Price Manipulation - The Rant.

[Lap]

To start off, I would like to explain "Price Manipulation".

 

 

 

Questions and Answers:

 

 

 

Q:What is price manipulation?

 

A:Price manipulation is the creation of false demand for an object. Example "Only 20 people can use item A, however, there are 300 of A available. Supply is greater than demand. A group of people decide to manipulate the price (AKA "merch") item A. The group of "merchanters" put in an offer in the grand exchange to buy 600 of item A. Demand now exceeds supply. This forces the price of item A to go up. The "merchanters" then "dump" (sell) the item at a set point (which is usually never reached). Upon doing so the price will begin to crash. For an example of a grand exchange chart, take a look at ranging amulets.

 

 

 

Q:How does this affect me?

 

A:No matter what you are doing, price manipulation CAN affect you. Items you may need can reach very high prices for absolutely no reason other than to make some quick GP for others. As an example, look at iron ore. Iron ore is currently 200gp, which is double the price iron ore has been for over 3 years. This is detrimental to smithers, who now notice that their skill has increased in price to level. Armour (especially barrows) is constantly put through this process.

 

 

 

Q:Is it reportable?

 

A:Not that I know of, however Jagex's official position has been to tell others NOT to partake in price manipulation, as they may lose large amounts of money.

 

 

 

Q:What is being done to stop price manipulation?

 

A:Jagex has yet to do anything about it.

 

 

 

Q:Is there a difference between price manipulation and "investing"?

 

A:Yes, there is. Investing is when one buys a large amount of an item, but instead of forcing the item to go up with False demand, the investor will just follow the natural "curve" of the items price graph. Merching or price manipulation is usually over a shorter period of time, while investing can be a process which takes months to profit greatly.

 

 

 

Q:Are the price increases of ALL items caused by merchanting?

 

A:Not at all. Inflation caused by an excess amount of gold in the economy (which is currently happening due to 76king) raises ALL prices in general. As people are able to afford more items, the price generally goes up for an item. If you take a look at the 180 day increase of most items, a somewhat "J" shape occurs, this is inflation. Summer is usually a time when price inflation occurs most rampantly, due to most of the RS population being out of school, and able to play more.

 

 

 

The Rant

 

AMG! MAH DR4G0N BONES R COSTS OVR 9000 NAU, I CNT PRAYER!"

 

 

 

Just walk into the Grand Exchange in world 2. Other than the massive amount of buyers and sellers of items, you will always ALWAYS see something like "JOIN [CLAN CHAT] AND MAKE MILS", usually in a glow3:wave style or something similar. This spam of clan chat advertisements is usually annoying to look at, but can be easily turned off. A few months ago, I thought "Hey, maybe I can try this thing out right?". So I joined a clan chat. I read some tips in the RSOF about how to avoid "scam merch clans". After reading this post, I believed I was safe. So I waited for a new merch to start in this certain clan chat.

 

 

 

A week of waiting finally brought a new merch item, dagon'hai robes. I thought "okay! time to buy some". So I managed to get my hands on about 5 sets for a price of 250k. Eventually the price went up to 750k, and I finally sold all of my sets, for a healthy profit. I instantly thought "WOW! Merching R0X!". I checked RSOF to see if any other merch clans were as successful. I went into the Items section of the forums, and noticed 4 or 5 threads about the dagon hai robes. I opened one up and saw a quester complaining about the price, seeing as you need a set to complete WGS. Other threads were similar, and I just simply thought 'Whatever, I made money, not my problem".

 

 

 

That is the problem though. I, in my greed, brought the price of a needed item up, just so I could profit. Although I only had 5 sets, I still contributed to the rise. See, that's the problem, people are selfish, and this trait is only heightened with merch clans. Well, that's just general greed pretty much, and everyone wants to get as much GP in this game as possible, for status/better armour. So where am I going with this? That price manipulation affects the economy negatively.

 

 

 

A lot of of arguments for price manipulation have been somewhat like this "Grand Exchange is like the stock market, so you can make the price go up just like the normal market!". This is untrue, in the real stock market, there are rules against what is called "insider trading", which is basically what merchanting is.

