]

So basically what is being said is that if you are not breaking the rule for the reason which it was put there for, then you are in the clear. (The RWT rule is there to prevent devaluing achievements and this is supposedly "invalid".)

 

 

 

It's the same thing as saying it's okay to bug abuse because you are "technically" not spoiling the game since there are unfair things in Runescape - making the reason it's against the rules "invalid".

 

 

 

I guess it must also be "okay" to use offensive language until you actually offend someone. That must mean it's "okay" to encourage rule-breaking too unless someone actually obeys you. Heck, this means you can practically break any rule you want.

 

 

 

I don't mean to say that RWTing shouldn't be against the rules or any of that. If it's against the rules, it shouldn't happen. However, 'shouldn't' and 'doesn't' are two different things. My arguement is that yes, RWTing is bad but I would rather deal with people who have not earned their achievments than to deal with a severely messed up trade system i.e. the solution is more of a problem than the actual problem.

[Bloodkay]

I see no problem with the trade system. You can't make an unbalanced trade, which allows for no scams and no cash/item transfers. The G.E. allows for all of Runescape to buy and sell their items without hassle. Prices are based solely on supply and demand with a little influence from Jagex so that they don't go too high or too low or that people abuse the system.

 

 

 

Really now, the only people who should be complaining are merchants, scammers and RWTer's. No honest player has a real need for unbalanced trade, except the occasional birthday present or donation.

 

 

 

"All for the greater good."

[Alg]

 

Really now, the only people who should be complaining are merchants, scammers and RWTer's. No honest player has a real need for unbalanced trade, except the occasional birthday present or donation.

 

 

 

"All for the greater good."

 

Er, PKers, and Stakers also suffer, most were honest players, and you really should not class merchants with Scammers and RWT'ers.

 

Many honest players gave gifts to their friends on a regular basis.

 

 

 

It's not that it devalues another's achievement, it's your own. I know from experience that cheating at a game makes it quite a bit less fun. What reason, really, do you have for playing it if everything you want in it can be obtained without effort. That is where the game is devalued.

[Bloodkay]

Oh, sorry o_o" I didn't mean it like that, I meant that those people, plus the ones you've included, suffer from lack of unbalanced trades. I'm not trying to group them all together into one "bad" group :P

[Levon_]

which allows for no scams and no cash/item transfers. ."

 

 

 

RWT is still happening, just not as much. It also costs about 10 USD instead of 3USD per one million, because the traders go on both acounts and do the trading 3k or however much your trade limit is at a time every 15 minutes till your done. I believe it takes 83.5 hours to trade 1M this way, and it takes 8.5 hours to trade 1m at 30k per 15 minutes. I have also heard rumors that in the high level crater on F2P people have dms in Rune (t), (g), gunthix, zammy, or saradomin, and rwt is being done by the rwt going in with full whatever and the customer going in with full rune. They find each other and the rwter perposley dies and hopefull the customer can survive.

[Bloodkay]

 

RWT is still happening, just not as much. It also costs about 10 USD instead of 3USD per one million, because the traders go on both acounts and do the trading 3k or however much your trade limit is at a time every 15 minutes till your done. I believe it takes 83.5 hours to trade 1M this way, and it takes 8.5 hours to trade 1m at 30k per 15 minutes. I have also heard rumors that in the high level crater on F2P people have dms in Rune (t), (g), gunthix, zammy, or saradomin, and rwt is being done by the rwt going in with full whatever and the customer going in with full rune. They find each other and the rwter perposley dies and hopefull the customer can survive.

 

 

 

Well then, if that is happening still, then you'd better make the best of it now. Because sooner or later, or even now, Jagex will catch on to it and take away the 3-30k free cash every 15 minutes as well as claiming items from Bounty Hunter from kills.

 

I seriously doubt that Jagex wouldn't do that, after seeing how much they've already changed their game.

[Madmanpur3]

The "it devalues achievements" argument does not work for the simple fact that there are numerous instances where players can claim what others do devalues their achievement all while nobody has broken a rule. If you do a quest the way it's suppose to be done, it will take considerably longer than if you just use a guide and don't pay attention to the quest - in my opinion those who 'cheat' their way through quests do not deserve the rewards, especially in a less amount of time, than those who do quests the way they should be done...devalues their achievement. A player can spend hours killing green dragons or chopping yews to save up a couple mill while his friend happens to attend a random drop party and gets lucky and leaves with ranger boots...devalues their achievement. If someone chooses to pay $3 for a million gp, just pretend they got lucky and got a d legs drop or something, because whether they really did get lucky or whether they purchased that 'luck' nothing changes with your account and you will always have the satisfaction and knowledge that you earned your items/skills/money yourself.

