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I don't rush them so I can kill them. That's a secondary goal. What needs reworking to become fair is that it needs to be easier to avoid an ancient attacking you in the first place.

:blink. Jagex adds something with new content that should be totally unrelated to what you are doing, and you quit?

And i've pulled off my thievery once or twice. But I still die if i rush an ancient.

Until you realize that you can't thieve during combat, of course.

Also, if you have decent strength (90+), you can constanty throw heavy shots upstairs, since you can just rest off the energy usage. Diddn't take very long to a get enough tokens for a rune defender that way, like an 1 hour in total. The main problem here is how badly the guilds have been neglected, and how limited their usage is. There are only a few guilds that can stand up to their name (namely the fishing guild, which I think is more effective at training cooking than the cooking guild (based purely on the resources the guild itself provides)) It would also be pretty awesome if there was a guild above that of legends, like a grandmaster guild. Dragon kiteshield much? Or how about dragon warhammer and shortsword? There should definetly be a guild for higher level questers. Of course, the requisite would involve grandmaster quests. And maybe it would have something useful!

No need to tell me, but I actually don't.

A self player?

What was the first use?

Oh god...... it's the truth!

The point about just playing a game still stands. Undoubtedly, he is behaving idiotically for thinking he'd be more efficiently doing things, but honestly - why are we even playing the game in the first place? For all you know, the mentioned person could be quite intelligent, but just wiped out after a hard day at school/work/whatever or he just feels like randomly playing the game/just playing the game for fun, not to attain a high level of efficiency. He might understand the principle of "opportunity cost" as you put it, but just feels too tired to think about such things. As far as it being an intelligent choice, I've picked up that green dragons are less dangerous than armadyl

Posting on these forums will never make Jagex admit anything to you. Curses take a lot of work to get...... Way more than ancient magics.

that's what I was thinking XD well most of the competition in chaos tunnels come from bots and they don't really fall into the DIY category, more like the 'cheating A-holes' category Lol. I have a deep hatred of bots, especially considering my DIYness comes from an excessively strict honor system. Are you a DIY?

Someone brought up dungeoneering and it's an interesting debate. As for DT, the most worthwhile reward for it was the magic xp. The only ancient spell where it's advantages are worth the extra runes is its home teleport. That is a point, about how it incorporates other skills into itself. One of the few logical "dungeoneering is a minigame" arguments.

There is no value in most guilds! The crafting guilds value is that it combines all resources necessary to craft, but that's insignificant. All other guilds just have a bunch of stuff to do there that can be found elsewhere (I hate the questing guilds-what do they offer?), the only guild that has something besides just more of what it's about is the warrior's guild-for its defenders. The ranging guild does have a nice supply of broken arrows.

1. I'm sorry but your logic train has derailed. No matter who says it, even the makers of the game, if the facts disprove their statement, they are wrong. 2. What would he post lol? "OMFG YOUR SUGGESTION TO USE MAGIC DOESNT WORK CAUSE I AM TEH POORS" 3. Everything sucks without top equipment LOL (except maybe melee) I can tell the OP whatever I want because when I was a nub like him I thought the same thing about ancients. Then I figured out that if I get ancients I will pwn too! Kind of like how if your combat increases then you gain more FOG tokens in less time? All SKILLS have a REAL FUNCTION BASED ON YOUR LEVEL INGAME. Dung however, does not. Excepting the fact that it is possible to train combat outside of FoG, yes. Once again, the rewards are a real function-they require specific levels to get.

I lol'd irl. For the last time, 'lols' mean nothing. You cant just laugh at someone in the middle of a debate insisting that they are wrong and expect to win the argument. All it does it make you look like a self-righteous [wagon]. Exhibiting the need to attack others to prove a point is a blatant sign of weakness. Hmmm. When I "lol" it means that I enjoyed reading a post and thought it was intelligent and decently satirical, not stupid and wrong.

I lol'd irl. For the last time, 'lols' mean nothing. You cant just laugh at someone in the middle of a debate insisting that they are wrong and expect to win the argument. All it does it make you look like a self-righteous [wagon]. Exhibiting the need to attack others to prove a point is a blatant sign of weakness. Hmmm. When I "lol" it means that I enjoyed reading a post and thought it was intelligent and decently satirical, not stupid and wrong.

