American Birthright Citizenship

[jak722]

Are we still talking about babies here? :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It kinda went and became another generic immigration debate again...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wanted to talk about babies... :(

[timmay929]

 

I think they should somehow take out this amendment so that they are not american citizens until they get their green card or whatever its called, no matter where they are born. If you go to a 7-11 by my house in the morning, there is 15+ mexican people waiting for work. I bet if you ask any one of them if they are citizens they will either:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Not be a citizen themselves, but has a kid that does

 

 

 

2) Wont understand you because they cant speak english

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of them ride bikes because none of them are able to get a license. They take advantage of the system and it affects people that actually work for their money on the books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How are they taking advantage of the system? They're working. It seems to me that you dislike them because...well...gosh, those beaners can't speak American right and they have little beaner kids. Horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ill tell you how they take advantage of the system. They have 10+ of them living in the same house so they are paying less than $200 rent per month, while the government is giving them money and they work under the table and don't get any taxes taken off their pay. They don't drive a car so they don't have to worry about car payments or insurance. So they take x amount of their left over money and send it back to Mexico where the rest of their family is livin easy.

[thedepressedsquirrel]

 

 

 

Ill tell you how they take advantage of the system. They have 10+ of them living in the same house so they are paying less than $200 rent per month, while the government is giving them money and they work under the table and don't get any taxes taken off their pay. They don't drive a car so they don't have to worry about car payments or insurance. So they take x amount of their left over money and send it back to Mexico where the rest of their family is livin easy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So this is your idea of "taking advantage of the system":

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) living with 10 other people in a small house

 

 

 

2) working below minimum wage (but no taxes! which means $5 a day instead of $3. hurray!)

 

 

 

3) not being able to afford/drive a car. (because having insurance is so much worse than walking for two hours to work every day)

 

 

 

4) sending what little money they have back to their impoverished relatives in Mexico

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand. If those things are so great, then why don't you make that your lifestyle?

[Mementh]

the problem i am having is the amount of legal immigration

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=numbersusa&hl=en

 

 

 

watch that!!!! it will blow your mind

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now illegal immigration.. i propose a change.. if your born in this country.. to be a citizen you must have at least one parent thats a citizen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or the parents leave and the child is raised by the government.. sorry but the child is taken care of and the parents are punished for breaking the law

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i mean its just like drop trading.. you drop your items on one account and.. ohh your other account just HAPPENS to find them.. your getting a benifit for breaking the law

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ohhh i am pregnant and have my child in America so they are a citizen.. but you can't send me back because i am the parent..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ugh!!!

[Auberean]

The main point of this post is "Does the 14th Amendment need updating?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone else seems to be turing it into a discussion of illegal immigration and immigrants' rights in general. Which is basically a whole 'nother issue in itself ("Where do we draw the line between helping others and preserving our own quality of life").

[dusqi]

 

 

 

Where do we draw the line between helping others and preserving our own quality of life

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not the immigration issue at all. Allowing immigration isn't altruistic. Immigrants tend to do lower paid work, which means that you can buy things like houses, and get service in restaurants, for a cheaper price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The UK has recently had a similar debate... since the UK recently opened up its borders to some Eastern European countries, and had 600,000 immigrants (in a country with a population of about 60m) when the government had predicted 16,000. Sounds like a disaster? Far from it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"80% of new arrivals in the UK are working people aged between 18 and 35"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"One study, by the accountancy firm Grant Thornton, concluded that as much as one percentage point of UK growth in 2005 and 2006 was contributed by migrants."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most people in this thread are talking about immigrants getting welfare. But no one has posted any figures. I expect the figures are similar to the UK. Immigrants work hard, and aren't on welfare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is related to the debate about the 14th Amendment... because you are all assuming that the problem with it is that immigrants are cheating the system to get citizenship, and then lounging about taking your tax money. Far from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(and for the record.. I'm not massively liberal when it comes to these kinds of social issues. I've lived in an area of the UK that has a high proportion of migrants, and it makes me a bit uncomfortable. But, you can't argue with figures like those above.)

[ford_rule]

 

Well, I can prove I don't need the money. My family is fairly well off though we need to make at least $20,000 a month to pay our bills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a little more than well-off. Like a little way more

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

maybe $20000 viet dongs lol?

