Questions about hexhunter bow

[z0diark]

Just noticed this new subforum. I already posted this question in q&a but I figured I should help get this subforum up and running :D

 

Ok I just bound hexhunter bow (I also have hood and prom2h bound) and I have loads of questions about how to use it best.

 

Firstly, can anyone list which bosses it's better to use hex for than to melee?

Can anyone list which standard monsters are better to range with hex than melee? (Stuff like ghosts/shades etc seem to be better to melee but my experience is limited).

What should I have my ring set to? Desp and Zerk I assume? (Should I customise>switch to gath for skill doors?) I'm t9 in each of these classes. If I am supposed to have desp and zerk on quickswitch, should I be trying to switch between them both in each gd?

Also, atm when I gt to a gd I have my hex equipped as I go (since mage creatures tend to be killed first), is this right?

Also, should I bother collecting arrows or will 125 last most floors?

I think that's everything, but if you have any tips for using a hex most effectively please share :D

 

Thanks

 

Edit: I probably should have mentioned that I rarely key.

[gago]

My knowledge about HHB is limited as well, as i don't have it, but i can answer some things.

 

Bosses: Necro, Forger, Flesh-spoiler, Ballak, Cursebearer, Runebound behemoth,...

Monsters: Forgotten mages, Books, Demons, Dragons, Mercenary, it seems to work good on Dogs(+hellhounds) and Brutes. Also high level giants.

Ring: as far as i've read, Sniper ring is better for monsters and desperado for bosses. So berserker/sniper switch. Don't use gatherer as it takes too much time to make a 3rd switch.

 

Quickly inspect the room for monsters and if you see any mage threats, snipe them from the distance :)

 

About arrows picking, it's probably different from floor to floor, depends on howmany mages you encounter.

 

Good luck!

[Michael]

Just noticed this new subforum. I already posted this question in q&a but I figured I should help get this subforum up and running :D

 

Ok I just bound hexhunter bow (I also have hood and prom2h bound) and I have loads of questions about how to use it best.

 

Firstly, can anyone list which bosses it's better to use hex for than to melee?

Can anyone list which standard monsters are better to range with hex than melee? (Stuff like ghosts/shades etc seem to be better to melee but my experience is limited).

What should I have my ring set to? Desp and Zerk I assume? (Should I customise>switch to gath for skill doors?) I'm t9 in each of these classes. If I am supposed to have desp and zerk on quickswitch, should I be trying to switch between them both in each gd?

Also, atm when I gt to a gd I have my hex equipped as I go (since mage creatures tend to be killed first), is this right?

Also, should I bother collecting arrows or will 125 last most floors?

I think that's everything, but if you have any tips for using a hex most effectively please share :D

 

Thanks

 

Edit: I probably should have mentioned that I rarely key.

 

You should Hex: Hobgoblin Geomancer, Unholy Cursebearer, Har'Lakk the Riftsplitter, Lexicus Runewright, Night-gazer Khighorahk, Shadow-forger Ihlakhizan, Bal'lak the Pummeller, Skeletal trio (Sourcerer) Runebound Behemoth (Range pray down, Necrolord, Flesh-spoiler Haasghenahk,Blink (I will usually hex him regardless, but you may wish to only do so if he is ragered) Kal'Ger the Warmonger (Mage form)

You can Hex: Gravecreeper (If Ragered), World-gorger Shukarhazh (Debatable whether or not to Hex imo)

 

Monsters you should hex: Forgotten Mages, Necromancers, Reborn Mages, Lesser Demons, Greater Demons, Black Demons, Green Dragons, Red Dragons, Black Dragons, Ramokee Skinweaver, Ramokee Stormbringer, Seeker, Edimmu, Soulgazer.

 

Monsters you can hex: Ghosts (Ghost room GD), Brute, Guard dog, Hellhound, Animated Book.

 

Ring Classes: Sniper/Berseker quickswitch. For arrow conservation and Desperado doesn't stack with the Hex special.

 

Arriving at a GD with Hex equipped is useful, but not necessarily needed.

