Capt_Davy

If you apply that "potting every 5-8 minutes" to normal range potions then you are doing exactly what I stated already. Every minute equals 1 boosted level. So say if you pot every let's say 7 minutes, you pot after your stats have dropped 7 levels, which makes your range 105/99. This is exactly what I've been saying the whole time, so I don't know where you keep going with this. And if you want me to apply this to extremes, I'm just saying that potting every 17 minutes will make extremes cheaper than if you pot every 5-8 minutes. This can also be seen in my original post. L Kirby, what he means is, whether it is extremes or supers, most people repot after, say, 5 minutes. There, the picture isn't quite so clear: does the higher boost of extremes more than make up for the extra cost of repotting every 5 minutes compared to repotting every 5 minutes with supers? That'd be interesting to figure out. Myself, I repot less often with extremes, but I usually wait for x-level as that's harder to mess up (for melee, I wait until I'm down to 110).

Yes, I believe it has +8 prayer instead of a regular trimmed skillcape's +4 prayer bonus. Other than that....no difference.

I'd have to agree with squisher, it fits the pattern; notice how the highest-levelled boss on each set of floors always drop weapons? I'd bet that the strongest boss would drop the strongest weapon (2h). I wonder who the final boss will be, and if it's Bilrach...well...it would be interesting to see how strong he is, and how we would kill him (remember "killing" Lucien in Temple of Ikov?).

Hood. Leatherbodies and Platebodies are fantastic, but they can't offer you the level of protection the hood can. the plate/body debate is realy for 100 dung, also im asuming by the time i have 3 perm binds, sag body will already be out you can compare prom pltae vs tyrano body now but honestly, saggitare body is over 20% better than tyrano, primal plate is only 5-10% better than prom plate so if you think tyrano and prom are about even, id say sag will surpass primal Thanks zaaps! So it seems like I'll be keeping my good ol' trusty....fourth :oops: ...shadow silk hood. and squisher, yeah I guess that's true, looking at it from that perspective. But an important thing to keep in mind is that sagittarian body and primal platebody will only come out with warped floors, which will hopefully change things up a bit. By then, anyone with the dungeoneering level to access warped floors (lvl 95+) should be seriously thinking about that third bind slot. As you pointed out, sagittarian body does offer a bigger jump up from tyrannoleather body compared to primal platebody vs promethium platebody, but we'll have to see which is best for warped floors as well as occult (if any 95+ dungeoneer would even do many 5:5 occults by then...).

hm, considering how good stego body was, I wonder which would a better bind (for second bind slot, assuming I never get 100 dung for third bind slot), tyrannoleather body or shadow silk hood?

yeah. I think the increased greatly increased dps from using berserker/tactician rings with prom 2h would save more food and time than a purely defensive setup like that. I guess I'll keep this setup then, it works quite well (certainly better than primal maul :mrgreen: )

Hey Rangeor, yup you guessed right :) i was the guy who was right behind you in the dung smith cc last night. I'd completely forgotten I'd seen you on Tip.it too :o Actually, for me (91 str, 95 attack, 96 range), ranging seems much easier than melee against high level warriors (like Primal and Prom). Much easier in what way? If you mean being far away, letting your team get the hit while your dps is much worse than that of anyone else then surely, teaming isn't for you. Range is just very inefficient in dungeoneering as the monsters weak to it(mages) are quite weak to melee as well, primal warrior are weak to neither melee or range. If you bind a bow instead of hood you will likely be slaughtered by everything, also, it's unbelievebly easy to fletch yourself a good bow in a dungeon, much easier than say, get yourself a hood every dungeon. I agree, ranged does suck at dungeoneering, but I find that nothing really matches it when it comes to taking out mages, but never mind that (I'd have to give up shadow silk hood to bind a bow...).So far, I've taken that approach of fletching bows to range as needed. But as I know little to nothing about the Occult floors, I was wondering if ranged had become any more useful. And yes, from that standpoint, where melee and mage combo basically rules, it would be better to bind a celestial cataclysmic staff, except I find that when it is really helpful to mage (mostly on high levelled primal warriors), the enemy dies so quick that I don't know if it would be worth giving up that bind slot to speed up something already quick and easy. In dungeoneering, I usually do mediums and larges with friends, so I take on the role of keyer, tool carrier, and I also do my fair share of fighting as I am a high level. So just to double-check, prom 2h + shadow silk hood is still the best bind combo for me?