 

 

 

Some people have said that to fix this problem, to institute a "set-price" system of sort, where a price will NOT fluctuate. This is more harmful than helpful, as there is no way of telling if an item is selling, buying, etc... I have no clue on how to stop price manipulation other than to do something about the leaders of clans. However, until Jagex pursues any form of action, merchanting will run rampant and idiots will continue (as they have always done) to control the runescape economy.

 

 

 

If anyone has any ideas, I will gladly edit them in the post.

 

 

 

*I will edit in pictures.

[fenrir321]

To start off, I would like to explain "Price Manipulation".

 

 

 

Questions and Answers:

 

 

 

Q:What is price manipulation?

 

A:Price manipulation is the creation of false demand for an object. Example "Only 20 people can use item A, however, there are 300 of A available. Supply is greater than demand. A group of people decide to manipulate the price (AKA "merch") item A. The group of "merchanters" put in an offer in the grand exchange to buy 600 of item A. Demand now exceeds supply. This forces the price of item A to go up. The "merchanters" then "dump" (sell) the item at a set point (which is usually never reached). Upon doing so the price will begin to crash. For an example of a grand exchange chart, take a look at ranging amulets.

 

Merchanting is not and has never been affiliated with price manipulation. They are SEPARATE terms. Merchanting and investing are synonyms, not manipulation

 

Q:How does this affect me?

 

A:No matter what you are doing, price manipulation CAN affect you. Items you may need can reach very high prices for absolutely no reason other than to make some quick GP for others. As an example, look at iron ore. Iron ore is currently 200gp, which is double the price iron ore has been for over 3 years. This is detrimental to smithers, who now notice that their skill has increased in price to level. Armour (especially barrows) is constantly put through this process.

 

The effect is the same as if the demand had increased naturally. the only difference is now you can point the finger at someone.

 

Q:Is it reportable?

 

A:Not that I know of, however Jagex's official position has been to tell others NOT to partake in price manipulation, as they may lose large amounts of money.

 

Correct. I also believe price manipulation is against the law in real life, but I could be wrong.

 

Q:What is being done to stop price manipulation?

 

A:Jagex has yet to do anything about it.

 

The main source of manipulation are the "merchanting" clans. These clans as the rsof post states (here) are similar to a ponzi scheme in that the one's who initiate the scam are the profiteers and those left behind lose money. These things whip up a lot of trouble but eventually spin themselves into death because people catch on. It's like a cycle of life. This will not be the last time we see these clans on the rise.

 

Q:Is there a difference between price manipulation and "investing"?

 

A:Yes, there is. Investing is when one buys a large amount of an item, but instead of forcing the item to go up with False demand, the investor will just follow the natural "curve" of the items price graph. Merching or price manipulation is usually over a shorter period of time, while investing can be a process which takes months to profit greatly.

 

As I have stated before, you're mixing up your vocabulary.

 

Q:Are the price increases of ALL items caused by merchanting?

 

A:Not at all. Inflation caused by an excess amount of gold in the economy (which is currently happening due to 76king) raises ALL prices in general. As people are able to afford more items, the price generally goes up for an item. If you take a look at the 180 day increase of most items, a somewhat "J" shape occurs, this is inflation. Summer is usually a time when price inflation occurs most rampantly, due to most of the RS population being out of school, and able to play more.

 

You're forgetting that more people = more supply because more people are slaying, crafting, etc. which would decrease prices.

 

The Rant

 

AMG! MAH DR4G0N BONES R COSTS OVR 9000 NAU, I CNT PRAYER!"

 

 

 

Just walk into the Grand Exchange in world 2. Other than the massive amount of buyers and sellers of items, you will always ALWAYS see something like "JOIN [CLAN CHAT] AND MAKE MILS", usually in a glow3:wave style or something similar. This spam of clan chat advertisements is usually annoying to look at, but can be easily turned off. A few months ago, I thought "Hey, maybe I can try this thing out right?". So I joined a clan chat. I read some tips in the RSOF about how to avoid "scam merch clans". After reading this post, I believed I was safe. So I waited for a new merch to start in this certain clan chat.