 

For Occult floors its pretty important to have arrows left in case of Necrolord so it's a good habit to pick up arrows if you can. There's a couple more Hexers in DGS so I'm sure they can pick up on any mistakes or omissions.

[Obtaurian]

FML I wasn't sure if Michael was posting or not so I went ahead and wrote all of this even though he covered most of it. :(

 

- Bosses: All abandoned bosses, necrolord, flesh, runebound, skeletal sorcerer, gravecreeper with ragers and/or strong ranged pots and/or ranged armor, blink under the same conditions as gravecreeper, world-gorger if there's two to three hexes on the team, and the mage form of Kal'Ger. Can also use it against dread but it's not very effective.

 

- Monsters: Mages, books, demons, dragons, necros, reborns, edimmus, soulgazers, seekers, skinweaver, stormbringer, merc leader, skele mages w/ ranged armor, low-level shades (best strategy for shades, IMO, is to hit once with hex and switch to melee - they're not particularly weak to hexes), brutes (works much better with ranged armor), dogs, hobgoblins, level 3/4 monsters, ghost room ghosts (not normal ghosts; not 199 ghost room ghosts without armor) and I'll add anything I think of later.

 

- Ring: Set your ring to sniper and berserker. Desperado does NOT stack with the hex effect on normal monsters - the 20% damage boost (t10 desp) will only apply to the initial ranged strength bonus, thus Sniper is better. Sniper also conserves arrows (very important for hexes) and allows for more strategic hexing (sniping mages in future GDs or getting a couple shots off as a keyer running through the room. It's possible but inconclusive that desperado is better on bosses, however. Always run into a GD with sniper on unless you can see ahead of time that there are no mages; switch as necessary during a GD.

 

- Arrow collection: Collect larger piles of arrows throughout the floor (both yours and ranger drops). Again, ammo conservation is extremely important.

 

- Room-clearing: As the hexer on the team, it's your job to take out mages, obviously, but it also means that it's everyone else's job to stay away from your mages unless there's tons of them. ;)

 

- Making brutes, dogs, and hobgoblins angry: Pick up t10 bow drops from rangers and use them over your hex on these monsters.

 

- Ghost room: Aggro every ghost on you to save the rest of your team prayer and food.

 

- Ranged armor: Learn to make ranged armor lossless.

 

- Ramokee rooms: Everyone should be on the deathslinger while you take out the stormbringer after the skinweaver is dead.

 

- Monos: You can aggro shades quickly with your hex, but this isn't usually necessary.

 

 

I'll add more if I think of it.

[z0diark]

Many thanks guys, I was under the impression it was sniper rather than desperado that didn't work with hex, thanks for clearing that up.

A few more questions (mainly to Obtaurian but if others can answer that's cool):

 

For ghost rooms, are you saying i should attack all ghosts at once? (It makes sense to me but just wanted to clarify).

Could you also explain what you meant about t10 bows and making brutes etc angry?

Also, what does it mean to make ranged armour 'lossless'?

[Michael]

Many thanks guys, I was under the impression it was sniper rather than desperado that didn't work with hex, thanks for clearing that up.

A few more questions (mainly to Obtaurian but if others can answer that's cool):

 

For ghost rooms, are you saying i should attack all ghosts at once? (It makes sense to me but just wanted to clarify).

Could you also explain what you meant about t10 bows and making brutes etc angry?

Also, what does it mean to make ranged armour 'lossless'?

 

If you have prayer you can get all the ghosts on you and just pray so your team can just attack them without getting melee damage.

 

A hex is a T8 bow on non mage enemies, so a T10 bow would be better. Brutes are angry cos they can 2 hit you from full LP and they don't miss, same for Hellhounds except they hit less high but have a low miss rate.

 

You can make dino armour lossless in a GD if you attack the dino and lay a trap under you and stand there until it gets caught/destroys trap. You really need 80 hunter and 90 craft for it to really be worth it.

[z0diark]

 

Brutes are angry cos they can 2 hit you from full LP and they don't miss, same for Hellhounds except they hit less high but have a low miss rate.

