You don't know how offensive that is. HOw is the Bible "less" ridiculous. Neither of them are. You know what is ridiculous? Your lack of religion. Do I go around personally insulting every atheist I see? Nope. I learn to live with the good ones. Maybe you should live happily with the good Muslims. You are free to hate whoever, but judge them individually by their actions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Try to look at it from an atheist's perspective though. We look around, and see all the religion, all the misinformation about fundamentalism, interpretations and the like. You're right, we live amongst and respect the good muslims, and christians, and jews and all others, but not because of their religion. We judge them by the content of their character, not by their religious beliefs. We wonder what the potential of these people would be if they weren't held back by religion, we wonder how many lives might have been saved without religion, we wonder how much better the world might be without not only fundamentalism and extremism, but without moderate religion, without the indoctrination of children before they can make up their minds, without the segregation of men and women for no other reason than an ancient scripture says so. We wonder what the world might be like if unquestionable faith wasn't taught to be a virtue, and something to be automatically respected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, forgive us when we seem irate and aggressive, forgive us when we become frustrated and angry and throw quotes and facts at you to try and curb the spread of misinformation. We mean well, we really do. Some may feel sorry for us, living without god, but please don't, because we have come to appreciate the amazement and wonder of the world as it is. The world suddenly becomes a lot more beautiful, and life so very precious when you realise that this is all we have. We live our lives for the world, not for an afterlife.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We just wish others would join us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you look at it from my point of view

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You (not specifically) are part of the misinformation

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How would they change without religion? Well, to me, religion gives me the drive to live because I know there is something in the end. And that is personal. I don't really care if you think that or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much less unity would we have without religion (applies to past too). Sometimes that can be distorted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I won't live in denial. I know there are extremists and stuff, but there are also good believers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was always taught to question my religion and I do. I follow what I think is right (most of the religion). But if yuo want to judge me as being a "non-muslim" then, I don't care. You are in no place to judge me like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know you may be refering to the veils that the women wear in Saudi and stuff. Those aren't really bad for the women. If you wanna know a true story about why they are there, just ask.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You aren't really stopping misinformation by the way. I am only typing this to try and show you my side rather than letting you live with the current thoughts that I think are ignorant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IF all you have is the world, no offense, but you do not have much. Even if my religion is "wrong". It makes getting through everyday much easier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SOrry if this is a bit jumbled.

Well then, clearly we have completely different outlooks. You need religion to help you with this life, i'm the opposite.

I know you may be refering to the veils that the women wear in Saudi and stuff. Those aren't really bad for the women. If you wanna know a true story about why they are there, just ask.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're not mandatory. Women wear it just so they won't be objectified by the men. Or am I mistaken?

I'm sure it's very comforting to believe a fat man in a red suit comes down your chimney and leaves presents once a year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure it's very comforting to believe that there is an invisible gremlin that follows you around, protecting you from getting mugged - that would certainly make getting through every day much easier for people who live in big cities with high crime rates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't mean either thing is true though.

I'm sure it's very comforting to believe a fat man in a red suit comes down your chimney and leaves presents once a year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure it's very comforting to believe that there is an invisible gremlin that follows you around, protecting you from getting mugged - that would certainly make getting through every day much easier for people who live in big cities with high crime rates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't mean either thing is true though.

 

 

 

I will NEVER admit my religion to be true. I believe in it. Therefore, it's good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grim, you are correct. Back in the day (way back when before Islam), men were (some still are) savages. IT's just tradition now.

They're not mandatory. Women wear it just so they won't be objectified by the men. Or am I mistaken?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uhh yes. They HAVE to wear it. Even female tourists are forced to wear them in Saudi and some other Islamic countries IIRC

I will NEVER admit my religion to be true. I believe in it. Therefore, it's good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't think your religion is true... ...but you believe it is true?