With the release of the new Occult floors in Daemonheim, I was wondering if this shifted the rankings in the "best defensive item to bind" category. Is shadow silk hood still the best, or is Promethium Platebody finally better? or something entirely different? I'm interested in everyone's opinions on this matter. :) and on to a more personally-related subject: with a promethium 2h bound, and with my current stats, would I be best off with that defensive bind, or should I look for a sagittarian longbow (I'll have 99 ranged quite soon) or some other weapon?

Only if you have that much in junk. Another potential method is trading it for risings (atm that's likely herbs/2nds). I also have one, but I won't be trading it, as I was able to get 200m in herb supps upon the bonus xp weekend announcement. dang :mellow: and I don't quite see how the herb thing works out, without junk I mean. Eh, looks like its time to get fletching maple longs (u)...unless there's a faster method of making junk? If you're really crazy... Long term friend = 240k/15min limit. Fury kit = 150m street I think. 150m/240k = 625 trades needed. 4 trades/hour. 625/4 = 156 and 1/4 hours needed to trade it... wow :cry: that is just crazy....looks like making junk is my only practical option. EDIT: never mind...I would have to fletch nearly 2.7m maple longbows (u), after buying the logs. WAYYYY too many. Money making is faster than junk making. 8) yeah haha that's always been my problem when it comes to items like this :wall:

Only if you have that much in junk. Another potential method is trading it for risings (atm that's likely herbs/2nds). I also have one, but I won't be trading it, as I was able to get 200m in herb supps upon the bonus xp weekend announcement. dang :mellow: and I don't quite see how the herb thing works out, without junk I mean. Eh, looks like its time to get fletching maple longs (u)...unless there's a faster method of making junk? If you're really crazy... Long term friend = 240k/15min limit. Fury kit = 150m street I think. 150m/240k = 625 trades needed. 4 trades/hour. 625/4 = 156 and 1/4 hours needed to trade it... wow :cry: that is just crazy....looks like making junk is my only practical option. EDIT: never mind...I would have to fletch nearly 2.7m maple longbows (u), after buying the logs. WAYYYY too many.

I've just managed to get a fury (or) kit. Lovely, some progress towards buying an elysian, but I would rather be able to exchange it for its street value in pure cash (it buys me 95 prayer! :D). Is it possible to exchange it for pure cash without junk, even if it takes multiple trades?

A friend just got an elite clue, finished it. Nothing special really, except the orb scan clue which lead to the southwest area of the yaks on Nietiznot.

For TDs, maul has the advantage of being very accurate and high-hitting. However, CLS does the job very well too, and rapier can pretty much equal CLS at TDs with your stats and boosts. However, I think maul is better than CLS/CR at TDs, because it can hit up to low 700s, and has a more-often-than-not chance of hitting above 310 to switch the demon's prayer, compared to CLS/CR which has a fairly decent chance at hitting above 310, but even if it doesn't, best case scenario with CLS/CR would be a 300-max hit (er...500?) which really isn't much better than the maul, and would be slower than one maul hit. so, for TDs, get maul. For Graardor and Zilyana, you'll be raping them both with maul, but just keep in mind that maul really isn't the best chaotic weapon at other bosses, although it is amazing for pking if you use it right, and you keep an eye out for Vengeance spells. It's great at pking for that reason, but because it hits so high, you really do have to be careful for veng self-ko's with it. I hear that granite maul -> 2 maul specs -> chaotic maul is absolutely killer though. Of course, if that seems a bit boring, you could always use CR for fast combos, but I believe that if the maul is properly used, it's much better than CR/CLS at pking.

I've been dungoneering for a while, I've been looking at some threads as well on the forums here. I just wanted to ask, why does everyone bind promethium 2h over promethium rapier? Virtually all monsters are weak to stab/slash, including the bosses, and the forgotten warriors can be easily maged. To me, rapier would seem better, but is there something I'm missing out on? Also, for someone who does small/medium dungeons solo and with a small team (sometimes large, but not that often), and considering my stats, would it be better to bind promethium rapier or 2h? And which would be better, binding promethium platebody or shadow silk hood? (I've never tried promethium platebody, but I currently have shadow silk hood bound, and its very useful in avoiding monsters attacks, and in solo, its basically anti-pile, which I find reduces damage taken per room). note: I hear the battleaxe is a viable option too, but how does it stand up to 2h or rapier? Any help would be greatly appreciated! :-D

well then, take a look, this actually contradicts what you've "heard" (pretty detailed too, as far as the bosshunting list goes)