 

Ok, but what did he mean when he said "Making brutes, dogs, and hobgoblins angry"? Am I supposed to attack them all and then prot melee or what?

 

 

You can make dino armour lossless in a GD if you attack the dino and lay a trap under you and stand there until it gets caught/destroys trap. You really need 80 hunter and 90 craft for it to really be worth it.

 

So does lossless mean w/o spending gp? As for the range armour, I'm currently 70 hunt and 83 craft, would it be worthwhile doing with the lower tier dinos (idk what else to call them) or should I wait til 90 craft/80 hunt? Also, if I do get hides, what should I make? Just body or chaps/vambs etc instead/aswell?

[I_am_Not]

Lossless means without wasting time

running in to dead ends and waiting for dinosaurs to run in to your trap is a waste of time

Trapping dinos in a GD while you're fighting is lossless

 

the order for armor i believe is chaps>body>vambs, although I doubt you'd ever get that far in one floor without wasting time somehow

 

E: fixed mistake mc pointed out, thanks

[Michael]

Lossless means without wasting time

running in to dead ends and waiting for dinosaurs to run in to your trap is a waste of time

Trapping dinos in a GD while you're fighting is lossless

 

the order for armor i believe is body>chaps>vambs, although I doubt you'd ever get that far in one floor without wasting time somehow

 

Chaps are better because you will usually get 3 hides from a catch.

[z0diark]

After doing a few floors with t8 sniper equipped nonstop, I'm pretty certain that sniper ring bonus (in this case hitting my max 43% of the time) isn't happening. Unless it's hitting my max ignoring the fact that hex deals greater damage on mage creatures (i.e max w/o hex effect is 200 but with hex effect is 300 so I'm limiting 43% of my attacks to 200 which is lower than the max i'd hit w/o sniper ring). Is this the case? If this is true then could the damage i hit end up being reduced because the max (w/o hex effect) is lower than i'd hit due to hex effect? I realise what I've written may seem confusing, if you want anything clarifying please ask but I'd greatly appareciate any input you care to offer.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

After doing a few floors with t8 sniper equipped nonstop, I'm pretty certain that sniper ring bonus (in this case hitting my max 43% of the time) isn't happening. Unless it's hitting my max ignoring the fact that hex deals greater damage on mage creatures (i.e max w/o hex effect is 200 but with hex effect is 300 so I'm limiting 43% of my attacks to 200 which is lower than the max i'd hit w/o sniper ring). Is this the case? If this is true then could the damage i hit end up being reduced because the max (w/o hex effect) is lower than i'd hit due to hex effect? I realise what I've written may seem confusing, if you want anything clarifying please ask but I'd greatly appareciate any input you care to offer.

Sniper ring scales harshly, because it forces you to not use rapid firing mode.

 

On a plain shortbow (non hex):

Tier 1 sniper = 0.9x dps of plain rapid

Tier 1 desperado = 1.093x dps of plain rapid

 

Tier 5 sniper = 1.0x dps of plain rapid

Tier 5 desperado = 1.131x dps of plain rapid.

 

tier 10 sniper = 1.125x dps of plain rapid

tier 10 desperado = 1.178x dps of plain rapid.

 

Sniper is one of those tier 10 or bust rings.

Hexhunter is seemingly subject to a number of "ring rules", which is currently being researched.

[z0diark]

 

Sniper ring scales harshly, because it forces you to not use rapid firing mode.

 

While desperado tier 1 would be =0.07% boost

Tier 1 sniper is actually worse than rapid in terms of damage output, because you sacrifice your +1 firing speed from rapid.

Tier 6-7 sniper is essentially equal to the damage output of rapid without ranging ring.

BUT tier 10 sniper is very good.

You're at tier 8. That's barely better than plain rapid without desperado.

 

Sniper ring is a tier 10 or bust deal.