 

They're not mandatory. Women wear it just so they won't be objectified by the men. Or am I mistaken?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uhh yes. They HAVE to wear it. Even female tourists are forced to wear them in Saudi and some other Islamic countries IIRC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grim, you are correct. Back in the day (way back when before Islam), men were (some still are) savages. IT's just tradition now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guess I'm not mistaken after all. Islamic countries are more liberal when it comes to women's rights compared to years ago.

Guess I'm not mistaken after all. Islamic countries are more liberal when it comes to women's rights compared to years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But still very restrictive compared to the western world.

Saudi Arabia's punishments for murder include the collection of blood money:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are set damages according to the various circumstances: The payment can be anywhere from SR 120,000 to SR 300,000 ($45,000 to $80,000). If a woman is killed, the payment is one half that of a man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Liberal to women? Still pretty far from it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Non-Muslims may not testify in criminal court. Women may not testify unless it is a personal matter that did not occur in the sight of men.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Women are much more emotional than men and will, as a result of their emotions, distort their testimony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Women do not participate in public life, so they will not be capable of understanding what they observe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Women are dominated completely by men, who by the grace of God are deemed superior; therefore, women will give testimony according to what the last man told them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Women are forgetful, and their testimony cannot be considered reliable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Women cannot be admitted to a hospital, examined by a doctor, travel abroad or leave the house without the express permission and/or company of an immediate male relative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To call that an 'improvement' is (and I'm invoking Godwin's law here, since it's about time someone did) like saying Hitler sparing one Jew is an improvement.

 

 

 

Guess I'm not mistaken after all. Islamic countries are more liberal when it comes to women's rights compared to years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you Muslim? I swear you're so anti-West and so pro-Middle East that you have such a selective memory. The last time I LINKED something, you called BIAS. Now you're talking to a Muslim and he says "no it's not forced" and you don't think there's any bias in that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... How the hell did you become a mod?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, read for yourself:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.socialistworld.net/eng/2006/ ... istan.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Iran, Saudi Arabia and some other countries, state laws force women to wear a specific dress. It is not a choice but a compulsion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit:fixed link

 

Guess I'm not mistaken after all. Islamic countries are more liberal when it comes to women's rights compared to years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But still very restrictive compared to the western world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never compared the two, however. I just said that their laws toward women has changed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And shadowfax, my mod status has nothing to do with my views.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not a muslim. More atheistic than anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And my mod status has nothing to do with my views.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: You should know better then than to make that kind of comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Assassin

I just said that their laws toward women has changed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Negligibly. Womens rights are still spat upon - so much so that any change doesn't warrant mentioning.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course, you ignore the part where I proved you wrong

 

I will NEVER admit my religion to be true. I believe in it. Therefore, it's good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't think your religion is true... ...but you believe it is true?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion has a strangle hold on his common sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you don't believe in your religion. You agree with SOME parts of it. I dont get why people say they are christian or mulsim but say "oh those extremists put a bad name to our religion". You ones talking bad about the extremists of the same religion are people who only believe parts of that religion. So why do you get mad at other people when they talk bad about your religion when people actually follow it? For example, not all christians hate homosexuals. In the many sects of christianity most have strict rules against it. Therefore you are not following the religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point im trying to make is why do you share beliefs with someone who follows it by the book and then get mad when they do what the holy text says?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i dont have a religion is that i can do good on my own and i dont need guidelines on how to make my life and other peoples lives better. Most people say the message is important. You dont need religion to get a message across. You dont have to force ALL of your beliefs down other peoples throats! Spread love and acceptance. Not some filth "written by the hand of god" thousands of years ago.

