Tip.It Times Tip.It Times - 6th October 2013

[tripsis]

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[Dracae]

I have already gotten a few comments on this article , from some clan mates ( I shamelessly plug the times in there).

On of them was about the way I talk to people in the CC who say bad stuf.

Since chatwatch ( the name of the software) nowadays also automutes for seriously offensive language.. I seem to be at risk.

This because at times I repeat the bad words said to make sure they know what I do not want to hear. Specially when someone claims to not remember what they said..

To me this only emphasizes the flaws with an automated system that can not distinguished between innocent , or even constructive talk using the same words and real bad things all the time.

 

I actually do agree goldselling, gambling and offensive language have no place in our game.. and at times I have been very happy to use chatwatch as an extra warning to some ppl who have a hard tome using clean language, but all in all.. unless Jagex reviews them all and gives all of the accused a real opportunity to appeal.. which they DO NOT and compensation for players mistakenly banned or muted I say: stop automated injustice..

Jagex seems to b.t.w., looking at some screenshots of J-mods convo floating on the web be under the false impression we can all appeal at all times.. since they point to that as the correct thing to do when having problems with a mute or ban.

[helring]

 

I have already gotten a few comments on this article , from some clan mates ( I shamelessly plug the times in there).

On of them was about the way I talk to people in the CC who say bad stuf.

Since chatwatch ( the name of the software) nowadays also automutes for seriously offensive language.. I seem to be at risk.

This because at times I repeat the bad words said to make sure they know what I do not want to hear. Specially when someone claims to not remember what they said..

To me this only emphasizes the flaws with an automated system that can not distinguished between innocent , or even constructive talk using the same words and real bad things all the time.

 

I actually do agree goldselling, gambling and offensive language has no place in our game.. and at times I have been very happy to use chatwatch as an extra warning to some ppl who have a hard tome using clean language, but all in all.. unless Jagex reviews them all and gives all of the accused a real opportunity to appeal.. which they DO NOT and compensation for players mistakenly banned or muted I say: stop automated injustice..

Jagex seems to b.t.w., looking at some screenshots of J-mods convo floating on the web be under the false impression we can all appeal at all times.. since they point to that as the correct thing to do when having problems with a mute or ban.

 

 

 

 

I agree with your overall conclusion, that the automated system is too unreliable to be used. However, I disagree on the offensive language side of it. Unless you're deliberately being abusive to another player to the point where they are uncomfortable and report you, I don't think that offensive language should be muteable. I've never understood why they give the option to remove the filter and then still mute people for offensive language. If its that offensive then just turn the filter back on and add the person to your ignore list. Only in the absolute most egregious instances should they actually mute anyone over it. If you're talking to a friend and they don't actually care, then why does it matter? Offensive language should never be an automatic automated mute.

[Kaida23]

Don't forget, offensive language includes more than just swearing. There are plenty of ways to break that rule without saying anything that would be caught by the filter.

 

That said, I have to agree that the automated system really needs to be either seriously overhauled or simply done away with.

[Dracae]

 

 

I have already gotten a few comments on this article , from some clan mates ( I shamelessly plug the times in there).

On of them was about the way I talk to people in the CC who say bad stuf.

Since chatwatch ( the name of the software) nowadays also automutes for seriously offensive language.. I seem to be at risk.

This because at times I repeat the bad words said to make sure they know what I do not want to hear. Specially when someone claims to not remember what they said..

To me this only emphasizes the flaws with an automated system that can not distinguished between innocent , or even constructive talk using the same words and real bad things all the time.

 

I actually do agree goldselling, gambling and offensive language has no place in our game.. and at times I have been very happy to use chatwatch as an extra warning to some ppl who have a hard tome using clean language, but all in all.. unless Jagex reviews them all and gives all of the accused a real opportunity to appeal.. which they DO NOT and compensation for players mistakenly banned or muted I say: stop automated injustice..

Jagex seems to b.t.w., looking at some screenshots of J-mods convo floating on the web be under the false impression we can all appeal at all times.. since they point to that as the correct thing to do when having problems with a mute or ban.

 

 

 

 

I agree with your overall conclusion, that the automated system is too unreliable to be used. However, I disagree on the offensive language side of it. Unless you're deliberately being abusive to another player to the point where they are uncomfortable and report you, I don't think that offensive language should be muteable. I've never understood why they give the option to remove the filter and then still mute people for offensive language. If its that offensive then just turn the filter back on and add the person to your ignore list. Only in the absolute most egregious instances should they actually mute anyone over it. If you're talking to a friend and they don't actually care, then why does it matter? Offensive language should never be an automatic automated mute.

Don't forget, offensive language includes more than just swearing. There are plenty of ways to break that rule without saying anything that would be caught by the filter.

 

That said, I have to agree that the automated system really needs to be either seriously overhauled or simply done away with.

 

Regardless of merit the system seems flawed, since it has the inherent potential of catching a rather large amount of innocent people AND in all instances I know of it does not even allow for an appeal. This means they willingly let good players get caught between the wheels.

As far as offensive language is concerned I can see your point, but like Kaida said: the filter does not catch a lot of things. To some people, and many friends of mine that doesn't matter, they believe in unrestricted freedom of speech and point out having to think about what you say is not fun and it is a game. Legitimate, but I personally want kids to be able to play this game without parents frowning on what they see and forbidding Runescape. This comes back to the argument of my last article before this: we need new players all the time, they are the lifeblood of this game.

