God, from a programmer's point of view.

[kelem_ryu]

 

 

Kind of off topic; but assuming that the "Big Bang" is true, where did that remarkably dense ball of matter come from originally?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It, like a god, has to come from somewhere. Unless it somehow created itself, in which case it is god. But it probably didn't, and I refuse to believe that one day it just was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well like I said, one day it just was there, whatever "it" may be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's impossible for something to come from nothing...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

think of it like this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing

 

 

 

Nothing

 

 

 

Nothing

 

 

 

vanished!!- SOMETHING BIGBANG!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't get somthing from nothing... it just isn't possible... Also nothing is unatainable in our world, thinking of nothing as a white sheet won't work because white is a color which is somthing... you just can't imigine nothing... our brains are too febal...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually the Buddhists believe that only nothing is real. Everything else is an illusion. As far as i figured it out it can be imagined like the surface of a waterbody (nothing). When you throw a stone into it, or wind comes up you got waves (something). However they also claim, that you need to meditate years over this topic to fully comprehend it.

[Guest GhostRanger]

to bjbj1991, ghostranger and all those other people mentioning that god still could not have come from nothing. Remember that using this theory, the laws of science only apply here. As it would only be a simulation. Maybe in the programmers world people and things appear from thin air all the time. Maybe there isn't even something to appear to, maybe they are really just thaughts, not physical. And we are a physical simulation they have created. The possibilities are endless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say there had to be a physical something - but there still has to be an uncaused cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aristotle's uncaused cause (Aristotle was the first person to come up with the idea after realizing all other movement would require an infinite regress) was a thought - so that agrees entirely with you. There still has to be something that causes existance without having to be caused itself.

[kelem_ryu]

 

to bjbj1991, ghostranger and all those other people mentioning that god still could not have come from nothing. Remember that using this theory, the laws of science only apply here. As it would only be a simulation. Maybe in the programmers world people and things appear from thin air all the time. Maybe there isn't even something to appear to, maybe they are really just thaughts, not physical. And we are a physical simulation they have created. The possibilities are endless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say there had to be a physical something - but there still has to be an uncaused cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aristotle's uncaused cause (Aristotle was the first person to come up with the idea after realizing all other movement would require an infinite regress) was a thought - so that agrees entirely with you. There still has to be something that causes existance without having to be caused itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... Whoever can prove it's nature will harvest the worship of generations of philosophers. :P

[Ragen]

 

 

 

Kind of off topic; but assuming that the "Big Bang" is true, where did that remarkably dense ball of matter come from originally?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It, like a god, has to come from somewhere. Unless it somehow created itself, in which case it is god. But it probably didn't, and I refuse to believe that one day it just was.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well like I said, one day it just was there, whatever "it" may be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's impossible for something to come from nothing...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

think of it like this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing

 

 

 

Nothing

 

 

 

Nothing

 

 

 

vanished!!- SOMETHING BIGBANG!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't get somthing from nothing... it just isn't possible... Also nothing is unatainable in our world, thinking of nothing as a white sheet won't work because white is a color which is somthing... you just can't imigine nothing... our brains are too febal...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is that "nothing" never existed. There was never "nothing" because that is impossible. There was always something there at the start. That something may be god, or the matter for the big bang, ect. But it was all there at the begining.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like you said, it's impossible for something to come out of nothing. It just can't happen. However, it can be true that "nothing" just never existed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understood the big bang theory to be energy turning into mass. There is also the big crunch theory, where as one universe ends and becomes a singularity, another is born from the same singularity (I think).

[Guest GhostRanger]

 

 

to bjbj1991, ghostranger and all those other people mentioning that god still could not have come from nothing. Remember that using this theory, the laws of science only apply here. As it would only be a simulation. Maybe in the programmers world people and things appear from thin air all the time. Maybe there isn't even something to appear to, maybe they are really just thaughts, not physical. And we are a physical simulation they have created. The possibilities are endless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say there had to be a physical something - but there still has to be an uncaused cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aristotle's uncaused cause (Aristotle was the first person to come up with the idea after realizing all other movement would require an infinite regress) was a thought - so that agrees entirely with you. There still has to be something that causes existance without having to be caused itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... Whoever can prove it's nature will harvest the worship of generations of philosophers. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except that is most likely impossible - due to the fact that whatever it is, is beyond our physical/natural world - and you can't prove the supernatural via natural means - and natural means is all we have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Ragen: I believe it's a fairly recent theory that speculates the big bang came from singularity of another Universe because of the recent theory that black holes can tear through the fabric of space instead of just bending it.

[kelem_ryu]

 

 

 

to bjbj1991, ghostranger and all those other people mentioning that god still could not have come from nothing. Remember that using this theory, the laws of science only apply here. As it would only be a simulation. Maybe in the programmers world people and things appear from thin air all the time. Maybe there isn't even something to appear to, maybe they are really just thaughts, not physical. And we are a physical simulation they have created. The possibilities are endless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say there had to be a physical something - but there still has to be an uncaused cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aristotle's uncaused cause (Aristotle was the first person to come up with the idea after realizing all other movement would require an infinite regress) was a thought - so that agrees entirely with you. There still has to be something that causes existance without having to be caused itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... Whoever can prove it's nature will harvest the worship of generations of philosophers. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except that is most likely impossible - due to the fact that whatever it is, is beyond our physical/natural world - and you can't prove the supernatural via natural means - and natural means is all we have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Ragen: I believe it's a fairly recent theory that speculates the big bang came from singularity of another Universe because of the recent theory that black holes can tear through the fabric of space instead of just bending it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hm.. but isn't the uncaused cause something like the holy grail of philosophy? So there has to be a way, scientific or not, to figure out what's it all about. Otherwise metaphysics would be pretty pointless (?). Isn't the uncaused cause the same thing theology concerns itself with?

