Just to introduce myself. My character's name is Sharper2 and I have played Runescape across 4 character since the middle of 2001. I understand how Runescape works and have completed my fair share of merchanting over the different economy circumstances. I would just like to state my opinion on the much hyped subject and try to convey to people why Rares really do mean nothing to the Runescape economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My view:

 

 

 

Rares are nothing. (Simple isn't it :P)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically I have merchanted almost every single Runescape item that has any value and have seen the traits of their price changes and the effect of updates to the game. Made and lost many a GP and even had a hand in some significant historical events :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason why I believe Rares do not mean anything to the Runescape economy is because I believe they would have absolutely no effect on the economy if they were to suddenly dissapear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of raw materials through Runescape history have held their prices in a very stable manner. Some raw materials have become easy to gather over time and others alot harder. The price of these materials has been reflected by these gameplay changes. One simple example is the once only theivable Blood Runes which sold for 3k each and now only 600gp. This comes down to the basic supply and demand of the raw materials in the game. I could go on for hundred's of pages describing how every single raw material in Runescape relates to others and why prices are actually priced as they are. Because prices aren't just made up, the economy has been structured and everything is relative to eachother, later I may go into more depth of this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok so to explain in a little more detail why Rares mean nothing to the actual mechanics of the Runescape economy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rare's weren't a part of Runescape for it's first 12 months of playtime. In this time the game was actually quite simple. The supply and demand of items kept prices of items quite stable, yet with the fast growing player base and gameplay developments the prices of items seemed to abnormally change. However as I have stated above these changes have all been very relative to gameplay changes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The value of Rare items have no effect on the economy as a whole (and in my view even a small effect). The price of Rares continues to rise for 2 simple facts, they become rarer each day as more players start the game and items are lost through banned characters other Rare sinks. The other reason the price extends is simply because the amount of GP in the game rises by millions and millions each hour of every day. And players have to have something to spend this money on. There isn't much difference between a player having 1 billion gp now and someone having 50 million gp in 2001, it's all relative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is only one flaw in this. The fact that, as we all know, there is way too much money coming into the economy each hour yet the price of raw materials does not vary at all. This just means that every single day more and more players can afford to spend more money on their skills. Buying more raw materials from players for their normal low prices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A point in Rare's favour:

 

 

 

OMG whats this? I have something to contribute that is in the favour of Rare's? :o Yes! Rare's actually play a nice little role in the economy. The reason why I am going to mention this point is because I know it is what alot of people (who know what they are talking about) will argue in the favour of Rares :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rare's somewhat keep the prices of raw materials stable. How? Because of the millions and millions of GP entering the game every hour this money has to be spent on something! If there were no Rare's then people with 100mil+ would start buying raw materials (or something similar) and this may incurr the prices of these raw materials to rise, if the richer players wanted to buy alot of them quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is an example of this. Before Rare's even thought of has a valued or merchantable item there were a few bugs in Runescape that hackers took advantage of. They released millions and millions (could have been billions) of GP into the game and started buying raw materials for over double their regular prices. This is somewhat how the tide of the economy could turn if all of a sudden there weren't item's worth 50mil+ for people to waste their money on (or is invest a better word? :P).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have put some thought into this and have brought my opinion to think that his would be an unlikely scenario. I would expect the economy would take a turn in a different direction though. The game would definately take a step back to earlier times of the economy when raw materials were the spotlight of large trades, and it wasn't unlikely for merchants to be hording mass amounts of raw materials and selling them for top dollar to wannabe level 99ers :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But getting off track here, I made this post initially to discuss Rares and their effect on the economy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rares have disappeared:

 

 

 

Unhappy that your Blue Phat just disappeared? Are you a lucky one that had just sold all your Rares? Yes, scary thoughts. But as we know this will never happen, it is impossible for the Rare's to leave the economy anymore, and unless Jagex do some big gameplay changes their prices will continue to rise as more money flows into the economy. The only way the price of Rares will drop forever is if they do not exist anymore or Jagex makes some big gameplay changes that would change the way money is brought into the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall I think it would be great if the Rare items just suddenly disappeared. I myself would lose a fair bit of money but it would be great for the game. It would return the trading to it's old ways and increase the production of raw materials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did have more to say but if I say anymore then user's probably wouldn't read my post :) So if you would like to discuss anything in particular in detail I'ld love to join in. Just remember these are just my views that I have come to know from my experience playing Runescape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In an attempt to sum up my view I would say this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Rare's are nothing but items for the large amounts of GP in the game to be traded around with. In the event that they were no longer in the game the mechanics of the game would still function and the price of raw materials would not ulter."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please feel free to flame me :) Although I'm normally always right of course! :D ;)

you have simply stated what just about every single person in the game (who has been playin a decent amount of time) already knows. All you did was elaborate on it. but you put forth a good effort, lol.