In my clan I do not allow swearing and cursing, or any other 'bad' language. I simply want people to behave themselves and be nice. Wile that is restrictive for the reason that I want no one to feel uncomfortable in a truly global community with so many ages , cultures and personalities there are 2 differences with this automated system.

1- it is human being checking it and we do not ban on sight, we look at the CONTEXT and talk to them. If someone shouts something bad after dieing and losing their stuf the correct reaction is not: 'Language', it is: 'sorry to hear you died".

2- People are free to choose weather to subject themselves to this rule or not, it is a democracy where people can vote with their feet. I must admit.. we ultimately can do the same with this game also though.

 

Darn I am rambling allot.. I am stopping now and I hope many readers will react and discuss the articles!

[BenDover]

Ye you ramble.

[helring]

 

 

 

I have already gotten a few comments on this article , from some clan mates ( I shamelessly plug the times in there).

On of them was about the way I talk to people in the CC who say bad stuf.

Since chatwatch ( the name of the software) nowadays also automutes for seriously offensive language.. I seem to be at risk.

This because at times I repeat the bad words said to make sure they know what I do not want to hear. Specially when someone claims to not remember what they said..

To me this only emphasizes the flaws with an automated system that can not distinguished between innocent , or even constructive talk using the same words and real bad things all the time.

 

I actually do agree goldselling, gambling and offensive language has no place in our game.. and at times I have been very happy to use chatwatch as an extra warning to some ppl who have a hard tome using clean language, but all in all.. unless Jagex reviews them all and gives all of the accused a real opportunity to appeal.. which they DO NOT and compensation for players mistakenly banned or muted I say: stop automated injustice..

Jagex seems to b.t.w., looking at some screenshots of J-mods convo floating on the web be under the false impression we can all appeal at all times.. since they point to that as the correct thing to do when having problems with a mute or ban.

 

 

 

 

I agree with your overall conclusion, that the automated system is too unreliable to be used. However, I disagree on the offensive language side of it. Unless you're deliberately being abusive to another player to the point where they are uncomfortable and report you, I don't think that offensive language should be muteable. I've never understood why they give the option to remove the filter and then still mute people for offensive language. If its that offensive then just turn the filter back on and add the person to your ignore list. Only in the absolute most egregious instances should they actually mute anyone over it. If you're talking to a friend and they don't actually care, then why does it matter? Offensive language should never be an automatic automated mute.

Don't forget, offensive language includes more than just swearing. There are plenty of ways to break that rule without saying anything that would be caught by the filter.

 

That said, I have to agree that the automated system really needs to be either seriously overhauled or simply done away with.

 

Regardless of merit the system seems flawed, since it has the inherent potential of catching a rather large amount of innocent people AND in all instances I know of it does not even allow for an appeal. This means they willingly let good players get caught between the wheels.

As far as offensive language is concerned I can see your point, but like Kaida said: the filter does not catch a lot of things. To some people, and many friends of mine that doesn't matter, they believe in unrestricted freedom of speech and point out having to think about what you say is not fun and it is a game. Legitimate, but I personally want kids to be able to play this game without parents frowning on what they see and forbidding Runescape. This comes back to the argument of my last article before this: we need new players all the time, they are the lifeblood of this game.

In my clan I do not allow swearing and cursing, or any other 'bad' language. I simply want people to behave themselves and be nice. Wile that is restrictive for the reason that I want no one to feel uncomfortable in a truly global community with so many ages , cultures and personalities there are 2 differences with this automated system.

1- it is human being checking it and we do not ban on sight, we look at the CONTEXT and talk to them. If someone shouts something bad after dieing and losing their stuf the correct reaction is not: 'Language', it is: 'sorry to hear you died".

2- People are free to choose weather to subject themselves to this rule or not, it is a democracy where people can vote with their feet. I must admit.. we ultimately can do the same with this game also though.

 

Darn I am rambling allot.. I am stopping now and I hope many readers will react and discuss the articles!

 

 

 

Yea, my clan doesn't allow bad language either. I have no problems with players doing it, or Jagex looking at the report and seeing that the person was being offensive to the person who reported it. The issue I have is with the automatic system. If you happen to be pm'ing a friend then I don't see why the automatic filter should get involved for language. If the person is offended they can report it, if not then Jagex should leave it be. Same with the friend chats and clan chats. I can see a reasoning behind public chat, however considering how dead many areas are nowadays, if you and a friend are in many areas it might as well be a pm cause no one else is gonna show up.

 

Overall I think Jagex should bring more power to the report system and less to their auto-mute, so I think we're in agreement there.

[Dracae]

Ye you ramble.

 

[D. V. Devnull]

@Dracae, I just wanted to stop by and tell you that I think you did an awesome job on your "Automated 'Justice'" article (http://www.tip.it/runescape/times/view/1081-automated-justice). It's straight and to the point, delivers the message clean and clear, and Jagex should take heavy heed of it before they run themselves out of business forever. :thumbsup:

 

~D. V. "Well said!" Devnull

 

 

 

 

[After-Edit by Post's Author because the forum software lost half of the dang post.]

Edited October 10, 2013 by D. V. Devnull

[Dracae]

Thanks for the compliment, lets hope they indeed pay a little attention to the Times...