Evolution of Evolution of Combat

[Cheefoo]

I've been thinking a lot about how to make EoC more interesting. One of my major gripes with the system is the fact that most weapon styles seem to try to accomplish the same role. The roles should be more distinct. Before I get into that, let's just jump right into the ability changes I've been formulating, and I'll explain how it defines each style's role later on.

 

Ability Changes

 

2h Melee

 

-Cleave now not only hits the three square in front of the user, but also one square to their left and right, essentially making a "C" shape.

 

-Alternatively, Cleave's area of effect could be dependent on the weapon type. Crushing 2h (mauls etc.) would hit in the "C" shape mentioned above; slashing 2h (swords etc.) would hit in a 2x3 rectangle in front of the user; stabbing 2h (spear etc.) would hit in a straight line 3 spaces ahead of the user.

 

-Whirlwind hits 219% damage, up from 188%.

 

-Alternatively, Whirlwind functions as a combo attack, dealing AoE damage to the surrounding 3x3 space around you, while allowing freedom of movement.

 

-Quake hits in a much wider radius (similar to Detonate), but no longer reduces defence.

 

-Meteor strike now hits 3x3 around the user. No longer requires target to have 50%+ health, but no longer gives critical adrenaline buff.

 

-Smash ignores all damage reduction including shield abilities, protection prayers and the like. Works on certain NPCs to some extent.

 

 

DW Melee

 

-Decimate and Havoc no longer share a cooldown timer.

 

-Decimate is now a double-hitting attack. Generally does more damage in its two hits, but has a 15 second cooldown and no longer does extra damage to shield users.

 

-Havoc causes you to jump towards the opponent, similar to Barge, and deals two hits. Less damage than Decimate.

 

-Flurry no longer hits AoE around the user. Instead, it deals 8 hits, up from 4 but takes twice as long to complete. Each hit deals extra damage over the last, until one of them misses and the damage is reset for the next attack. Essentially becomes a weaker version of frenzy.

 

 

Single Melee

 

-Kick now deals a small amount of damage as well as pushes back.

 

-Backhand also deals damage, slightly more than kick does.

 

-Fury makes the user resistant to stuns for its duration.

 

 

2h Magic

 

-Sonic Wave deals a small amount of damage to the 3x3 area around the target. No longer increases following attack's accuracy, however.

 

-Detonate is now a 2h only ability. It now causes a marker to appear at the target's location. After 5 seconds, a powerful blast will initiate at the targeted square, dealing damage to all enemies in a wide radius. Any target that is killed by the blast will initiate another blast where they died. This can happen multiple times, but each concurrent blast is halved in power.

 

 

DW Magic

 

-Concentrated Blast's cooldown increased to 10 seconds.

 

-Wild magic is now a DW only ability. Actually shows the two different spells being cast for mainhand and offhand (not just generic fire bolts) and gains any properties they may have (primarily useful for ancient magicks)

 

 

Single Magic

 

-Dragon Breath no longer has reduced accuracy. In addition, it can be activated at a distance against NPCs, and reaches them properly if within proper range. Damage reduced from 188% to 157% or something.

 

-New threshold: Overcharge Cast. 15 second cooldown. Causes you to cast a powered up version of your autocast spell, and consumes the spell's rune cost times ten as an additional cost for the ability. Deals more damage than a regular autocast (dual wielding only activates the mainhand spell, and deals full damage compared to 2h staves - single wielding deals less damage of course), and gains added effects. Ancient magicks will have their normal effects boosted, and normal elemental spells will gain entirely new effects. Fire spells would gain a DoT, similar to the blazer ring in dungeoneering for example.

 

-Combust's DoT effects lasts much longer. Does less damage per "tick" than Fragmentation Shot or Dismember, but if given long enough, will deal the most damage out of all of them.

 

-Metamorphosis and Sunshine share "half" a cooldown. Essentially this means using one will put the other on 30 second cooldown.

 

 

2h Range

 

-Dazing shot deals a small amount of damage to the 3x3 area around the target. No longer reduces following target's attack accuracy, however.

 

-Incendiary Shot takes 5 seconds to activate, but deals damage to the 3x3 area around the target. No longer gives critical adrenaline buff.

 

-Bombardment is now a 2h only ability. DoT effect added, and it can "spread" to adjacent enemies.