Don't drop them from the game, just make them untradeable. And possibly freely available to all players who have been playing long enough(from the varrock shop)

i think rares are both bad for the economy and good for the economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

they are bad, because they allow a few lucky people who happened to be around on the day that the items were dropped to make mega millions for doing absolutely nothing. they also violated the intentions that jagex had for the items, since they were originally meant to show how long a player has been playing, and not how wealthy he is. because of theis, rares are money making investments, as they can ALWAYS be sold for a profit, no matter how expensive they are today

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rares are good for the economy, because they give the masive amounts of added gp somewhere to go. as more people join runescape, the existing money spreads around, as well as new wealth is being added. at least the fact that rare prices always go up, they can absorb some of the money that is added to the economy. its not a money sink, but more of a money spread. but at least the money goes somewhere...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

for any economy to work, there must be a few very wealthy individuals, and a massive base of "poor to middle class". thats how inflation is controlled in the real world. but in runescape it doesnt always work like that. the wealthy in runescape could become extremely powerful, in terms of regulating the runescape economy, if they formed some sort of "cartel", particularly on the ownership of rares. they would have the power to raise or lower virtually any price of any item they wanted. hmmm.....

Hiya Sharpy. :) Funny how you say you basically traded any item in rs - something I oftenly say too...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There isn't much difference between a player having 1 billion gp now and someone having 50 million gp in 2001, it's all relative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hm, big mistake in your reasoning here IMO though, especially for someone who says 'rares are nothing'... It's only relative when we compare the richness as Buying Power In Rares. Hypothetically: someone who could afford 50mil worth of rares in 2001, would have had 1bil gp now, because rares went up by 20 times in that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like you already gave away yourself too, the person's Buying Power in any non-rare item, rocketed in the meanwhile. There's nothing relative about that - the person actually became 20 times as rich as back in 2001.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason why I believe Rares do not mean anything to the Runescape economy is because I believe they would have absolutely no effect on the economy if they were to suddenly dissapear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't the fact that all big name merchants only deal in rares these days, make you realise that the rares market is much bigger then you may think? The total value of the rares market is going in the 100's of billions... I'm sure you realise what the consequences of that are: other items will have to make up for the 'gone' item worth, while the total gp stayed the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prices can't stay constant while at the same time billions upon billions of pure gp are introduced. The worth of gp's deflates due to all this pure money production, so other things have to inflate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take away the only items inflating in the current situation, rares, other items will have to take over the rares' role of inflation-correction. The only items suitable for that are materials. True - they will not be rising at the same rate as rares currently do, but it will definately be noticeable that they rise in price.

I rather like the idea (that someone put forth in a differnt topic) that rares should have a trade counter one them; every time you trade the rare, it would gain a trade point, and, depending on what type of rare item it was, when it reached a certain number, the item would then not be tradeable; you could still gain it if someone died, but otherwise they would impossible to trade.

Hiya Sharpy. :) Funny how you say you basically traded any item in rs - something I oftenly say too...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There isn't much difference between a player having 1 billion gp now and someone having 50 million gp in 2001, it's all relative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hm, big mistake in your reasoning here IMO though, especially for someone who says 'rares are nothing'... It's only relative when we compare the richness as Buying Power In Rares. Hypothetically: someone who could afford 50mil worth of rares in 2001, would have had 1bil gp now, because rares went up by 20 times in that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like you already gave away yourself too, the person's Buying Power in any non-rare item, rocketed in the meanwhile. There's nothing relative about that - the person actually became 20 times as rich as back in 2001.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason why I believe Rares do not mean anything to the Runescape economy is because I believe they would have absolutely no effect on the economy if they were to suddenly dissapear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't the fact that all big name merchants only deal in rares these days, make you realise that the rares market is much bigger then you may think? The total value of the rares market is going in the 100's of billions... I'm sure you realise what the consequences of that are: other items will have to make up for the 'gone' item worth, while the total gp stayed the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prices can't stay constant while at the same time billions upon billions of pure gp are introduced. The worth of gp's deflates due to all this pure money production, so other things have to inflate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take away the only items inflating in the current situation, rares, other items will have to take over the rares' role of inflation-correction. The only items suitable for that are materials. True - they will not be rising at the same rate as rares currently do, but it will definately be noticeable that they rise in price.

