Capt_Davy

I believe so. Wouldn't hurt if someone with a chaotic weapon could back me up on this though. False. Using maul gives you the time to decide (after the titan spec) whether you need to switch to crossbow or stay on melee. True. But we were talking about CR vs CLS, and to be honest, I think the slight disadvantage of rapier compared to maul at TDs is still fine; rapier still does a great job at TDs, and is much more versatile than the maul. Not to sound like a noob but....rapier + rune defender > maul, big time, against mithril dragons right?

obviously. and without a steel titan, it goes back to stats/pots/prayers, which we covered. I'm not entirely sure, but isn't rapier better than long at mithril dragons as well? That's the only cloud of uncertaincy I have really. Huh? Does damage from familiars lower opponents prayer with smite? We were discussing Tormented Demons. I'd still like to hear how CR vs CLS fares against mithril dragons, without overloads/yak pack/steel titan (with super antifires though, I'd certainly have it by then, and I imagine many others would by the time they get a chaotic weapon).

This. 100% on spot. Tbh, im kind of surprised that like, half of the worlds have someone with a chaotic weapon fighting Graardor already....Well that's progress, bandos gwd is now harder than ever to find an open world to kill.

From what you're saying, looks like either full statius armor and dfs is needed, or barrows tank gear and divine is needed. Either way, that doesn't sound too bad. But soloing her with the barrows/divine setup, isn't it still worse moneymaking than soloing graardor? (Just asking, I mean graardor's packed as hell but zilyana...you son't see her packed with solo'ers) EDIT: never mind, i just realized, with only one hand free, I guess whip would fail, so cls is kind of required...and cls isn't exactly commonplace yet.

Actually, you can, and its not that hard. Only thing is, you NEED full statius, minus the warhammer, in order to tank zilyana's melee like a pro. link to vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjFSK9yWUQ of course, it could definitely be improved with divine + cls. EDIT: I completely forgot, some people do team her with zamorak godsword, and it works fairly well actually. And i could only see this method being enhanced with cls + rune defender for non-spec hits, for faster and cheaper kills. Even so, that one, single spot where it really shine doesn't justify the 200k token cost, compared to chaotic rapier.

obviously. and without a steel titan, it goes back to stats/pots/prayers, which we covered. I'm not entirely sure, but isn't rapier better than long at mithril dragons as well? That's the only cloud of uncertaincy I have really.

yupppp :) gotta say though, CLS isn't as bad as it's made out to be. It's just a little worse when you're already so accurate with 95-99 attack + extremes + turmoil. To be honest, at 95 attack, 99 str, and with extremes and piety, I have a feeling it would be pretty close between the two, only for rapier to start consistently winning at better stats/pots/prayers. Just saying, CLS is awesome, but rapier is just a little bit better. And you don't want to waste anything when it's 2m exp's worth of tokens, no siree :shame:

But that would mean that rapier is better, because (assuming you don't have steel titan, which is reasonable, most people, even at maxed melee, do not have steel titans). It would be better because, looking at rapier's speed, average hit, and accuracy, it would out-hit rune crossbow at tormented demons too, so 2 hits with rapier, then switch for one hit with rune crossbow would be better than 1 hit with long, then switch for 2 hits with rune crossbow.

If you even manage to hit with granite mace lol, that thing misses a rediculous amount. Lateswitching with granite maul and chaotic maul is pro. Same for handcannon + maul. Gotta say though, rapier's good for many, quick combos, because it won't slow down your next hit. Tricky thing is, if you're fighting someone who's a bit more skilled at combo'ing than you....rapier fails horribly then. Then again, you'd probably die anyways in that situation, meh.

Seeing as you have maxed melee stats, chaotic rapier is the best choice for you. If you can switch your weapons quickly at tormented demons, then rapier shines (after all, it only maxes at about 50 lower than the longsword, which comes out to be around 25 lower hit per average hit, which is hardly anything, and its quite speedy). And although i've never been to DKs, from what i've seen and heard, DK's have quite low melee defence, and with maxed melee stats and good potions etc, you can rip them apart. So I would think rapier's speed would make it the best there too. and to answer your other question, it takes (dont quote me on this, im not sure) I think 200k tokens and 100k gp to recharge completely? But otherwise, you can opt out for other varying amounts, down to 2m flat in gp for a complete recharge. Seeing as money's not much of an issue if you're going bosshunting with rapier, it would probably be easier, and more efficient, for you to just pay the pure gp cost for recharging.