 

 

 

Also, because whether or not something devalues an achievement is nothing more than opinion, it cannot be considered a reason for real world trading to be bad. There is no meter that shows your overall achievement value nor do you lose the achievement in which you have attained. So if anyone can think of a reason as to why real world trading is/was bad other than "omg it devalues my achievement" I'd be glad to hear it and willing to accept that real world trading is a bad thing.

 

 

 

So basically what is being said is that if you are not breaking the rule for the reason which it was put there for, then you are in the clear. (The RWT rule is there to prevent devaluing achievements and this is supposedly "invalid".)

 

 

 

It's the same thing as saying it's okay to bug abuse because you are "technically" not spoiling the game since there are unfair things in Runescape - making the reason it's against the rules "invalid".

 

 

 

I guess it must also be "okay" to use offensive language until you actually offend someone. That must mean it's "okay" to encourage rule-breaking too unless someone actually obeys you. Heck, this means you can practically break any rule you want.

If you do not offend someone when you say something, it cannot be considered offensive. Furthermore, there are many things that can be offensive to a particular player but not in the eyes of JaGex so it is allowed.

 

 

 

Bugs, some of them are not harmful to the game in my opinion and as long as every player is able to do the bug then it can't be considered an unfair advantage. But at the same time there are bugs where not everyone can do it (like the killing of other players in falador) and it is bugs like those that are not ok to use/abuse.

 

 

 

I'm not saying it's ok to real world trade, I realize it's against the rules. What I am saying is that those who did/do real world trade were not really doing anything harmful to the game or to the players of it (thus we should not go around hating them).

[Bloodkay]

Okay, you say it devalues achievements? Well I say it devalues the game in general to me.

 

You can't really compare receiving a D legs drop to buying 3mil. Because where does that 3mil come from? More than likely it's bots. With people botting like crazy to make gold to sell, it fills up certain training spots and lower prices of the items I'm trying to sell. Yews bots were always where ever yews were to be found. They devalued the game for me because I wasn't enjoying the fact that I had to share a tree with player-made robots by players who are too lazy to cut yews themselves. It also devalued the game for me because it lowered yew prices a lot (bottom I think was about 180 per log).

 

 

 

I actually couldn't care less about RWTer's buying a damn Phat with gold they didn't earn themselves while I chose to make it all by wcing.

 

I care about competing with 3-4 bots in every place on every world.

 

 

 

THAT is how it devalues the game for me ~

[anim7]

Okay, you say it devalues achievements? Well I say it devalues the game in general to me.

 

You can't really compare receiving a D legs drop to buying 3mil. Because where does that 3mil come from? More than likely it's bots. With people botting like crazy to make gold to sell, it fills up certain training spots and lower prices of the items I'm trying to sell. Yews bots were always where ever yews were to be found. They devalued the game for me because I wasn't enjoying the fact that I had to share a tree with player-made robots by players who are too lazy to cut yews themselves. It also devalued the game for me because it lowered yew prices a lot (bottom I think was about 180 per log).

 

 

 

I actually couldn't care less about RWTer's buying a damn Phat with gold they didn't earn themselves while I chose to make it all by wcing.

 

I care about competing with 3-4 bots in every place on every world.

 

 

 

THAT is how it devalues the game for me ~

 

 

 

Good argument. I think thats what madmanpur3 was looking for.

 

 

 

Adding on... RWT and macroing are inherently connected because without RWT, macroers couldnt exist and vice versa. The problem before dec 10 was the huge number of macroers which were ruining the game. If you were f2p, you would probably kill yourself whenever you saw 10+ auto bots at every yew tree. It ruined the game and the economy by lowering prices...add too many resources like willows and yews...etc.

 

 

 

Like I said, without one, the other cannot flourish, so take out free trade = take out RWT = take out autoers.

 

There were so many autoers, so banning did not work as well as Dec10. Sure I lost the ability to merchant, but look on the bright side. The game was made better.

 

 

 

Madmanpur3: I read all your posts and you made the distinction between credit fraud, macros and RWT. However, bloodkay and I believe that those categories are all linked closely, so RWT gets a bad rep.