 

 

 

Mornin' Duke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. I did not word that sentence completely correct. Of course the player is now 20 times richer. What I was meaning is compared to the amount of money in the game the player still had a similar proportion. People with 1 billion gp now are considered very rich while people with 50 million gp in 2001 would have been regarded at the same level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are completely correct about the the inflation. I've always wondered how the inflation would effect raw materials if there weren't Rares to waste your GP on. But what you have to consider is there are people out there with pure GP only, who are billionaires. These people are still paying the normal price for materials. I just see Runescape working different than real life scenario's if there weren't Rares involved to counter the inflation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I see it is there is still the same amount of GP around the game and the supply and demand of raw materials is always at the same level. If for some reason Rare's disappeared alot of players would lose billions of GP in value. Not in actual wealth, but value. Now you have a whole lot of players with billion's of GP and even more players with very very little money. I don't see how this would mean the price of raw materials would change drastically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure you might see more people trying to buy Coal 200gp each, or buying Shark for a little more than usual. The demand for the items would still be the same and the supply if anything would go up, not down. Because Rare's don't effect the inflation of money into the game not alot would be effected if they were gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In arguement to your 100's of billion GP market of Rare's in the game. I remind you of my point earlier. Those Rare's don't atually have any wealth for a player, they are just a worthless item that add's wealth to their account. The amount of money in the game does not change so not everyone can sell all their Rare's and only have GP at a time. If Rare's didn't exist like I said, alot of players would have very little GP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The players that did have alot of GP would just continue to play as they normally do, they don't overpay for raw materials, they can just afford more of them. I think the value of Rarer armor and weapons would go up if Rare's didn't exist, because as you stated, players have to spend their money on something. And with the flaws in the High Level Alchemy spell and lack of money drains in the game there will always be billions and billions more GP coming into the game. The amount of new players probably doesn't cater for this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The supply of raw materials would still remain the same, only changing if the gameplay is altered, which has been normal throughout Runescape's history. The demand for these items I believe would not change much either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have always been a true believer that half the reason the price in Rare's rise is because they are infact rare. People that lose their Rare through a ban or another reason may want to get them back after time. Not everyone that has Rare's buys them just to merchant them and profit. Alot of the Rare's that are sold are to players that just want a Rare and have no intention of selling it. Which takes more Rare's off the market, leaving less in Rare's to be traded and therefore harder to find many of them, rising the price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the amount of GP in the game isn't effected by Rare's. The party hat duping on RS1 was a good example of what might happen if Rare's didn't exist. When Party Hat's where duped alot of wealth in player's accounts was lost, but however there was no change to the GP in the game. Raw material prices didn't care about this. Then people went and bought more Rare's with what money they had (remember there were still a smaller amount of Rare's in the game after the duping as there were around a year prior). Therefore less money was spent on the Rare's that were still in the game. What did players do with the extra GP that was left over after the dupe? Nothing? How could so much wealth be lost from the game but the actual GP that hadn't changed not effected anything else? I'll tell you why, because Rare's have no major impact on the Runescape economy and therefore if they were no longer around the price of raw materials would not alter drastically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex changed the High Level Alchemy GP returns you would see a significant more drastic economy change than if Rare's disappeared :)

I've always wondered how the inflation would effect raw materials if there weren't Rares to waste your GP on. But what you have to consider is there are people out there with pure GP only, who are billionaires. These people are still paying the normal price for materials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I see it is there is still the same amount of GP around the game and the supply and demand of raw materials is always at the same level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hm I think that is probably where we disagree mostly then. Personally I think that when rares are removed, supply will go down and demand will go up. I mentioned the size of the rares market to show how much money is going on in the market... This means that people are stocking up loads of gp (supplying the economy with materials) just to buy a rare at a later time. When these people have no reason to stock up so much gp anymore, the supply will go down as they will no longer need to get gp. Add on to that that they now have a lot of gp sitting in their bank they have no use for anymore, they'll probably end up spending that gp on materials, causing a larger demand at the same time too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True, at first pseudo-rare items like whips, squares, chains, etc will rocket in terms of gp-value. However, if these items rocket too much relatively to the price of materials, more people will start doing whatever is needed to get the item as the hourly profits doing that have become much more interesting. This again means lower supply of materials and higher demand of materials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If for some reason Rare's disappeared alot of players would lose billions of GP in value. Not in actual wealth, but value. Now you have a whole lot of players with billion's of GP and even more players with very very little money. I don't see how this would mean the price of raw materials would change drastically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's sketch the situation of 3 months ago:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Amount Of Gps: 450bil*

