Balance for Ad Sponsored Servers

[blackrazor]

EDIT: This topic was discussed in great detail, including a very lucrative financing option for Jagex (co-branding), so they would have financial incentive to implement these sorts of updates. Afterall, bottom line, money makes the world go round. Jagex needs to earn more from ASP, for them to be motivated to do more. And solutions to that were discussed! The discussion took place on the last three pages of a now locked topic, starting here. Please have a look, as these same discussions are very relevant to this thread, as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Balance for ad-sponsored servers

 

 

 

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In the old Runescape, the classic Runescape, play was balanced. Although features have been added for the newer ad-sponsored Runescape over the years, some of these have actually eroded the balance, making the ad-sponsored servers feel more like a demo, instead of the free standing (albeit inferior to members) game that it once was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would imagine that the sponsors who underwrite the banner version of the game wish for customer retention, in the same manner that Jagex wishes it for their premium version of the game. Here are some basic issues that I have seen creeping into the ad-sponsored version, that undermine its quality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't go 10 paces in an ad sponsored world, without clicking on something that responds with "you need to be on a member's world in order to do this". Are the sponsors aware that the game which they underwrite is infested with such clever mechanisms to encourage the playerbase to move to a member's world, where the sponsor will have no banner, and thus no revenue potential? Is Jagex aware that these little ploys make the ad sponsored player feel like they are playing a demo, instead of a free standing (albeit inferior to members) game?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I recommend that if Jagex wants to create more skills, more quests, more content for its members version, then it should place such things in the members portion of the map. There is ample space there. We ad sponsored players don't need our noses rubbed in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I know that some clever person will respond with: "Jagex does this to encourage people to play members, since Jagex gets more money that way." Well two things. One, neither you nor I really know how much money Jagex actually receives from a player that watches those banners for 20 or 30 hours a week, compared to the $1.16 per week ($5.00 / 4.3) they receive from subscriptions. I know that some companies offer free (lower quality) internet, or other rewards, based on being able to bombard you with ads whilest you partake of their service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ad sponsored services underwrite network television, many sporting and cultural events, and heavily trafficed websites, too, so please don't assume that there isn't real money there, assuming the numbers of customers are large. And Jagex does have the required numbers, I believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may well turn out that a player watching banners for 30 hours a week actually generates more gross revenue for Jagex than that $1.16/week subscription, but that heavy bandwidth use erases the net profit for both member and non-member in that situation. Perhaps Jagex only really makes money off of members that pay their sub fees, but that play very little, such as under 8 hours per week. Remember that hours played costs Jagex in bandwidth and in potential customer support issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And point two regarding the above, Jagex has a responsibility to the companies paying money to Jagex for their banner display service (ad sponsored servers). Jagex also, indirectly, has a responsibility to the players who watch those ads. Without us ad sponsored players, there would be no banner revenue stream for Jagex, and their current business model would collapse. So if Jagex wishes to give us an inferior version of their game, fine. But it should still conform to minimum standards of enjoyability, sustainability, and retention. The sponsors footing the bill should demand it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, as a general principal, ad sponsored players should have access to a balanced game, that while perhaps inferior to the member's version, is still self-supporting and free standing in its own right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are some skill and item changes that I propose, in order to achieve this goal:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Open up the chaos rune temple to ad sponsored play. Allow the ad sponsored monsters (lesser demons, etc.) to drop the chaos talisman on ad sponsored worlds. Add chaos runecrafting and chaos tiaras to the ad sponsored runecrafting skill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The logic here is that members magic is already orders of magnitude better, with ancient magics, god spells, battlestaves, uncraftable bloods, and craftable deaths. So giving ad sponsored players uncraftable deaths, but _craftable_ chaos, is a necessary thing to allow ad sponsored mages to sustain themselves, and still does nothing to undermine the basic superiority of the member's features in both runecrafting and magic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Add green dragons to ad sponsored servers. Allow ad sponsored crafters to make green dragon armor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ad sponsored range allows us to wear green dragon armor. It is rediculous that we cannot hunt it, nor craft it, in order to support ourselves. Members servers still get snakeskin, and red, blue, and black dragons and armor, so no danger of undermining members, either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Upgrade ad sponsored server range to yew bows and rune arrows. Remove maple bows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have yew trees. We have rune rocks. We have rune mining and smithing. We have range. So it makes sense that we would have yew bows and rune arrows, too. Members still get magic bows, crystal bows, darts, javelins, throwing axes, throwing knives, barbed bolts, ogre bows, cannon, and barrows ... so really no danger of undermining member's range, either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We ad sponsored players shouldn't get maple bows, since no maple trees grow on our servers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Add arrowhead smithing to the ad sponsored servers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arrowhead creation is an important tool to generate cash for smithers. It's an important cash sink to the game as well, since arrows generally get consumed, instead of being high-alched. If ad sponsored uses arrows, then we should be able to make the arrowheads to support ourselves, as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5) Add the fletching skill to ad sponsored servers. It should be limited to bows that have the corresponding trees on ad sponsored servers (ordinary, oak, willow, and yew). Also limited to arrows that have the corresponding rocks on ad sponsored servers to support them (bronze, iron, steel, mithril, addy, rune).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fletching was promised years ago, back in classic runescape, before members services were even implemented. If there is one new skill needed on ad sponsored servers, it would be fletching, since rangers need this, in order to be self-sufficient. Members still get agility, thieving, farming, slayer, herblore as exclusive skills, plus more things to do in most other skills, so the attraction of members for skilling should not be significantly impacted by this proposed change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6) Remove maple bows from the range stores. Add yew bows, instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It should match with the trees we have in ad sponsored play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7) Increase bank space by 3.5 full rows, so that there is room for proper skilling and rare collections, for the serious ad sponsored player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Additions to skills, random event rewards, holiday event rewards, and more complex gameplay have added the need for bank space over time. No need to squeeze ad sponsored play into a situation where they must choose to forgo options available to them, because of insufficient bank space.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Members still get much more bank space, so those going for the ultimate in storage needs will still find membership very attractive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets keep the ad sponsored worlds consistent, sustainable, self-supporting, and balanced. Please. Do it for the sponsors. Do it for the players. Do it for the great concept of this game, that was founded 5 years ago. Please.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I believe that ad sponsored player accounts with all of: 1+ years age, 1000+ skill total, no black marks should get posting privileges on RS official forums. Jagex can benefit from the input of experienced and well behaved players, whether they pay a monthly subscription, or not.