Seeing as you are maxed melee, have turmoil and overloads, I'd say get rapier, as its accuracy (with your levels and boosts) really isn't much lower at all than longsword, and is a nice 20% faster. So what that means, bosshunting, is that rapier > cls for sure (for you) at DKs, and is arguably better at TDs (unless you have steel titan, then its clearly better). When it ocmes to Sara GWD, you're actually best off not using a chaotic weapon (unless its chaotic maul, but that's not what you're asking for). Rapier is also better at slayer, due to higher DPS, and monsters general low def. (I say use whip on low-income tasks, and for more profitable tasks, use CLS to speed them up; CLS is fairly cheap at a 100k gp/hr of actual combat). Back to bosses, since you mentioned bandos GWD, CLS is better there, but honestly, if you're soloing it without any CLS crashers, you're not going to notice a huge difference between the two weapons (if you're teaming, i would think that would make you crash-proof so no worries there). For C wars, I suppose someone else should answer, I really don't know just how accurate it is on players in high-def gear. But seeing as its such a good weapon for other uses, and you're doing C wars casually, I'm still sticking with my view that you should get rapier.

China. On the contrary the world would be a terrible place. As soon as you were too old to be efficient a younger more efficient person would take your place and you my friend would be euthanized. Or to heck with you getting too old, you could just get a terminal disease, the result would be the same. And because none of my post was on topic you have my apologies. I was bored while eating breakfast and like to browse this thread and laugh at all the people still arguing that the CLS is better than the CR. The ONLY reason to buy a CLS is if you are basing your purchase 100% on looks, if you care even 1% about efficiency (which in my experience every rs player does, they just hate admitting that they're way of doing things is inefficient because they're also too full of pride to ever admit they're wrong.) then you should get a CR. Screw the rules I have money. Judging by your stats, long is better for you. Nice hopes and dreams. errhm...what hopes and dreams? JacTise69's hopes and dreams of everyone getting a CR, while he goes and gets CLS? I'm not sure....

That is really interesting, but probably quite predictable. If the cls wins 63% of the time(as in this example) the difference in efficiency could be smaller than 5%, but i can't really bother to calculate it. If you aren't constantly up against a cls rapier is still preferable as the small difference at bandos is more than made up at other spots, and the fact that you should get around 80% of the minion kills. I don't understand, with cls making 63% of the kills, and rapier making 37% of the kills at bandos, that means the cls is considerably more than 5% efficient than rapier there. If the two were equally efficient there, rapier would be getting 50% of the kills. Seeing as (in this example) for every 1% more efficient than rapier cls is (at bandos) rapier "loses" 1% efficiency, calculating cls's efficiency relative to rapier would work like this: (63%-50%)/50%) = 0.26 = long is 26% more efficient than rapier against Graardor. Of course, it would be nice to repeat this a few more times to get a better sample size. Also, average kills/hr and kills/trip for solo bandos would be helpful to get a better picture of rapier vs cls at bandos. #-o All i can say is, if you are 26% more efficient, for example getting 126k attack experience against 100k attack experience an hour, you would get more than 95% of the kills... Well I just realized I did the math wrong. Well then, disregard my numbers...But with a difference of 26% in numbers (long taking 1.7 times the kills of rapier) I don't see how the differences in their efficiencies is around only 5%.. EDIT: looking at it from a different angle, if cls is getting 2 kills every time rapier gets one kill, one could say that cls is twice as efficient as rapier then (+100% more efficient). So using the numbers from this test, (63%/37%)-1 = 70.3%. So cls is 70.3% more efficient then rapier in this example. I would think this is an outlier....unless I've done the math wrong again. :oops: Just wanted to say, I'm still favoring the rapier, but im a little surprised at by how much rapier lost to CLS in this example at Bandos GWD.