[Auberean]

 

 

 

 

Where do we draw the line between helping others and preserving our own quality of life

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not the immigration issue at all. Allowing immigration isn't altruistic. Immigrants tend to do lower paid work, which means that you can buy things like houses, and get service in restaurants, for a cheaper price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The UK has recently had a similar debate... since the UK recently opened up its borders to some Eastern European countries, and had 600,000 immigrants (in a country with a population of about 60m) when the government had predicted 16,000. Sounds like a disaster? Far from it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"80% of new arrivals in the UK are working people aged between 18 and 35"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"One study, by the accountancy firm Grant Thornton, concluded that as much as one percentage point of UK growth in 2005 and 2006 was contributed by migrants."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most people in this thread are talking about immigrants getting welfare. But no one has posted any figures. I expect the figures are similar to the UK. Immigrants work hard, and aren't on welfare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is related to the debate about the 14th Amendment... because you are all assuming that the problem with it is that immigrants are cheating the system to get citizenship, and then lounging about taking your tax money. Far from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(and for the record.. I'm not massively liberal when it comes to these kinds of social issues. I've lived in an area of the UK that has a high proportion of migrants, and it makes me a bit uncomfortable. But, you can't argue with figures like those above.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I was going a little off-topic there. The main point of my argument, or what I was trying to make it, is that immigrants protected by their citizen children are given federal benefits regardless of whether or not they pay taxes. That's not to say every single immigrant sits around and does nothing all day, but there still are a large portion who do, costing states (mainly California) billions of dollars each year.

[LGBR]

Ok, ill add to this topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My family makes atleast 400K a year, moms a doctor and dad owns an insurance agency. We live in a nice neighborhood and when I was growing up I always had the benefit of my loving aunt living in the neighborhood across the railroad tracks, she makes a nice living but lives in a little apartment because she lives alone and doesnt need a lot of space. She has lived there for 20+ years and she has seen it change, it went from nice little apartments with minimum income rules, limited occupancy etc to now a drug ridden mexican barrio, but I havent even gotten to the main part. Four years ago she was shot in the chest by a mexican gangster who was trying to shoot some other mexican who ripped him off in a heroin deal, the shooter just drove off. She was ok but she immediately moved away and I no longer have her convenience near by. This kind of things happens a few times a month. I think the value of my entire neighborhood has gone down about 30% in the past few years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of you people who are talking about immigration being ok dont even live in the US. It is almost impossible for me to get a job when I was a teenager, infact it was impossible. Not a single friend of mine has a job unless their dad or relative owned\\ was manager of a local business. Immigrants have taken every low paying job around here so unless you go to college you are screwed for life.

[BlueLancer]

That's not to say every single immigrant sits around and does nothing all day, but there still are a large portion who do, costing states (mainly California) billions of dollars each year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source?

[Auberean]

 

That's not to say every single immigrant sits around and does nothing all day, but there still are a large portion who do, costing states (mainly California) billions of dollars each year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not real big on online sources, but this should be enough. You can search around on google if you want to find more links.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although, there is another interesting factor to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The tax problem also seems to be caused by low education levels. It's interesting to see what we'll do and what will happen, because I'm really not able to predict anything with any degree of accuracy right now.

[BlueLancer]

The deficit is caused because:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see anywhere being said the money is just shoved in front of them, they use the same services as other americans do (they *are* humans with needs). The $2.7k per household is clearly caused because they work below minimum wage. How do you expect them to earn more, say $40k a year like an average american?

[Viktorkrum77]

Is the policy out of date? Yes. The aliens sneak into our country illegally, have a child, then are allowed to stay here and are given money! All of my living family (and many that are no longer living) were all born here in the US but we don't get free money from the government. I don't mind if they stay in the country, but why should we give them money!? They broke the law to get here, don't give the criminals money! Gah, makes me angry..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can relate. I despise welfare. I'm not saying some people don't use it correctly, but some just use it to buy uneeded things. For example, I remember this kid who had gotten $2000 welfare, so what did he do with it you ask? He went out and bought a $1000 pair of shoes!! Garhh!! That makes me angry, because that's my parents well earned money. Given to these lazy people who can't work and earn a living like everyone else. You should not be buying these kinds of things unless you deserve them!! This is one reason I don't agree with Democrats, because they support higher welfare. :XD:

[Auberean]

The deficit is caused because:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see anywhere being said the money is just shoved in front of them, they use the same services as other americans do (they *are* humans with needs). The $2.7k per household is clearly caused because they work below minimum wage. How do you expect them to earn more, say $40k a year like an average american?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're still allowed to take money from the government without paying back. What is it that makes America responsible for helping out the uneducated? This isn't about race, it's about citizenship. The first thing an illegal immigrant does is break the law by entering illegally. If that's the first thing they do and they get away with it, it says little about our system and teaches that the government can be stolen from. What I'm concerned with is that these people take the steps necessary to become citizens.