[hobobob7]

You morons need to understand that you don't get some things because YOU DON'T PAY!!!!! If you want those things you listed, then become a member.

[Zibl]

I recommend that if Jagex wants to create more skills, more quests, more content for its members version, then it should place such things in the members portion of the map. There is ample space there. We ad sponsored players don't need our noses rubbed in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1 - Your recommendation is not needed. Considering the fact members have recieved 2 new skills within the past 6 months. Not only that, but plans for 'Carpentry' has already been hinted at and set in motion if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 - 1 big advantage of being a member, is not having those annoying little flashy ads around your game screen. There is nothing more comfortable and easier than to have all your focus on JUST the screen. Instead of stupid little "Smack the Penguin for a phree Ipod Nano oh meh fawkin goodn3ss!" flashy thing grabbing your attention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I know that some clever person will respond with: "Jagex does this to encourage people to play members, since Jagex gets more money that way." Well two things. One, neither you nor I really know how much money Jagex actually receives from a player that watches those banners for 20 or 30 hours a week, compared to the $1.16 per week ($5.00 / 4.3) they receive from subscriptions. I know that some companies offer free (lower quality) internet, or other rewards, based on being able to bombard you with ads whilest you partake of their service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1 - Why would "watching" a banner bring in the money? Chances are, the people who own the banners are paying Jagex weekly to let them have their banners there because it is good advertisment. What I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter how many people are on for how long... Jagex gets the same amount of cash every week to host those banners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 - I could be wrong. And you could be right. But lets think. RS currently has 35 p2p servers. Hypothetically speaking, lets say that at some point in time, each server has 1k people on it. What's that come out to? 35,000 paying members on. Now of course, this number could be higher. We know EACH of those people payed at the least $5 every month. So in that ONE TIME that each p2p server had 1k people on it, we already know for a fact Jagex has made $175,000. This is for 1 month people... and this isn't counting the thousands of RSClassic members :roll: . afe to say no matter what Jagex gets for their Ads, it isn't near as much as they make off members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Without us ad sponsored players, there would be no banner revenue stream for Jagex, and their current business model would collapse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1 - I laugh at you. I'm serious. You are thinking WAY too highly about Ads. If that were the case, Jagex would probably have Ads for members too. Oh wait. We pay to NOT have them. You don't actually think the Ads they have generates even half of what us members generates do you? If so, I pitty the way you think. Chances are, the Ads on f2p generates enough money (probably more but not much more) to pay for ya'lls f***ing 54 servers :x .