 

 

DW Range

 

-New DW only threshold: Suppressing Fire. 20 seconds cooldown. Combo attack. Deals 188% weapon damage over 6 seconds. Target is stunned for the duration. Essentially a ranged version of Asphyxiate and Destroy.

 

-Needle Strike binds the target for 20 seconds (9.6 in PvP). Cooldown increased to 15 seconds.

 

Single Range

 

-Ricochet can now hit up to 3 targets. Radius is still shorter than magic's Chain, however.

 

-Snipe has additional effects depending on the ammunition used. Arrows bind opponent for 20 seconds (9.6 in PvP), bolts apply a bleed effect (high damage in a short time span, cancellable with freedom), thrown weapons apply poison (medium damage in a long time span, requires antipoison to deal with). Cooldown increased to 15 seconds. 3 second "charge" animation changed depending on ammunition: arrows show user applying a net device to the tip, bolts show user applying a gnarly spike to the tip, thrown weapons show user applying poison.

 

 

Shields

 

-Preparation and Revenge activate even when an attack misses the user. They also emit a distinct aura to make it easier to spot in PvP.

 

-Resonate blocks all attacks in a single combo ability, but each hit only heals 25% to the Resonate user.

 

-Shield bash increases the target's damage taken by 20% for 5 seconds.

 

-New basic: Thunder and Lightning. 10 second cooldown. Deals damage based on user's shield armor value and their mainhand weapon. Works with melee, ranged and magic, but all require a close proximity to the target. First shows a quick shield bashing animation, then is followed by the animation of the 3 second basic depending on the mainhand's weapon type (Slice for melee, Wrack for magic, Piercing Shot for ranged). The initial shield bash also does the same damage type as your mainhand, not always melee.

 

-Reflect also reflects stuns for 50% duration. Reflect gives the user a distinct aura to make it easier to spot in PvP. Cooldown increased to 30 seconds.

 

 

General

 

-Barge, Surge and Escape should not share cooldowns. Additionally, their delays after activation should be reduced, allowing for more fluid movement. ALSO, they will break you out of binding effects. Careful use of these abilities can give melee warriors a fighting chance against magic (who already deals large damage to them) and a solid defence of my proposed additions of more ranged-based binding options.

 

-Devotion should only make defensive overhead prayers 75% effective in PvP, down from a full 100%.

 

-Pressing Control+[Ability] should allow you to force target selection. Currently, if you click to activate an ability out of combat, you will be able to select a target for it. It appears like this for example: "Activate Punish -> Target" However, you can't do this during combat with an enemy, because clicking (or pressing the hotkey) will simply activate the ability on your current target. Being able to press CTRL+HOTKEY would allow you to swtich targets more smoothly, no longer requiring you to first autoattack your new target to switch over your focus to them.

 

Roles of Each Weapon style

 

As you may or may not have noticed by now, each "style" of weapon (mage, range, melee, on top of DW, 2H and shield) is supposed to fill some sort of role. Currently these roles are hardly defined, and many styles end up being superior to others. This is definitely problematic, as it makes the game stale and samey. Here's a quick example:

 

2h magic vs. DW magic

 

 

DW is better. Simple as that. Why is it just better? Simple: the only difference between DW magic and 2h magic is one single ability. 2h has Sonic Wave (120% 5s CD, pretty lame ability) while DW has Concentrated Blast (3 hits for 100% each, with increasing crit chances, also only 5s CD). That's that. End of discussion. No need for graphs or charts or whatever.

 

 

Melee and ranged 2h vs. DW isn't as cut and dry, but it both cases, DW generally wins out one way or another (and that isn't taking into account the fact that the only level 90 weapons are DW friendly).

 

Melee DW and melee 2h should play very differently, and have different strengths and weaknesses. Currently there is a reasonable spread of abilities that are unique to melee DW and 2h separately.

 

Melee 2h has: Cleave (10s CD, decent damage, can hit multiple targets in a finicky pattern), Smash (10s CD, decent damage, "turns off" prayers), Whirlwind (20s CD, 3x3 AoE, decent damage), Quake (20s CD, 3x3 AoE, AWFUL damage, useless defence reduction), Meteor Strike (useless Ult., inferior to Overpower), Pulverize (even more useless Ult., inferior to Overpower)

 

2 AoE TH abilities and one AoE basic. Sounds like it's supposed to be good against multiple enemies. Whirlwind does 188% damage for one hit, which is fine as it can hit multiple targets. Quake only does 100% damage, but it can still hit multiple enemies, which is good... right? Melee 2h's role is AoE clearly.

