The Two Faced Beast

[Scorpio628]

To explain the meaning of my title please refer to this quote:

 

"Q) Kiper1 - What else will be done to combat Real World Trading (such as using junk to transfer gold between accounts, or people using bounty hunter to transfer money)?

 

A) I dont consider junk trading a problem. I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want. I see it as a good thing! Bounty Hunter is going to be further tweaked."

 

 

 

In particular this part:

 

"I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want."

 

 

 

 

 

These are direct quotes of Andrew's answers in the 17-Feb-2009 Wilderness and Real-World Trading Q&A. So I'm sure you can imagine my confusion and subsequent outrage upon finding that several items have received price caps in the G.E. just today (3-3-09). Items such as chickens, meat, hammer, chisel, bucket, lockpick, bread, and many more.

 

 

 

What I want to know is why were these caps have been instated and why we are being lied to. There was some news released today however they neglected to mention this little fact. It seems quite two faced, not to mention wildly inappropriate, of them to do this after Andrew's comments some 14 days prior.

 

 

 

Finally let me say that I do not real world trade and never have however, I am quite upset about these new price caps for several reasons: firstly anyone who might have been in possession of any of these items at the time will find their wealth greatly diminished, second this removes a lot of the freedom of the market and could be merely a foreshadowing of horrific things to come, third these new price caps damage new players restricting the value of some of the items they can obtain and use as they are just starting, fourth these new price caps are such that many of these items will not be sold as they were before(who will bother to sell the G.E. chisels for the same price they bought them at? or perhaps more importantly where will you get your raw chickens for summoning etc. I do not relish the thought of going out and hunting them personally, basically it will not be worth it for people to provide these items to the G.E.) and finally we have been lied to...

 

 

 

Where is the trust Andrew? =(

 

 

 

A worried player,

 

Scorpio628

[compfreak847]

Interestingly enough, those changes fit precisely into Andrew's statement - with new crazily undervalued yet easily obtainable items like chicken, it will be very easy to get around the trade limit for loaning or buying items with incorrect price, and it greatly benefits anyone with those items. It does, however, screw over people who wanted to buy them for themselves - now they'll have to pay a premium. And it does seem kind of counter-productive to anti-RWT. It does, however, fit exactly into Andrews statement - so you might want to change your title.

[mister_moocky]

What bugs me is that he basiclaly says that "junk trading adds value to said junk items".... what? Junk items are overvalued, not undervalued, It's what makes junk junk. Using items as throw-away trade limit 'space' does not make them in any more demand, or make them any more valuable. The only items that need higher price floors are cluescroll rewards; with other items it's just stupid.

[compfreak847]

It adds value, meaning it takes a worthless item and gives it a value. Junk has a value, it's just not equivalent to the market price - the very fact that it's "junk" gives it that value. I can borrow an AGS 5 hours for 500k and get junk, then turn around and give that junk away with claws for 5 hours. I'm not actually paying 500k cash for nothing but the AGS - the junk has value as a trade item.

[Sir_Kurity]

I laughed.

 

 

 

Imagine all those people people who brought those chickens for summoning.

 

 

 

More importantly, imagine people who are going to try and buy those chickens for summoning...

[Abc1230]

junk is junk.

 

All of those things really are junk... oh well

[Sir_Kurity]

Chickens are used in summoning, seems pretty unjunky to me.

[Dire_Wolf]

A step towards a bad game.

[ixfd64]

Jagex did say that items will never rise above a shop's selling price or fall below its buying price.

 

 

 

Prices are entirely set by players trading! There is no 'set value' that prices are based on, with the exception that a price will never rise above a shop's main stock price, or fall below the price a shop will pay for it. Note that shops will adjust their prices according to the Grand Exchange, so it is extraordinarily difficult to make a quick profit by buying from the shops and selling on the Grand Exchange and vice versa.

 

 

 

However, Jagex also made exceptions for certain unstackable items:

 

 

 

Maximum price cap change

 

 

 

Many non-stacking items are considered to be worth more than they cost in a shop. This is because it can take a long time to ferry these items from the shop to your bank. The Grand Exchange will now account for this, and therefore the maximum price cap for these items has been raised.

 

 

 

Apparently, Jagex has gone back on its word.

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Apparently, Jagex has gone back on its word.

 

You all can stop whining about Jagex being the evil liars.

 

 

 

Many non-stacking items are considered to be worth more than they cost in a shop.

 

Have they made a poor choice in this TINY area of a couple of rarely used items? Possibly. Have they lied, cheated, defrauded, or otherwise swindled us? No :roll:

[ixfd64]

Items like raw bird meat and harpoons aren't "rarely used" (or should I say, "rarely bought") because they are summoning ingredients.

[compfreak847]

 

Items like raw bird meat and harpoons aren't "rarely used" (or should I say, "rarely bought") because they are summoning ingredients.

 

Used mostly at low levels, who got their own. Before the update they were almost always very difficult\impossible to buy. It's not the 'end of Runescape' scenario advocated by certain posters.

[Sir_Kurity]

Yes, but many of these items DO have market value, and many people are willing to pay up to 10 times the price they are now for them, simply for the sake of convenience.