[blackrazor]

Zibl and Hobobob ... I'm truly very sorry. Silly me. And here I was, thinking that this was the Runescape Discussions and Suggestions area. I must have been mistaken, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might help if you actually bother to read what I wrote, first. And then comment constructively. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time, and everyone else's.

[Zibl]

Zibl and Hobobob ... I'm truly very sorry. Silly me. And here I was, thinking that this was the Runescape Discussions and Suggestions area. I must have been mistaken, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might help if you actually bother to read what I wrote, first. And then comment constructively. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time, and everyone else's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I edited my post. Basicly to make you appear even more wrong than I did in my origional post :roll: . The only person who has wasted any time at all is you, another bummed out f2per, making a topic on how something that p2p has makes it unfair to you. Your complaints (not unlike most other f2pers on this type of topic) are informative, in the least, but are normally unwelcome and end in big flame wars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only support you will have is that of other f2pers who think, "Oh man. He is teh right! I dont want ads! I mean, if I gotta have em give em to the p2pers too!".

[blackrazor]

Well, Zibl edited his original post to contain actual comments this time, so let's have a look.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I recommend that if Jagex wants to create more skills, more quests, more content for its members version, then it should place such things in the members portion of the map. There is ample space there. We ad sponsored players don't need our noses rubbed in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1 - Your recommendation is not needed. Considering the fact members have recieved 2 new skills within the past 6 months. Not only that, but plans for 'Carpentry' has already been hinted at and set in motion if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 - 1 big advantage of being a member, is not having those annoying little flashy ads around your game screen. There is nothing more comfortable and easier than to have all your focus on JUST the screen. Instead of stupid little "Smack the Penguin for a phree Ipod Nano oh meh fawkin goodn3ss!" flashy thing grabbing your attention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you're on about here. I have no complaints about #1, we all know members will get more skills. I have no complaints about #2 either. Obviously the banners are the revenue for the ad sponsored servers so we can't complain there. My point was that plugs for the member's servers need not be all over the ad sponsored ones within the game. That was all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I know that some clever person will respond with: "Jagex does this to encourage people to play members, since Jagex gets more money that way." Well two things. One, neither you nor I really know how much money Jagex actually receives from a player that watches those banners for 20 or 30 hours a week, compared to the $1.16 per week ($5.00 / 4.3) they receive from subscriptions. I know that some companies offer free (lower quality) internet, or other rewards, based on being able to bombard you with ads whilest you partake of their service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1 - Why would "watching" a banner bring in the money? Chances are, the people who own the banners are paying Jagex weekly to let them have their banners there because it is good advertisment. What I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter how many people are on for how long... Jagex gets the same amount of cash every week to host those banners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 - I could be wrong. And you could be right. But lets think. RS currently has 35 p2p servers. Hypothetically speaking, lets say that at some point in time, each server has 1k people on it. What's that come out to? 35,000 paying members on. Now of course, this number could be higher. We know EACH of those people payed at the least $5 every month. So in that ONE TIME that each p2p server had 1k people on it, we already know for a fact Jagex has made $175,000. This is for 1 month people... and this isn't counting the thousands of RSClassic members :roll: . afe to say no matter what Jagex gets for their Ads, it isn't near as much as they make off members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Banners work like television commercials. Ad companies calculate how much they pay you based on how busy your site is, or how many "hits" it receives. You get paid extra if customers click the banners, too. So, the amount of cash Jagex receives will vary, based on how many customers are at the ad sponsored pages and servers, and if they click on the banners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your math is flawed in so many ways, I don't know where to start. Basically, Jagex gets money from banner hosting, and from subscriptions. Neither you nor I know the details. But the subs work out to a petty amount ($1.16) per week gross revenue. If a banner paid 1/10 of one cent, per estimated viewer, per 60 second show, then an ad sponsored viewer, playing for 30 hours a week, might generate ($0.001 x 60 x 30) $1.80 per week, gross revenue. I proposed that bandwidth and customer support costs for heavy users in either case might negate most profits, and that Jagex might only make substantial net profits on customers that pay the subs, but only go online for 8 hours, or less, a week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Without us ad sponsored players, there would be no banner revenue stream for Jagex, and their current business model would collapse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1 - I laugh at you. I'm serious. You are thinking WAY too highly about Ads. If that were the case, Jagex would probably have Ads for members too. Oh wait. We pay to NOT have them. You don't actually think the Ads they have generates even half of what us members generates do you? If so, I pitty the way you think. Chances are, the Ads on f2p generates enough money (probably more but not much more) to pay for ya'lls f***ing 54 servers :x .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You answered your own statement here. You pay a sub, in order not to have the banners. But those missing banners represent lost potential revenue to Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I think about banners is based on high traffic websites financing themselves with them. What I think about advertizing in general, is based on their deep pockets when it comes to network television, and sporting and cultural events. I know that companies exist that offer free internet, if you use their browser plugin (that subjects you to their banner ads), so I know that this business model is a viable one. What I don't pretend to know are the exact numbers, and quite frankly, neither do you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of the improvements I suggested for the free servers would serve to balance it. Members would retain it's huge advantage of more exclusive skills, more to accomplish with non-exclusive skills, more map to explore, more monsters, more quests, more bank space. Anyone choosing members would find it just as attractive, even if my suggestions were implemented. I was very careful not to suggest giving ad sponsored servers the best of anything, only the "throw-aways" the members don't even use, but that would serve to balance ad sponsored play. If you had bothered to read those parts, you hopefully would have noticed that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Making ad sponored play viable benefits everyone. It will increase customer rentention and market share. It will increase the player population. That means more ad revenue for Jagex, and more people trying out the member's version down the road.