[BlueLancer]

 

Is the policy out of date? Yes. The aliens sneak into our country illegally, have a child, then are allowed to stay here and are given money! All of my living family (and many that are no longer living) were all born here in the US but we don't get free money from the government. I don't mind if they stay in the country, but why should we give them money!? They broke the law to get here, don't give the criminals money! Gah, makes me angry..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can relate. I despise welfare. I'm not saying some people don't use it correctly, but some just use it to buy uneeded things. For example, I remember this kid who had gotten $2000 welfare, so what did he do with it you ask? He went out and bought a $1000 pair of shoes!! Garhh!! That makes me angry, because that's my parents well earned money. Given to these lazy people who can't work and earn a living like everyone else. You should not be buying these kinds of things unless you deserve them!! This is one reason I don't agree with Democrats, because they support higher welfare. :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know how a kid got $2k welfare, but he's dumb if he spent half of it on some sneakers. They should be rather handed food coupons and other stuff non-exchangeable for money if they're caught doing that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're still allowed to take money from the government without paying back

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not that simple. You pay less rent for your house if it was built by illegal immigrants, because the building costs were less. You pay less for some products because illegal immigrants may have produced them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they really were an economic threat, they'd arrest all millions of them and send them back to Mexico. They're not. They will do jobs some american people wont even accept. They are an economic benefit.

[Auberean]

 

 

Is the policy out of date? Yes. The aliens sneak into our country illegally, have a child, then are allowed to stay here and are given money! All of my living family (and many that are no longer living) were all born here in the US but we don't get free money from the government. I don't mind if they stay in the country, but why should we give them money!? They broke the law to get here, don't give the criminals money! Gah, makes me angry..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can relate. I despise welfare. I'm not saying some people don't use it correctly, but some just use it to buy uneeded things. For example, I remember this kid who had gotten $2000 welfare, so what did he do with it you ask? He went out and bought a $1000 pair of shoes!! Garhh!! That makes me angry, because that's my parents well earned money. Given to these lazy people who can't work and earn a living like everyone else. You should not be buying these kinds of things unless you deserve them!! This is one reason I don't agree with Democrats, because they support higher welfare. :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know how a kid got $2k welfare, but he's dumb if he spent half of it on some sneakers. They should be rather handed food coupons and other stuff non-exchangeable for money if they're caught doing that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're still allowed to take money from the government without paying back

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not that simple. You pay less rent for your house if it was built by illegal immigrants, because the building costs were less. You pay less for some products because illegal immigrants may have produced them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they really were an economic threat, they'd arrest all millions of them and send them back to Mexico. They're not. They will do jobs some american people wont even accept. They are an economic benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never really thought of it that way. I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject, so I'm open to most other people's ideas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, doesn't a system like this just perpetuate poor education? And what do you think it is saying to people who actually took the steps to obtain their citizenship?

[thedepressedsquirrel]

 

 

 

Still, doesn't a system like this just perpetuate poor education? And what do you think it is saying to people who actually took the steps to obtain their citizenship?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is saying to those people that they are very lucky because their country and financial status allowed them to come here legally.

[BlueLancer]

 

 

 

Still, doesn't a system like this just perpetuate poor education?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next to nobody wants to live a poor life on welfare, surrounded by wealthy people and millionaires in one of the richest countries of the world, being stuck on government aid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And not everybody can have a degree. Think if everybody in the US had the highest possible degree available for study. Tens, if not hundreds of millions would end up in a job that doesn't represent their education.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know, not everybody can be a doctor or a lawyer. If everybody was, who would be their clients and customers? Would they be doctors and lawyers too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some illegal immigrants will, as I said, take jobs people born in America wouldn't even think about taking like scrubbing toilets. Yet they have a chance to save up some money, maybe invest some of it, get promoted, and have a better life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd say a very small minority really wants to live their whole lives poor while seeing everybody else succeed (financially).

[LGBR]

 

 

 

 

Still, doesn't a system like this just perpetuate poor education? And what do you think it is saying to people who actually took the steps to obtain their citizenship?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is saying to those people that they are very lucky because their country and financial status allowed them to come here legally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do know that pretty much anyone can come to the US, there is just a waiting list to get in

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is everyone ignoring my previous post