End .BMP Prejudice

[Celt23]

The Windows Bitmap (.BMP) format is currently not allowed under this rule:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.3 - BBCode may be used only for images, links, or non-disturbing (excessive) text

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Use of images, flash, or text within the body of a message may be restricted as deemed necessary by Moderators for board performance issues. Always convert your images to '.gif', '.jpg', or '.png' graphic formats before posting. Never use .bmp's as their size is large and bandwidth consuming. You should also 'crop' all images before posting to reduce their physical size and prevent forum distortion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This does not make any sense. Sure, .BMP's are often larger than other images, but this does not mean that they are all large! Look at, for example, .PNG's, some of them are gigantic, and some of them only a few hundred bytes. The same applies for .BMP's, so there is no need for this part of the rule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just remove this BMP ban and impose a size limit to BMP's like the other images, which is 600KB as far as I know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suggest changing the above sentance to this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.3 - BBCode may be used only for images, links, or non-disturbing (excessive) text

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Use of images, flash, or text within the body of a message may be restricted as deemed necessary by Moderators for board performance issues. Always convert your images to '.gif', '.jpg', or '.png' graphic formats before posting. Avoid using .bmp's as their size is large and bandwidth consuming. You should also 'crop' all images before posting to reduce their physical size and prevent forum distortion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using 'Avoid' wouldn't needlessly outlaw them but at the same time educate the technically illiterate that .bmp's are not a good format to use at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is some supporting rhetoric that I posted below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1: I know from experience that the computer illiterate like using jpegs ect, because they see people using them all the time. And do you really think that the good custom-made signatures on here were made by inexperienced people using paint? Images borrowed from elsewhere are not usually bmp's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 ..? Never said anything like that. It's really simple, it's a suggestion, not a command. The problem is size, so making a size limit would fix the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, I'm not inexperienced with images. I've written them before.

[Mercifull]

Its not good netiquette to use BMP files on the net full stop. You should always convert a bmp to the relevant net safe file such as a png, gif or jpg. If a png file is gigantic its because someone should have saved it as a jpg. Always use the right filetype for the relevant image.

[Albosky]

http://www.iceteks.com/articles.php/imageformats/1

[Cruiser]

Is there any point to arguing this or are you just arguing it because the rule is there? There are plenty of other formats out there that keep the size much, much smaller and are much more commonly used. Pointing out this rule without a legit use for BMP over JPG/PNG/GIF is a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

By forbidding BMPs, you also force the less tech literate among us into using compressed formats, decreasing file size and stopping anyone from 'accidentally' posting a massive BMP.

[None2None]

Well, as I may see where you are coming from, that .bmp images can have a much higher resolution, there is no reason for this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your average pixel/inch in 72, which .png can handle, .bmp would just have more of an ability to go higher as opposed to actually needing to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOTE - 72 pixels/inch is what you generally see on your computer screen...no reason to go higher than that unless printing...which I promise when people are downloading your avatar to print it, the least of their worries would be the resolution :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree, just live with .png :)

[Celt23]

@ Reply 1: Yes, BMP's are terrible, but that's still no reason to outlaw them. There are other terrible formats like TIFF, XBM and TGA and they aren't banned, are they?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Reply 2: I already know they are often large, however that is not always so. Impose a size limit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Reply 3: Look at my reply to reply #1. And yes, PNG's are probably the best all-around image format.

[Cruiser]

@ Reply 1: Yes, BMP's are terrible, but that's still no reason to outlaw them. There are other terrible formats like TIFF, XBM and TGA and they aren't banned, are they?

 

 

 

One of the most popular paint programs around here also doesn't default to said formats. It defaults to BMP, and with the large number of computer illiterate users around here that don't know any better, banning the format stops most of the problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Reply 2: I already know they are often large, however that is not always so. Impose a size limit.

 

 

 

You are not the decider of the rules here. Telling the staff to 'Impose a size limit' gives no value to your argument. Justify your suggestion, don't just tell people what to do.

[Celt23]

 

@ Reply 1: Yes, BMP's are terrible, but that's still no reason to outlaw them. There are other terrible formats like TIFF, XBM and TGA and they aren't banned, are they?