[blackrazor]

 

Zibl and Hobobob ... I'm truly very sorry. Silly me. And here I was, thinking that this was the Runescape Discussions and Suggestions area. I must have been mistaken, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It might help if you actually bother to read what I wrote, first. And then comment constructively. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time, and everyone else's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I edited my post. Basicly to make you appear even more wrong than I did in my origional post :roll: . The only person who has wasted any time at all is you, another bummed out f2per, making a topic on how something that p2p has makes it unfair to you. Your complaints (not unlike most other f2pers on this type of topic) are informative, in the least, but are normally unwelcome and end in big flame wars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only support you will have is that of other f2pers who think, "Oh man. He is teh right! I dont want ads! I mean, if I gotta have em give em to the p2pers too!".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I'm not wasting anyone's time who has read the topic description, and has come in to participate. Those people who find this a waste of their time, need not come in, and need not participate. It's really their choice, not mine, and not yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not bummed out that members has more stuff. That is Jagex's call, and I'm fine with it. And contrary to what you write, I do not object to ads on the ad sponsored servers, since that is how they finance themselves. Jagex is a business afterall, not a charity. I also do not object to members being ad-free. That is part of the benefits that Jagex has chosen to give its members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I do object to, involves my memory of Runescape Classic. The ad sponsored version of RSC was a free standing, and balanced thing. That was good for business. Over time, the ad sponsored version of the new Runescape, has come to look more and more like a demo, a walking advertisement for the members version. I am proposing changes designed to maintain the appeal of members, while at the same time bringing balance and functionality back to the ad sponsored roots from which it sprang.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that you are very arrogant to presume that these intentions would be unwelcome. This is not a begging topic for "more f2p stoofs", but a careful analysis of a situation that has degraded from a previous norm, with accompanying proposals for its restoration. The last thing I want is a flame war. I want calm, well thought out, discussions, be they for or against. Could you please do your part, and help with that? Thanks.

[archimage_a]

You are telling the truth this is a careful analysis, but you have missed a few key points:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Members have as much right to use the free worlds as they want, we need to use the free area sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Working out who earns a profeit and from what is pointless, there is approximatly 1-2 million players, approximatly 1/4 are p2p give between 2500000 and 1250000 US Dollars a month, the other 3/4 are on which is 17500000-7500000 people, to influance that many people companys pay a fair bit advertive say over all a total of 10000000US dollars a month. With all the costs and rubbish on top of that they turn a large profeit, they are able to self-sustain, this means that if they were suddenly to lose all of its members it could still survive (Freak accident deleated all of the member infomation) on advertivements, and if the opposite happened they could survive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P desever a few updates now and then but fletching is not, it was the first members only skill, it is not required or needed by F2P I hardly use it because Im not a ranger, you can buy arrows its not that hard to rasie a bit of money on rs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you wanted more bows then boo hoo its members only jagex is not likely to do that as if they show weakness everyone wants more stuff, and there in lies the real reason that jagex won't give you anything.