 

Could you explain how the effect of the sniper ring actually works with hex? Am I correct in my assumption that the 'sniper ring effect' leads to the hit being equal to what the max of the bow would be vs a non-magic monster? If not, how does it work? If my assumption is correct, surely increasing sniper class tier would reduce overall DPS? Or is my assumption correct but the effect of hitting max (non-mage) 50% of the time is significantly better than hitting non-max (mage) all of the time? I'd appreciate it if you could explain the reasoning behind what you said about the tier of the sniper ring and the damage done too please? Sorry for so many questions, I prefer to know the reason why one thing is better than another, rather than just accepting the answer :P

 

P.S. If you somehow know the rough increase in DPS of tier 10 sniper over, say beserker ring that'd be interesting to know too.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

 

Sniper ring scales harshly, because it forces you to not use rapid firing mode.

 

While desperado tier 1 would be =0.07% boost

Tier 1 sniper is actually worse than rapid in terms of damage output, because you sacrifice your +1 firing speed from rapid.

Tier 6-7 sniper is essentially equal to the damage output of rapid without ranging ring.

BUT tier 10 sniper is very good.

You're at tier 8. That's barely better than plain rapid without desperado.

 

Sniper ring is a tier 10 or bust deal.

 

Could you explain how the effect of the sniper ring actually works with hex? Am I correct in my assumption that the 'sniper ring effect' leads to the hit being equal to what the max of the bow would be vs a non-magic monster? If not, how does it work? If my assumption is correct, surely increasing sniper class tier would reduce overall DPS? Or is my assumption correct but the effect of hitting max (non-mage) 50% of the time is significantly better than hitting non-max (mage) all of the time? I'd appreciate it if you could explain the reasoning behind what you said about the tier of the sniper ring and the damage done too please? Sorry for so many questions, I prefer to know the reason why one thing is better than another, rather than just accepting the answer :P

 

P.S. If you somehow know the rough increase in DPS of tier 10 sniper over, say beserker ring that'd be interesting to know too.

No, the sniper effect gives you the max vs the magical monster.

Except on a few bosses it seems, it's being researched.

But pretty much anything with magic level, sniper will give you the magical max, not the non magical max.

[Obtaurian]

Every time you hit 188 or higher with your hex, you'll see the max damage splat. Sniper is pretty simple - you just hit your max a certain percentage of the time. So say, if your max is 400 on a monster and you have t10 sniper, you'll be hitting 400 half the time.

 

Hex on t10 sniper has about twice the DPS of a primal 2h with turmoil on t11 mages.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Every time you hit 188 or higher with your hex, you'll see the max damage splat. Sniper is pretty simple - you just hit your max a certain percentage of the time. So say, if your max is 400 on a monster and you have t10 sniper, you'll be hitting 400 half the time.

 

Hex on t10 sniper has about twice the DPS of a primal 2h with turmoil on t11 mages.

^^ dont forget, you get better accuracy with a bow on mages than with melee.

So the end dps on a tier 11 mage is worth about 3-4 two-handers.

[z0diark]

 

No, the sniper effect gives you the max vs the magical monster.

Except on a few bosses it seems, it's being researched.

But pretty much anything with magic level, sniper will give you the magical max, not the non magical max.

 

Ok, I'll pay attention to what I'm hitting for the next few floors. Also, does (for example) t10 sniper hit it's max for 50% of ALL arrows fired, or just the ones where a 0 isn't hit? Does what you're saying about bosses mean that desperado may be better on them or is that what's being researched? Is there any way I could contribute to the research?

[Obtaurian]

You're just in time to help with data collection:

 

http://grimy.freeforums.org/hexhunter-data-please-contribute-t114.html

[z0diark]

So just post range lvl/arrows/pot/prayer and the max i hit on boss? Unfortunately I only have kata arrows bound right now, would the max with them be of interest or shall I wait 'til I get some Sagg arrows to bind? On that topic, what's the best way to get Sagg arrows? Just wait for a lucky drop from trio or is Saggitaire worth killing for them?