 

 

 

Total Item Value (excl gp and rares): 1000bil?**

 

 

 

Total Rares Value: 200bil***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* = http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=328924

 

 

 

** = Very rough guess, not going to back it up.

 

 

 

*** = Rough estimate gotten by first estimating the number of each rare, can give calculations if you would want.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point is, a lot of the total amount of gp around is being stashed away to buy rares. If 200bil item worth suddenly disappears that means the money stashed away to buy those items will be spend on other items. This will cause a rise in other items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure you might see more people trying to buy Coal 200gp each, or buying Shark for a little more than usual. The demand for the items would still be the same and the supply if anything would go up, not down. Because Rare's don't effect the inflation of money into the game not alot would be effected if they were gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry but this doesn't make much sense at all. More people paying higher prices -> larger demand / lower supply, otherwise that doesn't happen - people don't just go and pay more for items because they feel like doing so. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The party hat duping on RS1 was a good example of what might happen if Rare's didn't exist. When Party Hat's where duped alot of wealth in player's accounts was lost, but however there was no change to the GP in the game. Raw material prices didn't care about this. Then people went and bought more Rare's with what money they had (remember there were still a smaller amount of Rare's in the game after the duping as there were around a year prior). Therefore less money was spent on the Rare's that were still in the game. What did players do with the extra GP that was left over after the dupe? Nothing? How could so much wealth be lost from the game but the actual GP that hadn't changed not effected anything else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The dupe didn't change anything at all about the relation of total gp ingame versus total item/rares value, nor did it 'take away' the items people were stashing gp's away for, so it can't give us insight on what might happen if rares didn't exist. Hypothetically (random numbers):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Amount Of GP: 75bil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Amount of Phats before the Dupe: 2.000

 

 

 

Average price per phat: 8mil

 

 

 

Total Value of Phats before the Dupe: 16bil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Amount of Phats after the Dupe: 8.000

 

 

 

Average price per phat: 2mil

 

 

 

Total Value of Phats after the Dupe: 16bil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ofcourse this is all theory: in reality the prices of phats first crashed, dropping the total value of phats drop FAR below the total value of phats before the dupe. However, this clearly resulted in a fast rise shortly after the dupe, putting the total value of phats back to approximately the total value of phats before the dupe.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the amount of GP in the game isn't effected by Rare's. The party hat duping on RS1 was a good example of what might happen if Rare's didn't exist. When Party Hat's where duped alot of wealth in player's accounts was lost, but however there was no change to the GP in the game. Raw material prices didn't care about this. Then people went and bought more Rare's with what money they had (remember there were still a smaller amount of Rare's in the game after the duping as there were around a year prior). Therefore less money was spent on the Rare's that were still in the game. What did players do with the extra GP that was left over after the dupe? Nothing? How could so much wealth be lost from the game but the actual GP that hadn't changed not effected anything else? I'll tell you why, because Rare's have no major impact on the Runescape economy and therefore if they were no longer around the price of raw materials would not alter drastically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jagex changed the High Level Alchemy GP returns you would see a significant more drastic economy change than if Rare's disappeared :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think that is entirly correct, the duping did show that an increase in total amount of rare's didn't change much.

 

 

 

About those extra GP that where left over after the dupe, I don't really think there where much extra, I mean the people who duped the hats would normaly had there money but now they got banned with it.

 

 

 

So I think increase the amount of rare's would only lower the price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the amount would (greatly) decrease however it would change more.

 

 

 

To start the price would increase rapidly, many prospective buyers wouldn't be able to keep up with it. And whats the second best thing to buying a rare? buying a 99skill is. And so there would be more demand for raw materials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the rare's would completly disapear then also the merchants would resolve toward the materials. And instead of them forceing the prices of rare's higher they would force the prices of those materials higher. (some materials prices are already forced higher.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However as you have said changes to the high alchemy would indeed have way more influence to the economie.