 

I will NEVER admit my religion to be true. I believe in it. Therefore, it's good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't think your religion is true... ...but you believe it is true?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kind of. I know how to distinguish between belief and fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding the women's veil, women were/are compelled to wear it only to protect them from the brutal men. I don't know why it is still law. I assume it has been tradition. I can explain it like this. Your body is your own jewel. You protect it from dangerous outsiders by covering it. You don't flash it around the thieves. Obviously this doesn't exactly apply as much as it used to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Women have many more rights here than in the middle easy. In my opinion, they sort of need to get with the times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will NEVER admit my religion to be true. I believe in it. Therefore, it's good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't think your religion is true... ...but you believe it is true?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion has a strangle hold on his common sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you don't believe in your religion. You agree with SOME parts of it. I dont get why people say they are christian or mulsim but say "oh those extremists put a bad name to our religion". You ones talking bad about the extremists of the same religion are people who only believe parts of that religion. So why do you get mad at other people when they talk bad about your religion when people actually follow it? For example, not all christians hate homosexuals. In the many sects of christianity most have strict rules against it. Therefore you are not following the religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point im trying to make is why do you share beliefs with someone who follows it by the book and then get mad when they do what the holy text says?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i dont have a religion is that i can do good on my own and i dont need guidelines on how to make my life and other peoples lives better. Most people say the message is important. You dont need religion to get a message across. You dont have to force ALL of your beliefs down other peoples throats! Spread love and acceptance. Not some filth "written by the hand of god" thousands of years ago.

 

 

 

Yeah I do believe in MOST of it. And they, not me, are the ones following the select passages rather than the whole book. I am angry at them for doing what I think is wrong, not what the book says is wrong. I do not mind people expressing their anger at others. It's not my place. However, when I am in the category and have done nothing wrong, that is when I step in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is your choice not to have a religion. IT doesn't concern me (blatant ignorance of others' does though). Religion is not just to get a message. If you interpret the message the way I do, you get love and acceptance. You get things that you would most likely agree with.

the middle easy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironic typo there.

 

the middle easy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironic typo there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

middle hard* sorry

 

You don't know how offensive that is. HOw is the Bible "less" ridiculous. Neither of them are. You know what is ridiculous? Your lack of religion. Do I go around personally insulting every atheist I see? Nope. I learn to live with the good ones. Maybe you should live happily with the good Muslims. You are free to hate whoever, but judge them individually by their actions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Try to look at it from an atheist's perspective though. We look around, and see all the religion, all the misinformation about fundamentalism, interpretations and the like. You're right, we live amongst and respect the good muslims, and christians, and jews and all others, but not because of their religion. We judge them by the content of their character, not by their religious beliefs. We wonder what the potential of these people would be if they weren't held back by religion, we wonder how many lives might have been saved without religion, we wonder how much better the world might be without not only fundamentalism and extremism, but without moderate religion, without the indoctrination of children before they can make up their minds, without the segregation of men and women for no other reason than an ancient scripture says so. We wonder what the world might be like if unquestionable faith wasn't taught to be a virtue, and something to be automatically respected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, forgive us when we seem irate and aggressive, forgive us when we become frustrated and angry and throw quotes and facts at you to try and curb the spread of misinformation. We mean well, we really do. Some may feel sorry for us, living without god, but please don't, because we have come to appreciate the amazement and wonder of the world as it is. The world suddenly becomes a lot more beautiful, and life so very precious when you realise that this is all we have. We live our lives for the world, not for an afterlife.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We just wish others would join us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You got that right. =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I often wonder how fundamentalists ever see past thier own nose and book to see just how incredible the word we live in is. It and the universe have been shaped for eons, epochs, rediculous amounts of time over a universe a rediculous distance across. Incredible. After all of this, call it chance, call it god (don't just say NO!!!! The book sais it can't be!!) we then formed self replicating macromolecules in stunning arrangements that then formed cells which proliferated and changed with the eons of time to form the incredible variety, colour and vibrance you see before you today. Each of these with common structures, common genes, common bones, common cells (well, unless you want to get into the technicalities of prokaryotic and eukaryotic life forms) and common goals; to breed and spread the mass of self replicating matter. Incredible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did all that come from. :oops: :lol: