Obtaurian

Its a game. If you disrespect me in a game, call me a bot, call me all kinds of names because I didn't do EXACTLY what you wanted, then I am going to F with you. Let there be no doubt, that I can be the biggest ass in runescape. Its a matter of personal pride of course. Nothing you elistists can't understand... What differentiates you from us then? Most of the people you call "efficiency clowns" really don't care THAT much for efficiency. Moreover, what you have against us isn't the fact that we're "efficient" - if that's your actual annoyance, then that's pretty unfounded and unreasonable. If you think "efficiency" is a sin, I seriously wonder what you do in real life because almost all business is based off of efficency. What you have against us is that 1) we flame you and 2) we can act arrogant You do the same to us It's really pretty silly. I believe its more the "I'm efficient and need every breathing soul to know this" part that irritates most people.

a cesspool is just a very dirty place, drain, receptacle, etc. usually it's used in reference to morality, like "LA is California's cesspool". and lol Sam

[/hide] Let's say I'm level 60 dungeoneering. I DO NOT like raiding through a dungeon I DO NOT like killing boss monsters I DO NOT like finding keys, doing puzzle rooms, running through rooms of strong monsters of every different combat type I DO NOT like finding/working with teams I'm an idiot for not liking dungeoneering at level 60 even though all of the qualities of dungeoneering don't appeal to me? I agree. If the basic mechanics of a skill do not appeal to you, you have every right to not like it. If, however, you actually like all of those things, but decide that dungeoneering sucks after having only attained level 60, you're being unreasonable and should delve further into the skill so you can really get an idea of what it's like. EDIT: Oh, just thought of a better example. Going back to movies . . . - I don't like chick flicks. I don't need to watch a chick flick to know I don't like it. - I like horror movies. I shouldn't form an opinion of a horror movie before I've watched it. Does that make more sense? I hate K'ril for the same reasons, but I just used his slam attack as an example to illustrate my point. ;)

There's a difference between disliking how the skill works and disliking the skill despite having not tried it. I'll try to provide a metaphorical example of what I mean. - I dislike K'ril because of his slam attack. In other words, I dislike a basic mechanic of K'ril. - I dislike Graar because of the extraordinary amount of competition. I have a lot of experience at Graar, and I've formed my negative opinion based on my collective experiences. In the first case, I don't need a whole lot of experience to know that I don't like getting hit that high and having my prayer drained. In the second case, I've based my opinion off of my experiences, and it has nothing to do with Graar's mechanics. I can't think of a better example right now. It's a subtle difference, so my apologies if that doesn't make sense (fault would be with me on that one).

Please quote my post and bold the part where I was somehow able to force him to do something against his will. Good luck. You continue to ask him why he chops willows, after he's given you an answer, that it's part of his goal. Yet you keep on stating the same thing over and over again, saying chopping any log is the same, so why chop willow, which is implying you don't approve of OP's ways, and you can't understand why he's so "stupid". You don't have to actually say "I force you to stop chopping willow" to mean that, you're implying the OP is stupid because he doesn't play the same way as you. My problem with OP is that he gets angry when strangers ask him questions. That's unreasonable and childish. I could care less about what logs he chops. I don't understand it, but I don't care. My problem is his ranting about talking to strangers when he doesn't have to.

I actually lol'd at all of you misunderstanding what I posted. However, because this seems to be my fault for not being more clear, I'll attempt to clarify my stance: - IN DUNGEONEERING (notice that I said 'dungeoneering' and not 'runecrafting'), tactics and knowledge are gained through experience more than anything else. You can read up on theory and strategy all you want, but it won't help you if you don't try it and master it. - Because there's such a vast difference between the experience of a level 60 dungeoneer and a level 100 dungeoneer, forming an opinion of the skill at such a low level (60) is shortsighted and tantamount to, again, watching 30 seconds of a movie and declaring that its a bad movie. It's not like other skills -- you are not doing the same thing from 1 to 120. - Implying that dungeoneering is the same from 1 to 120 is implying that every level 60 dungeoneer could be given a completely maxed account, thrown onto a team, and be expected to perform just as well as a real 120 dungeoneer. Obviously this does not happen. For proof, look at the difference between 117 and 3BO. Surely world 117 teams would be just as good as 3BO teams if dungeoneering was exactly the same from level 1 to 120. The difference is experience (and I don't mean EXP). - No, there is not some magic level at which you become a pro dungeoneer. A few of you keep saying that and I can't imagine why. - Knowing basic skill mechanics does not make one experienced at dungeoneering. BOTTOM LINE: It is unreasonable to form a negative opinion of dungeoneering before you've really delved into the skill.

Uh no, you hardly learn anything from level 1-60. You learn basic skill mechanics, which is not tantamount to knowing how to dungeoneer. I know the rules of football, but that doesn't make me a pro football player. Dungeoneering is definitely not the same from 1-60, 60-99, or 99-120, and arguing to the contrary shows just how little you know about it.

Please quote my post and bold the part where I was somehow able to force him to do something against his will. Good luck.

As I've said, someone with level 60 dungeoneering has hardly scratched the surface of the skill. It's akin to watching the first 30 seconds of a movie and saying "yeah, didn't like one of the extras so [bleep] this movie."