If the rare's would completly disapear then also the merchants would resolve toward the materials. And instead of them forceing the prices of rare's higher they would force the prices of those materials higher. (some materials prices are already forced higher.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Investors will force higher material prices yes, because materials will be the only things going up in price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most merchants would probably be going to high priced items like whips, squares, chains as the profit marges are larger there.

I'm reminded of a tennis rally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways I don't trade in the Holiday Rares trade (in fact I hardly even merchant), so I won't be too concerned about Holiday Rares.

My only concern is that alot of the raw material prices are controled by their High alch price. Yew logs aren't magically at 300gp as one example. I can't see some raw materials changing much at all without a change to their High alch GP return.

i must say i forsee a possible crash similar to the Stock Market Crash of 1929 here in America. Ppl would start selling everything until they couldn'y and had worthless stuff. i mean, the mask is just a mask with the word "halloween" in front of it. Its just a game.

i think its weird that JaGeX created an economy. just unusual. I can tell the prices have gone up. I did quests for the first time and made 300gp! wooo! oh and i got a gold bar once. that was freakin amazing.

Personally, if they suddenly made all of the "rares" stashed into my bank untradeable, or started selling them in shops, or just deleted them all, I would jump around screaming for about 10 minutes then cancel my subscription to RS immediately. It's a part of the game, that has been around for years and taking it away would cause some sort of hole in the economy. Everyone with cash would be rich and everyone who had invested in "Rares" would suddenly find themselves poor; only those who were lucky enough to have sold their rares just before whatever change could possibly occur would then buy their way up to 99 in all "buyable skills" while those of us who lost everything would have to slave away selling our "raw materials" at lower and lower prices to compete with the onslaught of other people desperate to make a few gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even considering that something like the deletion of these items is ridiculous, and it annoys me that you even made this thread that suggests peace and happiness in the economy, when somewhere a bunch of children would be crying and trying to trade some cabbage for a steel sword, since their party hat would have been imploded into the land-of-the-forgotten-pixels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

Oh yeah, in answer to the title question

 

 

 

Who cares about Rares?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Me! I care!! :x :( :cry:

rares are fun (cool hat:) etc.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and they wont ever disappear!!!!! and they wont put a shop with rares or a rare respawn in the game...

Well ive been going back to read, old forgotten articles, and i found this great thread!

 

 

 

These are very good arguements.

 

 

 

I agree, Rares have a great impact on the game, and simply deleting them would leave many people poor, especially now that theyre worth many more, like now for example, a Red Party Hat costs 250m, and a Blue one costs 400m, so now the economy of runescape would be affected a thousand-fold more, literaly.

My oppinion is that if rares dissapeared the range of prices for raw matierials would widen.

 

for example coal is currently (reasonably priced at) 175-225ea

 

if rares were to dissapear it might go to 175-300ea

 

the low end of the range of prices would stay the same but there would be people buying for much higher prices.

My oppinion is that if rares dissapeared the range of prices for raw matierials would widen.

 

for example coal is currently (reasonably priced at) 175-225ea

 

if rares were to dissapear it might go to 175-300ea

 

the low end of the range of prices would stay the same but there would be people buying for much higher prices.

actualy the price range of coal is 150-210ea (I merchant it). Everybody would be sad if rares go :(

Well, Go461, Me and Goldhawk Co. merchant and smelt together...

 

 

 

And the price is as he stated 175-225 each.

 

 

 

you may buy in small amounts at 150 ea. however we buy in large amounts meaning if we buy 10- 50 coal at a time at 150 ea we would save more money.. but waste more time. Since we buy 12k+ at a time,

 

we need to pay more to save ourselves time.

 

 

 

Approximated quote by the way:Walking from L.A. to New York would be about 30 days, Cycling from L.A. to New York would be 15 days,

 

Car ride would be 7, Train would be 2, and Plane would be 5 hrs.

 

Now in that order they're from cheapest to most expensive, Plane Flight being most. Though it costs more money, it saves you alot of time, depending on your alternative way.

 

 

 

Robert T. Kiyosaki, The Money Game, With Sharon L. Lecther, C.P.A.

 

It's not completely accurate since I didn't go to the exact page, to check its exact quote. If u think about it you think about it applies al around the world... Including Runescape. So since we need more fast, we pay more.