F2P and "Double XP" Weekend Question

[PraetorDei]

Most of the discussion on the Jagex forums is all about skilling -- the enhanced XP effects and buying and selling etc -- and it is mainly focused on P2P skills like summoning and herblore and such.

I haven't seen anyone discussing -- enhanced XP for plain old monster slaying? Why is that?

Also it appears that XP "enhancers" already in the game will be nullified.

 

So -- for FP2 -- build atk/str/def? Or skilling?

[Bouwzie]

F2P doesn't get double xp.

[skylor12344]

bouwzie is correct im afraid, the xp boost weekend is for p2p only at the moment, however, Jagex has stated that is this event goes well they might do it again sometime only for BOTH f2p and p2p.

[PraetorDei]

F2P doesn't get double xp.

 

Ah. Of course. It figures.

 

I will admit -- the only reason I play Runescape instead of something like Perfect World (which has graphics literally 10x superior to Runescape, the ability to fly, much greater distances, far more types of monsters -- and ALL FREE!) -- is that I play this on my work laptop on the train (yes over a cellular connection unlimited data of course) and on the weekends. And my company's policy precludes downloading and installing non-work related software -- and that means ANY game software where a client gets installed. Runescape is browser only -- so does not violate installation policy (and I play it only on my own time).

 

So my point? It is that F2P players, other than unusual cases such as myself, do have other choices. Many other choices. And while Jagex gets zero direct dollars from F2P players, the Runescape economy depends upon all those miners, wood cutters, crafters, fishers, etc. And oh yeah -- P2P fletchers sell lots of arrows to F2P rangers. P2P runecrafters sell lots of runes to F2P mages, etc.

 

So if Runescape becomes so much less attractive than other games for F2P (I am not discussing P2P) then the Runescape economy will gradually collapse from lack of resources as the F2P populations dwindles. I have listened to my 11 year old son and his buddies talk about games (Perfect World, WoW, Combat Arms, etc.) and their consensus is that Runescape is "for lamers". I suspect if someone started playing Runescape 5 to 10 years ago and has a lot invested in the game (emotionally and timewise) they may be prejudiced towards Runescape. My conception after having played for a few months and having watched my son and his friends play multiple games is this: Runescape will gradually wither and die as the F2P population slowly decreases.

 

Now I suspect that many disagree. I am open to hearing contrary opinions.

[SirIzenhime]

I honestly have no idea what your point was there.

 

You say F2p is decreasing? What game are you playing, I see more and more f2p players everyday when ever I make random fun accounts.

[Evil_Sabre]

3 million f2pers disagree with you, and the future players (whom are growing at an exponential rate everyday), will also most likely disagree with you. The game has added 169 new worlds to the game since it's start to deal with overpopulation, they will likely need more soon, judging by the average number of players per world in prime time. If this game is dying I think I must be missing something.

[PraetorDei]

3 million f2pers disagree with you, and the future players (whom are growing at an exponential rate everyday), will also most likely disagree with you. The game has added 169 new worlds to the game since it's start to deal with overpopulation, they will likely need more soon, judging by the average number of players per world in prime time. If this game is dying I think I must be missing something.

 

What matters to the economy is not number of registered accounts -- whether that is 10K or 10M matters not. What matters is the number of skillers active in the economy. Your point about the 169 new worlds would be valid if they were all F2P worlds -- but in fact most of them are NOT F2P worlds. And I made a direct comparison to Perfect World -- which currently claims 50 million players. And which started significantly later than Runescape. Of COURSE the PW numbers are just everyone who ever signed up for an account. But so are the Runescape numbers.

 

Really it is a question of competing business models. There are basically 3.

There is everyone pays (example WoW) except for "free weeks" for people to try it out for free for a week -- if they like it they become paying members.

There is free subset of content (skills, geography, quests, monsters, etc.) but for full access you pay. That is the Runescape model.

There is the totally free skills, geography, quests, monsters model, but you pay for special weapons, clothing, etc. That is the Perfect World model.

 

Of the 3, the PW model offers the most to free to play players. You can go everywhere, do all the quests, fight all the monsters. BUT. If you want the cool clothing (and the girl players DO) and the cool flying mounts -- that's stuff from the "cash items" shop. Also "getting married" in the game requires buying items from the cash shop.

 

The simple facts are that for F2P, the PW model is simply better. And that is why they claim 50 million users for a game that has only been out for what -- a year and a half?

 

Back to my point -- the in game economy is based on having lots of active in game F2P players cranking away. If that groups dwindles....well. And lets be realistic. Those 50M PW players didn't come here for a reason. Why not?