 

 

 

A week of waiting finally brought a new merch item, dagon'hai robes. I thought "okay! time to buy some". So I managed to get my hands on about 5 sets for a price of 250k. Eventually the price went up to 750k, and I finally sold all of my sets, for a healthy profit. I instantly thought "WOW! Merching R0X!". I checked RSOF to see if any other merch clans were as successful. I went into the Items section of the forums, and noticed 4 or 5 threads about the dagon hai robes. I opened one up and saw a quester complaining about the price, seeing as you need a set to complete WGS. Other threads were similar, and I just simply thought 'Whatever, I made money, not my problem".

 

 

 

That is the problem though. I, in my greed, brought the price of a needed item up, just so I could profit. Although I only had 5 sets, I still contributed to the rise. See, that's the problem, people are selfish, and this trait is only heightened with merch clans. Well, that's just general greed pretty much, and everyone wants to get as much GP in this game as possible, for status/better armour. So where am I going with this? That price manipulation affects the economy negatively.

 

So every time I invest my money into something that seems to rise or looks like it's about to rise is price manipulation? Riding the band wagon is risky but not wrong. Instigating the manipulation is wrong. Those who plan the rises should be banned. You merely responded to the manipulation. What the leaders did is actively changing the price. what you did was reactively respond to the price manipulation.

 

 

 

A lot of of arguments for price manipulation have been somewhat like this "Grand Exchange is like the stock market, so you can make the price go up just like the normal market!". This is untrue, in the real stock market, there are rules against what is called "insider trading", which is basically what merchanting is.

 

I know I've already said this and you haven't responded, but again MERCHANTING IS NOT MANIPULATION. This is again another reminder to edit your words. It slanders true merchanters who invest their money and don't instigate such things.

 

 

 

Some people have said that to fix this problem, to institute a "set-price" system of sort, where a price will NOT fluctuate. This is more harmful than helpful, as there is no way of telling if an item is selling, buying, etc... I have no clue on how to stop price manipulation other than to do something about the leaders of clans. However, until Jagex pursues any form of action, merchanting will run rampant and idiots will continue (as they have always done) to control the runescape economy.

 

Like I said above, the people who lose money in the clans will tell others who wil ltell others who wil ltell enough people to put a dent into the memberlist of those clans. Eventually, these clans will run themselves dry. Jagex does not need to do anything; we need to get off our butts and spread the word.

 

If anyone has any ideas, I will gladly edit them in the post.

 

 

 

*I will edit in pictures.

 

 

 

One last reminder:

 

Merchanting is not manipulation. They are not synonyms.

 

Saying this is like saying the cannons in BA make you lose points.

[Lap]

Thanks for the clarification :). I'm European so I know I probably mixed up a lot of words.

[quelmotz]

Let me clarify:

 

 

 

Merchanting is NOT Price Manipulation as far as I know.

 

 

 

Merchanting is a legitimate way of earning money. I.e. buy low sell high and trying to PREDICT (not manipulate) the market.

 

 

 

Price manipulation is illegal in many if not all countries. It's changing the price of an item through sheer force of people/clans buying the item down.

 

 

 

Though both involve buying items and selling them back to earn money, the process differentiates them.

[bubbyjoe2]

All that has to be done is to send a J-Mod to all major trading areas (especially the GE), find the clan chats which the clans are based in, temporarily ban the owners, kick everyone out of the chats, then close them off to all players. That would be enough to break up the clans.

[Moad14]

All that has to be done is to send a J-Mod to all major trading areas (especially the GE), find the clan chats which the clans are based in, temporarily ban the owners, kick everyone out of the chats, then close them off to all players. That would be enough to break up the clans.

 

That's a terrible suggestion, and it would never work. You think that they communicate only through RuneScape clan chats? Also, to do that to the people who run price manipulation clans is a bad solution. It'll just make a lot of people angry without fixing the problem.

[Jehosaphat]

All that has to be done is to send a J-Mod to all major trading areas (especially the GE), find the clan chats which the clans are based in, temporarily ban the owners, kick everyone out of the chats, then close them off to all players. That would be enough to break up the clans.

 

That's a terrible suggestion, and it would never work. You think that they communicate only through RuneScape clan chats? Also, to do that to the people who run price manipulation clans is a bad solution. It'll just make a lot of people angry without fixing the problem.