 

Melee DW has: Decimate (10s CD, decent damage), Havoc (shares CD with decimate - useless), Destroy (very powerful combo TH, 20s CD), Flurry (combo TH, deals decent AoE damage, 20s CD), Massacre (decent Ult., comparable to Overpower), Frenzy (very damaging combo Ult., situational use)

 

Two combo thresholds and a combo ultimate. Clearly designed for use against a single target with a large amount of health. But wait- Flurry does AoE? Yeah, now DW melee is treading into 2h's AoE territory. In fact, it does arguably a better job of it. Flurry's multiple hits will probably deal more damage than both Whirlwind and Quake combined.

 

So really, the choice is obvious. Dual wield all the time! Right? NO! Not if I could have my way! The choice should never be obvious. There should always be something to consider, something to plan. Each situation should have its own solutions. That's what I'm proposing with these ability changes listed above.

 

In a nutshell...

2H=AoE

DW=1v1

Shield=tanking/support

 

This is where I'd like to introduce the concept of a "sub triangle" for PvP weapon styles. 2H>Shield>DW>2H It won't be directly enforced (you won't be any more or less accurate depending on how you and your opponent hold weapons) but will be naturally enforced via the mechanics of their abilities. You could already piece it together if you read into my proposed balance changes, and I'll let you think about it for yourself a bit before I explain in fuller detail.

 

2h's AoE focus is clear only for melee, but hardly even executed well. Whirlwind, what is supposed to be the strongest, most dependable AoE is actually quite underwhelming. One big problem melee AoE has if the unfortunate place on the combat triangle where melee is supposed to beat ranged. Ranged opponents often move out of your way, and getting NPCs grouped close to you is difficult when they don't move towards you. If Whirlwind were a combo attack that allowed freedom of movement, functioning like the Barrows Brother's special attack in Rise of the Six, this could perhaps allow players to move around and "gather" a cluster of enemies. Quake's buff could also help melee's intrinsic difficulty with grouping enemies by allowing the 2h user to aggro a wider group of NPCs using an enhanced attack radius. Then the 3x3 radius of Meteor Strike could be used once you have a number of enemies on you.

 

Detonate allows mages to remotely blast a large radius of enemies, and if they are particularly weak, they can destroy masses of them with the "chain reaction" effect. I think it'd be awesome to go into a swarm of dagannoths, ready Detonate and blast through 10 of them in one fell swoop. Of course in PvP it would also be interesting to set a powerful attack down and see opponents scatter, desperately trying to avoid it.

 

Cleave's widened range would allow you to hit enemies to your sides, which is often where they will end up if you're fighting a group. The only way to get cleave to work against NPCs is to finagle them into standing on top of one another. And good luck getting Cleave to work in PvP. Dazing Shot and Sonic Wave give 2h rangers and mages some straightforward chip damage against enemy groups, to make sure their role is clear even when their more powerful TH AoE's are on cooldown, as Cleave does with melee 2h.

 

Smash currently only deactivates overhead protective prayers, which is only good for PvP, and hardly so. A simple click on the prayer can get it activated instantly again, so with quick enough reflexes, your opponent could get their prayer back up before you could even follow up with a single attack! Smash ignoring damage reductions would give it a more general use, and will also play into the "sub triangle" of PvP.

 

DW is more suited for 1v1 encounters against stronger enemies with more health. Already this is the case, but because it also functions well in AoE, and is all around better than 2h, it's really no difference to the playstyle. Combo abilities are naturally more effective against stronger opponents, because using them against weaker ones will usually result in a massive amount of overkill loss, because most simple slayer monsters die by the time you get one or two combo hits off.

 

It's only natural that wielding two weapons will allow you to hit more often, so Decimate and Havoc are given double-hitting properties (this plays into the PvP sub triangle). Havoc can allow you to break out from binds and stay on top of your opponent. This is to counteract the addition of Needle Strike's bind and Snipe's arrow-based binding effect. Flurry's change also heavily encourages fighting high HP targets, because you can deal great amounts of damage against a foe that survives the entire combo. "Suppressing Fire" gives ranged DW a new combo ability to bring them in line with Asphyx. and Destroy.

 

I can't really go on to explain shields' finer points without further going into detail with the "sub triangle". 2h beats shields, shields beat DW and DW beats 2h.

 

Shield roles are suited to tanking damage for your friends, or just surviving in a high stakes engagement. Supposedly there is already a buff to shields in the works pertaining to their armor boost and perhaps damage reductions, so I will only be touching on the mechanics of shield abilities. Preparation and Revenge currently only reward you for getting hit, which seems completely counter-intuitive for a defensive playstyle. This, along with Resonance's buff to block full combos, will give them an edge versus DW's heavy reliance on combos and multiple hits. Hitting a shield user with a long Flurry will probably get their Revenge boost to quite high levels, Destroy/Suppressing Fire can get instantly interrupted by Reflect's stun returning capability, and as well as Resonance's full ability to block combos, a DW user should be careful when any of these abilities are off cooldown.

 

While shields are now best capable at dealing with multiple hits, they remain vulnerable to single hitting attacks which 2h has a number of. On top of that, melee's Smash being able to hit them even while they're behind Resonance or Barricade means they can't be too sure the next attack won't be a knockout blow when face to face with a 2h wielder.

 

Finally is DW's dominance over 2h, which is pretty self explanatory. DW, being designed to deal as much damage as possible to a single target is left mostly unimpeded by 2h's fighting style. 2h lacks any extra means of stunning their opponent to interrupt combos, and will generally deal less damage to the DWer.

 

Shield's change to Shield Bash is also pretty role defining in the case of boss fighting PvM. Currently, a shielder is no more than a safety net against most bosses. In case something goes wrong (which optimally it shouldn't) the shieldman will be there making sure as little damage is being taken as possible. Most bosses don't even require this level of care, and bringing a shield user along is like hiring an expensive bodyguard to attend a child's birthday party. Shield Bashing can essentially increase the entire team's DPS by 20% for 5 seconds every 15 seconds. That means a single shield user can effectively function as a 6.667% increase to total DPS, as well as taking damage for the other players. The advantage of taking even one shieldman greatly increases as the team size does because of this.

 

[making weapons more unique]

 

[new hit sounds/visual effects to make combat FEEL good]

 

[vaguely combat related shit I'd like improved]

 

I'll work on finishing this ASAP. I was considering posting on Reddit, as Jagex mods might actually READ it that way, but I'm unfamiliar with Reddit. I might just ask one of you guys to post it there on my behalf, but I'm not sure yet.

 

BRB with the rest of this

[Quyneax]

I don't think you can balance the combat system simply by increasing power levels.

[Cheefoo]

I don't think you can balance the combat system simply by increasing power levels.

I'm not really trying to "buff everything", as much as I want specific styles to be buffed in a specific way, so they are each given a defined role. I would like to touch a bit on overall difficulty and triviality of most combat at certain levels, but for now it might look like I just want everything buffed.

 

Though honestly it wouldn't hurt the game that much. If the combat was more diverse and fun, I wouldn't mind making the game overall "easier".

 

I really gotta finish explaining myself in the OP before this is going to make total sense.

[Quyneax]

You're still only targeting abilities, when the real problem goes much deeper, down into the equipment system and level/equipment balance.

 

I'm wondering why you would make 2h the AoE specialist, when we have barrage (and chins) as primary/traditional AoE attacks, which are not 2h-specific, and when higher attack speed is better for AoE blasting. In the same way I'm wondering why dual wield would be any good versus targets with more lp - those are typically monsters with high defence, and those are weaker versus 2h weapons, ideally spears and pikes or polehammers or something. I'm also not convinced that melee needs a powerful AoE ability at all - in my opinion, it would be better to go back to pre-EoC styles with melee having more defence but no range, ranged requiring no melee defence and magic relying heavily on freezing and debuffing to survive.

 

I know I've posted this a lot already, but this is my suggestion: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1364ur0y9FBkzGCMt1146Xhe8wNWnL3zEgN6I3YD6aZE/edit?pli=1. I see you came up with/copied the dw > 2h > shield > dw triangle, which is good (suppose that it has merits).

[Rensiv]

i like this update

[Gang Sabre]

Ooo nice post Chefoo :)

 

I read it all.