[Bladewing]

Back to my point -- the in game economy is based on having lots of active in game F2P players cranking away. If that groups dwindles....well. And lets be realistic. Those 50M PW players didn't come here for a reason. Why not?

If you think that if free to play disappeared entirely that the Runescape economy would somehow collapse, you my friend have a very misconstrued knowledge of economics.

[Evil_Sabre]

3 million f2pers disagree with you, and the future players (whom are growing at an exponential rate everyday), will also most likely disagree with you. The game has added 169 new worlds to the game since it's start to deal with overpopulation, they will likely need more soon, judging by the average number of players per world in prime time. If this game is dying I think I must be missing something.

 

What matters to the economy is not number of registered accounts -- whether that is 10K or 10M matters not. What matters is the number of skillers active in the economy. Your point about the 169 new worlds would be valid if they were all F2P worlds -- but in fact most of them are NOT F2P worlds. And I made a direct comparison to Perfect World -- which currently claims 50 million players. And which started significantly later than Runescape. Of COURSE the PW numbers are just everyone who ever signed up for an account. But so are the Runescape numbers.

 

Really it is a question of competing business models. There are basically 3.

There is everyone pays (example WoW) except for "free weeks" for people to try it out for free for a week -- if they like it they become paying members.

There is free subset of content (skills, geography, quests, monsters, etc.) but for full access you pay. That is the Runescape model.

There is the totally free skills, geography, quests, monsters model, but you pay for special weapons, clothing, etc. That is the Perfect World model.

 

Of the 3, the PW model offers the most to free to play players. You can go everywhere, do all the quests, fight all the monsters. BUT. If you want the cool clothing (and the girl players DO) and the cool flying mounts -- that's stuff from the "cash items" shop. Also "getting married" in the game requires buying items from the cash shop.

 

The simple facts are that for F2P, the PW model is simply better. And that is why they claim 50 million users for a game that has only been out for what -- a year and a half?

 

Back to my point -- the in game economy is based on having lots of active in game F2P players cranking away. If that groups dwindles....well. And lets be realistic. Those 50M PW players didn't come here for a reason. Why not?

 

Ok great. But in that entire argument you left out the part of how you have come to the conclusion that the f2p population is dwindling. The account numbers are obviously exaggerated, but that doesn't mean more people are quitting than joining.

 

What is giving you the notion that people are quitting? Because they don't get a double xp weekend? Because people that pay for the game get more benefits than those that ride the backs of the paying members?

[sehaswan]

well

i thought to participate.

i got good skilling in f2p

 

talking abt the economy... well f2p is decreasing. only those f2ps playing which are here for long time.. rest quit soon.

the diff between f2p and p2p is so gr8.

plus there is no fun in f2p now. ppl used to play for pking... which is no longer fun now. jagex shud seriously introduce some weapon for f2p. to make pking interesting.

training in members was too easy.. dont think whats the point of double days.. only point seems to me is that. many player dont show much on weekends due to outings and picnics.. now such players wud try to avoid going out n stick to computers.. simple

[Bladewing]

well

i thought to participate.

i got good skilling in f2p

 

talking abt the economy... well f2p is decreasing. only those f2ps playing which are here for long time.. rest quit soon.

the diff between f2p and p2p is so gr8.

plus there is no fun in f2p now. ppl used to play for pking... which is no longer fun now. jagex shud seriously introduce some weapon for f2p. to make pking interesting.

training in members was too easy.. dont think whats the point of double days.. only point seems to me is that. many player dont show much on weekends due to outings and picnics.. now such players wud try to avoid going out n stick to computers.. simple

So your first point is that F2P'ers don't stick around? Well, new ones join every day to replace them.

[PraetorDei]

3 million f2pers disagree with you, and the future players (whom are growing at an exponential rate everyday), will also most likely disagree with you. The game has added 169 new worlds to the game since it's start to deal with overpopulation, they will likely need more soon, judging by the average number of players per world in prime time. If this game is dying I think I must be missing something.

 

What matters to the economy is not number of registered accounts -- whether that is 10K or 10M matters not. What matters is the number of skillers active in the economy. Your point about the 169 new worlds would be valid if they were all F2P worlds -- but in fact most of them are NOT F2P worlds. And I made a direct comparison to Perfect World -- which currently claims 50 million players. And which started significantly later than Runescape. Of COURSE the PW numbers are just everyone who ever signed up for an account. But so are the Runescape numbers.

 

Really it is a question of competing business models. There are basically 3.

There is everyone pays (example WoW) except for "free weeks" for people to try it out for free for a week -- if they like it they become paying members.