[Guest GhostRanger]

Hm.. but isn't the uncaused cause something like the holy grail of philosophy? So there has to be a way, scientific or not, to figure out what's it all about. Otherwise metaphysics would be pretty pointless (?). Isn't the uncaused cause the same thing theology concerns itself with?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That doesn't mean it can be figured out. Socrates, when he spoke of the Good - oftentimes said that he didn't know if we would ever be able to know anything about the Good. The point of metaphysics isn't always finding the answer, it's trying to find the answer.

[trapical]

Uh guys, mass can come from nothing. In all honesty it's really freaking complicated (hurray college physics!) but it is related to m=Gamma m(o) (aka E=mc^2)

 

 

 

If anyone's interested there's a little bit about it on Wikipedia under ADM energy. (at least some astrophysics back knowledge recommended)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As sensible that I can make it

 

 

 

-Think of a proton... what color is it if you could see it? Answer, it's made a quarks but what color are they? Well they all essentially just condensed balls of energy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Light and energy can be created in the cosmos essentially from nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-There are 10^500 universes, with matter and gravity leaking between them perpetually at astronomical rates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Astrophysics in general makes no real sense. I mean a singularity is has infinite mass and infinite gravity. When two meet they formÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ just one singularity only big as either of the first two were. So what happened to the other one?

[ROBOSRUS]

......Reading this thread gave me a sudden image and guess what it was? The Matrix!

 

 

 

But anyway this thing is ridiculous. We probably won't live long enough to solve this and probably never will. It is just an endless chain after chain which of course will never end! But for me I do have a religion and a god...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and dictionary definitions of god and others are being used too literally...

[cyco]

......Reading this thread gave me a sudden image and guess what it was? The Matrix!

 

 

 

But anyway this thing is ridiculous. We probably won't live long enough to solve this and probably never will. It is just an endless chain after chain which of course will never end! But for me I do have a religion and a god...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and dictionary definitions of god and others are being used too literally...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't matter how long we lived. It would still be impossible to figure it out.

[insane]

essentially from nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Essentially from nothing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically what you mean is, physicists have ascribed a new definition to the word nothing so that they can get around that roadblock.

[Notorious_Ice]

There still has to be something that causes existance without having to be caused itself.

 

 

 

No there doesn't. If the laws of physics only applied here, everything else would only apply here too. Our logic could be completely different to "god's."

[Death_By_Pod]

Uh guys, mass can come from nothing. In all honesty it's really freaking complicated (hurray college physics!) but it is related to m=Gamma m(o) (aka E=mc^2)

 

 

 

If anyone's interested there's a little bit about it on Wikipedia under ADM energy. (at least some astrophysics back knowledge recommended)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As sensible that I can make it

 

 

 

-Think of a proton... what color is it if you could see it? Answer, it's made a quarks but what color are they? Well they all essentially just condensed balls of energy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Light and energy can be created in the cosmos essentially from nothing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-There are 10^500 universes, with matter and gravity leaking between them perpetually at astronomical rates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Astrophysics in general makes no real sense. I mean a singularity is has infinite mass and infinite gravity. When two meet they formÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ just one singularity only big as either of the first two were. So what happened to the other one?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That mass doesn't come from nothing, when you accelerate something close to the speed of light, some energy is converted to mass according to the formula you gave. The total mass-energy of the system is conserved. The mass isn't coming from nothing, it is coming from the energy of the system; you're converting from energy into mass (which isn't necessarily the physical mass of the object, otherwise a contradiction between two different frames will occur).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rest of what you wrote doesn't make any sense. Light and energy can't appear from nothing. It can appear but due to conservation laws, it cant be permanent; unlike what you imply. There is no solid theory (if one were to exist) of 10^500 universes with mass and energy leaking between them; it would be impossible to prove.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gravitational singularities are a mathematical concept which usually means that the model is wrong. Since we can never observe a singularity it would be a matter of philosophy to argue whether a gravitational singularity exists. Since black holes themselves don't have infinite gravity or mass it wouldn't make sense for it to have a singularity. Furthermore singularities can only exist if you assume that space is continuous (which isn't true in some theories).

[runesmithie]

On a lighter note:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And uid0 issued "make life", and saw that it completed with zero errors.

[X_Seismic_X]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing about God is that, you can't just ask "who created God". Because God created himself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That seems a little stupid to me: if he created himself, he must have existed to be able to create - if there was nothing there, he could not have been created from nothing.

[Notorious_Ice]

 

 

 

That seems a little stupid to me: if he created himself, he must have existed to be able to create - if there was nothing there, he could not have been created from nothing.

 

 

 

You sir, are an idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have already explained 3 times how what you just said is not a valid argument, and it is completely plausable.

[agresser]

You know, an interesting link can be made between how computers run, and creation theory. Computers run on 0s and 1s. Nothing and Something. This fundamental difference between Something and Nothing is the basis for every theory about the creation of the universe. Just an intersting sidenote.

[runesmithie]

You know, an interesting link can be made between how computers run, and creation theory. Computers run on 0s and 1s. Nothing and Something. This fundamental difference between Something and Nothing is the basis for every theory about the creation of the universe. Just an intersting sidenote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think if you get more basic than that, they don't run on 5v and 0v anymore, but on any level from 0-12v ... someone correct me if I'm wrong

[cyco]

You know, an interesting link can be made between how computers run, and creation theory. Computers run on 0s and 1s. Nothing and Something. This fundamental difference between Something and Nothing is the basis for every theory about the creation of the universe. Just an intersting sidenote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing your talking about how black is nothing and white is everything?

 

 

 

And in real life Black is everything and white is nothing? (Or is it the other way around I forget)