[AThousandLies]

You are telling the truth this is a careful analysis, but you have missed a few key points:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Members have as much right to use the free worlds as they want, we need to use the free area sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Working out who earns a profeit and from what is pointless, there is approximatly 1-2 million players, approximatly 1/4 are p2p give between 2500000 and 1250000 US Dollars a month, the other 3/4 are on which is 17500000-7500000 people, to influance that many people companys pay a fair bit advertive say over all a total of 10000000US dollars a month. With all the costs and rubbish on top of that they turn a large profeit, they are able to self-sustain, this means that if they were suddenly to lose all of its members it could still survive (Freak accident deleated all of the member infomation) on advertivements, and if the opposite happened they could survive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P desever a few updates now and then but fletching is not, it was the first members only skill, it is not required or needed by F2P I hardly use it because Im not a ranger, you can buy arrows its not that hard to rasie a bit of money on rs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you wanted more bows then boo hoo its members only jagex is not likely to do that as if they show weakness everyone wants more stuff, and there in lies the real reason that jagex won't give you anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Herblore was the first members only skill.

[blackrazor]

You are telling the truth this is a careful analysis, but you have missed a few key points:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Members have as much right to use the free worlds as they want, we need to use the free area sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure members do, I agree with that. When members are on ASP worlds, they are treated the same as ASP. They get less features, they view the ads, thus earning Jagex more revenue. But they would have little reason to visit those worlds, if ASP didn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Working out who earns a profeit and from what is pointless, there is approximatly 1-2 million players, approximatly 1/4 are p2p give between 2500000 and 1250000 US Dollars a month, the other 3/4 are on which is 17500000-7500000 people, to influance that many people companys pay a fair bit advertive say over all a total of 10000000US dollars a month. With all the costs and rubbish on top of that they turn a large profeit, they are able to self-sustain, this means that if they were suddenly to lose all of its members it could still survive (Freak accident deleated all of the member infomation) on advertivements, and if the opposite happened they could survive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, you just proved my point on why it's so important to remind everyone of the earnings facts. Most people walk around believing that members earn Jagex all (or 99%) of their revenue, and thus they treat ASP like leeches and dirt, especially when ASP tries to advocate for themselves. Heck, many ASP have heard the misinformation for so long, that they believe themselves to be deserving of nothing, too. The only way to change that perception, is through education. And it appears to be having some positive effect, thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

F2P desever a few updates now and then but fletching is not, it was the first members only skill, it is not required or needed by F2P I hardly use it because Im not a ranger, you can buy arrows its not that hard to rasie a bit of money on rs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you wanted more bows then boo hoo its members only jagex is not likely to do that as if they show weakness everyone wants more stuff, and there in lies the real reason that jagex won't give you anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, again you're not a ranger, so you kind of answered your own question, there. But even if you were a ranger, you still might choose to buy your own arrows, although mithril and addy start to get quite expensive from the store.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But there's that key word again: _choice_

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A mellee type on ASP might also choose to buy his own equipment, instead of taking up mining and smithing. But he has the choice to do either, in order to support his profession. I certainly wouldn't want to see smithing and mining removed from ASP, just because armor and weapons are available in stores, or from members smithers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that we have a combat triangle, with the additional professions of mage and ranger to consider, I felt that they need the same choices of self-support traditionally enjoyed by mellee. Mellee used to be the only profession on RSC, with mellee variants, like Pure, and Prayer Beast. RS3D brought an expansion of professions; we need a corresponding expansion of skills to allow these new professions to choose their degree of self-support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This topic was discussed in great detail, including a very lucrative financing option for Jagex (co-branding), so they would have financial incentive to implement these sorts of updates. Afterall, bottom line, money makes the world go round. Jagex needs to earn more from ASP, for them to be motivated to do more. And solutions to that were discussed! The discussion took place on the last three pages of a now locked topic, starting here. Please have a look, as these same discussions are very relevant to this thread, as well.

[archimage_a]

Its all choice

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jagex is not likely to do that as if they show weakness everyone wants more stuff, and there in lies the real reason that jagex won't give you anything.

This is most likely the only reason that f2p get nothing(that and they make money from p2ps on f2p severs and on the startup screen)

[blackrazor]

Please read my co-branding post:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=335006&start=76

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm giving Jagex a very real financial incentive to update ASP. This incentive probably won't appeal to members, but it won't reduce the disirability of members, either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, it will motivate the ad sponsored players, in droves, to earn some powerful commissons-based ad revenue for Jagex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All Jagex needs to do, is to work with their current sponsors, attract new ones, and implement the co-branding options for their sponsors and ASP. This shouldn't be too hard for Jagex, afterall, it's right in line with their current business model, so they are already well positioned to take full advantage of these ideas.