There is free subset of content (skills, geography, quests, monsters, etc.) but for full access you pay. That is the Runescape model.

There is the totally free skills, geography, quests, monsters model, but you pay for special weapons, clothing, etc. That is the Perfect World model.

 

Of the 3, the PW model offers the most to free to play players. You can go everywhere, do all the quests, fight all the monsters. BUT. If you want the cool clothing (and the girl players DO) and the cool flying mounts -- that's stuff from the "cash items" shop. Also "getting married" in the game requires buying items from the cash shop.

 

The simple facts are that for F2P, the PW model is simply better. And that is why they claim 50 million users for a game that has only been out for what -- a year and a half?

 

Back to my point -- the in game economy is based on having lots of active in game F2P players cranking away. If that groups dwindles....well. And lets be realistic. Those 50M PW players didn't come here for a reason. Why not?

 

Ok great. But in that entire argument you left out the part of how you have come to the conclusion that the f2p population is dwindling. The account numbers are obviously exaggerated, but that doesn't mean more people are quitting than joining.

 

What is giving you the notion that people are quitting? Because they don't get a double xp weekend? Because people that pay for the game get more benefits than those that ride the backs of the paying members?

 

Because Jagex does not publish numbers there is no way to do accurate polling statistics. But what we can do is compare between games. Perhaps F2P is declining. Or holding constant. Or slightly increasing. Problem is, from a corporate perspective, you have to compare the product to competitors. If PW picks up 50M accounts in a year and a half, and Runescape picks up a couple hundred thousand....so from a relative perspective F2P is clearly not growing nearly as fast as would be necessary to compete.

 

See, Jagex can probably SURVIVE by focusing on 3rd world accounts with slow connections. AOL survived for a really really long time using their walled garden for old people model. Key word is survived they didn't thrive.

 

The key point is the RATIO of F2P to P2P not necessarily raw numbers. But if the RATIO of F2P to P2P is declining, and the P2P depend upon the raw materials produced by F2P then the long term trend you would expect to see is commodity items becoming more expensive over the years. The Jagex GE doesn't post charts for more than 180 days. I would like however to see costs for commodities like ore and gems over a 5 year period. I can point out the GE "common trade index" shows that since December of 2007 the index average has gone from 100 to about 160. This can be caused in two ways -- higher demand or lower supply. Both higher demand and lower supply occur if the ratio between P2P and F2P shifts such that there are fewer F2P "suppliers". Or if the number of P2P remains constant but the F2P declines. In either case you should see my point. The market watch can be seen here: GE Market Watch

 

I am asserting that the Runescape economy depends upon F2P. The market indicators show that the economy is growing more consumers over suppliers, and my assertion is that F2P are the primary suppliers of commodity items. I predict that unless Jagex can make the game more attractive to F2P this trend will continue. And since F2P are the "poorest" players -- well I project that Runescape will become truly feudal. P2P will be the "fighters" -- because they can afford it. F2P will shift more and more to skilling and merching to make money. But of course only a small subset of MMORPG players want to log in and chop pretend wood all day.

[Lacoste]

What help and advice do you need....?

[PraetorDei]

What help and advice do you need....?

Original advice request was: fight or skilling -- but that was before I learned this was P2P only. Since it is....question is now irrelevant.

[Sinkhan]

I think you also need to consider the fact that this is just a pilot run of bonus XP weekends. They have already stated that if this event is successful that it's a very likely possibility that F2Pers will also get free weekends too.

 

No matter what you say, Jagex remains a company with employess. This is not some volunteer project they do in their spare time for our own benefit; their own livelihoods depend on it. As a result, they must give priority to those who are directly funding them the most, so this obviously means members.

 

In the past Jagex has almost always run major content through members first only to then release it to F2Pers. Sound effects and music, RS2, the HD update were all updates that I personally experienced as a purely F2P player and even then I wasn't overly perturbed that the release date was delayed for F2P.

 

F2P is still getting updates via minor graphical fixes, engine updates, and F2P will even get a new skill.

[SirIzenhime]

If F2p is declining, why is it that when ever I make a new account, I find it gets harder and harder to get recources such as coal in F2p worlds?

[DivineArr0wZ]

My guess is when for example woodcutting F2Pers start quiting, the price of logs will rise causing more people -F2Pers and P2Pers alike- to start woodcutting. This will trigger a decrease in prices (rising supplies) and it will balance itself out. If once again F2Pers start quiting, this process will restart. So whatever happens in real life, I doubt the economic crisis will spread out to RS.