Nope. They don't know anything about the skill at level 60. If you have no knowledge of something, you can't reasonably have an opinion about it. Please, both of you, stop making me state the obvious. Oh dear god, I'm so sorry about that. How can I forget that you're obviously correct in your opinions God forbid anyone actually go through large floors 25- and learn what the skill is all about!!!! When did I state that 60 grants one intrinsic knowledge of the skill? I didn't say that. Congratulations -- you can read! Just kidding. Come back when you feel like constructing an actual argument. It takes a lot of experience to become a pro dungeoneer. The skill does not end at an absurdly low level like most other skills, and it changes quite drastically the higher level you are. Mining is almost exactly the same from level 1 to 99. Construction is almost exactly the same from level 1 to 99. Oh dear god, I'm so sorry about that. How could I forget that you're obviously correc- lol, just kidding, you're wrong, as per usual. So anyone who's not a "pro-dungeoneer" can't have an opinion on the skill? Then you probably shouldn't be mentioning the skill at all, nor me. I never said it takes 60 dg to become pro, rofl, can you read? Also, Leyenda, it's at 120 obviously, that's when you can get 4 binds! Makes dungeons go super fast. Sorry to ask, but were you going to attempt to argue at some point in this conversation? I was under the impression that you wanted to, so I took the time to respond appropriately. I'd appreciate it if you did the same.

Nope. They don't know anything about the skill at level 60. If you have no knowledge of something, you can't reasonably have an opinion about it. Please, both of you, stop making me state the obvious. Oh dear god, I'm so sorry about that. How can I forget that you're obviously correct in your opinions and that once you hit level 60, you magically gain a whole new perspective on the whole skill! God forbid anyone actually go through large floors 25- and learn what the skill is all about!!!! When did I state that 60 grants one intrinsic knowledge of the skill? I didn't say that. Congratulations -- you can read! Just kidding. Come back when you feel like constructing an actual argument. It takes a lot of experience to become a pro dungeoneer. The skill does not end at an absurdly low level like most other skills, and it changes quite drastically the higher level you are. Mining is almost exactly the same from level 1 to 99. Construction is almost exactly the same from level 1 to 99. Oh dear god, I'm so sorry about that. How could I forget that you're obviously correc- lol, just kidding, you're wrong, as per usual.

Nope. They don't know anything about the skill at level 60. If you have no knowledge of something, you can't reasonably have an opinion about it. Please, both of you, stop making me state the obvious.

Probably the only thing you've ever said that I agree with, sadly. I really don't think they'll touch the binding system other than MAYBE adding further binds through quests or tokens. I would love for the bind system to be more intricate, though. I really like Grimy's idea in Suggestions. I also like the idea of tool binds, further ammo binds, etc. I feel a little OCD saying this, but it REALLY bothers me that we can never wear a full set of tier 11 armor (top, legs, boots, gloves, helm, weapon, shield).

Lol? Because at 60 you've hardly begun to scratch the surface of the skill, obviously. That's so obvious, in fact, that I feel the need to repeat that sentence for emphasis. Because at 60 you've hardly begun to scratch the surface of the skill, obviously.

If it has 100% chance of hitting, then armour doesn't change the hits at all, unless otherwise stated As far as I'm aware, its accuracy depends on your opponent's magic defense. So it's not 100% accurate per se, it's just 100% accurate against most opponents (most people are expecting melee damage in a melee-based fight).

Yeah, I don't get it either. All logs were made equal, so cutting willows is no different from cutting magics, maples, etc (sans speed). That's my problem with skilling -- the fastest method and the slowest method are usually performed the same way, so why choose the slowest method? It's not going to be fun either way, but at least cutting ivy/teaks or burning magics over maples is much faster. I'd much rather get the skilling out of the way as quickly as possible so I can go back to the actual fun stuff (slayer, MHing, dungeoneering). Why does a better xp/hour rate does make something more fun? I agree with the OP it is more fun to collect 10k of each log then to grind for xp It doesn't. That's the point. You're doing the same exact thing in either case, but doing what begets more exp/h gets it done faster.

We are there already. Blame dungeoneeering for this. Its really brought the worst part of WOW to rs. (the freakin balogna community) Just read the "pro" thread and join their l2dung clan. Sadly, its not just rushers who are assclowns. I joined a non-rush group this weekend and was scolded for wasting the prom ore to make a plate over a chain. It was truely laughable because their were a ton of untouched rocks. Needless to say I alched every damn ore & chain they threw on the home floor before they could boot me. The only good news is that the elistists are trying to break off. Maybe they can start up their own clown site. :idea: Another brilliant post by Golvellius. :thumbup: PREACH BROTHER!

Yeah, I don't get it either. All logs were made equal, so cutting willows is no different from cutting magics, maples, etc (sans speed). That's my problem with skilling -- the fastest method and the slowest method are usually performed the same way, so why choose the slowest method? It's not going to be fun either way, but at least cutting ivy/teaks or burning magics over maples is much faster. I'd much rather get the skilling out of the way as quickly as possible so I can go back to the actual fun stuff (slayer, MHing, dungeoneering).

At 60 you haven't hit the grindfest/fastest method of leveling. /intrinsic misunderstanding of dungeoneering. And what Green said. Sure, you CAN have an opinion of dungeoneering at only level 60, technically, but that makes you an idiot. No one likes idiots.

Lunar Isle spirit tree patch :pray:

I know how I'm raising construction then. :thumbup:

That's incorrect. There are now many possibilities for bind combinations, due in no small part to the surgebox and complete arsenal of tier 11 weapons/armor (the latter is obvious, of course).

Though I've known about the existence of them, I've never actually seen one till now. Adding blue-faced greegree to my list of Runescape goals.

I approve of this bump. :thumbup: It would seem that there all sorts of bind combos available to pro DGers nowadays, whereas it used to be pretty set in stone (SSH and prom 2h/primal baxe).

Cesspool is a great word tbh.