[compfreak847]

 

Yes, but many of these items DO have market value, and many people are willing to pay up to 10 times the price they are now for them, simply for the sake of convenience.

 

Exactly - but they were hardly ever used for that before, generally being unbuable or crashing, with the rich, high level players never needing them. They are a fringe item, with little impact on the economy.

[Moogel]

To explain the meaning of my title please refer to this quote:

 

"Q) Kiper1 - What else will be done to combat Real World Trading (such as using junk to transfer gold between accounts, or people using bounty hunter to transfer money)?

 

A) I dont consider junk trading a problem. I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want. I see it as a good thing! Bounty Hunter is going to be further tweaked."

 

 

 

In particular this part:

 

"I am actually quite happy that it is making those junk items perceived as more valuable. It doesnt allow real-world trading, but does let people do the trades they want."

 

 

 

 

 

These are direct quotes of Andrew's answers in the 17-Feb-2009 Wilderness and Real-World Trading Q&A. So I'm sure you can imagine my confusion and subsequent outrage upon finding that several items have received price caps in the G.E. just today (3-3-09). Items such as chickens, meat, hammer, chisel, bucket, lockpick, bread, and many more.

 

 

 

What I want to know is why were these caps have been instated and why we are being lied to. There was some news released today however they neglected to mention this little fact. It seems quite two faced, not to mention wildly inappropriate, of them to do this after Andrew's comments some 14 days prior.

 

 

 

Finally let me say that I do not real world trade and never have however, I am quite upset about these new price caps for several reasons: firstly anyone who might have been in possession of any of these items at the time will find their wealth greatly diminished, second this removes a lot of the freedom of the market and could be merely a foreshadowing of horrific things to come, third these new price caps damage new players restricting the value of some of the items they can obtain and use as they are just starting, fourth these new price caps are such that many of these items will not be sold as they were before(who will bother to sell the G.E. chisels for the same price they bought them at? or perhaps more importantly where will you get your raw chickens for summoning etc. I do not relish the thought of going out and hunting them personally, basically it will not be worth it for people to provide these items to the G.E.) and finally we have been lied to...

 

 

 

Where is the trust Andrew? =(

 

 

 

A worried player,

 

Scorpio628

 

 

 

Because like I said before, and I'll say it again; Andrew Gower is a lying son of a cabbage :shame:

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Because like I said before, and I'll say it again; Andrew Gower is a lying son of a cabbage :shame:

 

He told the truth, even took extra steps to back it up :roll:

[unjustblood]

Maple longs (u) are still good junk.

 

They are actually going UP

 

 

 

http://itemdb-rs.runescape.com/viewitem.ws?obj=62

[compfreak847]

Please. It's what, 100k per hour? I can make over 800k at avansies. Only a fool would try to make longs, your sacrificing 700k per hour because your too stupid to realize it.

[Torlen]

It adds value, meaning it takes a worthless item and gives it a value. Junk has a value, it's just not equivalent to the market price - the very fact that it's "junk" gives it that value. I can borrow an AGS 5 hours for 500k and get junk, then turn around and give that junk away with claws for 5 hours. I'm not actually paying 500k cash for nothing but the AGS - the junk has value as a trade item.

 

 

 

You're misunderstanding the point of junk. I can buy 1000 maple logs, fletch them into unstrung maple bows, and suddenly I tripled the value of my original investment. These bows WILL NOT SELL on the GE. They have 0 trade value, only GE value which is why they make excellent placeholders.

 

 

 

In response to your post about how spending time making junk is "stupid", what about slayers (I know you think it's a terrible skill, try to stay on topic with your post) who end up with thousands of coins worth of adamant javelins or other crap (hundreds of thousands of fire runes) that will not sell in the GE? Should I just let them rot away in my bank, or should I pawn them off onto someone who wants my ags for a few hours?

 

 

 

Also, 500k in junk for an item you will only temporarily have doesn't give the item you handed over value. They are going to get the item back. In effect, they gave claws to you for free for a couple hours so they could make more money off them later.

 

 

 

Please. It's what, 100k per hour? I can make over 800k at avansies. Only a fool would try to make longs, your sacrificing 700k per hour because your too stupid to realize it.

 

 

 

And how will that 800k help me lend out my items? Again, you're missing the point of the original post.

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but you should also try to be less condescending in your replies :-/ I'm sure I'm not the only person who cringes when they see that you've replied to a topic.

[compfreak847]

Your completely missing the point of MY post. I'm saying that making 'junk' for 100k per hour is stupid. You could get 800k coins at Avansies, and then loan your GS out with the coins as junk and STILL be making 8 times what you do with your 'junk'. It was a way of hammering home my point; you can go the roundabout way of lending and make 100k GP per hour, or you can go to avansies and make 800k per hour.

 

 

 

It's all well and good if you already have junk, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the folly of 'making' junk at far lower rates then you could make real GP, something many people don't seem to grasp.

 

 

 

And yes, my posts do tend to be arrogant. I generally come off as arrogant when I'm arguing, as I usually am on tip.it. It doesn't carry over into real life, I'm really a nice person. Seriously :P

 

 

 

(Besides that, I've had to deal with quite a few 'dumb' posts from people who refuse to read any of my responses. It gets annoying. :-# )