 

 

 

One of the most popular paint programs around here also doesn't default to said formats. It defaults to BMP, and with the large number of computer illiterate users around here that don't know any better, banning the format stops most of the problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Reply 2: I already know they are often large, however that is not always so. Impose a size limit.

 

 

 

You are not the decider of the rules here. Telling the staff to 'Impose a size limit' gives no value to your argument. Justify your suggestion, don't just tell people what to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1: I know from experience that the computer illiterate like using jpegs ect, because they see people using them all the time. And do you really think that the good custom-made signatures on here were made by inexperienced people using paint? Images borrowed from elsewhere aren't usually bmp's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 ..? Never said anything like that. It's really simple, it's a suggestion, not a command. The problem is size, so making a size limit would fix the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, I'm not inexperienced with images. I've written them before.

[Cruiser]

#1: I know from experience that the computer illiterate like using jpegs ect, because they see people using them all the time.

 

 

 

Seeing the image type takes a bit of technical knowlege, which would then translate to knowing how to save different formats. Most don't know either. Your personal experience still doesn't provide a compelling reason for the rule change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 ..? Never said anything like that. It's really simple, it's a suggestion, not a command. The problem is size, so making a size limit would fix the problem.

 

 

 

You did say something like that. You said exactly that. 'Impose a size limit' is taken by most as a command or some other 'do this now'. It has no hint of suggestion about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So in conclusion, JPG seems to win the race when it comes to photos, while PNG wins for quality, GIF wins for simple images and BMP, well to not leave it out, it's part of windows and needed in some applications. And it's fun to edit them in hex editors, but other then that BMP should never be used on the web because of it's lack of optimization/compression.

 

 

 

I think that sums up how Albosky sees it too since he linked to it as his only reply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, you still havn't given any practical reason beyond your own personal opinion for changing the rule.

[Celt23]

 

#1: I know from experience that the computer illiterate like using jpegs ect, because they see people using them all the time.

 

 

 

Seeing the image type takes a bit of technical knowlege, which would then translate to knowing how to save different formats. Most don't know either. Your personal experience still doesn't provide a compelling reason for the rule change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 ..? Never said anything like that. It's really simple, it's a suggestion, not a command. The problem is size, so making a size limit would fix the problem.

 

 

 

You did say something like that. You said exactly that. 'Impose a size limit' is taken by most as a command or some other 'do this now'. It has no hint of suggestion about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So in conclusion, JPG seems to win the race when it comes to photos, while PNG wins for quality, GIF wins for simple images and BMP, well to not leave it out, it's part of windows and needed in some applications. And it's fun to edit them in hex editors, but other then that BMP should never be used on the web because of it's lack of optimization/compression.

 

 

 

I think that sums up how Albosky sees it too since he linked to it as his only reply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, you still havn't given any practical reason beyond your own personal opinion for changing the rule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1: Read the post again, I edited it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#2: Sorry it looked like a command, but I explained it now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#3: There's literally loads of image formats that don't use efficient compression or the compression is optional, do you see them banned? No.

[Mercifull]

Get over it, you lost the argument. .BMPs arnt going to be enabled.

[Celt23]

Get over it, you lost the argument. .BMPs arnt going to be enabled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:o

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I haven't. This is about a sentance in a rule that doesn't make any sense. Don't you get it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Will be offline for a while & will respond to new replies when I return.

[None2None]

You have to agree that .bmps are unreasonably large compared to other files...thats a plain fact, not opinion...

[Albosky]

@ Reply 1: Yes, BMP's are terrible, but that's still no reason to outlaw them. There are other terrible formats like TIFF, XBM and TGA and they aren't banned, are they?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes , they are .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rule specifically says Always convert your images to PNG, GIF or JPG, hence, other formats are not allowed. The reason bmps are explicitally mentioned as "do not use" is because they are the default for the most popular image software (MSPaint) and are the only ones that have ever been deemed as a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll change the rule to "You MUST convert your images to GIF, JPG, or PNG" if you like , but we won't be changing our stance on posting images that almost always carry a larger filesize anytime soon, its not fair to the users on slower connections who are forced to wait for them to load when trying to read a post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only other option would be to write a mod that disables all images in posts , or replaces them with links , if a user chose to do so in their profile. This is a possibility , but I have enough to do with the forum and site at the moment, so its not going to be anytime soon.

