amitoz

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price? 1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation. The ge updates automatically based on how many of the item are bought at over/under regular price and by how much. There's not enough price varience to derive supply and demand, especially for the thousands of items that'd have to be changed daily. If it's automated, then: 1) I've been lied to - Jagex said they hired more staff for this... guess not? 2) That makes manipulation that much easier 1. I doubt you were lied to, you probably just misunderstood. They might have hired more staff to help develop the system and formulas, but I can guarantee you that it would be a terrible business decision to hire people to derive something that can be discovered automatically. 2.Yes it does, but it also makes merching in general easier too which can both help and hurt the rs population. I clearly remember something along the paraphrased lines of "Don't worry, we have a seperate team to handle the GE, so updates will still come out regularly"... How can that be misinterpreted?

Why not?

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price? 1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation. The ge updates automatically based on how many of the item are bought at over/under regular price and by how much. There's not enough price varience to derive supply and demand, especially for the thousands of items that'd have to be changed daily. If it's automated, then: 1) I've been lied to - Jagex said they hired more staff for this... guess not? 2) That makes manipulation that much easier

It does add longevity to the life of RS. Many people discuss, talk, ponder, and strategically plan their skills all on Tip.it, amongst other fan-sites. If these weren't here, people would be no where near as excited for content. The sense of community itself is a force enough to drive it's intellectual peoples' minds to work and to plan, and get excited over things that are out and about. People like the people on these forums do make a difference.

Removing the GE completely would be a mistake, I mentioned it only to considering hypothetically why manipulation is an issue. How about if the GE just updated more often in price? 1 person at the Jagex staff that may or may not know a lot about the game's economy is changing prices on a specific amount of items per 23-24 hours, based on some formulae I assume, about supply and demand of said items. That will never compare to an open market. And, if the margins are increased more, even more manipulation is imminent, as well as the risk of cash transferring from account to account. Lose-lose situation.

That's exactly what I think. It's worrying how I know in a year my 250m will be worth only half the Sara Brews (or whatever other item in demand) I could have bought. Also I didn't think of it that way; how people now spend much less time buying and selling. Thanks for the insight!

This, in my opinion, is another Treaty of Versailles; worst of both worlds. Botters have decreased punishment and more incentive to push their luck, and regular players are now scared of powertraining and the sort. Shameful move on Jagex's part. I wouldn't care if they did it for money, but when regular players such as myself with higher stats start worrying, something is wrong.

I've seen you post on countless threads around this forum. You're always hot-headed at best, a hypocritical flamer usually. I'd appreciate you stop trolling, do something else in your vast expanse of free time. Thanks, I'd really appreciate it. :)

I agree with radical changes to the GE but I think you're overexaggerating the problem a bit. Price manipulation was many, many, many times less common before the GE because trades were made in w2 fally, RSOF, clan forums, resource harvesting spots, etc while prices were heavily influenced by forum "price check" threads; even if buyers were constantly buying at all the popular spots, you could always find someone ignorant about a new price trend and it wouldn't matter to them to buy/sell for a "normal" price. Prices only changed due to natural trends or game updates. Now only a few items are traded at w2 GE/RSOF and the vast majority of normal items are swapped on the GE where you have a limited flow. I don't see how manipulation would still be prevalent if the GE was revamped to be more flexible in changing prices (or removed entirely). If the GE were to be removed, RS would be up in flames, and up in arms. I legitimately think that all the recent players that have started playing RS Post-GE would be mortified, and they compose RS's Majority of active players. If the GE were to be removed, so many problems would be solved, such as merch clans abusing unsuspecting newbs, and price manipulation. Alas, it is not meant to be.

Skills over 50 that actually matter. nothing actualy matters why do you need 99 smithing? you dont... to make rune plates... id rather save all th effort of getting 99 smith when people sell it cooking.... buy the food everything is buyable nothing is needed in rs its just a set goal for people to acheive same in ftp you dont need 99 cooking in ftp like you dont need higher crafting than 90 in p2p but you they still do it for the same reasons of ability to do it Yes, but I'm just saying, the level caps in F2P are much quicker to come than P2p; thus making excess capital useless that much quicker.

Manipulation doesn't cause inflation, but it amplifies it, and the item rises in price much more quickly.

People like you are what upset the balance. We need wither untradeable armor that is extremely hard to obtain, or degradable armour capable of recharge that is rare; or Common, powerful armour that is unrepairable and degradable. Making more Bandos set-alikes is just arrogance at it's finest at this point. are you accusing squisher of creating the bandos armor set? be reasonable - players act rationally in response to the stimuli (updates) applied to them by Jagex. I was referring to the new "get rich quick merchanting" style people are so up in arms over these days. Manipulation of prices only makes inflation, and the exponential growth off items more dramatic and defined, and quickly decays the item's economic shelf life. That's what I was referring to.

It has its uses in PvP clan fights where dungeoneering items are impractical to lose when you'll die 3+ times in a single run-in. Or if you make money faster than you earn tokens in f2p. But you're right that for you specifically, it has no use. Yes, corrupt has a very specific role in the F2p society, and is very situational, as you mentioned.