That is really interesting, but probably quite predictable. If the cls wins 63% of the time(as in this example) the difference in efficiency could be smaller than 5%, but i can't really bother to calculate it. If you aren't constantly up against a cls rapier is still preferable as the small difference at bandos is more than made up at other spots, and the fact that you should get around 80% of the minion kills. I don't understand, with cls making 63% of the kills, and rapier making 37% of the kills at bandos, that means the cls is considerably more than 5% efficient than rapier there. If the two were equally efficient there, rapier would be getting 50% of the kills. So isnt cls a good bit more than 5% efficient than rapier at bandos? Of course, it would be nice to repeat this a few more times to get a better sample size. Also, average kills/hr and kills/trip for solo bandos would be helpful to get a better picture of rapier vs cls at bandos. EDIT: just realized, I 've done the math wrong, so disregard my calculations (removed them for that reason)

But that would be just seriously pulling some major crap on players.....Bet we'll be hearing from jagex about "working on a refund option" if they do that. :wall:

With turmoil and overloads, that will make rapier almost as accurate as longsword, considering your attack level. Of course, as you raise it up, rapier will overtake longsword, so no point in investing in a weapon (longsword) that will be soon outstripped. If you didn't have extremes or turmoil, that'd be a different story though. And seeing as you're 99 ranged, and you mostly do armadyl GWD, I'd say...well...to be perfectly honest, the shield wil only slightly reduce damage when kree'ara maxes with his mage attack (mage maxes at 210, shield's effect doesn't come into effect unless its above 200) so, for armadyl GWD, I'd consider it a huge waste of tokens. In fact, I think spectral spirit shield should fare just as well, but none of your other weapons will be able to match Chaotic Rapier. long story short: get rapier, due to your usage of overloads and turmoil. And don't bother with the crossbow, its a huge waste and as for the shield, the effect will rarely come into play, so for bonuses only, it can be pretty much replaced with spectral (at armadyl GWD).

chaotic rapier. its pretty much equally accurate, and hits virtually the same, and its just faster. Of course, once you get extremes and 95 prayer, chaotic rapier will actually be worse than rapier at just about everything except sara gwd, and even then, team verac'ing is much better. For now, get rapier, as its pretty much almost as good as long, and once you hit your prayer/herby goals, it will clearly outshine long. Chaotic longsword will be worse than chaotic rapier? Just trying to verify, as I am starting to hunker down in dungeoneering. I don't want to get owned by a typo. :thumbup: oops sorry, it's a typo....should read "chaotic longsword will actually be worse than rapier"

chaotic rapier. its pretty much equally accurate, and hits virtually the same, and its just faster. Of course, once you get extremes and 95 prayer, chaotic rapier will actually be worse than rapier at just about everything except sara gwd, and even then, team verac'ing is much better. For now, get rapier, as its pretty much almost as good as long, and once you hit your prayer/herby goals, it will clearly outshine long. EDIT: just wanted to clear up something. From what I've heard, CLS > CR for sure at Sara GWD, but even then, you'll be much better off duoing or trioing in a team of verac'ers. In fact, even in a team, veracs > CLS. So it wouldn't be very smart to spend 200k dung tokens on CLS just for sara gwd imo.

Yup. Yak's also so you can bring an inventory full of extreme prayer pots and overloads, and yak carrying food. But back to on topic, yeah I'm seeing that at 95+, maybe 90+, attack, rapier > long for sure at just about everything, except miths if you don't have super antfires. but you should get it anyways because its such a pro weapon :shades:

obviously. and without a steel titan, it goes back to stats/pots/prayers, which we covered. I'm not entirely sure, but isn't rapier better than long at mithril dragons as well? That's the only cloud of uncertaincy I have really. Huh? Does damage from familiars lower opponents prayer with smite? We were discussing Tormented Demons. I'd still like to hear how CR vs CLS fares against mithril dragons, without overloads/yak pack/steel titan (with super antifires though, I'd certainly have it by then, and I imagine many others would by the time they get a chaotic weapon). I got to 40 secs/mith with rapier on task (really really small sample size tho, 4 miths task, hoping for a bigger task soon), would like to see cls beat that :P Anyway do you guys think it's worth it to get both maul and rapier now if you don't like dungeoneerning that much or would you suggest waiting for batch 2 and saving the tokens till then? I remember watching someone pwn mithril dragons with 4 dead in just a bit under 2 minutes. I'm not sure if it was with CLS or CR, but I think it might have been rapier... And I say, go get rapier + maul to get the best out of both worlds, unless you'd rather save your tokens for batch 2, when the ranger's version of piety will come out. What the other rewards are with batch 2, I have no idea. EDIT: actually, I'm hoping they'll update chaotic crossbow so its actually useful. Perhaps a chaotic spear, or would that nerf the Corp too much? Updates to chaotic staff would be nice too though, but its not quite as necessary imo, with staff of light out there already.