[Celt23]

 

@ Reply 1: Yes, BMP's are terrible, but that's still no reason to outlaw them. There are other terrible formats like TIFF, XBM and TGA and they aren't banned, are they?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes , they are .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rule specifically says Always convert your images to PNG, GIF or JPG, hence, other formats are not allowed. The reason bmps are explicitally mentioned as "do not use" is because they are the default for the most popular image software (MSPaint) and are the only ones that have ever been deemed as a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll change the rule to "You MUST convert your images to GIF, JPG, or PNG" if you like , but we won't be changing our stance on posting images that almost always carry a larger filesize anytime soon, its not fair to the users on slower connections who are forced to wait for them to load when trying to read a post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only other option would be to write a mod that disables all images in posts , or replaces them with links , if a user chose to do so in their profile. This is a possibility , but I have enough to do with the forum and site at the moment, so its not going to be anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#1: I know from experience that the computer illiterate like using jpegs ect, because they see people using them all the time. And do you really think that the good [and thus larger] custom-made signatures on here were made by inexperienced people using paint? Images borrowed from elsewhere are not usually bmp's. And you got to remember that saving an image that is already a jpeg ect, the default save will be the original image's format.

Also supporting this is changing the word 'Never' to 'Avoid' in that sentence. This educates new people who happen to make a signature/avatar early on using MSPaint who are trying to make sure that their avatar/signature is legal that bmp's aren't the way to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand that, but there is really no reason to ban them while all other image formats are allowed. I'm not suggesting you change this soon either, but this is only a one word edit.

[Cruiser]

I understand that, but there is really no reason to ban them while all other image formats are allowed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you missed the 'Yes they are.' (refering to the banning of other formats) in Albosky's reply. Try sending yourself a PM with a TIFF or TGA in it, you'll get your original BB code.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the one word change (which you should have at least marked as an edit in your original instead of changing it outright) won't do a damn thing. Telling people to 'avoid' them (if they even bothered to read the rules) still means the tech illiterate among us can still post them, which will leave huge images all over the place no matter how much you claim that one word will help. We're all better off the way it is now.

[Celt23]

 

I understand that, but there is really no reason to ban them while all other image formats are allowed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you missed the 'Yes they are.' (refering to the banning of other formats) in Albosky's reply. Try sending yourself a PM with a TIFF or TGA in it, you'll get your original BB code.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the one word change (which you should have at least marked as an edit in your original instead of changing it outright) won't do a damn thing. Telling people to 'avoid' them (if they even bothered to read the rules) still means the tech illiterate among us can still post them, which will leave huge images all over the place no matter how much you claim that one word will help. We're all better off the way it is now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang on a second, you are saying that the forums don't support BMPs in the first place? I thought you could already post bmp's but they weren't allowed. If Albosky can confirm that this is true then just forget this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it would, for the reasons I posted a few hundred times above.

[None2None]

Well... I'd personally say you'd have trouble posting the .bmp in the first place, I KNOW imageshack...idk about others...but imageshack attomatically changes the format to I think .jpg, maybe .png...but either way, you cant even post a .bmp from their site...even supporting us more...if a HUGE website like imageshack thinks they're too big, tip.it can obviously easily argue the same :)

[Albosky]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang on a second, you are saying that the forums don't support BMPs in the first place? I thought you could already post bmp's but they weren't allowed. If Albosky can confirm that this is true then just forget this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it would, for the reasons I posted a few hundred times above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

phpBB's "IMG" BBCode will only work on jpg|jpeg|gif|png , bmp's will not be embedded into the page , but posting them anyways is still frowned upon as you would have to link to the image directly , which for one, is inconvenient, and 2 , makes a lot of users nervous about clicking links.