So do you think there is a deflation in the near future? I would assume so from your post prior. if i were to predict based on how the economy has been behaving, yes. but that prediction is pretty useless since i have no substantive background in economics, nor do i claim to be able to predict any changes in actual gameplay that would cause inflation. the main reason behind this deflation is most likely the fact that more people have access to good levels/gear now. average killrate for monsters has increased significantly - thereby increasing the supply of almost everything. also, wrt your point on degrade costs: the more pro players (i.e. those who both DG a lot and will use their chaotic weapons often) have the option of paying with tokens. i actually do this because i dungeoneer for fun, i already have all the chaotics i want, and the ~20K tokens i get an hour is nice cause i don't have to dish out 1.8M every time i pay for your chaotic. That's true, but well over half the populus pays with cash, for it is the most unexclsuive currency, simply put.

People like you are what upset the balance. We need wither untradeable armor that is extremely hard to obtain, or degradable armour capable of recharge that is rare; or Common, powerful armour that is unrepairable and degradable. Making more Bandos set-alikes is just arrogance at it's finest at this point.

So do you think there is a deflation in the near future? I would assume so from your post prior.

I consider your OP a rather short post. Discussion of the inflation in RuneScape on a much wider scale is possible, thus would probably result a more complicated(and a longer) viewpoint. Were you there? You must be really old :o Or did you mean "people who actually listened in the history class" when you said "older people"? :P Anyway, obviously it is something Jagex has been working on for a long time, is working on, and probably will keep working on. I don't believe it will be fixed 100%, but it surely helps. I concur with all above critical points. And yes, sleep is not for History class! :D

I suppose, but that's not a very broad market affecting every player in F2p now is it, apart from the inflation caused by rares. the demand exists whether or not the player has the gp to purchase the item. also rares do not cause inflation. they are simply more reactive to changes in price levels than other items, such as yew logs. Rares cause inflation; more so than any other item. Their demand determines their price, they have no value otherwise. Please refrain from arguing this point any further. Yes, as stated before and with my concurence, I myself think that there is no real incentive to obtain wealth over 5m in F2p.

That's what I'm thinking, and it makes me excited. :) I wouldn't say that the reason dungeoneering has caused deflation was the chaotics (seeing as they came out the day the skill was released), but the skill itself. To hazard a guestimate, I would say the runescape Production Possibility Curve has been reduced by 20% simply because all the time spent in daemonheim is "wasted" when it comes to the rest of Gielinor's economic system. Couple this with a few recent and minor updates such as frost dragons reducing the cost of prayer, korasi's sword reducing the demand for D scim, ss, and z spear and now with the dragon defender.... You can see where this is going. But yes, I agree that this is a good thing for RuneScape, if the previous trend would've continued, it would be impossible to get ahead of long-time players. This point of being afixiated on the skill makes sense. I will add it to my original post with credit to you now. Thanks for the input.

Skills over 50 that actually matter.

decreased demand for lower end equipment is still a deflationary force, and your explanation doesn't explain the fall in the prices of potions, herbs, bones, fish, and other commodities. which is not to say that the release of chaotics is the sole contributing factor. other factors like the release of frost dragons & herb resource dungeon, increased botting all contribute. however it is safe to say that runescape is experiencing mild deflation. Mild deflation... Interesting terminology. :P But yes, it seems to me as if RS is in a slow decline (market-wise), unless someone proves otherwise.

The money generated in about 3-4 days was about the money climbers put into RS. Not many people had a stock of over 100 boots. Think realistically. Yes, some people had Tens of Thousands, but the average player, if all players are to be taken into account, had an extra 200k in his bank. Measly. PvP Statuettes were another Munich Crisis (Epic WWII Reference that only older people will get) from Jagex, catering to the players of utmost oppression, once again, and a big economic fail on their part.

That's what I'm thinking, and it makes me excited. :)

I suppose, but that's not a very broad market affecting every player in F2p now is it, apart from the inflation caused by rares.

Many times over the years, there has been an excess of money in RuneScape. Obviously, the money a player creates over his lifetime is a summation of everything he has done in the game, and the majority of said player's wealth drives the economy, amongst other things. This excess amount of money in the game causes inflation. Inflation is the price of every object in the game, desired even minutely, going up. Why? because people can afford to pay more for it, and competitors are more willing to pay more for it. This is not a problem in the real world, for inflation offsetting wage increases are given to workers (about 3% over 5 years). This is a problem in RS. The amount of capital a noob makes is much less than that of a seasoned player such as I, and I have a huge capital gain advantage over him, meaning that I can make more money with less effort and less time, while he has to bust his ass to get 200k an hour. With this measly money, he can't afford the stuff I'm willing to pay 400k-500k more for, just for convenience. Now, over the years, Jagex has tried to remove this excess of cash flow from the game. Not just runes with new spells, or items made from herblore, but physical wealth generated by players; cold, hard, money. The crystal weapons back in the day were a minor offset... Then came construction... which was semi successful.. And now we have the Dawn of the Gravite and Chaotic weaponary. Will this change the ever increasing Inflation problem of RS from the game, or at least slow it down? Discuss. Some thoughts by other posters with interesting viewpoints: ^ -'Unknwnwrrior'