Reinventing the Squeal

[Estoc]

When does that phrase stop being a reasonable response to every concern? I get that high level stuff is supposed to be exclusive, but I don't think I've ever seen that phrase used as anything other than a condescending way to shove aside anyone who doesn't like the idea of spending a thousand hours to earn  the "right" to grind for a thousand more.

 

How much is too much?

 

You're asking why you have to spend so much time playing an mmo to get to the endgame. I said it's to retain the exclusivity of the endgame. Any way I put it, it will boil down to "that's just how mmos work, they take a lot of time", whether that time is required to make the endgame more appealing or to provide goals for midgame players. Not trying to be offensive, I just don't know how else to answer your question.

 

 

 

 

your goal is lvl 99

jagex add tons of bonus xp

99 lvl isn't big accomplishment anymore

 

Solution: set new goal: 26m xp

The prestige system got shot down, sorry. I wish they did some reset system.

 

 

You can perfectly set a new goal at 26m. It's only an issue when you hit 200m, and frankly.. at that point you've done enough of the skill.

 

To add a few more thoughts on the gambling part:

 

Who cares how this 'squeal' is displayed, or to what extent it's gambling. If that's really an issue, odds of 'getting lucky' should be removed throughout the game, meaning:

* Fixed reward rotation for clues

* Fixed rotation drop tables for all npcs

* Fixed reward rotation for barrows

* Fixed outcomes for herb patches based on a known set of parameters

* ....

If the use of random generators is perceived as tolerable, it's all or nothing imho.

 

About the amount of exp from world events / hati/skoll etc.

 

Could agree on hati/skoll being a bit exp-heavy, but the thing is... we're on a top-heavy level pyramid as it is. If you don't make it worthwhile for the top end, your event is a flop. I

 

 

Removing the random element would take the entire appeal of the game away. Like it or not, we are playing one enormous gambling simulator. Drops, attacking, defending, minigames, events....all branches on the great RNG tree.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

When does that phrase stop being a reasonable response to every concern? I get that high level stuff is supposed to be exclusive, but I don't think I've ever seen that phrase used as anything other than a condescending way to shove aside anyone who doesn't like the idea of spending a thousand hours to earn  the "right" to grind for a thousand more.

 

How much is too much?

 

You're asking why you have to spend so much time playing an mmo to get to the endgame. I said it's to retain the exclusivity of the endgame. Any way I put it, it will boil down to "that's just how mmos work, they take a lot of time", whether that time is required to make the endgame more appealing or to provide goals for midgame players. Not trying to be offensive, I just don't know how else to answer your question.

 

 

The trouble is your stance is kinda from a dying breed of gamer in a game market not so fitting for it anymore.

Runescape takes a heck of a lot of time to reach the endgame compared to the vast majority of mmos, even with all these things making it 'easier' and with the way they gaming market is playing with casual gamers more now and the way mmo success in general is moving it seems games were you reach the end-game and then have a bunch of stuff to do are more popular than those where you trudge through hours upon hours of the early and midgame just in the hopes of someday maybe reaching the end-game.

 

That changing market climate does make it a very real issue of at what point does the idea of it being too easy and that just being how mmos just become an excuse to ignore the fact that runescape takes a heck of a lot of hours to get to the end game and in many ways that aspect of it is starting to place it outside of the market that is doing well due to sticking with an older model of gameplay for the sake of appeasing older players who dislike things changing ot be easier and brushing aside concerns with 'well thats an mmo for you'

 

At what point do you face the issue that such a pre-game is potentially driving away lots of new players? At what point do you deal with the fact making the end-game so exclusive most average gamers simply can't ever hope to reach it also drives away players? Or do you just sit blindly in your castle and say well thats mmos right up until the point the entire game crumbles to dust around you due to such things making it lose its edge in the modern gaming market?

[Estoc]

 

 

When does that phrase stop being a reasonable response to every concern? I get that high level stuff is supposed to be exclusive, but I don't think I've ever seen that phrase used as anything other than a condescending way to shove aside anyone who doesn't like the idea of spending a thousand hours to earn  the "right" to grind for a thousand more.

 

How much is too much?

 

You're asking why you have to spend so much time playing an mmo to get to the endgame. I said it's to retain the exclusivity of the endgame. Any way I put it, it will boil down to "that's just how mmos work, they take a lot of time", whether that time is required to make the endgame more appealing or to provide goals for midgame players. Not trying to be offensive, I just don't know how else to answer your question.

 

 

The trouble is your stance is kinda from a dying breed of gamer in a game market not so fitting for it anymore.

Runescape takes a heck of a lot of time to reach the endgame compared to the vast majority of mmos, even with all these things making it 'easier' and with the way they gaming market is playing with casual gamers more now and the way mmo success in general is moving it seems games were you reach the end-game and then have a bunch of stuff to do are more popular than those where you trudge through hours upon hours of the early and midgame just in the hopes of someday maybe reaching the end-game.

 

That changing market climate does make it a very real issue of at what point does the idea of it being too easy and that just being how mmos just become an excuse to ignore the fact that runescape takes a heck of a lot of hours to get to the end game and in many ways that aspect of it is starting to place it outside of the market that is doing well due to sticking with an older model of gameplay for the sake of appeasing older players who dislike things changing ot be easier and brushing aside concerns with 'well thats an mmo for you'

 

At what point do you face the issue that such a pre-game is potentially driving away lots of new players? At what point do you deal with the fact making the end-game so exclusive most average gamers simply can't ever hope to reach it also drives away players? Or do you just sit blindly in your castle and say well thats mmos right up until the point the entire game crumbles to dust around you due to such things making it lose its edge in the modern gaming market?

 

 

I completely agree, though I don't hold out any hope of Jagex coming to terms with the problem and fixing it.

[Fallstar]

 

 

When does that phrase stop being a reasonable response to every concern? I get that high level stuff is supposed to be exclusive, but I don't think I've ever seen that phrase used as anything other than a condescending way to shove aside anyone who doesn't like the idea of spending a thousand hours to earn  the "right" to grind for a thousand more.

 

How much is too much?

 

You're asking why you have to spend so much time playing an mmo to get to the endgame. I said it's to retain the exclusivity of the endgame. Any way I put it, it will boil down to "that's just how mmos work, they take a lot of time", whether that time is required to make the endgame more appealing or to provide goals for midgame players. Not trying to be offensive, I just don't know how else to answer your question.

 

 

The trouble is your stance is kinda from a dying breed of gamer in a game market not so fitting for it anymore.

Runescape takes a heck of a lot of time to reach the endgame compared to the vast majority of mmos, even with all these things making it 'easier' and with the way they gaming market is playing with casual gamers more now and the way mmo success in general is moving it seems games were you reach the end-game and then have a bunch of stuff to do are more popular than those where you trudge through hours upon hours of the early and midgame just in the hopes of someday maybe reaching the end-game.

 

That changing market climate does make it a very real issue of at what point does the idea of it being too easy and that just being how mmos just become an excuse to ignore the fact that runescape takes a heck of a lot of hours to get to the end game and in many ways that aspect of it is starting to place it outside of the market that is doing well due to sticking with an older model of gameplay for the sake of appeasing older players who dislike things changing ot be easier and brushing aside concerns with 'well thats an mmo for you'

 

At what point do you face the issue that such a pre-game is potentially driving away lots of new players? At what point do you deal with the fact making the end-game so exclusive most average gamers simply can't ever hope to reach it also drives away players? Or do you just sit blindly in your castle and say well thats mmos right up until the point the entire game crumbles to dust around you due to such things making it lose its edge in the modern gaming market?

 

 

This is incorrect however.

 

If what you say is true, I doubt TES:O would have such a long way to go to get to the end game, never mind rewarding truly excessive grinding in a far more useful fashion than RS does.

 

They've spent over $200M developing it, I expect their research on the behaviour of MMO players and what gets them hooked and keeps them playing is about as thorough as is possible.

[kamil1210]

 

 

your goal is lvl 99
jagex add tons of bonus xp
99 lvl isn't big accomplishment anymore

Solution: set new goal: 26m xp

The prestige system got shot down, sorry. I wish they did some reset system.

 

 

 

old runescape:

set goal lvl 50

you get lvl 50 

more ppl get lvl 50

lvl 50 isn't now high lvl

set new goal: lvl 75

...

 

now:

set goal: lvl 99

you get lvl 99

more ppl get lvl 99

lvl 99 isn't now high lvl

set new goal: 30m xp

...

 

 

Now is the same as before just numbers are bigger. If you want to be on top you have to improve your skills continuously. It was like this from beggining of runescape and it have nothing to do with prestige system.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

your goal is lvl 99

jagex add tons of bonus xp

99 lvl isn't big accomplishment anymore

 

Solution: set new goal: 26m xp

The prestige system got shot down, sorry. I wish they did some reset system.

 

 

 

old runescape:

set goal lvl 50

you get lvl 50 

more ppl get lvl 50

lvl 50 isn't now high lvl

set new goal: lvl 75

...

 

now:

set goal: lvl 99

you get lvl 99

more ppl get lvl 99

lvl 99 isn't now high lvl

set new goal: 30m xp

...

 

 

Now is the same as before just numbers are bigger. If you want to be on top you have to improve your skills continuously. It was like this from beggining of runescape and it have nothing to do with prestige system.

 

 

Quantity matters, the fact that the numbers are bigger matter. Also, this isn't a matter of people really improving their skills. It's a matter of most them being very easy and fast to train, and then Jagex dumping loads of free experience at every step on top of that -- that's what has led to this 'devaluation', it was not a natural or healthy progression.

[kamil1210]

nvm