[archimage_a]

It is a good post I have read it before, what you fail to relise though is that humans are lazy, jagex turns a good profeit and if they do all this work then what, co-branding only goes for a few weeks then it is replaced, and adding xp for buy cans of drink? That is a terrible idea because you add this you get people who hack that and because people are getting loads of xp it just desides that is is normal and someone get lvl 99 in loads of things for this very reason, so No this is a bad idea and maynot work it has a small chance but in the end its too much trouble for a minute profiet

[idiot911]

You mentioned how you want the throwaways, but I don't think fletching yew longs or making addy arrows or killing green dragons is a throwaway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Green dragons are the best monster to kill for prayer/good money making, and everyone makes yew longs for fletching xp/alching. Addy arrows/rune arrows are the fastest fletching xp ingame. Jagex doesn't have maple trees implimented on f2p because they are really good wc xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing about ad sponsered servers is a lot of those people are content with what they are given. Until adviewing players go on strike because they aren't getting enough updates, then nothing will be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rune arrows are the most used p2p range item... they won't go f2p, nor would that help the triangle any.

[archimage_a]

maybe F2P could get stuff like the games room which we never use.

[blackrazor]

It is a good post I have read it before, what you fail to relise though is that humans are lazy, jagex turns a good profeit and if they do all this work then what, co-branding only goes for a few weeks then it is replaced, and adding xp for buy cans of drink? That is a terrible idea because you add this you get people who hack that and because people are getting loads of xp it just desides that is is normal and someone get lvl 99 in loads of things for this very reason, so No this is a bad idea and maynot work it has a small chance but in the end its too much trouble for a minute profiet

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex is one of the least lazy MMO companies I have ever seen. They update the member's product on a weekly basis, which requires considerable organization and effort, and well demonstrates their positive work ethic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Co-branding is not a one shot deal. It is an ongoing thing, that can be tied to numerous products, across numerous different sponsors. It will give Jagex incentive to keep adding things to ASP, because they will profit from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine a co-branding campaign with Wendy's (known for their baked pototoes as fast food), or Fritos (major fried chips company), giving the ASP characters the ability to make pot of cream, pat of butter, cheese, baked potato, potato with butter, potato with cheese. Each coupon opens up the next skill option, so 6 coupons (6 purchases) are required to open them all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, and this is VERY important:

 

 

 

====================

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I _never_ suggested that the coupons would directly give xp or items. Coupons should never be used by Jagex that way, or it would ruin the game, by undermining the work of players in their skills. But I also think that Jagex already knows this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The coupons are only for unlocking new selective skills-based updates on ASP. You might unlock an ability in fletching, but you would have to actually fletch in order to gain xp in it, and items from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all members updates should be available to ASP co-branding campaigns, either. Jagex probably wants to keep member's benefits at a higher level, in order to maintain the subscription revenue stream. I totally agree with the wisdom in that; it allows Jagex to have its cake and eat it, too.

[Barihawk]

To all the people flaming "OMG F2P NO PAY NO UPDATE!!!!!11", get the heck out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the discussions and suggestions thread. If you have nothing critical to say, then leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I must say that this is the best thread on the subject I have ever seen, and it brings up good points. I would not mind seeing a few of these ideas realized.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not like your suggestion that free areas should stop recieving members quests. I am personally fond of the city of Falador and love the storyline surrounding it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for fletching, why not? The problem there is that the free area does not have a flax field. Either one would have to be added, or the flax and bowstrings would be allowed to be tradable from p2p servers. Unfortunately, the latter would completely screw over the p2p economy. As it stands, flax is a major money supply for noobs. Making them the sole supplier for flax and bowstring production to f2p would for one destroy the flax market supply to members (would you rather sell bowstrings 100 each to a member, or 500 each to desperate free-players?) and create a lot of money in an already unstable market. We already have enough players alching yew longs for millions of gp, we dont need an even larger amount doing it as well. Expect your preacious party hats to go over 100 million if that were allowed to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chaos crafting...all for it. Its a hard thing to do, and the rune market needs to be balanced a little more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arrowhead smithing, falls under the same belief as fletching. No worries about market crashes or anything, but you would need the fletching skill for it to be of any use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Green dragons...why not? Well, unfortunately those are one of the most killed dragons in p2p, and would crash a small market of hide sales. If f2p should recieve any dragon, it would be the red dragons. You guys would eagerly slaughter them with your new high powered bows, and the market would come back from the ashes. You wouldnt be able to craft the red hides (if you do, it says "maybe a member could better do this"), but hopefully the stock of green hides at Oziach and the Champion's guild could be raised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bank space is an issue best left to Jagex. I would rather have them give members more, but that is thier call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the free game to be a demo, it is not. It is the full version of the game. Members is the expansion series. Jagex has made that clear on countless times. Free players pay for the game with ad views and clicks, which produces quite a bit of revenue. Members pay extra for the salaries and equipment used to produce the new updates.