beautiful. when people do research on efficiency, they generally spend like an hour to save 20 minutes for themselves. but most RS gamers are too selfish to realize that this also saves 20 minutes for everybody else that is into efficiency. the researcher effectively spent 40 minutes of his time for the greater good. then he goes on forums and posts his research and he gets crap from idiots who talk about "playing for fun" and "aesthetics" or what not. with absolutely no regard that the researcher was just trying to help. caring about how a CLS looks is just shallow and selfish. If the world researched more about efficiency, it would be a kinder more charitable place. Don't forget that utility - the ultimate point of increasing efficiency - is completely up to personal preference. :grin: Don't get me wrong - I agree with you. But we can't speak for everyone OT: In the long run (scale of 2-3 years), CLS may be better than the maul because of the dragon defender, and potentially better shields. All shields have less stab defense than slash. :) And your point is.....? He's talking about new shields released that have abilities that would make them worthwhile to use along with a cls, compared just to a maul. His point is that even then, chaotic rapier would stand out over chaotic longsword, despite that chaotic longsword might outshine chaotic maul. He's got a point though, but i would think with new, better gear, it would come with better bonuses, making the high accuracy bonuses of chaotic long even more useful. Of course, against PvM...that's a different story. And good moneymaking bosses do change over time (switch to new bosses). But with so much guesswork about the future, it's really not the best idea to base your purchase on what the future might be, and focus on the present.

Thank you very much for the input, it's good to have an experienced player who knows what he's talking about give some feedback. Looks like it's time to get working towards that CLS :cool: So I guess the majority of people on this thread are still opting for CR?

After reading all this and watching quite a few videos, I agree, for general-purpose use and most bosshunting, and pvp, chaotic rapier is just flat out the best. But....Just about every comparison was with maxed melee and overloads and turmoil. So, since like everyone else here, i'm deciding which is best for me, and unfortunately, I don't have maxed melee (my stats are still quite high, I'll have 99 str, 93 or 94 attack, 90 or 91 def) and I certainly won't have overloads (No, and I seriously doubt I'll get extremes. Perhaps super antifires but that's to be seen). I also am going to stick with piety for a very long time so...With all of these factors in question, to me, that changes the picture a bit. So at 93 attack, 99 str, super sets, and piety, which would be better for miths, kbd, TDs, and barrows? (note, I can switch decently, but no, I can't switch weapons and prayers lightning-fast at TDs. And i don't do any pking at ALL).

Oh yes thank you, you've helped quite a lot =D> I think I may make this pit room as a sort of "guardian room" right before my steel dragon (4 top-tier traps with an iron dragon, then vine trap right in front of steel ftw) :twisted: From my experience, dungeon-hallway monsters all tend to respawn at the same rate, but for the treasure guardians, the higher end ones tend to respawn a bit slower than the lower-leveled ones. I suspect the monsters in the pit will be the same.

As an avid builder, I'm interested in the new POH room, the dungeon pit. However, after examining the cost of it (7.5m for the iron dragon, 850k a superior trap), I'm beginning to wonder if this is any different than a treasure room, as I already have one with a steel dragon inside. Is it true that I can install multiple superior traps in the pit room? Do they hit players repeatedly? How much damage do they do? Can someone just stroll into the pit room, and just walk right out, or is it a bit more complicated? Is there anything special about the pit iron dragon? I'd like these questions answered, and any additional info is always welcome, as I'd like to know what I'm getting into before I fork over the 10m and something (plus the 5m to lvl up con a few levels >.>).

Just now, got a new best of 52 avantoes in one trip :thumbsup: screenie to prove, and by the way, the extra seed you see is actually a free seed back from Scroll of Life :) by the way, the grimy herbs are the avantoes I've just farmed, and haven't had a chance to clean and note with leprechaun yet. 16 grimy + 36 clean noted = 52 total FTW!!