Well it is wasting your weeks of TOG because leveling this "Skill" has no affect on gameplay in the slightest. And your first statement doesn't make sense. I'm level 60-65 in both ranged and magic. It does have an effect on gameplay, just not a significant one. Really, since having a high dung level without tokens is useless since you need tokens to buy things and you need more tokens than the 10:1 ratio gives you in xp making levels useless since at the "level" you "unlock" stuff you don't have enough tokens to buy that item. 65. Wow. It is useless, but it is definetly a skill. A skill is nothing but a specific type of game mechanic, and dungeoneering fulfills the criteria. Huh? No skills have levels at which you unlock something and you can obtain that something and use it whenever you want, either by buying it, making it out of bought materials, or being a static influence on gameplay. Dungeoneering does none of these things and instead acts as a minigame. In minigames you achieve tokens or some other minigame specific currency. When you obtain enough tokens you buy an item you want. If you want more of that item you have to play the minigame more to build up more currency. Did I describe Dungeoneering perfectly? On Topic: This thread is pretty much closed. The OP is ranting because he/she can't afford to be an effective ancient mage. Well it is wasting your weeks of TOG because leveling this "Skill" has no affect on gameplay in the slightest. And your first statement doesn't make sense. I'm level 60-65 in both ranged and magic. It does have an effect on gameplay, just not a significant one. Really, since having a high dung level without tokens is useless since you need tokens to buy things and you need more tokens than the 10:1 ratio gives you in xp making levels useless since at the "level" you "unlock" stuff you don't have enough tokens to buy that item. 65. Wow. It is useless, but it is definetly a skill. A skill is nothing but a specific type of game mechanic, and dungeoneering fulfills the criteria. Huh? No skills have levels at which you unlock something and you can obtain that something and use it whenever you want, either by buying it, making it out of bought materials, or being a static influence on gameplay. Dungeoneering does none of these things and instead acts as a minigame. In minigames you achieve tokens or some other minigame specific currency. When you obtain enough tokens you buy an item you want. If you want more of that item you have to play the minigame more to build up more currency. Did I describe Dungeoneering perfectly? On Topic: This thread is pretty much closed. The OP is ranting because he/she can't afford to be an effective ancient mage. Correction: 1. Dungeoneering is a skill because it was released as a skill. An experiment to break the (rather boring tbh) player upheld definition of a skill to allow for further innovation in the future. 2. You can't declare when a thread is closed, only the OP can do that. Superiority complex? 3. The OP is not ranting about not being able to afford the usage of ancient magic (yet another belittling assumption), the rant is about being annoyed at how ancient mages have a distinct upper hand in minigames. We answered that it was best to level up and counter them with range, then you came in and started boasting that simply due to the possibility of magic easily defeating anything with the right gear/circumstance that it is automatically superior to everything else; which doesn't contribute anything to the premise of this thread at all. 1. Then we should make FOG, CW, SC, and others a skill. OK. EDIT: Just because someone says something doesn't make it so. If I call a cat a dog does that make it so? No. The same applies for Jagex. Cats and dogs are classified by certain characteristics, and that is how Dungeoneering is aswell. 2. L? When the OP doesn't post and the posts go OT so much, a thread is pretty much closed. 3. It does because if you are ranting about how ancients own you, go get ancients. Unlike melee, magic doesn't raise your combat level so leveling it has no undesirable affects. Magic is also just as good, if not better than melee ( I haven't really been able to test this) in Dungeoneering, which is a minigame. The actual definition of a skill is a game mechanic in which you become better as it as you use the skill, allowing access to more usage. Dungeoneering can only really be used in daemonheim, but you gain more potential there as your level increases. As your level increases, you can get more tokens in less time.

Well it is wasting your weeks of TOG because leveling this "Skill" has no affect on gameplay in the slightest. And your first statement doesn't make sense. I'm level 60-65 in both ranged and magic. It does have an effect on gameplay, just not a significant one. Really, since having a high dung level without tokens is useless since you need tokens to buy things and you need more tokens than the 10:1 ratio gives you in xp making levels useless since at the "level" you "unlock" stuff you don't have enough tokens to buy that item. 65. Wow. It is useless, but it is definetly a skill. A skill is nothing but a specific type of game mechanic, and dungeoneering fulfills the criteria. Huh?

Well it is wasting your weeks of TOG because leveling this "Skill" has no affect on gameplay in the slightest. And your first statement doesn't make sense. I'm level 60-65 in both ranged and magic. It does have an effect on gameplay, just not a significant one.

Lmfao. You fail insanely. Range is FAR WORSE when it comes to fighting mages. Especially in places like clan wars or fight pits where people with skill go. Calling Dungeoneering a skill is a joke. Stop attacking other posters with little to back up your opinion. You said nothing to justify range is worse than melee against mages even when it is a ridiculous claim. if you hate dungeoneering as a skill so much, why don't fully concept something better instead of spreading hate. There is tons of evidence to back up the fact that dungeoneering is not a skill and I have repeated it so many times to people I wonder how Jagex has brainwashed them. Ridiculous claim? Lmfao. Come to dual arena with range and I will wreck you so hard with magic you will cry irl. WIth 99 range I know what it can do, and it can't do much. I generally think that common knowledge need not be posted when I talk, but I was wrong because some people believe Jamflex when they say stuff like "Dungeoneering is a skill" and "Range defeats Magic" Relying on what Jagex states is one of the worst things you can ever do. Just ask the KB and how many wrong entries have been placed on it. Range hasn't gotten weapons that can overpower high level ancients (due to their effects). Dungeoneering is a skill. Otherwise it wouldn't be wasting my weeks of tears of guthix.

examples? Bronze knives and bronze arrows were more expensive in the GE. You could go to shops and buy unlimited for slightly cheaper. I'm just trying to comprehend how rich I'd be right now if I invested all my gp in bronze knives.. I don't pick up my arrows so bronze is ideal. 1 iron arrow costs the same as 3 bronze arrows. I'll take the bronze. It's not an example, but my plan to get rich levying lockpicks from thwait to the ge was ruined by limited shop stock.

Clearly someone hasnt done WGS, Nomads, Blood runs deep, New prayer quest, etc. A lot of the new stuff DOES bring a deep story and an exciting adventure to this game. Now just like then there is always some childish quests, or just plain ridiculous ones but aside from them i think Jagex still does produce quality quests I haven't done those quests and i still think some quests are deep story and exciting (mourning's ends 2 was one of my favorites). The childish quests aren't that bad.

Looking at it from a logical perspective, he's probably better off with armadyl. DIY is usually illogical, but it's fun.

Its also probably a good idea to save up tokens for battle robe pieces (specifically the robe-bottom, which costs 1000 tokens), the price has gone up 666% in half a year. Thats because the street price is like 15mil due to the sheer money-saving power of a full-set combined with a staff of light (plus with the update to recharge costs, real easy to fix up when they degrade). rotflol. 666%. It seems like long time to lots of money vs. short time with quicker money to me.