[archimage_a]

Right so some strange american company(I'm British and proud) pays jagex to advertise on the site, at the same time jagex gets to stick tokens on the side of something. These tokens are required to gain new skills, and so someone living in europe will not be able to get the new stuff. Great plan, more great american thinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But anyway the company get a few more people buying their stuff and jagex gets a one off large payment(maybe more later but for the intense and purposes) and about 1/3 of the f2p gat free member stuff. jagex would have to get alot of money and even then they make a potenial loss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A nice idea would be a lotto simply put 1 or 2 people from f2p get a week or something free membership, the catch is that the person has to have been playing at least a year, has to have 950+total lvl and has to be completely free of any breaking of the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That way jagex loses nothing at all

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or the idea that once a year jagex give everyone one free day of membership, just so the people who can't afford membership can have a go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This way though jagex loses somthing like 25k *ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã0.10

[blackrazor]

You mentioned how you want the throwaways, but I don't think fletching yew longs or making addy arrows or killing green dragons is a throwaway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Green dragons are the best monster to kill for prayer/good money making, and everyone makes yew longs for fletching xp/alching. Addy arrows/rune arrows are the fastest fletching xp ingame. Jagex doesn't have maple trees implimented on f2p because they are really good wc xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing about ad sponsered servers is a lot of those people are content with what they are given. Until adviewing players go on strike because they aren't getting enough updates, then nothing will be done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rune arrows are the most used p2p range item... they won't go f2p, nor would that help the triangle any.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Make Green Dragons on ASP not drop dragon bones. They can drop giant bones, or burnt bones, or even no bones, instead. Problem solved. We need the dragons for the green dragonhide crafting, not the other member's benefits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know why maple tree aren't in ASP. I agree with it, too. Notice that I suggested leaving maple (including the trees) entirely out of ASP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True that yew longs are good for fletching xp and alching, so I guess it isn't a throw-away as far as training goes. But what is training for? Higher levels to make magic bows (and other cool member's only fletching items), right? Well, ASP won't be able to make those items with their inferior fletching skill, so the point is moot, as far as ASP is concerned. The same argument applies to addy and rune arrows, as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus, arrows used for leveling is great for the economy. It produces a consumable item that is rarely high alched, so less gold pieces flows into the economy for the time spent in this activity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ASP are content because they are misinformed about how much they contribute to the Jagex bottom line. ASP are convinced (because they have been told for so long) that they are worthless and undeserving. Once that knowledge changes, so too will their expectations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And ASP don't have to quit. Showing Jagex a better way (co-branding) to make even more money, by updating ASP, may turn out to be even more effective.

[archimage_a]

Maybe you could get some stuff (Im all for jagex giving nice updates to f2p but I think that relisticaly...) But fletching is going to far:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Herblore you have in the apocathry

 

 

 

Theving is basicly money making and not really that great

 

 

 

Slayer Is the most useless skill ever

 

 

 

Aglitily is only good for speeding up running speed(which if you have trained you can still use of f2p)

 

 

 

Fletching is runecrafting for rangers, it is becoming more important for f2p because of the ranger shop in rimminton as this promoted lots of f2p to get up ranging but have now lost money

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all terms I Think that giving f2p more stuff is great... not gonna happen but great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that f2p plays an extremely important part in rs just as the common worker(me) plays a vital part in making money that people high up the chain(merchants) trade about

[blackrazor]