Thank you, Kaphias! I've just tweaked it a bit, and it works for my spreadsheet! :thumbsup: Aaaahhhh....time to redo it another 5 times :) If anyone's interested, I'll share it as soon as I finish it. (it basically just has the top 5 herbs to plant for profit, and torstol, assuming Scroll of Life) EDIT: here's the link, if anyone's interested (to be honest, I'd be surprised, seeing at how effective Troacctid's sheet is) https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ahzpz1w3bcYcdDJVemZVRTBvelhGZ0lUZTdjWDhiQ1E&hl=en

So far my spreadsheet for farming is coming along great, however, I'm having the issue that googledocs likes to return things back with letters (ie. lantadyme seed, comes back as 32.1k, rather than 32100), which makes them unusable in calculations. How can I make it so googledocs understands "k" to mean "1000"? EDIT: my problem is the same as Ickdeep's.

My record was 22 lantadymes from a single patch (Catherby patch). I've hit 20+ herbs from a single patch (I usually farm lantadyme or avantoes) quite a few times before, but it's still quite uncommon for me. My record for a full run is 49 herbs, which I've done with lantadynes (same trip as when I farmed 22 in one patch!) and I've also done it with avantoes. So I suspect that the maximum amount of herbs per patch is probably the same for all seeds. EDIT: I used all 5 patches, and supercompost and magic secateurs. I've never hit past low-mid 40s with only 4 patches...so, seeing yoqhurt's 49 in 4 patches, it's probably possible to get 50+ in 5 patches, but I guess that would be quite a bit rarer...

This happened 2 days ago when me and my friend were killing the giant mole... (Waiting in center for respawn) Noob: What are you guys doing? Me: Killing the mole... Noob: Oh. Is he dead? Me: No. He's in Varrock atm, and we're waiting for him to come back from his second lair there. Noob: K, thx. (noob runs out to varrock, never to be seen by me again) I couldn't believe he believed my sarcasm/lies....I just lol'd irl at his reaction. XD

I would say extremes, but if you're going for 95 for turmoil (mind you, you'd also have soul split by then), I guess you could go either way. But if you're only going for soul split, I would take extremes over that. But that's just me. I would also ask someone who actually has those stats and uses either one, since they would have firsthand experience.

Just beat nomad now! After 13 failed tries and 3m down the drain, Nomad finally fell to the ground. It was honestly luck, as with the same gear or better setups, I have managed to red-bar him 4 or 5 times so far, but ended up being ko'd myself :/ It was definitely by FAR the hardest fight I've ever done, partially because it seems like luck plays almost too large a role in this fight.... For anyone that needs help killing Nomad, no matter how late it is, if you run in a line, directly south, there's always a hole in the ring of mines around you, so you can safely evade the mines, and dodge behind the pillar to avoid taking any damage from his 75-hit attack. Also, the clones can be dodged by the same way: hide behind the pillar and wait for around 30 seconds (after that, the clones tele out, and nomad rushes to you. get in his melee range IMMEDIATELY, or you'll be forced to restart the fight). I also found it helpful to NOT risk attacking Nomad when he does his max hp-1 attack, as I have died four times so far thanks to ruby (e) bolts spec activating the same time as Nomad's killer attack hits me. -.- Also, when he gets to low hitpoints, turn on protect from melee before he goes into zerker mode, because once he does that, he can hit up to 30s very very rapidly (im talking about speed of throwing knives or faster) NOTE: 160+ melee def seems to help a lot in stopping his zerker mode attacks, because in full d hide + zammy book, he essentially never missed a single zerker mode attack, but with d sq shield + d hide, he missed a good fair bit.

hmm..thanks, after what you posted, I really took a deep look at the money that would be lost if i upgraded after doing a house makeover, and....its over 15m :wall: not within my price range, that's for sure. So thanks, I guess I'll wait until 90 con before doing an extensive house makeover :) Thanks guys!

Title sums it up, although I do have 76 con (will be getting 80 shortly). My dilemma is whether or not to upgrade certain furniture and the dungeon, or to continue to 85-90 con later (this means upgrading many months later)? note: for the house makeover, i will be using spicy stew (counting on a +5 boost) and crystal saw whenever needed to make the necessary furniture. I am considering upgrading to obtain a greater magical cage, skeleton throne, 2 scrying pools, several baby red dragon guards, Tok-Xil guard in treasure room, [bleep]ey cage, steel plated doors, etc. Suggestions are welcome. \ if it helps, here's a layout of my house (orange rooms are dungeon rooms, the rest is ground floor). http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/User:Darth_Vohra Post away!