 

 

 

It'd probably turn out better if they just made the stupid clans and/or advertising for the stupid clans against the rules. Just get all the manipulators banned.

[fenrir321]

All that has to be done is to send a J-Mod to all major trading areas (especially the GE), find the clan chats which the clans are based in, temporarily ban the owners, kick everyone out of the chats, then close them off to all players. That would be enough to break up the clans.

 

That's a terrible suggestion, and it would never work. You think that they communicate only through RuneScape clan chats? Also, to do that to the people who run price manipulation clans is a bad solution. It'll just make a lot of people angry without fixing the problem.

 

 

 

It'd probably turn out better if they just made the stupid clans and/or advertising for the stupid clans against the rules. Just get all the manipulators banned.

 

Everything spreads by the word of mouth. Word would get around that (example) "Pk likes to Play" is actually a Price manipulating clan. Clan websites would be the "haven" from J-mods. People don't have to be in a cc to manipulate anyway. They can log in for 5 mins, buy up stuff and log off, a lot like how innocent players stock up on stuff and log out for something they'll do later.

 

 

 

Jagex's interference with the economy is the worst case scenario. The G.E. is quite reasonable and almost exactly like the real stock market, yet people still say Jagex is communist. What do you think would happen if Jagex interfered further? The best thing to do would be to not participate in manipulation and just let the clans run their course. The clans thrive on a certain amount of people losing money; money doesn't spontaneously generate in player to player contact. Someone's got to lose money in order for another to gain money, in that respect. That's why it's scamming according to Jagex. When people finally catch on, they won't want to join, will tell their friends who won't join until it snowballs into a protest against the clans. Clan leaders will finally learn that what they're doing won't work as well to be efficient and will give up.

 

 

 

There, problem solved without Jagex needing to interfere.

[Omali]

Jagex's interference with the economy is the worst case scenario. The G.E. is quite reasonable and almost exactly like the real stock market, yet people still say Jagex is communist. What do you think would happen if Jagex interfered further? The best thing to do would be to not participate in manipulation and just let the clans run their course. The clans thrive on a certain amount of people losing money; money doesn't spontaneously generate in player to player contact. Someone's got to lose money in order for another to gain money, in that respect. That's why it's scamming according to Jagex. When people finally catch on, they won't want to join, will tell their friends who won't join until it snowballs into a protest against the clans. Clan leaders will finally learn that what they're doing won't work as well to be efficient and will give up.

 

 

 

There, problem solved without Jagex needing to interfere.

 

 

 

These sudden bursts of justice don't happen, especially not in online games. There isn't going to be some player uprising against merchant clans, at least not an effective or noticeable one.

[fenrir321]

Jagex's interference with the economy is the worst case scenario. The G.E. is quite reasonable and almost exactly like the real stock market, yet people still say Jagex is communist. What do you think would happen if Jagex interfered further? The best thing to do would be to not participate in manipulation and just let the clans run their course. The clans thrive on a certain amount of people losing money; money doesn't spontaneously generate in player to player contact. Someone's got to lose money in order for another to gain money, in that respect. That's why it's scamming according to Jagex. When people finally catch on, they won't want to join, will tell their friends who won't join until it snowballs into a protest against the clans. Clan leaders will finally learn that what they're doing won't work as well to be efficient and will give up.

 

 

 

There, problem solved without Jagex needing to interfere.

 

 

 

These sudden bursts of justice don't happen, especially not in online games. There isn't going to be some player uprising against merchant clans, at least not an effective or noticeable one.

 

Self-righteous justice happens all the time. People can be quite monstrous when they can make a quick buck. But when it's they who are out of a bunch of money, those same people can sometimes turn to the opposite extreme. Of course, if they suddenly make money off of manipulation, even if they protested and advocated against it, they won't give a damn as long as they can make money. Maybe I went into an exaggerated prediction, but surely if you went to a website that seemed legit and got your money stolen, you wouldn't hesitate to tell your friends, right? Even if there is no public protest, the word of mouth is still a powerful weapon.

 

 

 

So, while justice rarely happens without the government or higher power interceding, a self-righteous justice can also form instead. And in this case, either one would solve the problem at hand.