As for fletching, why not? The problem there is that the free area does not have a flax field. Either one would have to be added, or the flax and bowstrings would be allowed to be tradable from p2p servers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Green dragons...why not? Well, unfortunately those are one of the most killed dragons in p2p, and would crash a small market of hide sales. If f2p should recieve any dragon, it would be the red dragons. You guys would eagerly slaughter them with your new high powered bows, and the market would come back from the ashes. You wouldnt be able to craft the red hides (if you do, it says "maybe a member could better do this"), but hopefully the stock of green hides at Oziach and the Champion's guild could be raised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that ASP would need a flax field. Maybe in draynor? Or maybe in the swamps south of Lumbridge? Lots of fields there already. I don't want flax prices to go crazy, nor do I want ASP dependent on members flax gatherers, that would ruin the whole point of achieving balance and self-reliance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always figured that if green dragons were killed lots on members, it would be because it's the fastest way to get dragon bones for prayer or merchanting. Kind of like the way giants and moss giants are popular on ASP. I don't understand why green hides would be in demand on members, afterall, blue, red, and black are all better quality, and probably give more xp to craft .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I figured that making the ASP green dragons not drop dragon bones, would solve that issue. We need the hides on ASP, so our rangers can choose to support themselves. Putting the hides (or finished product) in Oziach or Champions Guild doesn't really solve that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no point in giving us red dragons, since we can't even wear red dragonhide on ASP. I'm looking for ways that we can support what we have, currently.

[blackrazor]

Right so some strange american company(I'm British and proud) pays jagex to advertise on the site, at the same time jagex gets to stick tokens on the side of something. These tokens are required to gain new skills, and so someone living in europe will not be able to get the new stuff. Great plan, more great american thinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But anyway the company get a few more people buying their stuff and jagex gets a one off large payment(maybe more later but for the intense and purposes) and about 1/3 of the f2p gat free member stuff. jagex would have to get alot of money and even then they make a potenial loss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A nice idea would be a lotto simply put 1 or 2 people from f2p get a week or something free membership, the catch is that the person has to have been playing at least a year, has to have 950+total lvl and has to be completely free of any breaking of the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That way jagex loses nothing at all

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or the idea that once a year jagex give everyone one free day of membership, just so the people who can't afford membership can have a go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This way though jagex loses somthing like 25k *ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã0.10

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not even American :oops: Jagex uses IPs to target its ads by geographic region. I'm certain that there must be co-branding opportunities in your "neck of the woods", as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Co-branding is an ongoing thing, although the specific products and sponsors might change over time, as with current banner ad campaigns. There will always be new ASP characters entering the picture, hungry (pardon the pun, most of my co-branding examples have involved food) for upgrades to their skills allowance, and willing to buy some "Treacher's Fish 'n Chips", or the latest issue of "Dr. Fegg's Nasty Book", in order to gain access.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex loses nothing by this. ASP that train new skills use no extra bandwidth than they would otherwise use by training old skills. And they are still exposed to the same banner ads (traditional Jagex ASP revenue), and the same lure of members (which will always be better). So Jagex stands to only win, by using content that they have already developed, in order to gain extra, lucrative commissions based revenue from ASP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lotto, or one day per year for everyone to try members, would be fine, but it would earn Jagex no extra revenue from its sponsors. It might gain them more members, so it's not a bad idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Co-branding would give Jagex more upfront revenue, plus the happy players on ASP would also be more likely to explore the many more things available to them on members. The problem now, is that members has so much more stuff, that it's almost an entirely different game, and thus risks alieniating potential would-be customers that are currently ASP. But, give those ASP a taste of members, while collecting extra co-branding ad revenue from them, and they might be more tempted to try members, in order to get more and more of these good things that they are seeing. And even if most stay with ASP, Jagex still gets all that extra, ongoing, co-branding commissions based revenue. A whole new stream of money for them!

[archimage_a]

yes (im sorry for calling you american)

 

 

 

By making the f2p feel rejected it makes them want to become better, hence becoming a member

[blackrazor]

yes (im sorry for calling you american)

 

 

 

By making the f2p feel rejected it makes them want to become better, hence becoming a member

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NP ;) I have no problem with the U.S. either; I feel they have things of which they can be proud. But so do other regions of the world, as well. (But please let's not digress on this, I don't want this to be a political thread. Let's try to stay focused on ways to update ASP that profits Jagex.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole "humiliate them into members" theory focuses on abtracting a theory to fit the observed behavior. Sensible to a point, yes. But, I'd rather focus on what new behaviors we might observe, if new theories were tried.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In plainer english, I'd rather make an extra (co-branded) revenue stream off my banner customers, and coax them into members subscriptions, rather than try to humiliate them into it. I'm betting that Jagex holds similar views, and that they just haven't yet realized what potential lies bottled up in co-branding.

[archimage_a]

I think its more that jagex wants to stand alone rather than be one half of a whole, if the other company suffers then so does jagex thats the problem with any to tier idea