 

Edit: Is it 'DGS' cc I want to go in to dg with you guys?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

So just post range lvl/arrows/pot/prayer and the max i hit on boss? Unfortunately I only have kata arrows bound right now, would the max with them be of interest or shall I wait 'til I get some Sagg arrows to bind? On that topic, what's the best way to get Sagg arrows? Just wait for a lucky drop from trio or is Saggitaire worth killing for them?

wait for drop from trio.

Also don't data collect with until you have sag arrows.

please don't pot/pray when collecting max hits.

But if you need to, tell me when you do it.

[Obtaurian]

So just post range lvl/arrows/pot/prayer and the max i hit on boss? Unfortunately I only have kata arrows bound right now, would the max with them be of interest or shall I wait 'til I get some Sagg arrows to bind? On that topic, what's the best way to get Sagg arrows? Just wait for a lucky drop from trio or is Saggitaire worth killing for them?

 

Edit: Is it 'DGS' cc I want to go in to dg with you guys?

 

No pots or prayer. Do c6 5:5 small furnished Sagittare floors, and definitely hunt for them immediately. EDIT: Grimy disagrees with me . . . let the witchhunt begin . . .

[z0diark]

So just post range lvl/arrows/pot/prayer and the max i hit on boss? Unfortunately I only have kata arrows bound right now, would the max with them be of interest or shall I wait 'til I get some Sagg arrows to bind? On that topic, what's the best way to get Sagg arrows? Just wait for a lucky drop from trio or is Saggitaire worth killing for them?

 

Edit: Is it 'DGS' cc I want to go in to dg with you guys?

 

No pots or prayer. Do c6 5:5 small furnished Sagittare floors, and definitely hunt for them immediately. EDIT: Grimy disagrees with me . . . let the witchhunt begin . . .

 

The problem I see with that is that I don't think I'd be able to find 4 people to hunt for Sagg arrows with me =[

[Grimy_Bunyip]

So just post range lvl/arrows/pot/prayer and the max i hit on boss? Unfortunately I only have kata arrows bound right now, would the max with them be of interest or shall I wait 'til I get some Sagg arrows to bind? On that topic, what's the best way to get Sagg arrows? Just wait for a lucky drop from trio or is Saggitaire worth killing for them?

 

Edit: Is it 'DGS' cc I want to go in to dg with you guys?

 

No pots or prayer. Do c6 5:5 small furnished Sagittare floors, and definitely hunt for them immediately. EDIT: Grimy disagrees with me . . . let the witchhunt begin . . .

 

The problem I see with that is that I don't think I'd be able to find 4 people to hunt for Sagg arrows with me =[

Jimi is spoiled, he can get 4 people to drop hunt with him whenever he wants.

Being a head of DGS lets you do that :P.

 

Hence i recommend patience.

[Obtaurian]

So just post range lvl/arrows/pot/prayer and the max i hit on boss? Unfortunately I only have kata arrows bound right now, would the max with them be of interest or shall I wait 'til I get some Sagg arrows to bind? On that topic, what's the best way to get Sagg arrows? Just wait for a lucky drop from trio or is Saggitaire worth killing for them?

 

Edit: Is it 'DGS' cc I want to go in to dg with you guys?

 

No pots or prayer. Do c6 5:5 small furnished Sagittare floors, and definitely hunt for them immediately. EDIT: Grimy disagrees with me . . . let the witchhunt begin . . .

 

The problem I see with that is that I don't think I'd be able to find 4 people to hunt for Sagg arrows with me =[

Jimi is spoiled, he can get 4 people to drop hunt with him whenever he wants.

Being a head of DGS lets you do that :P.

 

Hence i recommend patience.

 

DGS does drop hunts all the time. ;) I know two people did drop hunts today and Nick did a sagi arrow hunt yesterday. But yeah, just pop in and ask. If I'm on I'll usually do them 'cause furnished bosses are kinda fun.

 

Oh and just so you know my horror story - I saw two gorg and three prom arrow drops from trio before I decided to just do a sagi arrow hunt specifically. I don't want others to feel my pain.

[Michael]

Where as I got sag arrows first time I got trio after I bound hex.

[Blake]

Desperado now works with hex, look at this weeks patch notes